zzznalg

I'm disappointed in the powertrain. I've owned my RDX since November 2006 and have driven over 11,000 miles so far. Over all, the RDX is worthy of its praise, it's solid, handles well, is safe, reliable, comfortable etc. etc. I am not minimizing its attributes. Maybe the problem is me. It's pretty much my first automatic vehicle ever -in almost 30 years. That, coupled with the turbo-4 and ..... I feel that I am usually playing the "wait for power" game. Between the turbo's lag -yes it really exists- and the transmission's being in too high a gear 25-50% of the time, I find myself cussing this powertrain ---in an otherwise very good vehicle. I press the pedal 3/4 and... nothing. I am still in second gear at 5-10 MPH waiting for the power which doesn't appear. Where is first!!? Wait.... Throw it into S-Manual mode. Nice try. Paddle shifters sound like a good idea but are limited in practice. To shift from 5th to 2nd for example requires three depresses on the left shift paddle at slow intervals. If the paddle is popped three times in rapid succession, nothing happens! The system responds slowely. And, there is no way to know definitively what gear one is in without checking the dashboard readout. To add final frustration, it is difficult to shift in mid-corner because one never can be instantly sure where the shift paddles may be found within the 360 degree span of the steering wheel's range. Manual mode is a marketer's dream or, an auto driver's novelty. It IS NOT a replacement for a manual transmission. This, on top of the turbo's lag and the auto box's upshift happy tendency in either "D" or "S" modes, leads to a very frustrating driving experience for the seasoned manual transmission driver. This is such a shame because the RDX is otherwise such a fine and high-powered performance vehicle. Count me as 'starting to look for my next vehicle". Too bad. With one of Honda/Acura's fine manuals, this would pretty much all be moot.

catnippants

Well I don't find it quite that bad, but I do agree that I would 100% prefer a straight manual. The paddle shifters are a joke. Frankly I don't get all this push to put 'auto sticks' in cars these days. Most of the benefit of a manual is in being able to modulate the clutch - not just in being able to change gears at will. Even with the auto sticks, you're not really changing the gears in real time. It's more like you're notifying the car that you want to shift - and asking it to do it when it gets a chance. It's never instantaneous like with a real manual. I NEVER use S....it's just too stupid for me.

Mike

zzznalg

I agree completely. Good point about auto sticks and the lack of clutch modulation.

dennarda

I have found it a little hard to force the RDX tranny down a few gears while cornering as well. I read somewhere that when cornering, the RDX holds the current gear longer than usual in order to not disrupt the current torque levels. I would imagine this is so that you do not all of the sudden loose push from the outside rear wheel which could cause unpredictable handling. While I understand the purpose of this gear holding for upshifting in a corner, I do not quite get the reason for hesitating to downshift in a corner.

1092

So, with no manual option on this Turbo 4, and no V6, your buyer's remorse seems well-founded. Hoping Acura is listening/reading.

darth62

I'll dissent. I have a TSX with "speedstick." I would prefer a manual, on a lot of different levels. But, I live in Los Angeles and I'm constantly in the worst situation for a manual - stuck in traffic going up hills. So, I opted for the automatic. But, I frequently use the speedstick to downshift while merging into traffic and I use it to downshift for engine breaking, or to exert a bit more control over the tranny when climbing mountains.

Not nearly as much control as a manual, of course, but still useful.

catnippants

You could always do that with auto transmissions before. It's just that you needed to physically move the automatic gearshift lever to a lower gear. All they've done here is make that a 'switch' - either with paddles or momentarily pulling or pushing on the stick. Technically, it's the same thing. The paddles or auto stick are just a gimmick to make shifting a little easier. I suspect it has come from the vast majority of the public that either doesn't know how to drive a manual (and doesn't want to learn), or does a lot of driving in traffic - but they still want to pretend that they have a real stick. I just think comparing it to a manual is silly.

Still, my opinion...

Mike

darth62

It isn't a substitute for the manual at all - I think we both agree completely on that point. It doens't give you nearly that level of control. With a manual, I always know what gear I'm in and the shifts occur at the exact moment I want. With the speedstick, I can accomplish relatively quick shifts up or down, but I don't have nearly that intuitive sense of what gear the car is in and when it is shifting.

But, I still think the speedshift in my TSX is far more than a gimmick. It is much easy to control shifts than it was in my former vehicles. It comes in useful in all sort of situations.

catnippants

Ok...that's fair. Like I said, it does make downshifting easier, so I can see your point. For me though, it's definitely not a selling point for the car.

Mike

terdonal

Yikes, didn't this vehicle have an automatic transmission when you bought it?
A seasoned manual transmission driver should be able to adapt quite easily and probably better than a person who has only ever driven auto transmissions.

I have well over a million miles under my belt and probably at least 650,000 miles with manual transmissions. The last two being the RSX typeS and the TSX 6mt.

I love manual transmissions but they do tend to suck in bumper to bumper trafffic. I myself have no problems with the paddle shifters, use them a lot. Of course they are not as flexible as a manual but I knew it wouldn't be and learned how to adjust for it.

I have never had a turbo before but I am not too disapointed in the slight lag before it kicks in and drive accordingly. It picks up quite quickly and has never left me in a bad spot as a result of the minimal lag. Not much different than high rpm engines that need to get higher in the rev range before the power kicks in. Most test reports I have seen indicate the turbo lag is quite minimal but what do I know.

Now the one thing I agree with is timing the paddle shifters when wanting to step down a few but not sure why I would bother trying to go from 5th to 2nd with the shifters as it is much faster to push the throttle if you are looking for acceleration or use the brakes if you are decelerating and if necessary use the paddle shifters as well. We all know they won't shift on 3 quick flicks of the paddle but I have learned how to adapt and time it quite easily myself.

I do notice sometimes it will upshift under a lighter throttle when I don't want it to but a flick brings it back down again and quite quickly imo. Maybe in sport mode that wouldn't happen but don't use that too much. I also have no problem knowing where the paddles are, they are right under my fingers with both hands on the wheel and at least I don't have to take my hands off the wheel if I want to upshift or downshift.

When I test drive a vehicle these are the things I look for and I know what to expect if I get the vehicle. One of the reasons I never got an RL, because as nice a vehicle as it is it just didn't work for me when I test drove it a few times. I sometimes wonder what people do when they take a test drive.

flar

One of the top benefits of a manual transmission for me is to avoid mid-corner downshifts. When I approach the apex and need to start feeding power I need to have control over power delivery immediately, not "after a fashion" when the transmission is done waking up.

I'm also much faster shifting gears in a manual - clutch and all - than waiting for the paddles to work, especially if there is more than one gear change involved.

I've tried using the S-manual mode a few times and the shifts take far too long for decent cornering. For occasional passing downshifts or when the driving requirements are less busy they are pretty reasonable, but not if you have a lot going on with a twisty road and need to factor in the paddle shifting delay on top of it. If the engine was less peaky then they might be adequate. In my S4 I might drive for a couple of miles on a twisty road without shifting as the engine had a really flat torque curve so shifting was only really required when your speed changed significantly (like coming up to an occasional straightaway and then reentering the twisties). With the RDX the engine needs shifting more often and during a twisty section which exacerbates the clunkiness of the paddle shifters.

I live in San Francisco and so stop and go traffic on steep hills is a common occurrence. I lived with it for 4 years with a 6-speed manual and it wasn't that hard. I got really good at starting up with no roll-back though - better than I can manage with the automatic if you can imagine. (Yes, indeed you can start up on the steepest hill with absolutely zero roll-back if you know how to slip the clutch properly.) And at 140k miles (the last 40k of which was "life in the city") my original clutch was still going strong.

(Side note: An interesting thing about the 6-speed manual - the car only ever saw 5th gear as many times as I can count on one hand in its 140k life. And 4th gear was only used 3 or 4 times a year. With as much torque as the car had, my typical shift pattern was 1st, 2nd, (3rd only about 30% of the time) then 6th until I stopped again. Third was used a lot more in the twisties and I might have brief bursts of 4th gear use on some twisty roads, but 5th was just a waste of a gear except for the couple of times I tried it to see if its engine braking might help on downhills...)

zzznalg

"Yikes, didn't this vehicle have an automatic transmission when you bought it?"
and...
"A seasoned manual transmission driver should be able to adapt quite easily and probably better than a person who has only ever driven auto transmissions."

Jeez you gotta love some comments...

Typical test drives are notoriously inadequate to judge a vehicle as few dealers are willing to let a new car out of their hands for a sufficient period of time. Moreover, test drive conditions can impact vehicle performance. Case in point, engine performance at 40 degrees F may not translate into engine performance at 80+ degrees F (the increased temperature sapps engine power).

Then, the assertion that dyed in the wool manual drivers ought to be better able to adjust to autos is absurd. That's like saying connoisseurs of fine wines ought to be better able to adjust to boxed wine. Manual drivers drive manuals because we prefer them -often with strong convictions. We don't want to put up with the vagaries and sometimes worse of automatics. The frustration of many manual drivers is that our choices are steadily disappearing. So, these days we are often forced to buy vehicles like the RDX. It's tempting if they can do so many other things so well. If reliability, safety, AWD, cargo capacity, comfort, performance and handling are imperatives there are not many choices in manuals. In my personal case, I'm frustrated as I do not find the transmission and the engine to be a very good match in many circumstances.

Finally,
"I also have no problem knowing where the paddles are, they are right under my fingers with both hands on the wheel"...

I guess you don't have corners?

terdonal

Well let's put it this way, a person who has never driven a standard and that is getting to be the greater number of drivers nowadays have no idea other than to let the car do the shifting for them. I don't think that is too much of a stretch to understand.
Those who have a lot of experience with manual transmissions are the ones most likely to manually shift their auto tranny, seems pretty reasonable logic to me.

With regards to manual drivers I think I made my point quite clearly that I have done many miles in manual drivers and actually prefer it. Yes I agree the choice of manual transmissions are going down but that is fact of life but I sure wouldn't let myself be forced into buying something that I didn't want, manual or automatic.

Sorry about the test drive comments but when I test drive any vehicle I ensure I get adequate time and test drive over the same conditions and roads that I am used to driving on and it gives me personally a very good idea as to how any vehicle will be for me.

Of course I go around corners and curves too but when going into a corner you shift down before you go in not when you are in it, manual or automatic, if you want to have the best control. Therefore it is irrelevant where my fingers are.

Most curves are not sharp enough to have to be moving the steering wheel so drastically that the fingers are away from the paddles and even if they are I have shifted down to the gear I want as I enter thus having the power on tap to exit with the power I want.

Such as tonight coming come home a gentleman decides to run up my butt as I am approaching one of my two favourite curves so I downshift as I approach from 5th down thru to 2nd as I am entering the curve and I am 10 car lengths ahead of him in no time. This is a sharp curve, almost a corner, going to right then straight for a half a mile and then the same type of curve going left. He had hammered it down the straight to catch up, while I was doing around the speed limit. The same shifting process for me in the next curve staying on my side of the road while he goes around the curve in the oncoming traffic lane and is still at least 7 car lengths behind me when he exits.

Yes I agree a manual transmission would be preferred for ultimate handling and control but as far as I am concerned this vehicle has been well designed and thought out and handles like a hot damn. Thus I find your first post coming on here and blasting the handling and power seemingly very strange to me.

catnippants

Here, here!!!! YES! The ONLY thing that made me choose the RDX over the TL was the AWD. I wanted a manual that bad - and I really wish they offered one for this thing. I've owned manuals all my life, and my first auto was the F150 Supercrew I got rid of when I bought the RDX. The auto in that thing was horrible. I was ALWAYS on the brakes because it was always in overdrive (thus no engine braking). I can't stand the fact that you take your foot off the brake on an auto and it goes by itself. I want to control my car, MY way.

Mike

mickie

Wow, yea, you are right about the LAG and right about the steering wheel mounted gear shifters. I feel the same way about all of that. But you have to argue this is a CUV, not a sports car, but a "sportscar wannabe." If you're in the market for a suv/cuv then your in a market for a big lumbering vehicle. If you want fun, well, then this does handle better then some cars. If you want to go from a start (burn rubber) then this is not the right choice, go for a v6. Fact is, in it's lux class, I don't think I'm gonna sway from the person who wanted all of that, but had to settle a bit, made a primo choice. If they had a V6, I'd still be all over it. I already did the home work, and I know it's weaknesses. I'm still happy though.

BTW....I didn't read any other comments, before I wrote this, not to sway my true opinion.

737 Jock

The RDX is my wife's car and like many women she appreciates a granny tranny. She loves the car.

While I enjoy driving it, I would not consider an RDX for myself without a "snickety" Honda manual.

Acura is supposedly targeting the X-3 which has a manual standard. Perhaps they will reexamine the target demographic (30 something professional "A type") and provide a real transmission in the future.

catnippants

I see your point Mickie, but I don't want a manual because I want a sports car. I just feel more in control of my car with a manual. Manuals don't roll by themselves, lurch forward when going into gear, wear out breaks unnaturally fast, etc. For me it's about control, big or small, not speed or off the line performance.

Mike

Pacer

>The frustration of many manual drivers is that our choices are steadily disappearing.

Agree 100%. It's a tough go for us these days. America is dumbing down all around and cars are no exception. The RDX is my first real auto since I drove the family wagon for a while when I was 16 (which was a blast doing donuts in the snow, btw). And I came from owning one of the very few Honda Elements that was a 5MT. Luckily I do have an S2000 to take out my MT fantasies on. So I am definitely a dyed-in-the-wool manual fan. All that said, at about 1500k, I don't have enough miles on my RDX to feel like I can honestly comment on the tranny/engine match.

The way the RDX performs, it would not surprise me if they gave it a 6 option next year perhaps in an S version. It would be cool to see a turbo diesel as well. Honda is rumored to be toying with the TD thing.

But zz, I know this doesn't help your situation too much unless you think you can hang loose for another six months or so. I would be real surprised if there isn't a manual option in '08. If you can't hang on, I think the Audi and Subaru lineups would closely compare in performance and price to the RDX while giving you that MT buzz. Good luck whatever you decide.

davidndenver

I have driven both manual and auto and I think they both fit different situations. I live in the city and the manual is just a pain in the leg in traffic, especially after a long day at the office.

I have also been frustrated by the turbo lag. I don't remember there being that much during the test drive. Funny how that works. I have had to change my driving to adjust for the lag, especially in the corners. It seems if I go in the corner already downshifted, I immediately hit the gas, it will kick in by the time I hit the apex. I sure have had to be careful shooting the gaps as the lag just takes longer than I am normally accustomed to in a non-turbo TSX.

Paddle shifters....good enough for F1....good enough for me.

Has anyone tried left foot braking with any luck in the RDX? I was wondering if you could keep up enough revs to decrease the amount of turbo lag.

F.Rizzo

"Paddle shifters....good enough for F1....good enough for me."

F1 cars, BMW and Benz have Sequential Manual Transmissions - a completely different animal that the slushbox in the RDX. Google is your friend.


zzzz, while agree with your points - I live adjacent to Mulholland Drive, so I'm "corner friendly" - but you get no pity from me. You knew what you were getting into when you bought the car, I can tell by your writing - you aint no dummy. I wholehardedly agree about the placement of the shifters, it's almost impossible to shift while steering, but the majority of the population (me included) want an auto for the daily driver because traffic sucks everywhere. You want fun? buy a "fun" car for the weekends....

I agree that it is disingenuous that the car is marketed as "sporty" but as dismayed as I am with the RDX, I cant blame anyone other than myself.

.

neo1738

yes i think remebering that this is 4000 lb vehicle should say something. as for the paddle shifters its a nice idea, but maybe not as practical for those who are more of the "enthusiast". As for a V6 this has been answered many times and the overall impression i got was that the K23T gives a better weight distribution and equals the power. As well, idk about some people but that woosh when the turbo kicks in makes it feel more sporty to me.

flar

I agree that the paddle shifters are more than adequate for downshifting ahead of isolated curves, but they don't work well for twisty mountain roads. Taking Route 9, 84, or skyline around here (SF bay area) and you can hit up to about 10-15 curves in a row with absolutely nothing in between them. Some of them are also decreasing radius and so you can find yourself in the wrong gear mid-corner. Optimally you would learn the road and not make that mistake the next time, but when it happens it would be nice to be able to fix the problem without a lot of automatic transmission drama.

If the RDX had an engine with a relatively flat torque curve then it could probably take all of most series of curves in a single gear, but the meat of the power curve in the turbo 4 is not wide enough to do that - thus you are going to have to shift between curves at some point and the steering wheel will be moving through your hands (even with shuffle steering your hands are planted at a variety of points on the wheel at any given time and moving up and down between corners with no predictable positioning relative to the paddles).

If the RDX had paddle shifters mounted in a fixed location (such as a back/forth gate in the gear selector as in the MDX or paddles mounted to the column) then they would be easier to find while shuffle steering.

If the RDX had two identical paddles (many paddle shifting cars are like this - either paddle can shift up or down depending on whether you push it or pull it) rather than a plus paddle and a minus paddle then it would at least increase the odds you could find a paddle and reduce the added mental game of "but which paddle is this one".

Nothing on the highway tends to require shuffle steering, but there are about 2 dozen really cool roads within 25 miles of me that all require constant shuffling of the wheel for miles on end.

Yes, indeed it handles phenomenally, especially for an SUV/CUV - but that is mostly due to its suspension and the SH-AWD systems. The power train and transmission are good, but they aren't optimal to get the best performance out of this car.

zzznalg

The Handling on the RDX is terrific, as are so many other variables. Thus the one very significant glitch, in my opinion, glares brightly. And, yes, a turbo diesel with a manual could be extraordinary! Conceivably we could have always-on torque, great gas mileage, handling, etc. We could eat our own cakes!

zzznalg

By reading the posts carefully one can see nothing but praise for the RDX's handling.

mickie

Sorry Mike, was wasn't burning you at all. I was referring to the initial post. I can't agree with you more about wanting a stick shift. (Also, having drove the X3 I don't believe stick was an option...correct me if I'm wrong). Bascly, I realized that most SUV's were standard automatic, and there is probably a reason for this. That's what I loved about my last passat, v6 stick. I was in control. That was of course, most needed in the snow when relying on ABS was sketchy, to say the least.

catnippants

Oh I know that Mickie. No harm done. I was just clarifying because it seems most folks here seem to be tying the desire for a manual to wanting sports car performance. I just like it for control.

Mike

mickie

Oh yea, can't agree more, but you wouldn't feel the same way if you could put a stick in a pathfinder V6, or even the Lexus with a stick might actually have to do the job on two side wheels if it doesn't flip. Fact is, they might have "toned it down a notch" for a reason.

neo1738

i wonder if they wanted it to remain more luxury than sporty? just a thought

Fishbulb

Apart from ocassional purists on message boards, there is virtually no demand for manual transmissions in SUV's. It really doesn't make sense for manufacturers to even offer them as an option - look at the CRV, for example. They deleted the 5spd for the 07's in the NA market, and for good reason.

SolidState

Why isn't there a true Manual RDX? The TL and TSX come in Manual. The RDX is like a sports car to me and all sports car should be Manual or it's not a sports car to me.

If there was a Manual RDX in the next 3 years, I would trade my current RDX in for it. I would even ignor the fact that the HFL is limited and the MusicLink is a scam.

fast1

I wonder if SH-AWD and a manual are not compatible. The compromise of giving the driver more control with gearing may necessitate the need for more proactive VSA and may reduce the driving experience overall.

If the new TSX or TL gets SH-AWD, I'm curious to see if the manual option goes away in those platforms. In any case, I think a 6 speed SH-AWD is needed to compensate for the mpg complaints and bring it inline with other vehicles in the class. This would provide a good highway touring gear that lays off the boost and saves gas when cruising at a constant speed.

rdxsteverino

Something ocurred to me as I was pushing my RDX through a turn. I really feel the turn being carved when the turbo engages. Although RDX's tubo lag is small compared to others, SH-AWD works best when you can force acceleration early coming out of the turn. Makes me think a V-6 might be better suited to SH-AWD than an I-4 turbo since there is virtually no lag. A good comparison would be the RL and '07 MDX with their V-6's.

Probably not the right board to ask, but how do the RL & 07 MDX drivers feel about SH-AWD?

bobq

I drove my wife's 07 MDX again this weekend.

I couldn't wait to get back into my RDX.

The MDX is not very responsive. It drives like it is carrying 2000lbs more than the engine was designed for.

From around town driving when you want a bit of quick acceleration, it is not there unless you have your foot into it about 3/4ths of the way. Then the engine really growls and it will get the vehicle moving. Not something you want to do all the time.

On the freeway, it again takes a big heavy foot to slightly accelerate around a slow vehicle. The RDX does it with just a light touch.

The 04 MDX we had prior was soo much better at all around driving. Hopefully the 07 MDX's engine will loosen up a bit as we only ave 2500 miles on it so far.

As to the feel of the SH-AWD, it can be felt, but due to the heavy feeling in general, the effect is not as easily felt.

All of this is based on dry, California roads so far.

kthlex

I don't have a manual handy to verify, but I seem to remember reading that if you hold the paddle shifter down that it will step up or down more then one gear...

sasair

From the manual:

When in D mode:
Each time you pull either paddle
shifter, the transmission shifts one
gear up or down. If you want to shift
up or down more than two gears, pull
the paddle shifter twice, pause, and
then pull it again.

No mention of this shifting method in S mode. Doesn't sound very useful to me anyway.

dennarda

I am not suprised by this assessment. While I have never driven the new MDX, I have driven a lot of Honda/Acura products and they ave all hd one thing in common, the engines have always been at their best at high RPM's. The one exception to this rule is the RDX which has a great low RPM torque response. That is one reason I think the turbo might be an excellent engine to pair with the SH-AWD. It seems as though SH-AWD needs lots of torque to be pushed to the wheels and despite the flaws of the turbo, it does push a lot of torque at a low and wide RPM band which I think works great for the SH-AWD. Remember that the MDX has a great boost in horsepower (~20%) but a modest boost in torque (~5%). The reason the HP is so good is that the MDX has a typical high revving honda engine which does best at high RPMs (high torque at high RPMs = high HP). The end result is that the bigger engine is not enough to compensate for the bigger size and the SH-AWD has little punch until high RPMs.

zzznalg

I met someone yesterday who test drove the RDX and ruled it out because of powertrain lag. He noted that in a situation such as maneuvering into a hole in tight traffic, acceleration response was unreliable and unpredictable. The only way to be assured of power is to nearly punch it. Of course this results in the tremendous blast of acceleration we all know and love. I agreed with this person that such powertrain dynamics do not make for good driveability.

porsherules911

Honestly I dont think its that bad. In tight situations thats what the paddle shifters are for. I usually just downshift a gear and when the space is open then i hit it and I know the power will be there. If its really really tight I might even downshift 2 gears and takeoff like a rocket. But I guess it all depends on each person and the way they drive.

darth62

My TSX does that too. It has less to do with turbo charging and more to do with emissions controls.

zzznalg

Another observation of powertrain characteristics: During normal driving around town, when more power is called for by rapidly depressing the accelerator .5 inches to a full inch, there is a one to two second blip when the power actually diminishes before a downshift.