Darmc96

I had my RDX out on Friday, Saturday and Sunday this weekend with all the snow we got in the northeast. Overall I was very pleased with it. I have the stock 18" Michelins on it, but have a set of Pirelli Scorpion winter tires and wheels on the way. It ought to be a real tank in the snow with those. I had no quarrels with the performance of the stock Michelins with them being brand new, but know from having had them on past vehicles that the performance in the elements will drop off significantly as they wear. The AWD system worked well as did the VSA. My initial complaint was that the AWD didn't seem to give as much power to the rears as I would have liked which caused the RDX to plow like a front drive car on occasion. I noticed this a bit less as I got used to it, but it still doesn't seem like this AWD system throws as much power as quickly to the rear wheels as my wife's Mazda CX-7 or my old Mazdaspeed 6 did. I agree with the school of thought that it is good to get out and tinker with a new ride in the snow a bit to learn its tendancies. After some time behind the wheel I was able to get the RDX to do what I wanted it to and it was very stable on the roads.

My only major complaint is the wipers. They are some of the worst units in the snow I have ever used. My passenger side wiper is so frosen up at this point that I think it may never work again. The blade units are horrible. They clog up with ice and snow faster than any I have ever had. I am planning to try to replace them with Bosch or Michelin units as soon as I can. As luck would have it my factory all weather mats came in on Saturday and they are great in the snow so you don't have to worry about tracking snow and slush.

I will report back once I get my winter tires on and we see some snow with them. I honestly think that the RDX will be a real beast in the snow with them. I had Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22's on my Mazdaspeed 6 and that thing was great....

MMike1981

One thing....i too second the horrible F'ING wipers, but not the blades, just the actual mechanisms....im pretty sure Darmc that the blades are already bosch and they come stock...but may have to dbl check. The rear wiper is whimpish and it stopped clearing anything, water/ice/snow after 1 day, returned to normal on my trip back when the temps got into 30 deg.

I was skiiing since thursday, and my RDX bore the brunt of the entire storm. One on friday, and one on sunday. it was 3 degrees out from fri-sunday. Not 1 single mechanical issue. the only thing i noticed were some odd rattles coming from the dash, but hey in almost zero degree weather, theres gotta be something that shrinks up.

Car warmed up in 5 mins, threw heat every time, all the time.

As far as handling, never lost control once, never felt out of control either. i drove back IN THE STORM yesterday (7 hrs in the car omg) no other choice. Unplowed highway the entire way home. the truck did great, when i had to change lanes and cross a few inches of snow, the shawd kept the nose straight, applying a little extra power pushed the truck straight and after about an hour or so of highway snow, i actually felt extremely confident in my traction and the system. The VSA rarely lit, if ever, on the entire trip. Have to say, the shawd plowed thru everything, but in addition, did so without getting me stressed out, the snow was there but the system made you believe other wise. As far as the tires go, nothing happened during my winter throw down that would have me change the stocks, and honestly, these last 4 days are as brutal as it gets in the northeast, between the ice & snow and a couple feet of it, stocks did FINE.

shawd is prob the best system going right now, confidence inspiring in weather that would make you have a panic attack behind the wheel.

I must say the place where i noticed the system at work, and working really fast and accurate were the lane changes on the highway going 30-40 mph. You could feel the power from corner to corner and the system pushing the car straight...it was really quite something, after a few changes and figuring out the best way to apply power, it really took the edge off the drive home

JGard

Yeah, my only real complaint would also be that the AWD system sends too much power to the fronts. I had a lot of instances of the front-end plowing under throttle, which was annoying.

But I have 17" wheels with Blizzacks and the car has been better than expected through this snow and ice. The stock tires aren't awful in the snow, but snow tires are 100x better.

MMike1981

darm...bring the car into a parking lot and do some turns, you will quickly notice the action of the rear wheels...the shawd behaves a little different i think, it lets the ass of the car come out just a bit, its not as rigid as some other awd systems, ass sways you add some power and the truck executes beautifully in control

i was doing some big figure 8's in the empty lot after the mountain closed, with the shawd screen on on the dash, and honestly...i really dont have any complaints, the cx-7's system doesnt touch the shawd, i do my snow tests every winter in the lots and the CX-7's vsa limited the car so much it was driving with training wheels on, some people may like that but i hated it, the awd worked, but it worked but not letting you accelerate thru a turn or point the truck and hammer it where u want to go it basically just made the truck less driveable but in doing so might have felt more controled in the process...the vsa & awd, imo, in the CX-7, was some of the worst tuned system ive ever been behind the wheel of, i cant speak for the 6 w/awd never drove it before....the shawd is the direct opposite but does it in control & w/finesse.

also, it may not be sending as much power to the rear because you may not have needed it...take the truck somewhere and watch the power distribution when ur pulling some turns and or accelerating...you may also just not notice the power being transfered....i was hammering the gas on some hills to watch and see where and how the power went on teh display...the rear wheels were displaying 1 or 2 bars MORE than the fronts.....would never have felt that way tho if i wasnt looking

Darmc96

actually the difference with the CX-7 and the RDX is that the CX-7 puts itself into a snow mode (how it gets there I don't know) and basically will do 50/50 front to rear power. the CX-7 never plows as it always has power going to the rear when it puts itself in snow mode. Actually becasue the stock Bridgestone EL-42 POS's on the CX-7 are gone in the rear, we were having a problem getting the rear end under containment. A swap to better tires will fix that up. Both my CX and Mazdaspeed (same AWD system) will bring the back end right out and the VSA system with good tires will keep the back under containment. The RDX doesn't go into a 50/50 snow mode, so at times the rear end feels a little slow to respond compared to the CX-7. You just have to get used to it by comparison. Actually in my Mazdaspeed 6 I was amazed that the VSA system would let you drift or flip the back end out but never let you loose control. Both systems work great in the snow, just got to get used to it. As far as SH-AWD being one of the best AWD systems going, that is kind of debatable. Depends on your perspective. I don't think Mazda's system is the best going, either. Both of them do a fine job for what I need them for it is just that the system in the RDX is more like FWD with a little RWD assist. I understand you hated your CX-7 but the AWD system in the CX-7, CX-9 and Mazdaspeed 6 is far from horribly tuned. Actually, the biggest difference other than SH-AWD being able to speed up the outside wheel in a corner to assist in dry driving is that the RDX system seemed like if it couldn't get power with the front wheels at all, it was not able to send enough power to the rear wheels to compensate, thus leaving the car "plowing" on occasion like a FWD. The CX-7 system will go 50/50 so if the front wheels get no grip the system will allow the rear wheels enough power to move the car. I drove both cars back to back on Friday and this was my conclusion. Being familiar with the way the Mazda system works, this was the most plausable explanation I could come up with. At the end of the day I played with the RDX and got the system to do basically everything I wanted it too.

Darmc96

Here is some info on the Mazda system for good measure confirming the "snow" mode...

The CX-7 is equipped with Mazda’s new active torque split all-wheel drive system, which debuted on the MazdaSpeed6, featuring a more aggressive transfer of torque to the rear axle in accordance with driving conditions. This intelligent system achieves a satisfying balance between the interactive control over the vehicle that makes it particularly enjoyable to drive, and confident handling stability necessary for snowy, wet or other uncertain road surfaces/conditions; engine power and torque are faithfully and efficiently transferred to the road surface for maximum performance.

The active torque split AWD system uses real-time data input on steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G-force and engine status to determine road surface and driving conditions. The CX7’s onboard computer then automatically determines which of three different modes of front/rear torque distribution should be engaged: Normal, Sport, or Snow (for slippery surfaces). The active torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential is electronically controlled in accordance with the data provided by the computer, adjusting front/rear wheel torque distribution between 100:0 and 50:50 to deliver optimum drive power to each axle. The result is that the most power and traction are made available under all conditions; positive acceleration and confident handling are provided regardless of constantly changing road conditions, as well as the ability to fully balance the vehicle in a turn by skilful use of the accelerator pedal.

Unlike many competitor offerings, the torque transfer system in the CX-7 seamlessly integrates the inherent stability of all-wheel drive; because the active torque coupling is controlled electronically, it can react to wheel slippage much more rapidly than conventional gear- or fluid-controlled systems. To ensure consistent power delivery under all weather and driving conditions, the Power Take-Off (PTO) system on the centre differential that distributes torque to the rear axle is fitted with its own liquid-cooled cooling system.

Once the computer has shifted into snow or sport mode it pre-loads the rear axle so you don't have to wait for slippage. As oppossed to the system in the 01-04 Tribute where the wheels had to actually slip before the AWD kicked in.

<On the TCS System>

The braking system works in synergy with the CX-7’s Dynamic Stability Control (DSC), incorporating a traction control system (TCS), to exhibit an outstanding level of active safety. The Dynamic Stability Control system is designed to activate when the vehicle is taking a turn too quickly for the road conditions. DSC compares the driver's intended direction (from the steering wheel angle) to the actual vehicle path; if the system senses
understeer or oversteer, it applies braking force, and reduces engine torque if required, to correct the situation.

Traction control systems generally come in one of two primary systems: an ABS-based system, or an engine management system. Both systems use the ABS wheel speed sensors to determine if there is wheel spin (wheel speed greater than vehicle speed). The CX-7 system uses engine management to reduce the amount of power output by reducing fuel, ignition timing and throttle position to reduce wheel spin. This system is superior to systems that use the ABS brakes to slow down the spinning wheel – ABS systems have a tendency to be very jarring in their operation and can overheat the brakes if used for extended periods of time. The CX-7’s traction control system (TCS) deals with the problem of the engine supplying too much power for road conditions right at the source; when wheel spin is detected, the TCS simply reduces the engine’s power output until the wheel spin stops.

Darmc96

Thought this was a good read and actually supports the argurement of how good the SH-AWD system is in the grand scheme.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/1...est/index.html

MMike1981

Heres the thing...AND, its not because i hated the vehicle (the awd had nothing to do w/the trucks problems)

the system in the mazda is utterly restrictive.

The computer drove the car in any condition it deemed necessary. So, when im going UP a hill, and tires slipped, when i would apply gas, the computer basically shut off the throttle (engine management? more later". it was this problem of power application in the mazda that basically fought the persons inherent ability to command the vehicle. I absolutely hated that. it limited power application as it saw fit. that doesnt work in many scenarios.

as far as keeping the power at 50/50...that is good, but the essence of the problem is how the mazda LETS you apply power in order to make good of the 50/50 split. So basically its only good when the computer was letting me make use of it. that sucks, flat out. the computer drove the cx-7.

if you notice in the write up of its system...the entire use of the AWD is limited as to what the vehicle sees fit. Also...the mazda reacts to road conditions...very different in its application when compared to SHAWD...its always sending power (even tho it may be minimal in most cases), so basically, always active. The safeties built into the trac/stab control of the CX-7 limit its AWD in a big way, basically taking the driver out of the equation
-----
"This intelligent system"
"The CX7’s onboard computer then automatically determines"
"The active torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential is electronically controlled in accordance with the data provided by the computer"
"because the active torque coupling is controlled electronically, it can react to wheel slippage much more rapidly than conventional gear- or fluid-controlled systems."
"Once the computer has shifted into snow or sport mode it pre-loads the rear axle"
---
The entire "engine management system" of the CX-7 needs to be reworked, in theory sounds good, in application its too electronic and fails on the road, rendering the throttle at some points inactive, breaking the car, and basically keeping it on a drive line that it "thinks" is appropriate.

the whole system sounds great on paper, except in application is sucks. if they could reengineer the computer that controls the awd/trac/stab for it to effectively translate onto pavement, then maybe it would be better.

winter driving for me in the mazda was a stop/go/pulsating/squeeking/rev limiting mess. just my opinion. but i never drove a truck that had such an ELECTRONIC system equate to a mechanical mess.

MMike1981

from motortrend...and i think this is the essance of my above post...

"the SH-AWD system did its work with less intrusiveness, whereas many of the other systems delivered odd noises, suspension shuttering, and some kickback in the wheel...again, all the competitive systems worked well, but proved more active whereas the SH-AWD was more seamless"

and thats the beauty of it, unless ur looking at the power vectoring thing on the dash, you may not even know where the power is going and how ur getting up a hill etc, it just works without any of the typical lights flashing, break pulsing, anxiety attack making elements of other systems

i had many in the cx-7, none so far w/shawd

MMike1981

...it also could be that maybe im using the truck more aggresively, and in that aggressiveness the RDX just worked that much better when the mazda failed me.

i never knew what to expect from the cx-7 in tough conditions, and i think that is very important when we are driving in horrible stuff, it felt like there were a bunch of midgets under the hood trying to mess with me...in the RDX, driving in snow just flowed, it was easy, i was never in fear of losing throttle response or the car breaking itself on me, it really is calming not to have all hell break loose when ur not expecting it and try to accelerate or something

at the end of the day, yea awd systems are obviously better than any rwd/fwd, and more or less awd across the board will perform well..but SHAWD really does it much better than any other system out right now, altho that could be subjective as well...but many a professional opinion tends to concur, even that motortrend article

MMike1981

and just a quick thing--> obviously all these systems are "computer" controlled. lol..i am not intending to say one is vs one is not. its the way in which the systems work that differ greatly...

Darmc96

yah, second "major" snow here and gotta say the only gripe I have is the tendancy of this vehicle to want to plow and the AWD not reacting as quickly as I am used to to help correct it. In almost every other situation this vehicle is flawless but time and again when I would "push" the RDX into a turn to make it plow the rear wheels seemed slow to react, then the VSA would cut power and not allow the car to power the rear wheels to bring the rear end of the car around. This is something that the Mazda system in my wife's car is better at. That being said, as long as you don't push the RDX into a turn too agressive and make it start to plow it powers out of turns and powers the rear wheels nicely. Definately not "bad". The vehicle again was solid in the snow around here today with the stock Michelin's on it. I have my Pirelli Scorpions waiting in my garage for my RDX factory wheels to arrive from the ebay guy.....still.....waiting..... The thing ought to be an absolute tank once I eventually get the wheels and get the snows on there.

wwest

For both the RDX and the CX-7 an interesting experiment would be to put tire chains on ONLY the rear wheels in a large packed snow or icy "no obstacle" parking lot. AS I understand it both vehicles will put more torque to the rear upon front wheelspin/slip and with high traction at the rear then that should be the end of it.

Assuming "reasonable" engine torque levels if either vehicle continues to have TCS activation, dethrottling, front braking, or both, I would consider them inadequate for adverse roadbed conditions.

Both could probably use a switch that forces tight torque coupling to the rear if the driver choses. The problem with that, of course, is that an unknowing and/or inexperienced John Q Public would probably abuse the system and teh cost for warranty repairs would skyrocket.

On the other hand a thermistor to sense impending PTO overheating due to driveline windup could be used to over-ride the switch.

Since the RDX has the ability to route more than 50% to the rear it is really a shame the owner/driver can't manually select that mode.