Has anyone replaced the pulleys on their CL. I havent sceen anyone really talk about this mod much here but I though they are supposed to give ~5-10 more horsepower.

 

I don't know too much about the gains on the 2.3's or 2.2's, but for the V6 CL's pullies are one of the best mods you can do. A couple of guys here have it done and a whole bunch have gotten pullies on their V6 Accords (which share the same engine) at V6performance.net, and the gains are great. Probably the best bang for the buck mod for the V6's. There has been several dyno's taken and a sticky at V6performance.net has the following to say (they prefer the UR pullies to AEM by the way).

1. Alternator Pulley :The alternator pulley is simply lightened and smaller diameter in some applications. No major gains are seen here, typically 2-4HP in our cars.

2. Power Steering Pulley: Again, same as above, no major gains, but serve the same principal of lighter or smaller diameter for max gains. Gains are 2-4 HP.

3. Crank Pulley: Ok here’s the "meat" of your gains, somewhere in the range of 12-15+ HP from this small little pulley. The smaller diameter allows for more engine revolutions thereby increasing HP dramatically.

 

Don't forget the downside, pulleys typically change the way your alternator, Air conditioner and whatever else is on a belt, normally act. This can cause your air conditioner to overwork itself or your alternator to not put out the same output as it does with the factory pullies. So there are ups and downs to pullies, talk to some of the guys on the board i'm sure they have more specific happenings with this.

 

i have the aem p/s and alt pullies. ur alt will last longer becuase
it is spinning less (provide proper install), unless u draw too much current like big systems at idle. then u will burn it out. your power steering will not chaneg enough for u to tell. over all the engine revs a little smoother and faster, and i did notice a slight bump mid power band. im contemplating an ur crank pulley. many have said it damages the engine with proof. although most of these ppl race their cars so there are more variables. jens form park ave acura said i should have no probs. they are very reptuable. i might just go ahead and get the pulley. its very cheap like $120 and for 10hp thats the best bang for the buck except for nos. i have had my aem pulleis for 2 yrs and no probs what so ever. if u have halogen lighting it will dim slightly at idle. i would reccomend a good battery like optima if u get stuck in traffic alot in the summer just as an extar precaution. i have had an optima battery since the pulley install. it is by far the best battery i have ever had. fyi an aem/ur crank pulley setup will net the biggest gains overall.

 

Yeah I read on some site in a description of some product that says there is one version I thich which was the AEM pulley set leaves on some special bushing that officially reported damage without and then there was a second set which replaces that part i think the brand was Unorthodox. The second looks like it gives a little more HP but ruins your engine. But I have always heard pullies being a good investment for HP and I havent sceen many people talk about them just I/H/E.

 

rmh you got IHE already after 6 days of owning your car?? damn you must have a lot of money to put into your car.

 

no no no, i wish.... i was just saying that I dont see people every talking about pulleys and i though that would be a first.

 

AEM only sells the p/s and alt pulley becuase they don't want to get involved with dampner on the oem crank pulley. aem pullies are light and underdrive to make power. UR makes a complete set but their p/s and alt pullies are just light they dont underdrive. their crank pully has no dampner. their set makes all the power fron the crank pulley. if you combined the aem p/s and alt pulley with a ur crank pulley that would be the best of both worlds and net the biggest gain. their is deabte whether or not the oem dampner is needed. the only person with any knowledge to actually respect about it was jens from parc ave acura. he said i should have absolutely no probs, but again ppl have taken their engine apart and have found abnormal wear on the bottom end. so who really knows. i still might just go ahead and order the ur crank pulley. then if the engine goes have have to buy a h22

 

That's the wrong mentality. It will burn your alternator up, period. Our alternators are sized to adequately run our cars with all the accessories on, that's it. When you underdrive the alternator, you are cutting down it's output current by the percent you underdrive it. If it's underdriven 25%, you just cut your alternator down by that much (which is actually about 25 amps on our CLs). If you have even a minimal stereo (sub and amp) this could further the risk that much more. A 200 watt amp adds about a 10 amp continous draw. So, if you have a 100 amp draw on a now 75 amp alternator, kiss the alternator goodbye. You could get a larger alternator, but that would just reverse any good effect the underdrive pullies had. A larger alternator has more rotational mass, and takes more effort to spin.

Our power steering is just adequate as it is, so cutting that down is just up to you.

Using the UR crank pulley and the AEM pullies together is a BAD idea. Your alternator is now at about 50% of it's rated output, same with your power steering. Your alternator is toast. You also would need to find a belt to fit that combo as well.

 

proaudio ur missing something. you must have missed the part about idle. ur alt will last longer provided you dont draw too much during idle. after about 1200 rpms both the stock and aem alt pulley produce almost the exact same output. (i ran load tests at a garage) our cls produce more than enough current for all oem systems at idle. unless your one one those ppl with fogs, sidemarkers, led washers, neon kits, big systems, etc. if your gonna throw a big system in ur going to slow ur car down more then pullies will make up for n e ways. you cant be blasting ur a system during idle without upgrading ur batt and alt, but you should have done that n e ways, especially if you have alot of aftermarket accessories!!! if your smart and do things right you wont have any problems and thats the bottom line. pullies are not for everyone. the ur crank is extremely light and underdrive is minimal.

if you mix what proaudio and i said you should have a godo understanding if pullies are right for you

 

It doesn't matter idle or cuising. It just alters what specs to look for.

What kind of load test did you do? Of course it would show the same current, you need to look at the voltage. Stock would prob be 13.5v, AEM would be 12.5 or lower. There is no way the alternator can have similat output running at 3/4th the revolutions. Dipping below 12 is dangerous. You should also have above 14v at 2K.

I'll take my clamp meter and see how much power our cars draw with all the stock accessories on when I get some time. My Taurus had a 130 amp alternator. It pulled 100 amps with all the lights, etc on.

 

Any one that has an audio amp that is powering more than 1 speaker should probably being using a capacitor with their audio system to save the battery/alternator durring idle and current IS the big thing we are worried about here, all electronic devices in the car probably regulate the voltages they are using down 5~7 volts and they use little current. Any of the other components like condensers, compressors, pumps wont be picky about voltage and as long as the circuit can provide enough current everything will run well, you cant burn out an alternator my makeing it spin less, it also wont magically spin harder if there is more load on the system, if the system is looking for 100 amps and the alternator is only putting out 70 amps then the alternator wont get worn out, your head lights will dim and some shit might not work, alternators only get fried when you short your system big time, like if a power line to your dritrobution block shorts on your chasis

 

Nope, a cap will not do anything for you in that situation. This is a common misconception. A cap is there to help with quick peaks for when the voltage drops b/c the amplifier pulls more current for a split second. It discharges only when the voltage is lower than what is constanly available. If the current draw exceeds what is available, your voltage will drop (NOT the current), it will simply discharge the cap until the cap is at the same voltage, where the cap will continue to discharge when the voltage dips below the incoming level. Really, everyone should test the load being pulled form their car and upgrade their alternator if the load is greater than what the stock unit can provide. A battery will only help when your voltage is around 12 volts.

The alternator regulates the voltage that goes to the main fusebox where ALL of those items are powered from. The only thing that is not regulated is the battery charge circuit.

I shouldn't really say the alternator will burn up. It is the voltage regulator will burn up fairly quick, and most people don't realize it's there and can be changed seperately, so they change the whole alternator. The alternator will burn up tho if it runs a 100% duty cycle trying to keep up with current demands.

If a power wire shorts to ground and fries some stuff, it serves you right for not having it properly fused.

 

The cap is doing exactly what I said and you said V=IR if v goes down current will go up to maintain equilibrium. If the the car is idleing and the bass hits and you have a cap installed the power from the cap will be discharged and less power will come from battery/alternator and then charge back up inbetween hits saving current for the rest of your system.

Yes the alternator regulates the voltage a little but with the current draw of your system it fluxuates a little i was just reffering to the regulation done for CMOS or TTL integrated circuits in the electronics, they use 3-7 volts with very little currnt.

in my origional setup in my old cutlass the ring connector on my 4guage power wire wasnt crimped on tight enought and poped off and shorted inside my truck somewhere, that sucked.... i think it was the cause my alternator going eventually in that car

 

If your voltage drops to say 13v from 14.4v, the cap will be discharged to 13v as well. Yes, current draw from an amp will increase, but so will the current demand to charge the capacitor when it has to discharge more rapidly to keep up with the increased current draw.

Ah, yes for ICs, etc you are correct. I didn't think you were talking that in depth.

 

proaudio stock my alt was putting out over 14 volts. now with the aem it puts out about 13 volts. amps are done signifigantly though. but after about 1200rpms both voltage and amps for both the stock and aem pully are almost identical. thats the only point im trying to make. i had an optima battery during both tests. if not i would have to say that voltage at the batt would definitley be in the mid to high 12s during idle

ANYONE who likes lots of accessories and wants to blast their system at idle should prob stay away from underdrive pullies. you should upgrade ur batt reguardless. oem batts suck. buy optima.

 

top of the line energizer batterys have more CCA than the optima yellow top if thats the one u are referring to for less

 

optimas (yellow, blue) are deep cycle dry cells. that is why they are better. u dont need more than 800cca to start a honda i4 or v6 thats for sure. u can start a big block v8 with that.

 

Ima fool around w/ my car later, a friend is supposed to some over w/ his car so we can check them both out. I would guess that w/ the AEM stock peeps would be fine. I still think the AEM+UR crank is a bad idea...

I don't think the Optima had anything to do w/ the voltage. They can't store up anything above 12v. Anything above that is a product of the charging system.

 

pro i was amazed myself. but seriously my optima holds 13 volts with the car off as opposed to 12 with my stock battery. both optimas i had were like that. the red top starter and now my blue top deep cycle.

 

Hmmm...maybe just the product of a better designed battery?

 

I want pullies but I have too much juice in trunk for the system and Id rather have that anyway.



Great discussion though!!

 

You can dig on ebay and find a 6 or even 12 farad capacitor which can hold almost as much power as a battery but charge and discharge rappidly. You could instally that with your system and then you should be good with the pullies

 

dual optima dry cell setup will give u all the power u need. caps are only good for peaks.

 

Right, caps only provide power for PEAKS, IE when an amplifier needs large amounts of current in a hurry. If you are pounding a 30hz tone continously from a rap song, a cap isn't going to do that much. The charge/discharge rate of even a 15 farad capacitor will quickly be overrun and the cap will sit dormant.

Batteries will help tremendously when you are sitting at idle (esp w/ pullies :P ) or with your car off.

(Optimas really aren't dry cells...but that's beside the point. )

 

Wrong!

Its called an under-drive pulley for a reason. The alternator will work x% less then stock.

Result:
1. alternator will last x% longer then stock
2. dimming lights/draining battery while idling
3. more hp to the wheels
4. possibly shorten life of battery because of #2

 

you are right i just checked. i dont know why i thought they were. well they are definitely completey sealed, deep cycle, and very good performers. a good $120 investment thats for sure.

and q2 that logic is only currect if you dont draw too much current to where things are being powered direclty from the alt and there is no storage in the battery. this is when the alt will most likey fry. at that point is just easier to replace the alt or upgrade. this is the point i was trying to make with pro audio. its like having a dropped car. if u drive it regular u will mess up the nice body work. if u use ur accs'ry reg when u have pullies u risk frying the alt. this is not a concern if you cl is completely stock though.

 

My amp is only powering subs and I dont have know any music with steady monotone freq like that proaudio most bass is peaks not continuous which is why a cap is good, if your amp is powering 6.5's and 6x9 continously then i see where cap could be insufficient durring idle.

 

Right, it's called an underdrive b/c the pulley is larger than stock, and spins the alternator less. So now our alternator is limited to x% of stock output. Ok, cool.

There is no way it will last longer than stock just because it is spinning less. Rotations have nothing to do with it, it's how much stress/heat is placed upon the coils/windings. When it's running at a 100% duty cycle, it gets hotter. So while it's trying to keep up with all your demands, one day it just *poof* melts the wrong thing. $314 part.

So now our x% of stock isn't cutting it. Current demand is too great, voltage drops. Voltage regulator burns up trying to up the voltage. $147 part.

Yep.

Yep.


Now I agree w/ VXCL, I don't think the AEM pullies or even the UR crank alone underdrive it enough to make these kind of symptoms on a stock car. It's the extra accessories or stereo equip.

 

Awesome batteries. They work well in harsher conditions too, that's why it's nice they are sealed. My friend's boat has four of the blue tops, neva given him any problems in the two years he's had them. They put a brand new battery in my car when I bought it, but whenever it craps out I'll get an Optima.


I see your point now. I don't think there would be any problems with a stock car either. It's the extra stuff that would make it a problem. AEM+larger alternator would be the same thing as just the stock alternator and pulley. So if you end up having problems with power, you could just swap back to stock.

 

UR has a pully for the crank that is the same size as OEM but waights 9lbs less. For every pound of perisitic waight you remove you can get 2HP.

 

i dont want to bash ur, but the only thing that stopped me from getting the crank pulley is the countless stories of damage. and its not islolated. i read stuff on many honda, toyota, and mazda web boards. something is up and no one has exact answers. not worth it for 5-8 hp. i would rather get a cam shaft and gear.