is it possible? ive read that the f22a heads are the most free flowing, and im thinking if its possible to switch it with my f22b1 head for boost.. if it's not, ill just buy a f22a and build it up.

 

Well isnt the f22a head non vtec? how important is VTEC to you?

 

yeah its non vtec. i really dont care for vtec. trying to boost w/ vtec would cause for more problems imo, because of the tuning.

but if i do switch, wouldn't i have to change the ecu or something to remove vtec?

[edit]: man, i feel like an idiot. im searching on google for this right now, and it seems like everyone wants to put the vtec head on their f22a1's. maybe i'm just thinking wrong.

 

yea ur pretty much thinking wrong. why would boosting w/vtec cause an issue? especially with the vtec that the single cam f series has, its only on the intake side. the f22a's are an archaic motor, my beater has 1 and its slow as hell. although it flows well, the f22b heads can easily be made to flow just as well if not even better with less work, and also keeping vtec. newer technology from honda usually = better product, orelse they wouldn't have switched from f22a to f22b. even if it could fit, I wouldn't waste my time.

 

i did hear about vtec and boosting and i did hear it is better to be non vtec idk thats what the locals told me

 

i was told the timing may be off, but im going to look into making the f22b head flow better. thanks.

 

its not better, its just easier to tune. for example, a boosted b18b1 can produce a good 250 whp, but with the same setup on a b18c1 or c5, it can be at 300 easily. vtec = more air. more air = more power, simply put.

 

happy I could help

 

much better idea

 

i <3 f22a's. plus the exhaust mani is the same as the dsm's more or less. imho you don't need vtec for boost. the point of the turbo is to push as much air through the motor as possible. so why have the intake valves less than full open at any point in the gear range? seems kinda simple to me, the less complicated the system the easier it is to run and you'd have less potential problems. i mean the whole point of vtec is fuel economy, but if you're taking an N/A motor that runs 87 octane and forcing twice as much air and 91+ octane, fuel economy is kinda out the window already.

my $0.0179581 - canadian funds, lol.

 

good points. now im being swayed back to my original idea.

port n polish a f22b1 head would probably take more money than a swap.

 

port n polish an f22b head would cost nowhere near as much as a swap, it shouldn't cost more than 500 for a great PnP job. I understand your point on the f22a's dave, less complication means less to go wrong. but do u think putting an f22a head would be effective on an f22b block? I think with the better valve technology, you can more fine tune the flow with a b1 head than an a6 head. the only advantage I see to the a6 head is that the dsm manifolds bolt right up so u can do a budget turbo build pretty easily.

 

Does the b1 have the dual intake runners? i put the whole h23 intake manifold on the f22a, has a bigger plenum.

i thought the f22a's flowed as good or better than the h22a's?

 

no I don't think b1's have the dual intake runners, not from what i've seen anyway. the f22a6's don't flow as well stock, but can be made to with work, but that's just like any other honda head lol. i'll give the a's their due, i've seen some great builds with them and they're pretty capable and have the advantage of having dsm compatibility, but the best f series single cam setups both n/a and boosted have been f22b's or f23's.

 

well im pretty sure i can junkyard a f22a1 (or a6) head and a h23 IM for around 100$ total. that would be 400 less than a PnP job and ill have that much for the turbo.

 

so ur gonna use a junkyard f22a head and an h23 IM and u think that'll flow better for turbo than ur f22b head with an h23 IM ? idk bout that.

I also don't see what's the big deal about having a vtec head for tuning in a single cam, its really not an issue to tune. if it was better to not have it, then y do all the single cam civic dudes go with y8 heads instead of the non vtec ones? why do the f22a turbo setups net u about 175 hp and the f22b/f23 turbo setups w/the same mods net 200-210? idk, maybe dave can shed some light on this for me since he's had more experience w/single cams.

 

the aftermarket support for the f22ax is bigger than for f22b1. plus the ports wouldnt match up with the h23 IM and id have to end up getting it ported for it to work (which i was aiming to avoid in the 1st place)

plus ive read that the vtec in our f22b1's are mainly for fuel economy.

 

r u sure its gonna bolt right up to the block? essentially it should since their relatively the same.

 

it don't see how you'd get 25-35 more hp out of the f22b/f23's over the a6 with the same mods. there's only 5/10hp differece between them stock.

just doesn't make sense. even more so with the f23 multistage vtec and most of the f22a turbo's i hear about are 200whp at least.

weird.

but yeah back to the OP, does the head even fit right or are you looking at a senario similar to the g2x swaps?

 

Either way there's more of a power gain with the vtec heads as opposed to the non vtec ones, correct? if it were your build, would u switch heads? i'm trying to imply that I wouldn't because it would be a hassle, and less performance potential from what i've seen

 

yeah i see what you're saying. but even then if it's his dd then he could get the a6 head done and just swap em. the head has to come off either way. like say he picks up the head for a 100 bucks right, is that worth the week of not having a car while the head work gets done?

i was gonna say i'm kinda biased but i have had both motors now that i think about it, lol. my first car was a 94 accord coupe exr with an f22b1 if i'm not mistaken. but it was auto and my built f22a1 was a 5spd.

 

i'm gonna go see if i can find the head ifno on the two....

 

yeah aisde from the vtec and an extra 0.1cc head volume they are pretty much the same motor.

 

no need to. ive asked on another forum and they said it bolts up.

http://www.accordinglydone.com/forum...ad.php?t=11896

and as for vtec, if it only opens up on intake side, wouldn't it be bad since the exhaust doesnt open up, so you cant get the exhaust gasses out.... and even worse for turbo since you want all the exhaust out as fast as possible (eg. no backpressure)

 

nono, you're missing the point. what's happening is the intake side opens less and then more/full when the vtec engages. the exhaust side opens the same amount no matter what rpm.

you've heard of a vtec killer cam right? well it's basically a cam that increases the non vtec lobe, thus basically 'killing' the vtec. plus teh non vtec cams would have less lobes and rotational mass, but that's not really much.

i dunno, i guess it's like everything it's all up to you at the end of the day

another thing to check into is turbo cams, price/avail for either.

 

oh okay. thanks for clearing that up.

and yeah ive heard of a vtec killer cam. i was going to suggest that be used on a f22a1 so itd be a lot better than the b1 but then i realized that it was for track use only.

and ill check for the prices of the turbo cams later. i would probably end up going with bisi's cams but ill have to save up for that.
ill end up doing this swap. lets just hope i can land another job cause im in need of moneyyyy

 

vtec killer cams are great. it's like permanent VTEC. but you idle like a tractor.

 

ive been told its not streetable, so that turned me off from the idea. =(

 

If it was streetable i'd do it. I love that lopey tractor idle.

Is there even a toda vtec killer cam for the f series?

 

im not so sure. i doubt it, since f really isnt that popular of an engine to do stuff for.

but i was on bisi's site looking up a turbo camshaft regrind, and its only 230$ for it. says it should yield around 60 whp so it seems like a great deal.

 

maybe with a tuned turbo setup...

And you need the valvesprings to go with it, or at least he recommends it. Which is like anther $200 or something like that.

EDIT: and where did you see it for $230? It says $350 on his site, not including the cost of an additional stock cam core.

 

i was looking up the f22 non vtec one, since im going to go on with the swap. the vtec one is 100 more

 

And when you say 60hp gain, how do you figure?

Not being a dick, just curious.

 

http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?...products_id=34

but then again, 8psi doesnt mean shit. it means different hp for different sized turbos, and im guessing he's probably basing it off the biggest one they've got.

 

He has more info on the nonvtec than for the vtec

 

thats because his favorite motor is the f22a1. he lives by it.

 

So how much is your swap going to cost you? Should be interesting to see!

 

shouldnt be too much. im sure i can get a head from the junkyard for 50. and a h23 IM for 50 or less. or maybe i can lowball some guys on craigslist. but i plan on boosting so ill just do the swap and boost at the same time. i wanna try to piece a turbo kit together for 600$ or less. and since its the non vtec head, i can use DSM turbo parts which can be found everywhere for cheap. so i guess in total, it should be less than 1,000$ to get everything working. maybe a bit more if i run into some shit.

 

i'd be prepared to spend closer to 2000 if I were you. even if u buy parts cheap they might need refurbishing, and ur def gonna need a tune w/some sort of engine management, even if its just neptune on a p28. Also leaves some money for fixing mistakes.

 

$1000 for a target is good, expect to pay twice that