legendaryCL98

is there any mods u can do to that door? the litttle access panel to the trunk? a few years ago, i saw a car with one that has a acura emblem on it.. it looked really cool when the arm rest was out... just woundering if people sell those customized

coolcl

That would be extremely easy....It will look great...thanks for the idea

proaudio22

I'm taking that whole part out. You'll see the middle part of my subs cone right thurr.

legendaryCL98

oh hey... thats a good idea too!

Hobo

yes, that little door is going to be brutally chopped off to reduce rattling any day now

legendaryCL98

it rattles? haha.. your not replacing it with anything?

LLWesMan

Sometimes I pull mine down, my amp is bolted to the back of my box, or right where that spot is, and it lights up which is a nice look.

Mitchel

do you mean that your sub will be facing the inside of your car?

proaudio22

Right. I prefer the sound of a sub in the same airspace as the listener, versus reflected sound from a different airspace. It's not a gauranteed setup, but it looks pretty good so far.

Mitchel

what kind of box do you have. i had a sealed box and tried it facing it towards the inside of my old car (which had fold down seats in the back) and it didnt seem to sound has good as it did facing the back with the echos and all that, but i have never tried it in the cl...i might have to expermint a little.

proaudio22

I'm going to be using a ported box, but that's of little significance here. You have to seal the front of the cabinet to the car - that trunk pass through. The problem with just facing it toward the front is that you now have a muddy mix of reflected and direct sound. You also have to be cafeful that the part infront of the actual cone isn't so large that it creates a bandpass effect. Like I said before, this isn't a gaurunteed thing, but we played around with a test sub and box and saw some promise.

Mitchel

do you mean sealing front of the box to the back wall of the seats so that the air can only go through the "the trunk pass through"

proaudio22

Right, sealed to the pass through.

Mitchel

hmm...that sounds like a good idea...let us know how it turns out!

Hobo

the pass-through seems like it would be too large to acheive the good ported sound effect, although this is ver interesting plz keep us posted

97Cl22

no no no no NO! ALWAYS POINT SUBS TO THE BACK OF THE CAR! No questions asked. Don't seal it to the pass through, dont do anything like that except point them backwards. It is the accoustics of any trunk to point the subs backwards to achieve the best, least distorted sound. There is a reason that every single competition setup you will see in a trunk is facing rearwards. If you have a hatchback thats another story cause your in the same environment as your subs. Having the little passthrough open doesn't constitute being in your subs environment. Get in the trunk. Then your in your subs environment. It sux but its true. You can't have your subs be in your environment if you have a normal trunk.

Slooo97CL

iTrader: (1)

my boy won mad SQ comps with JL subs facing forwards.

97Cl22

Well it was probably for shear sound output as opposed to sound quality.

proaudio22

That is completely false. Do you know anything about car audio or acoustics? Sealing it to the opening is just as good as being in the same enviroment and will have the same sound as a sub in a hatchback or truck/suv (as long as there isn't enough air space in front of the cone behind the passthough to make a bandpass effect). The reason people fire the subs backwards is b/c it's easy and sounds decent, but by no means does it sound waaay better. You also have MUCH more distortion with the subs reflecting from the trunk, not to mention horrible phase issues. Subs firing into the trunk have always sounded muddy to me.

Like I said before, we played around with a test sub/box in this configuration and it showed very promising results. We did not get to seal it very well to the opening, we just made up some quick panels to attach to the test box to kinda give that same effect. The equivilent sound in the cabin of the one 12" sounded just as loud, and much better than two 12"s firing towards the trunk - plus - NO TRUNK RATTLES!

proaudio22

Not doing ported though the opening. The whole front of the box will be firing through the opening. Basically it will be like having the sub inside the car.

30CLstyle

I rememoved my so that I can see my digital Cap and how much power I have in my system

97Cl22

Having a little 12x4" opening is NOTHING like being in a hatchback. No car trunk can match the acoustics of a hatchback. If you sealed the subs to that thing the air wouldn't move very much. It would all get crammed back because that hole isn't big enough to vent all the air the subs move.

neo1

Pretty sure it has something to do with the length of the low frequency wave.....if you could see it, that is....the lower the freq. the longer the wave, like in FEET, so if you face it back it has more space and by the time it reaches the front of the car it's had a chance to "develop"....that's not the right word, but I hope you know what I'm trying to say.

ETA:

The opening really doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things.....the frequencies a sub reproduces go right thru most any seat.

Oh, and a hatch sounds better facing backwards too.....for the same reasons as above.

proaudio22

This is so ridiculous it's almost funny. No car can match the acoustics of a hatch, hah. Hatchbacks don't have any special acoustics, esp at low freqs like this. The only thing it has going for it is the fact the sub is in the same airspace as the listener. It's no diff than a truck or an SUV.

Apparently you didn't take out your tape measure either or it's broken or something. The opening without the plastic piece is 9x16" (144sqin) (until the armrest completely blocks the opening). The face of my box that is going to be sealed to the opening (not the actual size of the box) is going to be 12x16" (192sqin). That leaves a diff of 44sqin. Big deal. It will only need to be 2" from the opening to allow for movement, so that makes the area that is not directly vented 1/6th of a cubic foot. Again, big deal.

That makes even less sense. Let's try some physics here, shall we? We'll assume a speed of sound of say 343m/sec. A 20hz wavelength is 56.266ft long, an 80hz wavelength is 14.067ft. Since we really only need a half length to develop to start getting some phase cancellations - you can cut those in half - but last time I checked our trunk wasn't 7+ft long. You cannot "bend" a wave either so no funky reflective business here either.

neo1

No, the trunk doesn't add 7 feet, but it does add the distance from the sub to the back of the trunk, and the distance from the back of the trunk to where you Front-Facing sub WOULD be, to the total distance travelled.....which is why it sounds better by the time it reaches your ears.

No funky reflective business? Since when do sound waves NOT reflect? Yes, it DOES matter.

Try your front-facing way.....then get out of the car and stand next to the corner of your bumper. Bet it sounds better there than in the front seat.

proaudio22

Lol, you can't add the distance. You can't bend a wave. A wave will only travel in a straight line from the source until it reaches a surface that it cannot penetrate, and it will reflect off of. Your logic here makes zero sense. The reflecting waves add total distace from the listener, but do not have anything to do with the length there is to develop even a half-wave. Those reflected waves only make a ton of nasty phase problems (most of which contribute to the inhernt muddyness of rear firing subs in a car) from the different path lengths of the refections to the listener.

We did try this out, the test box had a larger face than planned, so we couldn't fit it in quite as tight, and the plastic piece was still in. It sounded pretty nice, except for some sound that leaked into the trunk b/c it wasn't sealed really (we just had wood trim all around the box front and butted it up to the opening). How was the sound at the rear bumper? There wasn't any hardly at all. You could put your hand on the trunk lid and couldn't feel a thing. That's part of why I like this design, no trunk rattles.

You guys should really stop and look at what you are posting. If you only knew how silly it was...I'm gonna print this out and take it in to the shop, I'm sure the guys will get a kick outa this.

97Cl22

Proaudio, you sound like a number-puncher to me. You always have the facts and the physics but have you ever been in a car with a system? There are so many variables you can't sit here and quote off numbers like they mean something. Sure they are a nice gauge, but get in a hatchback with a system, then get in a normal car with the same system. The hatchbacks have so much more freespace for the sub to push the air around in. It has nothing to do really (soundwise) with being in the same environment. The only thing being in its environment is gonna do is give you the feel of the subs as well as the sound. The fact that the sub is useing the entire airspace of the car makes the acoustics of a hatchback better, as opposed to using a little box of a trunk for airspace. The air is more free and the sound is less distored.

Slooo97CL

iTrader: (1)

i always faced my subs backwards and they always have sounded better...

97Cl22

just that simple. Face them backwards and they will sound better. We got a little sidetracked there with all our bickering.

Slooo97CL

iTrader: (1)

everyone i ever knew faced the subs to the rear hatchback, truck, van, car, mower...the sub faced backwards.

proaudio22

That's BULLSHIT.

It's sounds better b/c it's harder to fuck up. All rear facing applications have the same phase problems and all sound about the same. You guys simply don't know any better, don't want to know any better, and haven't heard any better. Just because you have never heard a good forward firing system doesn't mean it can't be done. Ignorance is bliss. WHAT THE FUCK EVER.

I take back what I said about people on this board being intelligent. "Proaudio doesn't know wtf he's talking about, he just works with this shit all the time and studies electro-acoustics. He must be a dumbass that doesn't know what he's talking about. His buddy, the owner of one of the best local shops, and his other guys don't know shit about car audio. They just won 1st place for the last decade or so around here outa sheer luck."

proaudio22

So everyone you know is a product of comformity. mkay.

Slooo97CL

iTrader: (1)

im still keeping my subs faced backwards sorry guy

proaudio22

Wasn't trying to change anyones mind. I was simply telling a posted waaay back at the beginning of the post what I was doing with my opening. We tried it, it worked, sounded better and louder than facing the trunk. I tried to expain how this works and why, but 97Cl22 doesn't want to talk about numbers, facts, or experience - just bullshit he thinks is right.

Slooo97CL

iTrader: (1)

proaudio22

Hey, AOL sucks, what else is new?

con·form·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-fôrm-t)
n. pl. con·form·i·ties
1. Similarity in form or character; agreement: I acted in conformity with my principles.
2. Action or behavior in correspondence with socially accepted standards, conventions, rules, or laws: conformity to university regulations.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conformity

proaudio22

Hey now you are sorta catching on. It really doesn't have anything to do with the airspace, and everything to do with being in the same enviroment. It matters that it is direct sound, not reflected. It lessens phase issues with the same exact sound arriving multiple times b/c there are multiple path lengths. Yes, the sound is less distorted.

97Cl22

Now I'm catchin on? I was trying to explain why it sounds better to put subs backwards in a trunk. I never said anything to the contrary of this statement before. I stand by my argument that facing subs backwards in a trunk will ALWAYS sound better than front facing. Sure you can make front facing sound good too, but a good designed rear facing system will always sound better than a good designed front facing system.

Sacramento CL

Well, going back to original theme of this thread, here's the best mod for the little door: put a keg in the back and run the tap into the back seat. Cheers!!

97Cl22

yeah just get a keg. Screw subs