lindros2

*NEW* GM cars aren't bad. I rent Cadillac and Chevy cars just about weekly, and have been pleasantly surprised (the last-gen CTS4 was a drivetrain disaster and CUE is crap, but on the quality side, they've been pretty good). Buick still has some quality oddballs (have to cut $$ somewhere), but overall GM is on the upswing.

Acura was also on the upswing (or consistent trajectory) until I hit the 2014 MDX. I never liked the 3G TL - it was seriously designed first for a Chinese consumer (see first leaked photo of the interior/navigation buttons with Chinese letters - AND compare to recent China-first designs like the new Buick SUV and VW Lamando mid-size sedan). But you can't lump "design" and "quality" into one bucket...

dysonlu

Which has nothing to do with reliability, IIRC. Give sources if you believe otherwise.

It seems to me you are mixing things and bringing stuff out of context to advance your point.

lindros2

How is JD Power (owner surveys) initial quality not in context?

What I didn't bring in was the numerous recalls, navigation system hardware replacement (because, apparently, Acura reverted to hardware replacement in lieu of software updates), terrible touchscreen performance, Bluetooth issues, unusable voice recognition (now that many operations are disabled while in motion), suspension issues, headliner glue coming loose/undone, windshield cracks, side window glass chips, wheel well plastic popping loose, HD antenna issues, etc.

And this is just my vehicle.

Search. The. Forums.

It's not on every car, but there are serious issues emanating out of Alabama. And do you think that the 65%-USA-content TLX will be immune?

Check back here.

lindros2

Sources:

mdxers.org forums ("Software Bugs", "2014 mdx issues", "List of things you don't like about MDX 2014")

JDPower: http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Ac.../SUV/index.htm

Owner video (on car lot):
http://www.post-gazette.com/business...s/201401020095

RosieQ

Makes a difference whether you are looking to lease or buy. I've always found BMW to be amazing at subsidizing their leases. They have the occasional Un4gettable drive event, Ultimate Drive Event etc with a $1000 lease credit, add another $500-1000 credit for BMW CCA 3 vs 5 series, high residuals and a well negotiated lease gets downright cheap. I'm leasing a $45,000 3 series for just under $400 per month with no money down, 12k miles per year. When I was shopping around that's better than offers I was getting on V6 Honda Accords. Right now the TLX deals aren't quite as good, but the prior TLs with the nice subsidies were also really good at the end of the life cycle.

The equation can really shift though when it comes to buying. German cars have residual values that tank (look at market values for 2004-2008 BMW, Mercedes vs the TL for example). First you pay more for the german car to drive it off the lot, then you pay more for maintenance, then ultimately the TL is worth 10k more on the used market 10 years later. $5,000 S class anyone?

All this to say that the initial purchase price is only part of the equation, and total ownership cost is perhaps the less discussed but more important variable.

When I was looking at cars a year ago (and when I'm back in the market 2 years from now), I'll cross shop the TLX with the BMW 3 and 5 series, Infiniti Q50, Lexus IS 250 if they put in a turbo 4 engine as many expect them to do, and the Tesla Model III if it's out in 2016-2017 as promised. I'll probably look at the Honda Accord too if they do a life cycle refresh and take the glittery cheap plastic off from around the radio.

lindros2

Acura/Honda lease rates are tough to beat if you can negotiate well.

BMW always requires additional cash to bring the monthly down.

Audi leases have become *very* expensive. I would only buy an A3, knowing the risk of a new car (although the platform has been around a couple of years).

internalaudit

How are Euro car makers on lease wear and tear? It seems in Canada, they are also advertising wear and tear insurance whereas Honda/Acura doesn't.

Team Banzai

Think I'm pulling the Q50 off my list. The problems continue to grow and for the money I don't see how they are keeping them at that price. So now I think I'm comparing the TLX to a CPO 2013 M37. Pricewise they are about the same.

Tonyware

The front on the hood is definitely something very odd. However the doors may be not. In every Honda/Acura product i have owned its the same story... the doors stick a bit out (I am talking about so small you need to really pay attention). Reason? Avoid rust on the "dog leg" fender. Whether it has proven useful or not, well, probably not. My 98 and 03 Accords had that door sticking out a bit but after 8-9 years rust appeared on the rear.

As far as the original topic goes... was impressed with the new Subaru WRX. Not because of the interior or exterior but because of the way it drives. A driver's car. I think I can live without brake-hold or 2 screens.... as long as I can have a shifter to play with!

Tonyware

^ can't edit after a few minutes... just to add: I am still placing #1 the SAWD TLX advance when it makes it to Canada and people experience no major issues in the first 20k-30k km. Silver/black, if possible.

boe_d

WOW that is very disappointing. One of the reasons I like my TL so much is it seemed like they put a lot of care into building it. This looks like design flaws more than just assembly flaws. I guess we'll know if more videos / reports like this show up.

Stew4HD

I had several fitment issues on my GS350 like that.

KeithL

I loved my M37S. Had it 38 months and 45K miles. Very reliable, but the tech is antiquated. Beautiful riding car, the engine is a bit raspy. I wish the 15 Q70 had a new head unit and I would get one easily.

boe_d

That's very disappointing, sorry to hear that. I'd think with all the computer aided design, cars would be outstanding by now.

LiQiCE

Wow you had a real lemon of a GS. Maybe it was first model year woes or something because my 2014 has very good fitment and I don't have issues with wind noise and stuff either like you've mentioned.

My MDX fitment seems very good too. But I did have 3 issues with the car in the first week of ownership (off center steering, hood latch not closing right so alarm would not arm, roof molding needed to be replaced). I attribute a lot of these problems to the change in factories more than it being a first year model though.

Stew4HD

I had fitment issues with my 4G and had the dealer adjust them. The top of grill to hood, hood to fender and drivers door needed a little tweaking. Nothing major and was okay after.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Another car for the shortlist:



I realize Jags aren't everybody's thing, but they're worth a look. The new ones will change your mind of what you knew about them. Driving the F-type shocked me, like no other Jag I've ever driven. This company really IS going towards a new direction and I'm liking it. As I said a couple pages back, I was pleasantly surprised by the XF too. Once you drive it, you'll realize it is feels more sporty than it looks. It's just bigger than I need and I wanted something smaller. So this XE is a mini version of it and seems to be more on the sporty side aiming at the 3-series. Sounds like exactly what I wanted.

Jags aren't exactly the best value but they are not the worst either. They offer generous option packages that end up cheaper than the nickel and diming BMW and MB do that jacks up the price sky-high with options.

Best of all this company is remaining bold and moving forward while still retaining charm. It is taking chances with it's styling without going overboard and overstyled/aggressive/angry looking. Also their interiors are top notch. Getting away from that wooden captain of the ship look and towards modern elegance and maintaining design aesthetic and a premium feel. And now they are starting to inject better tech finally.

I know some are saying when Acura goes towards bland or innovative people don't like it. (i.e. 2GTL compared to 4GTL) Of course they don't like it if they go to 2 different extremes. It's not about complaining no matter what the outcome. Yes there are different tastes but there is a medium and balance that is not easy to strike. Jaguar is an example that is striking it just about right. Just look at that beautiful F-type.

The 2 things that are keeping me from the XE 1) I doubt it will come in a manual (F-type still only has paddles. It's been decades since a Jag manual) Not totally a deal breaker but I was really wanting to do a manual this time around. 2) Reliability - a sore point for TOO many years. This is the main thing keeping most people away from this brand. Supposedly the last couple years they have gotten much better, (XF has been OK of late) but I dunno about that, especially with a new model like the XE.

I'm putting it on the short list, let's see. I look forward to a test drive.

Stew4HD

The new jags look great!

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Edit: They are actually indicating there WILL be a manual gearbox option on the Jaguar XE.....hope they don't back track on that or make it Euro spec only. Imagine that paired with a 320hp turbo six.

ostrich

I thought I was pretty much set with the TLX, until last night.... I went to the Lexus NX event at my local dealership last night.... oh my goodness, the NX looked HOT! I have to say that the photos did not do it justice at all. In the photos, it looked like a Transformer style ridiculous mess, but in reality, it looked really great! The vehicle they had was a Japanese prototype in Matador Red - oh my goodness, that thing was hot! The interior was its strongest point though. It was simple, modern and yet very stylish. It blew the likes of X3, Q5, RDX etc out of the water!!!

If the NX drives as well as how it looks, it may just get to the top of my shopping list. However, it is not available until after my current lease is up.... hmm....

internalaudit

Do these CUV's handle as well as their sedan/coupe counterparts? My wife wants a CUV/SUV, I told her "over my dead body".

Are coefficient of drag and weight the only negatives?

ostrich

In my opinion, they do NOT handle as well as their sedan counterparts. Originally, I really wanted something with more utility, so I was leaning towards these CUV's. However, after test driving most of them (X3, Q5, RDX, MDX, RX, etc.) I decided that I probably should just stick with a sedan, because none of them performs as well as a similarly sized sedan... the centre of gravity was high and so they all have more body roll which I could not stand.... that's when I decided to look at the TLX. That said, I get the occasional temptation to look at these CUV's again, just because of their utility.

BTW, the perfect vehicle would have been a TLX sport wagon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just in case you wonder - I did test drive the 2015 Subaru Outback - its suspension is way too soft and the body roll is not good at all. The 2014 BMW 3 series Touring is nice, but the space is tight and I worry about the reliability issues of BMW. While the diesel version is very sensible, it is loud and noisy. It also is rather slow. The 2014 Audi Allroad looks great, but the space is even tighter than a 3 series Touring, and at that high price, you can NOT even get heated steering wheel. Nope, even if you want to pay for it it is NOT even an option!!! Yikes.... oh, and the 4 cylinder engine of the Audi is just rather unrefined and it does not match its price tag.

internalaudit

Oh, yeah, I forgot about the center of gravity.

Good to know. I told my wife our next car will likely be a 2-3 year old used TSX V6 SH-AWD Advanced (anticipating 30-40% savings as V6 don't sell as well in the used car market here in Toronto) or maybe a brand new Tesla Gen 3, if Musk is able to get this car selling at $35k in 2017/18.

Acura/Honda for reliability. Even our 2011 Accord coupe still drives decently well and even as stock and AT, can handle curvy roads/exits.

Quandry

I test drove an 2015 Audi Q3 Quattro (baby CUV) on a cone marked slalom course and we were encouraged to try and push it to the limits. I am not weekend warrior and my self preservation gave out before the car. Hardly any body roll and it held the track like it was on rails. It is more than sufficient for an average plus driver.

If she wants a CUV this one should be seriously considered, and pricing is very good.

Strippers4Me

My 2cents...


As a loyal Honda/Acura owner for the past 30ish years, I think my direction next time will be back to Honda.


I'm just not seeing the "bang for the buck" in the TLX or ILX and I don't see a need for an SUV like most of America.


With 2 '12s in my garage I'm not in a real big hurry and I do love the two we have Sportwagon is all I want an more, yes of course I would have liked a few more features/options but for the money it is the car to have. The TL with the AWD is just amazing, most here want a "sports car" but the TL is a pig, a big heavy sedan, and it rides and handles as such but it does handle well and rides great.


Now on to the Honda, I have drove Honda Accord coupes for years, I think at least four different gens (not counting mid cycle refresh) and the Coupe should almost be branded an Acura in the V6 form, but with going to Acura a few years back I still miss my Coupe, and the value for the $ it brings to the table.


So Acura, if you want to keep the faithful;


1) SPORT models
2) COUPE
3) LOSE the woodgrain and all the "grey hair" stuff (I'm 54 and would NEVER buy a car with wood grain anything)
4) expand your model line up with a 3 door or new Sportwagon 5 door


It is time for Honda/Acura to step up and lead again and not just try to keep up with the Lexus/Toyota, Infinity/Nissan and now the Hyundai. For years Honda stood for quality, price, mileage and fun to drive. Now my fit and finish on my TL is CRAP, the mileage is not too good and such and since the TSX Sportwagon is just a rebadged Honda from Japan... Honda and save myself $10k


No haters, just my opinion from years of seat time and way too many cars to count. I used to have three cars I rotated on trade so one new one each year after 3yrs about 50k (I drove a lot).


One more final shot... to all the "I'm gonna get a BMW, MB and or Audi" they are fun until your first paid service and or warranty runs out. I've also found that warranty issues are handled much better in the Honda/Acura world than the others, and don't eve get me started on Porsche.


So in closing, Honda, I do love your products but STOP making them so fucking OLD peoplecentric, yes I'm not driving a hopped up Civic these days but I also don't want a Buick (even though they are a great bang for the buck these days)... Oldsmobile?

Quandry

Wow! Glad you got that off your chest.

But seriously, this is what life is about and we are all happy that there are choices but sometimes we have to make compromises. At least there is still something in the Honda brand for you.