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hahaha well, that's what some people say.....that it will needs its own platform, preferably a longitudinally mounted engine, RWD, V8....etc...
Well I am ok calling the TLS/CLS a glorified Accord. But at least they were still glorified. If the old Acuras were Honda+, then what you call the current Acura? Honda- ?
Highly subjective but the best Acura period was 2004-2006, US sales were ~200k/year (almost 210k in 2005).
Great lineup: 1G MDX, 3G TL, 1G TSX, 2G RL, heck even the old 1G NSX and 1G RSX were in there (although both badly in need of redesign).
as I said earlier, some of the current Acura's aren't even Honda+.....
One sure way to make Acura > Honda is to use RWD platforms for Acura vehicles, while Honda remains to be FWD.
But it's not gonna happen.
Therefore Acura will still be Honda+ forever, no matter how many iterations of interior concept and/or exterior concept Acura has gone through or will be going through.
One sure way to make Acura > Honda is to use RWD platforms for Acura vehicles, while Honda remains to be FWD.
But it's not gonna happen.
Therefore Acura will still be Honda+ forever, no matter how many iterations of interior concept and/or exterior concept Acura has gone through or will be going through.
there has been discussion of going all SH-AWD which i would prefer of RWD platforms personally.
subaru puts AWD in every car they make... But have you seen how cheap they are? Shit paint, spartan interiors, but, you get a nice drivetrain.
if Acura is ok raising its price point on all cars, then so be it. I think they will lose customer base that way. There are plenty of people now who don't buy the AWD variants and a lot of times it boils down to price.
But Acura better not up the drivetrain and reduce everything else. That would be brutal.
Going RWD is one way, but not the only way. Audi has been pretty successful without RWD chassis other than the R8. I feel that proportions, exterior styling, interior design, materials, powertrains, technologies, are all important to separate Honda models from Acura models.
Even if Acura goes RWD, if it keeps the same infotainment system, same exterior design with slightly better proportions, same level of features, same level of interior quality, same J series, I doubt that it will go very far.
Globally, maybe. US, no. Audi would not have survived this long if not because of Audi's global presence.
Acura on the other hand does not have that kind of cards in its sleeves. So if they follow Audi, they will fail.
Going RWD is one way, but not the only way. Audi has been pretty successful without RWD chassis other than the R8. I feel that proportions, exterior styling, interior design, materials, powertrains, technologies, are all important to separate Honda models from Acura models.
Even if Acura goes RWD, if it keeps the same infotainment system, same exterior design with slightly better proportions, same level of features, same level of interior quality, same J series, I doubt that it will go very far.
Audi is "pretty successful" only when compared to Acura.
But Audi never enjoys the same REAL success as BMW and MB.
In terms of similarities, all Audi, BMW, and MB are premium European brands, as well as having a huge variety of vehicle lineups.
However, the major difference between Audi and BMW/MB is the lack of RWD platform for the Audi brand.
Being in the same boat as the Acura brand with the same FWD handicap, any high-power FWD Audi vehicles will have no choice but to exist in the costly, heavy, and power-robbing AWD format; unlike BMW/MB which is able to come up with simple and low-cost RWD base vehicles and with RWD-based AWD as an available option.
There is still a considerable gap between BMW/MB and Audi in terms of class-prestige level and vehicle sales volume.
As a result, if Acura remains to be a FWD vehicle auto company and when it has a similar extended vehicle lineups as the FWD Audi brand, it can only be as "pretty successful" as Audi, and not the REAL success as with the luxury BMW and MB brands.
I can understand where you are coming from. Though Audi was really bad in the 80's and 90's with its reliability issue. It takes decades to rebuild the brand image, the reputation, etc.
As such, I'm not 100% convinced that Audi is not doing as well because it's FWD base. May be that's the case.
And all of these are comparison tests between the performance versions too, which should make FWD based cars worse. Yet, Audi won most, if not all of them.
Not saying going RWD is not smart for Acura, rather, just saying that perhaps there's a way for Acura to stay FWD base and still be doing much better than now (which in all fairness isn't a high requirement).
As you see, even when the above mentioned high-end Quattro Audi vehicles have won most tests, but still unable to win the heart and soul of luxury vehicle buyers from purchasing BMW and MB (losers according to the tests but winners according to overall annual sale figures) instead; then there must be something fundamentally inferior about Audi products when compared to BMW and MB.
Doesn't it ring the bell ? Ding ! Ding ! Ding !
It's the sole FWD and FWD-based-AWD platforms used by the Audi brand as well as the Acura brand.
Profits at Toyota and Honda dealerships are growing, while stores selling the Lexus, Audi, Infiniti and Acura luxury brands are seeing double-digit profit declines this year, estimates by Haig Partners show.
Nissan and Acura dealers experienced the biggest declines, the calculations, included in the quarterly Haig Report, show.
This is the 1st time such data has been published, said Alan Haig, president of buy-sell advisory firm Haig Partners in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. His company calculated the figures using raw data from NCM Associates, and plans to do so regularly from now on.
"This visibility into earnings will give owners, buyers and sellers insight into what they should be doing," Haig said. It can also spark conversation between dealers and automakers on ways to improve, he said.
"If you're a Nissan dealer and the factory is critical of your performance, you don't really know how your store is performing compared to other dealers," Haig said. "They can now look at this and say, "Nissan, your business model is netting dealers about $1 million a year, but Toyota and Honda dealers are netting $2.5 to $2.1 million.'"
Haig's team took performance figures from NCM, which analyzes monthly financial and operating data from more than 4,100 dealerships, and annualized January-September results. The team then adjusted each brand's performance for the average store size in new-unit sales as published by Automotive News, vs. the average store size that reports to NCM, and eliminated fleet sales. Haig Partners only included franchises for which it had data on at least 100 dealerships or 20 percent of that franchise's total U.S. dealerships.
Some of the results were surprising. For example, despite strong consumer demand for trucks, domestic brands saw declines in year-over-year profits.
Jaguar/Land Rover reported the highest profit per franchise: $3.3 million. Because Land Rover, as a small niche brand, can "make more profits off each car and their expense structure is lower, they can net more profit," Haig said.
Overall, estimated year-over-year profits on luxury brands were down for two reasons: consumers' shifts to trucks, and high inventory problems causing dealers to sell cars at a discount.
The low-volume, low-gross-profit-per-unit model appears to be failing, Haig said. "That's Mazda, Kia and Hyundai," he said. "Sales per location are not high, and profit per car is not high. We all knew that, but it's good to see actual data per franchise."
As you see, even when the above mentioned high-end Quattro Audi vehicles have won most tests, but still unable to win the heart and soul of luxury vehicle buyers from purchasing BMW and MB (losers according to the tests but winners according to overall annual sale figures) instead; then there must be something fundamentally inferior about Audi products when compared to BMW and MB.
Doesn't it ring the bell ? Ding ! Ding ! Ding !
It's the sole FWD and FWD-based-AWD platforms used by the Audi brand as well as the Acura brand.
Which goes back to what I was saying, that Audi's reputation was really bad in the 80's 90's with its reliability issue.
BMW (branded as BMW since 1913) and MB (branded as MB since 1926) also have much longer history than Audi (branded as Audi since 1985).
The above two are the areas Audi is inferior at. Perhaps being FWD base is one reason too, but I definitely can't ignore other possible reasons.
With that said, based on the charts from AZuser, including the North American sales chart, it looks to me that Audi is gradually increasing its share. From 15% in 2006 to 22.1% in 2015.
For reference purposes, the lease payment on an A4 (well equipped) is about the same as a 340 with similar packages. or you can lease a fucking M5 for the same $ as an S6. (competitor with 550i)
So it is kinda obvious where the problem is with Audi.
And add to the fact that Audi has already surpassed BMW and MB in Europe, I'm really not convinced that going FWD base is such a terrible idea.
Powered by both cars and trucks, American Honda and the Honda Division set new November sales records
American Honda and Honda Division trucks also set new November sales marks
Compacts lead, with Fit gaining 43 percent and HR-V soaring 132 percent above year ago levels
MDX sets November pace for Acura while RDX gets new November record
Acura NSX reaches another milestone
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported total November sales of 122,924 Honda and Acura vehicles, an increase of 6.5 percent versus November of last year to set a new November record. American Honda trucks gained 9.9 percent for a new November record on sales of 62,737 units. Honda Division overall vehicle sales also set a new November mark of 111,308 units, rising 7.9 percent. Acura Division sales held fairly steady in November, totaling 11,616 units for a decrease of 5.1 percent.
Honda
Continuing to buck the industry trend, Honda car sales helped push the brand to a new November record. Fit and Accord led the way for Honda cars, with strong support from Civic. Honda truck sales maintained strong momentum with a new November record as HR-V jumped in triple digits and both CR-V and the new Ridgeline had strong sales performances.
Honda Division sales rose 7.9 percent on sales of 111,308 for a new November record.
Honda cars gained 5.6 percent on sales of 56,943 units, while trucks increased 10.3 percent on sales of 54,365 units for a new November record.
Accord, recently named one of Car & Driver magazine's 10 Best cars for a record 31st time, enjoyed a robust gain of 6.3 percent on sales of 27,182 units.
HR-V sales totaled 8,141 in November, a remarkable 132 percent increase.
Civic sales topped 25,000 for the month, gaining 1 percent and keeping Civic on track to set an all-time annual sales mark in December.
"Considering the continued consumer appetite for trucks and SUVs, we're excited to see Honda cars resonate so well with our customers," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "This is especially gratifying considering the strength of our light truck lineup, as we continue to hit on all cylinders with individual retail buyers."
Acura
Acura light trucks continued to show sales muscle, with MDX leading the month of November for the brand and RDX recording best-ever November sales. On the car side, RLX showed an uptick while NSX reached a new milestone.
Acura trucks continued on pace to top 2015, gaining 7.6 percent with sales of 8,372 units in November.
Sales of the redesigned MDX rose 13 percent on sales of 4,622 for the month.
RDX had its best November sales to date, rising 1.6 percent on sales of 3,750 vehicles.
RLX sales moved up slightly in November, gaining 16.7 percent on sales of 140 units.
Reaching another milestone, the custom-crafted NSX supercar has topped 200 customer deliveries since sales commenced in May.
"Strong sales of the new Acura MDX demonstrate that our design direction and focus on performance is the right path for the Acura brand," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division. "With the NSX and the MDX leading the way, we will take our entire lineup toward Acura's Precision Crafted Performance DNA."
I saw my first 2017 MDX on the road last week. It was black and looked really badass.
I've always wondered how that worked. All the dealers near me are open Sunday.
really?? I've seen quite a few already. Someone on my street also has one. That new grille is much better looking IMO..and glad to have exhaust tips back...lol
NAIAS press conference schedule was announced today. Honda has an announcement on 1/9 at noon but Acura has nothing scheduled. It's too bad, no new product to announce.
CR users rank ILX and RLX among least satisfying cars
ILX (2016) is at the very bottom of the list, with 41% saying they'd buy again. RLX is 9th least satisfying with 50% saying they'd buy again. OUCH for Acura, and how far they've fallen. I know I responded to the survey so my data is in there somewhere. Data released on 12/22.
Here's hoping Acura can get its act together for its sedans. To be ranked at the bottom with Fiat/Chrysler has to be humiliating and heads had better be rolling in Torrance.
ILX (2016) is at the very bottom of the list, with 41% saying they'd buy again. RLX is 9th least satisfying with 50% saying they'd buy again. OUCH for Acura, and how far they've fallen. I know I responded to the survey so my data is in there somewhere. Data released on 12/22.
Here's hoping Acura can get its act together for its sedans. To be ranked at the bottom with Fiat/Chrysler has to be humiliating and heads had better be rolling in Torrance.
Not much I have to say about the RLX, other than I told you so. And whether people here want to say my experiences were subjective or that I should have done my homework on this forum first before buying one (I actually choose to use my prior experience with a brand as my realworld "homework"), the sales number and consumer sentiment over the RLX proves what I was saying all along.
What's interesting is seeing the ILX where it's at. It's been a great car for my wife, including the previous 2013 we had. I moved into one in June after returning the RLX only because it was going to cost me alot to leave the brand after all the negative residual and mile overage (8k) I had on my RLX. Otherwise I'd already be with Audi for good.
The ILX is very fun, has all the same tech that my RLX Advanced had, and the build quality is much closer to the Acura I remember and expected with my RLX. But I do agree with all the things CR (and their users providing data) are saying. It all comes back to Acura simply releasing sedans that are just "ok", which just doesn't work in the luxury market.
That said, a monthly lease payment of $375 vs $980 makes it much easier to live with the things that werent done well. And soeaks to Acura's biggest problem. Their primary buyers are buyers looking for a bargain. That is the problem. You cant be a true successful luxury car company when all you are seen as is a "good deal".
Last edited by holografique; 12-25-2016 at 07:35 AM.
^^^^
Yup. You did say so, you were right, and it appears a majority of RLX owners in the real world agree with you.
The ILX's issue is that the new Civic beats it in style and somewhat in tech right now, and the Civic is simply a better deal.
I have a decision to make about my lease, too. If I finish it, it'll take an amazingly, astonishingly, good deal to keep me in an Acura newer than my 1999 NSX.
http://acuranews.com/acura-automobiles/releases/-american-honda-sets-all-time-sales-records-powered-by-demand-for-cars-and-trucksAmerican Honda Sets All-Time Sales Records Powered by Demand for Cars and Trucks
Honda & Acura vehicles combined to break all-time annual sales record, up 6.4 percent over last year's record while combined trucks captured new annual and monthly records, rising 5.6 percent for the year and 17.4 percent in December
Honda Division sales set new annual total vehicle record: up 4.8 percent over last year's record, plus all-time best monthly truck sales, gaining 19 percent over the 2015 record
Honda CR-V sets new annual and monthly sales records as America's best-selling SUV
Civic breaks annual record with strong support from new Hatchback
Acura trucks record best month in history, up 8.9 percent versus last year
Acura RDX streaks to best-ever annual and monthly totals, gaining 2.6 percent for the year and 20.3 percent in December
TORRANCE, Calif. – American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported an all-time annual sales record of 1,637,942 Honda and Acura vehicles for 2016, an increase of 3.2 percent to eclipse the company's previous best set in 2015. AHM also set new annual and monthly total truck sales records, gaining 5.6 percent on sales of 813,243 units for the year, and 17.4 percent in December on sales of 85,568. Honda Division sales also set a new annual record, rising 4.8 percent on sales of 1,476,582 vehicles in 2016, as well as a new December record, gaining 6.9 percent on sales of 143,329 units. Honda trucks set new all-time best annual and monthly marks, gaining 6.7 percent on sales of 705,387 for the year, and 19 percent on sales of 73,380 for December. Honda cars were up 3.1 percent for the year on sales of 771,195 units. Acura car and truck sales totaled 17,148 in December, up 1.9 percent over the same month last year. Acura total annual sales reached 161,360 in 2016, down 8.9 percent for the year. However, Acura trucks set a new all-time monthly record in December, gaining 8.9 percent on sales of 12,188 vehicles.
"2016 was a very rewarding year for American Honda in which we set a second consecutive all-time sales record while maintaining our unique focus on retail sales to individual buyers," said John Mendel, executive vice president of the Automobile Division of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "We are going to build on this success with a continued focus on strong products and sound sales strategies that increase quality and value for our customers."
Honda
The Honda Division recorded new all-time and monthly records while two core models set all-time annual and a monthly record for the Honda Division. Further, the Civic, Accord and CR-V combined to easily surpass 1 million units in 2016 for the 4th consecutive year, and a December sales flourish for the Ridgeline and the recently-released Civic Hatchback made for an exciting close of a successful year.
Honda Division sales set a new annual total vehicle record, up 4.8 percent over last year's record on sales of 1,476,582.
Honda trucks also set a new annual mark, breaking the 2015 record with an increase of 6.7 percent on sales of 705,387 for the year, while setting a new all-time best monthly record, jumping 19 percent on sales of 73,380 units in December.
CR-V, America's best-selling SUV, set new all-time annual and monthly records: with sales for the year at 357,335, a 3.4 percent gain, and December sales of 37,778 for a 21.1 percent leap to grab its best month in history. CR-V sales got an end-of-year boost as the all-new 2017 model went on sale in the last 10 days of December.
The new Ridgeline had its best sales month since its debut last spring, with 4,085 units sold in December.
With Civic setting an all-time annual sales mark of 366,927 (up 9.4 percent) the new Civic Hatchback made a splash in December, contributing over 4,000 sales for the month.
HR-V sales jumped dramatically in 2016, gaining 95.5 percent over 2015 on sales of 82,041 units. HR-V was also up 90.7 percent in December on sales of 9,034 vehicles.
"It was an amazing year for the Honda brand with our product lineup full of industry best models," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president & general manager of the Honda Division. "Our strong December also builds momentum for 2017 which is shaping up to be another great year as still more new Honda products will give customers exciting new choices."
Acura
Acura Division sales in December topped 2015 with positive contributions from both cars and trucks. RDX had a best-ever year and month, while MDX enjoyed its best sales month of 2016, pushing Acura trucks to a new all-time record month. Despite declining luxury sedan sales in the U.S., TLX sales were up and RLX made a notable gain in December. Continuing its steady production ramp up, the second-generation NSX supercar had its best month to date.
Acura trucks recorded best-ever monthly sales, gaining 8.9 percent on sales of 12,188 units.
Total Acura truck sales exceeded 100,000 units for the third year in a row.
RDX set a new all-time monthly sales record, jumping 20.3 percent on sales of 5,945 vehicles, as well as a new annual benchmark, rising 2.6 percent on sales of 52,361 units.
MDX sales in 2016 topped 50,000 units for the fifth straight year, helping extend its reign as the all-time best-selling luxury three-row SUV in America.
Acura sold 68 NSX supercars in December, its best month since sales began last spring.
"With Acura trucks leading the way and the TLX performing strongly in a challenging market for sedans, we were able to finish our 30th anniversary year on a strong note," said Jon Ikeda, vice president & general manager of the Acura division. "We're excited to carry this momentum, with a strong future vision for Acura, into the new year."
Overall sales of the RLX are down 32.7 % vs last year. End of year deals and selling 30 more cars than last dec does NOT mean they are doing good/not vanilla.
It's a common refrain from dealer networks: Give us more products to flesh out our lineups.
But unlike most of its leather-lined competitors in the luxury segment -- particularly Mercedes-Benz and BMW -- Acura has substantial gaps in its lineup.
"As a dealer body we're looking for, when a customer comes in the doors, the ability to show them something more than 4 vehicles," said Jim Morino, owner of Acura of Lynnwood in Lynnwood, Wash., and chairman of the Acura National Dealer Advisory Board.
That includes the ILX and TLX sedans and the RDX and MDX crossovers (the larger RLX sedan and the NSX supercar are considered nonstarters by many dealers because of their low volumes).
The question is how to fill those gaps.
The leading candidate would be a U.S. version of the CDX small crossover that Acura sells in China. "The dealer body has requested that we get something like that for the American market," Morino said.
Acura also plans derivatives of existing platforms over the next several years, but it remains to be seen whether that's something like a coupe variant or a high-performance line, Morino said.
Regardless of what Acura introduces, the vehicle will need to sell. Acura dealers care less about what the product is than how well it will sell -- 25,000 vehicles a year is the bare minimum.
Said Morino: "We really don't want to invest the capital in something that's going to be another 10,000- to 12,000-unit-a-year vehicle."
Regardless of what Acura introduces, the vehicle will need to sell. Acura dealers care less about what the product is than how well it will sell -- 25,000 vehicles a year is the bare minimum.
Said Morino: "We really don't want to invest the capital in something that's going to be another 10,000- to 12,000-unit-a-year vehicle."
In other words, they're saying Acura should kill the ILX.
In other words, they're saying Acura should kill the ILX.
Yah but how do they expect to increase the sales # if they do not invest? because we all know based on their current products, it will only go down even more.
They should seriously just consider cutting their losses. Acura's been killed off in HK, introduced and discontinued in two years in Russia... they can just offer even more options on existing Hondas because that's basically what Acura has been boiled down to.
Dealers want more vehicles to fill out their lineup but Acura doesn't know how to or simply refuses to market their $50k+ offerings, and so they fall flat in the sales department.
Hmm. I hadn't been paying attention to what was in the Acura lineup after they killed off the TSX and TL... I didn't realize they basically has 4 vehicles. That really doesn't seem very sustainable. I wonder if they really would consider killing the marque and absorbing the lineup into Honda. Or just switching to a SUV-only marque like Dodge did with RAM, if that's where all the demand/profits are.
It'll be interesting to see how Toyota does with the post-Scion transition and if it would be a strong hint for Honda.
11-16-2016, 01:13 PM
AutoNews
Dec 2016
Like i said, selling 30 more cars than last year at that time is NOT cause to celebrate when you are talking less than 200 to begin with.
