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Oil drain plug was stripped by some crappy lube place. I tried to tap the oil pan with an oversize plug, but it didn't work well. The car is up on stands, j-pipe is off, and i'm having a problem with getting the bolts on the right(Passenger side) off the oil pan, frame/ lower suspension seems to be ALL IN MY WAY. Is there some sort of special way to get around this, special tools of some kind maybe?
Thanks for all the comments and help fellas! The job took awhile..5-6hrs lol. It was my first oil pan replacement. That being said I do have a few tips.
When under the car it is virtually impossible to get those 3 nuts on the passenger side off. Pop your front passenger side wheel off, and its a straight shot to all three of those nuts. Made my life 100x better lol.
Once you get the oil pan off and your ready to put the new one on, be sure to do a few test fit runs before you put the HondaBond on. It will give yourself a feel of how the oil pan goes instead of screwing up your gasket job.
Overall, I'm really happy with how it turned out...I was real close to calling a tow truck a couple times from pure frustration, but in the end its much more satisfying doing it with your own two hands.
Isn't it amazing how it fell out in your hands but was like a damn puzzle to get it back in? I did the same thing, put hondabond on, waited, then tried to put it in and screwed it all up. Even after taking it out and practicing how to get it back in, it took a couple times to repeat it over and over.
Sorry I didn't mention that before, it had been a while and forgot about some of the obvious points AFTER you go through them. Hopefully your comments will help the next guy where I wasn't able to help you
CAR CARE TIP: The Time-Sert Fastener Company has developed a kit to repair stripped oil pan drain plug holes. After using the kit, the drain hole is reduced to 12 mm, so you’ll need a new drain plug, P/N 92800-12000, and a new washer, P/N 94109-12000. You can phone Time-Sert at 800–423-4070 (Acura ServiceNews, 1990)
Hey guys, I'm trying to practice putting my new oil pan in, I can't figure it out, any tips on how tho shimmy this thing in? Thanks
Doubt you're still looking for help, but I just did mine and thought I'd put a post up on how to get it back in.
Pay real close attention when it comes out, since the way it comes out is the way it goes back in.
When replacing it I found it would slide back in if I put the part towards the front of the car in first, ensuring the oil strainer lined up into the right area of the pan. You'll notice it needs to go inbetween the front two bolts on the oil pump where the pan mounts to the pump.
Then the other part that needs to slip between the sub-frame can squeeze in at just the right angle and point on the sub-frame.
Once that's done it just slides into place.
If you pay attention to the way it comes out getting it back in will be easier.
There's also a way that 'appears' right but isn't, you'll be able to get the pan under the sub-frame but the oil strainer will be between the wrong mounting points on the pan preventing the pan from going into the right spot if you attempt to put it in the wrong way, yet it appears right since it slips right in under the sub-frame but you'll never get it in position to mount it since the strainer will be in the wrong spot in the pan.
This was the biggest PITA that I've done with the car yet, figuring out how to put that oil pan back into place. I spent a few hours laying on my back trying to figure it out, no fun at all.
Use a lift if you have access to one.
Done now though, I also gave the hondabond over 15 hours to cure before I put oil back into the car, I know the service manual says 30 minutes is good but the tube of Hondabond HT says it needs 15 hours.
Doubt you're still looking for help, but I just did mine and thought I'd put a post up on how to get it back in.
Pay real close attention when it comes out, since the way it comes out is the way it goes back in.
When replacing it I found it would slide back in if I put the part towards the front of the car in first, ensuring the oil strainer lined up into the right area of the pan. You'll notice it needs to go inbetween the front two bolts on the oil pump where the pan mounts to the pump.
Then the other part that needs to slip between the sub-frame can squeeze in at just the right angle and point on the sub-frame.
Once that's done it just slides into place.
If you pay attention to the way it comes out getting it back in will be easier.
There's also a way that 'appears' right but isn't, you'll be able to get the pan under the sub-frame but the oil strainer will be between the wrong mounting points on the pan preventing the pan from going into the right spot if you attempt to put it in the wrong way, yet it appears right since it slips right in under the sub-frame but you'll never get it in position to mount it since the strainer will be in the wrong spot in the pan.
This was the biggest PITA that I've done with the car yet, figuring out how to put that oil pan back into place. I spent a few hours laying on my back trying to figure it out, no fun at all.
Use a lift if you have access to one.
Done now though, I also gave the hondabond over 15 hours to cure before I put oil back into the car, I know the service manual says 30 minutes is good but the tube of Hondabond HT says it needs 15 hours.
Hello - just to confirm, the fitting of the oil pan can be done WITHOUT removing the subframe, right? I have read a bunch of stuff saying to remove it, but if I can avoid removal of the subframe I would prefer that. Please advise and thanks!
I meant to say "removal and refitting of the oil pan can be done without removing the subframe". I have an oil leak coming from behind the oil pump and want to replace it with new gaskets. Anyone know what gaskets I will need to make sure I have everything to do the job properly?
Thanks in advance!
lastly, oil pumps seem to be relatively cheap but looks like Aisin (Sp?) pumps are no longer available. Is there a recommended pump brand? Also, I don't think I mentioned this is for a 2008 TL type S (RL motor).
I replaced my oil pan on my 2005 Acura TL without removing or lowering the subframe.
It's not a fun job.
The gasket is actually liquid gasket, it's Hondabond HT.
For the oil pump, given its such a critical component if you were to replace it I'd go with OEM and buy it from one of the sites like delray acura, they're vendors on the forum.
I've never tried getting the pump out before, so I can't speak to being able to replace it with the engine in the car. I can say that the oil pump seal is also Hondabond HT and to even have a shot at getting it out you'll have to remove the timing belt and the oil pan.
Thanks for the info. I have done the timing belt and after getting that out of the way the oil pump should not be a problem to get out as long as the oil pan is out of the way. I am pretty sure the pan has to be out in order to remove the pump and it what is causing me to ask the questions about the pan.
I didn't think the OEM pump was available anymore but will look for it from Del Ray Acura.
Since I have just replaced my oil pan on a 2006 TL, I thought it was my duty to impart my knowledge on how to make this job as pain free as possible:
1. Use penetrating oil on the 6 exhaust flange bolts, and give it a day.
2. There are 3 bolts that will be very hard to get to, and are under the subframe. Remove passenger side wheel. Undo your front and side motor mounts, and using a jack, and a piece of wood, jack up the engine from the oil pain a couple inches. This will get you the room you need to get all 3 bolts with a 1/4 socket and u-joint with small extension. It WILL fit. Lower the engine back down.
3. Cracking the oil pan loose might be difficult. Use the little pry tab that is right next to the main dampener pulley on the front of the engine. Should not take too much effort. You can also bang on the pan with a dead-blow, or heavy mallet if you are going to replace it, and do not care about damage.
4. When taking off the oil pan, it will always seem to get stuck from the front side under the subframe (where the pickup is). Simply use a jack and a piece of wood, and jack up the motor from the transmission. You only need an inch or so, and the pan will fall right out.
This will also make putting the pan back in very easy, starting from front/pickup side first. You won't have to try 20-30 times, and mess up your Hondabond.
5. After you have put the pan in with most of the bolts (except the difficult 3) remove the jack from the trans, and now use it jack up the engine from the oil pan (with a piece of wood of course). This will allow you to get in the 3 dificult bolts again.
6. remove the jack, and bolt in your 2 motor mounts.
Still not an easy job, but much less of a nightmare. Since i took the time to replace mine, I am going to use an E-Z oil valve, so no idiot ever strips out my oil pain bolt again.
injust went through this, with a of anxiety before hand. A couple of things I found helped the process:
I disconnected the exhaust from the engine, but left it hanging, there was enough flex in it to use a piece of romex through the lower control arm to pull the pipe below the subframe. I shoved some paper towels in the exhaust ports, didn't want to drop anything down there or have too many cleaners, oil, debris falling in there. Don't forget to order new exhaust gaskets, and I suggest new flange bolts(6). The old gaskets live in a channel in the exhaust pipe. A small screwdriver got them out.
Jack the engine up gently with a 2x4 on the AC compressor engine mount point. These bolts are pretty big, and I felt they could handle the sheer stress, just don't leave them in this position any longer than necessary.
Another view of the AC Compressor jack point
Once I had the oil pan bolts loose I used a 3' section of 1x1" had laying around. From the engine bay you'll see an oil pan flange. Give it a whack and you'll hear the pan drop. Ideally have someone sit under the car and keep the pan from falling on its own. It'd also reduce the chances of stressing the oil pickup.
The oil pump channel some have mentioned
Once the pan is off use the trusty 1x1" against this section of the oil pump. 1-2 whacks and it'll be free.
My preferred method for removing oil pan and pump. Hammer goes on the wood, not the aluminum.
If you're going after the oil pump crank seal. I tried removing it before the pump was out with the seal tool. There was no way it was going to work. I used a screw driver and hammer from the back side of the removed pump.
My OCD at work. The whole oil pan gasket from the block on one pass. The missing part went with the oil pump.
Staying true to my "buy all the bolts" mantra I highly suggest all be oil pan and oil pump abolts, they're tiny and breaking one particularly the 3-4 really hard to reach ones would be a nightmare. I also got new TB cover gaskets.
One tube of Honda bond was plenty, I ordered 2 and used about 1/3 of one tube.
When you put the oil pump back on be sure to check the pump/crank pulley alignment, mine was off and the pump wouldn't slide on. It should slide on easily when lined up properly. Practice several times before applying Honda bond. I chose to put it on the pump itself. For the pan I added it to the block.
Re-installing the pan(with the AC compressor jack point), I found it easiest to start the pan in the proper horizontal alignment but towards the back of the car about 4-6". Start with the front/pass side corner then try to get the driver side past the transmission lip(mine is MT, not sure if this differs with AT). Practice several times before applying Honda Bond to the block. I let the car sit for about 30 hours before I added oil, there was plenty of other things to reassemble.
Tools you should buy - not comprehensive by any means:
10mm Swivel socket
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000TQ14YG/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
1/4" extensions
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00943AKH2/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
1/4" in lb torque wrench https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C5ZL2EG/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Long 17mm box wrench to align the cam pulley. It does not want to stay at TDC of its budged at all when the belt is off.
Hope some of this helps. This is a doable job if you're comfortable with the TB replacement procedure this isn't that much harder. Take your time and good luck.
Hey, can anyone give me some advice on removing the oil pan!! I tried what ekrekel recommended and it still won't budge. I even hit it hard with a rubber mallet from all sides and nada.
Make sure you got all the bolts. I count 18 from the pan to the block, 2 to the transmission, and 2 more for the little clutch cover. If you've got an A/T it may bolt to the transmission differently.
Did you do this part? I hit the wooden section with a mini sledge hammer it popped pretty quick. Try to get someone to catch the pan.
I used a 3' section of 1x1" had laying around. From the engine bay you'll see an oil pan flange. Give it a whack and you'll hear the pan drop. Ideally have someone sit under the car and keep the pan from falling on its own. It'd also reduce the chances of stressing the oil pickup.
The picture with the points to wedge a screwdriver did the trick in terms of popping the oil pan loose. Take a large flat head and give it a twist at each point and you're home free. Also double check that you've removed the torque converter cover and removed the two screws in there.
Jeez, thanks for all the tips guys. i was able to successfully replace my oil pan. A simple DIY oil change became a oil pan replacement because idiots over torquing the drain bolt. Went to autozone and picked up a OE pan for ~80$ fits good, also picked up Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker for ~6$. used brake cleaner and rubber scraper to remove old gasket. *Apply Gasket Maker on the block instead on pan cause the pan is a tight fit to go in and out.* Hand tight the bolts on until the gasket maker is visible leave for 1 hour, then i torqued the oil pan bolts to 9 ft/lbs ~FYI could not torque 3 bolts on passenger side so just snugged those. leave it 24hrs before putting oil in engine. Done.
DIY Cost: ~100$
Dealer Cost: ~200$-500$
Hello. I just registered for this forum because of all the very useful information I have found. I'm directing my question to ekrekel. First thanks for the pics and taking the time post those helpful tips. My nephews tl is a 1999. I see you referenced a 2006. Will the steps your described work on a 1999? I'm apprehensive about doing the oil pan gasket bc I don't have access to a lift and I don't want to have to repeat the process over and over again because I couldn't get the pan back i without messing up the hondabond. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks
Hello. I just registered for this forum because of all the very useful information I have found. I'm directing my question to ekrekel. First thanks for the pics and taking the time post those helpful tips. My nephews tl is a 1999. I see you referenced a 2006. Will the steps your described work on a 1999? I'm apprehensive about doing the oil pan gasket bc I don't have access to a lift and I don't want to have to repeat the process over and over again because I couldn't get the pan back i without messing up the hondabond. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks
I'm not familiar enough with the 1999 to say for certain. They do share the same J32A Series Engine so there should be a lot of similarities but J32A1(1999) and J32A3(2006) parts aren't interchangeable and have several other components that could impact the oil pan range of motion. I'd dig youtube for some 2G TL oil pan replacement. These videos aren't the highest quality, but may be some tips for your 2G
. Good luck. Also asking in the 2G forum for scans of the factory maintenance manual may give you some confidence, but the factory will probably tell you to drop the sub-frame which I'd try to avoid.
Thanks for the information ekrekel, . I was under the car yesterday looking at the J- pipe that has to be removed. I purchased new nuts for the section of pipe that connects to the catalytic converter because they were totally rusted. To the point that they were no longer 14mm, but 13mm. I took those 3 off and replaced with the new 14mm nuts. I decided while under there that I'm not going to tackle this job on the ground. It's too cumbersome. Even with a helper, it would still be difficult to do without a lift. I did see the videos you attached online and thanks. Well anyway, I'll be back with more questions as needed. Good day!
injust went through this, with a of anxiety before hand. A couple of things I found helped the process:
I disconnected the exhaust from the engine, but left it hanging, there was enough flex in it to use a piece of romex through the lower control arm to pull the pipe below the subframe. I shoved some paper towels in the exhaust ports, didn't want to drop anything down there or have too many cleaners, oil, debris falling in there. Don't forget to order new exhaust gaskets, and I suggest new flange bolts(6). The old gaskets live in a channel in the exhaust pipe. A small screwdriver got them out.
Jack the engine up gently with a 2x4 on the AC compressor engine mount point. These bolts are pretty big, and I felt they could handle the sheer stress, just don't leave them in this position any longer than necessary.
Another view of the AC Compressor jack point
Once I had the oil pan bolts loose I used a 3' section of 1x1" had laying around. From the engine bay you'll see an oil pan flange. Give it a whack and you'll hear the pan drop. Ideally have someone sit under the car and keep the pan from falling on its own. It'd also reduce the chances of stressing the oil pickup.
The oil pump channel some have mentioned
Once the pan is off use the trusty 1x1" against this section of the oil pump. 1-2 whacks and it'll be free.
My preferred method for removing oil pan and pump. Hammer goes on the wood, not the aluminum.
If you're going after the oil pump crank seal. I tried removing it before the pump was out with the seal tool. There was no way it was going to work. I used a screw driver and hammer from the back side of the removed pump.
My OCD at work. The whole oil pan gasket from the block on one pass. The missing part went with the oil pump.
Staying true to my "buy all the bolts" mantra I highly suggest all be oil pan and oil pump abolts, they're tiny and breaking one particularly the 3-4 really hard to reach ones would be a nightmare. I also got new TB cover gaskets.
One tube of Honda bond was plenty, I ordered 2 and used about 1/3 of one tube.
When you put the oil pump back on be sure to check the pump/crank pulley alignment, mine was off and the pump wouldn't slide on. It should slide on easily when lined up properly. Practice several times before applying Honda bond. I chose to put it on the pump itself. For the pan I added it to the block.
Re-installing the pan(with the AC compressor jack point), I found it easiest to start the pan in the proper horizontal alignment but towards the back of the car about 4-6". Start with the front/pass side corner then try to get the driver side past the transmission lip(mine is MT, not sure if this differs with AT). Practice several times before applying Honda Bond to the block. I let the car sit for about 30 hours before I added oil, there was plenty of other things to reassemble.
Hope some of this helps. This is a doable job if you're comfortable with the TB replacement procedure this isn't that much harder. Take your time and good luck.
i just had mine replaced due to threads being stripped. that was a fat chunk of change. but he does it right with the OEM parts
i go to this shop for everything now. guy was explaining to me the correct lb of torque to use on the threads and stuff. i told him id just go to him for the oil change
Jack the engine up gently with a 2x4 on the AC compressor engine mount point. These bolts are pretty big, and I felt they could handle the sheer stress, just don't leave them in this position any longer than necessary.
Another view of the AC Compressor jack point I used.
Re-installing the pan(with the AC compressor jack point), I found it easiest to start the pan in the proper horizontal alignment but towards the back of the car about 4-6". Start with the front/pass side corner then try to get the driver side past the transmission lip(mine is MT, not sure if this differs with AT). Practice several times before applying Honda Bond to the block. I let the car sit for about 30 hours before I added oil, there was plenty of other things to reassemble.
Following up on this. I had to run through this again, seems my crank seal was pinched and began leaking. I also don’t think I used enough gasket goop. Like most 2nd times through hoping I did a better job. I did determine another tip to make things go smoother. I used the same jack position to help create space for putting the oil pan back on. This time around I loosened the front engine mount top cover bolts. I backed them out to the last 2-3 threads. That got me another ~1” by no means was it easy, but it was easier and I hope it’s the difference between it leaking on me again and a job well done. I did still tap the oil pickup with the corner of the pan once I had gooped it up, but added more and got a clean pass. That extra lift made tightening the passenger side bolts a lot easier. I’m sure you could pull the mount nuts entirely but I’d be concerned about stressing the other mounts still in place. Lift slow and listen closely for signs that other items aren’t happy with the lift.
Front mount nut removals
Hopefully this is the last update I have to make here. Good luck!
I installed a Fumoto valve when I did the oil pan. Once you go that route, you'll never need to loosen another drain plug to risk stripping the threads.
Following up on this. I had to run through this again, …
Hopefully this is the last update I have to make here. Good luck!
12 years after the OP and 2 years from the last update, I just want to say Thank You Ekrekel! I’d read this a LONG time ago and needed the advice tonight replaced the pan on my ‘05 that’s been dripping in the driveway for years(cause I’m lazy and have a pressure washer ) I knew there was a trick but couldn’t remember it. I pulled the j pipe and couldn’t get the pan out for the life of me. Came in, had a beer, found your post, got a jack under the tranny and another beer and the pan dropped out like buttered toast! Thanks again, and Thanks Acurazine for having such a great wealth of knowledge for our cars!!
12 years after the OP and 2 years from the last update, I just want to say Thank You Ekrekel! I’d read this a LONG time ago and needed the advice tonight replaced the pan on my ‘05 that’s been dripping in the driveway for years(cause I’m lazy and have a pressure washer ) I knew there was a trick but couldn’t remember it. I pulled the j pipe and couldn’t get the pan out for the life of me. Came in, had a beer, found your post, got a jack under the tranny and another beer and the pan dropped out like buttered toast! Thanks again, and Thanks Acurazine for having such a great wealth of knowledge for our cars!!
Excellent! These groups are great, I've certainly benefitted from other Garage posts over the years so I'm happy to put in the effort to help someone debating a pretty daunting task like this. After my first attempt didn't work, I took 4 years to try again. Partially wanting to get some miles on the TB since I don't reuse any of those types of parts, but certainly dreading messing with the oil pan again after limited success earlier. The 2nd try (with a TON of hondabond on the pan this time) sealed it up nicely.
Sadly, 3 months after that, my area had a major (lime sized) hail storm that totaled both of our cars. They towed the '06 away right at 262k miles, the only signs of wear were a ripped diver seat (~250k) and everyone's favorite textured dashboard feature. I could tell it was running about 90% of it's original power, but it had become my commuter car, it was destined for 500k.
It looked like 2 methods of jacking up the engine were recommended: under the transmission or the passenger side engine mount bracket. Do they both lift the engine up pretty evenly or tilt the engine one way vs the other? Any preference?
When I jack up, what do I pay attention to in order to avoid overdoing / damaging? Is there a number of inches (2 or 3 ?) that is reasonably safe?
It looked like 2 methods of jacking up the engine were recommended: under the transmission or the passenger side engine mount bracket. Do they both lift the engine up pretty evenly or tilt the engine one way vs the other? Any preference?
When I jack up, what do I pay attention to in order to avoid overdoing / damaging? Is there a number of inches (2 or 3 ?) that is reasonably safe?
Appreciate your help!
The passenger engine mount is removed to get the oil pump out there’s no opportunity to jack there and the space you’re trying to generate is between the pass side frame and the thin part of the oil pan. Lifting on the transmission side or anywhere on the drivers side would make that angle worse. Tilting the engine isn’t an issue, it’s less of an angle than the banking on an overpass.
I only used one jack point for this part, the flange where the AC compressor bolts to the block. It has big sturdy bolts and should have no issue being used for that purpose, with a block of wood of course.
The front mount I just loosened the bolts to the last threads and I considered that the max I’d jack it to. This bought about 2-3” which, after trying the pan replacement the first time, was a ton of space. I didn’t notice anything that was unhappy with the lift. The pass side moves the most and almost everything on that side is disconnected. Perhaps keep an eye on the AC flex connections from the compressor to the condenser next to the radiator but I recall that being just fine.
I wouldn’t leave it jacked that extra 2-3” longer than you need to finish the job. If you take a break after getting the pan off, lower the jack and let it sit back down on the front engine mount. Probably not necessary, just how I’d operate. Good luck.
The passenger engine mount is removed to get the oil pump out there’s no opportunity to jack there and the space you’re trying to generate is between the pass side frame and the thin part of the oil pan. Lifting on the transmission side or anywhere on the drivers side would make that angle worse. Tilting the engine isn’t an issue, it’s less of an angle than the banking on an overpass.
I only used one jack point for this part, the flange where the AC compressor bolts to the block. It has big sturdy bolts and should have no issue being used for that purpose, with a block of wood of course.
The front mount I just loosened the bolts to the last threads and I considered that the max I’d jack it to. This bought about 2-3” which, after trying the pan replacement the first time, was a ton of space. I didn’t notice anything that was unhappy with the lift. The pass side moves the most and almost everything on that side is disconnected. Perhaps keep an eye on the AC flex connections from the compressor to the condenser next to the radiator but I recall that being just fine.
I wouldn’t leave it jacked that extra 2-3” longer than you need to finish the job. If you take a break after getting the pan off, lower the jack and let it sit back down on the front engine mount. Probably not necessary, just how I’d operate. Good luck.
As to the front engine mount, did you remove the bolt at the front (circled in red)? If this bolt is removed, the front of the engine would be disconnected from the engine mount. If you took out just the 2 nuts securing the stopper, I think the engine mount will be stretched to the limit of your loosened stopper. Is that correct?
Thank you for clarifying the jack up point. I mistook it as the passenger side engine mount bracket. Now I know it's the A/C compressor mount at the front! You mentioned 2-3". Was that the total height you jacked it up? It looked more than that from your photo.
@bohrhe For the front mount I loosened the nuts on the top next to the pen and the matching one on the other side. Yes the one you circled holds the mount to the engine. I determined that’d be less easy to re attach that than to loosen the vertical attachments and let it slide up/down. The mount rubber wont stretch during this unless you jack much past when the flange re-contacts the nuts loosened to its last few threads.
I don’t have a measurement of the resulting gap between the block/pan mating surface but it’s not a ton of space maybe 2” initially. Loosening the mount/frame attachment increasing it to 4-5” was a lifesaver. I see no issue lifting it to the extent easily allowed by loosening the mount top nuts and just slowly jacking it up until the mount starts to compress against the top nuts. At that point when you go down the pan should go in and out pretty easily. Certainly if you follow the alignment method we mentioned earlier. Still practice the replacement a few times to make sure you don’t bump anything with the Honda bond. I had to do this twice bc of that.
^ - x2 on practicing putting the pan back in once everything it out without the Honda bond on it yet. While I had the car up on a proper lift I mistakenly assumed (despite it being a pain to remove) that I could get the pan back in no problem. Made a bit of a mess and I would have been much better off nailing down the exact movements to get the pan lined back up before putting on the seal.
01-15-2012, 09:13 PM
. I was under the car yesterday looking at the J- pipe that has to be removed. I purchased new nuts for the section of pipe that connects to the catalytic converter because they were totally rusted. To the point that they were no longer 14mm, but 13mm. I took those 3 off and replaced with the new 14mm nuts. I decided while under there that I'm not going to tackle this job on the ground. It's too cumbersome. Even with a helper, it would still be difficult to do without a lift. I did see the videos you attached online and thanks. Well anyway, I'll be back with more questions as needed. Good day!
