DIY turbo idea for cheap? LOL
02-23-2017, 08:15 AM
#801
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I haven't decided on the piston just because I don't know what block I want to use. Lol i was hoping that mahle or someone else will make a set of cast piston that are low compression just because with forge piston you have to account for thermal expansion. Also not sure how much ring gap I need to run. I watched a bunch of video on YouTube on doing ring gaps. But it seems like you have to determine it on each cylinder by hand
02-23-2017, 12:19 PM
#803
I haven't decided on the piston just because I don't know what block I want to use. Lol i was hoping that mahle or someone else will make a set of cast piston that are low compression just because with forge piston you have to account for thermal expansion. Also not sure how much ring gap I need to run. I watched a bunch of video on YouTube on doing ring gaps. But it seems like you have to determine it on each cylinder by hand
There is a lot of information on all the clearances you need to run. You have to invest in some calipers/micrometers or find a good machine shop that you can trust to make the measurements for you.
02-23-2017, 12:51 PM
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Are the piston coating worth it?
How much are you guys spending on forged pistons?
I think lower CR 9:1 will help and maybe having the ring lands move down some more so that they don't get eaten up.
How much are you guys spending on forged pistons?
I think lower CR 9:1 will help and maybe having the ring lands move down some more so that they don't get eaten up.
02-23-2017, 02:33 PM
#805
If you're concerned about expansion , use a high silicon forged piston. JE's are low silicon Al - 2618, SRPs are 4032, which is what you'd want. Wiseco is 4032, and Arias uses both. CPs are 2618 as well.
Just remember - you trade clearances for being more brittle.
TBMotorworx makes some forged J series pistons - but they are 1200 bucks, which is HIGH, and from their pics, I don't like the short skirts.
As for assembly, there's 2 schools of thought.
1. Have a company with a reputation for J motors do it and trust them
2. Research and do it yourself and hold yourself responsible
Seeing as how the performance industry has little to no warranty, and any tool can hang a shingle, I don't see how you could hold anyone responsible in the case of something going wrong. Hence, I vote to save the money and do it yourself and learn about the motor.
Time to build that motor and crank the boost Ken. There is a group buy on some stage 3 turbos calling my name. Shooting for 700 rwhp.
Just remember - you trade clearances for being more brittle.
TBMotorworx makes some forged J series pistons - but they are 1200 bucks, which is HIGH, and from their pics, I don't like the short skirts.
As for assembly, there's 2 schools of thought.
1. Have a company with a reputation for J motors do it and trust them
2. Research and do it yourself and hold yourself responsible
Seeing as how the performance industry has little to no warranty, and any tool can hang a shingle, I don't see how you could hold anyone responsible in the case of something going wrong. Hence, I vote to save the money and do it yourself and learn about the motor.
Time to build that motor and crank the boost Ken. There is a group buy on some stage 3 turbos calling my name. Shooting for 700 rwhp.
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teh CL (02-23-2017)
02-23-2017, 07:46 PM
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Going to see what the motor looks like before I do anything.
Also looking into a daily for when I get back. I like the gen 2 RL even though it is a fat pig. It would be nice for a cruiser while I build up the accord block for boost
also were you talking about these pistons?
http://tbmotorworx.com/tb-motorworx/...eight-pistons/
Also looking into a daily for when I get back. I like the gen 2 RL even though it is a fat pig. It would be nice for a cruiser while I build up the accord block for boost
also were you talking about these pistons?
http://tbmotorworx.com/tb-motorworx/...eight-pistons/
x 2
02-23-2017, 08:33 PM
#809
02-24-2017, 12:11 AM
#810
I think I paid $840 for my set of Wiseco pistons. I went with 9.5:1 compression , they are Andys specs just tweeked to get my compression ratio. Tell Wiseco you are running their pistons and had a failure, they will give you a discount. Low comp is the way to go. Look at J32 blocks, mine was pretty cheap and it's nice to start from a new block.
02-24-2017, 07:53 AM
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Hmm I might do that and order a block from Honda/Acura. How about the crank shaft? Did you reuse yours? Also who did your engine build? Was it tech3? Or did you diy and thanks for the heads up about the wiseco pistons. That is a reasonable price for forged piston
02-24-2017, 10:04 AM
#813
Burning Brakes
It could be just a matter of opening up the piston ring gaps and adding an intake manifold that allows for better distribution of charged air.
Skip the RL and get a new 1.5 turbo civic
02-24-2017, 10:41 AM
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Havent bought anything just just window shopping. The new civic hatch are nice. But I rather do monthly payment right now.
Have you figured out if your cylinder walls are fine? Wait until you've figured out the damaged before you start buying parts.
It could be just a matter of opening up the piston ring gaps and adding an intake manifold that allows for better distribution of charged air.
Skip the RL and get a new 1.5 turbo civic
It could be just a matter of opening up the piston ring gaps and adding an intake manifold that allows for better distribution of charged air.
Skip the RL and get a new 1.5 turbo civic
02-24-2017, 11:19 PM
#815
I reused everything from my stock block including the crank, took the Supertech valve train out of the Type-s heads and used them in my stock heads. Tech 3 did my engine build and does all my work., love that place. From what I understand it best to have someone with experience assembling your engine. I think getting a new block is the way to go, I couldn't believe how small the box was that my block came in and it only weighted 70 LBS. I think mine came to a little more than $600 with shipping. A new block will be easier to find Pistons for since you don't have to find the largest cylinder and machine the others to that size, then order Pistons to match.
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thisaznboi88 (02-25-2017)
02-25-2017, 10:41 PM
#816
I used an engine built with all factory parts and it lasted longer than I expected it to before finally breaking a ringland after running 20lbs+ of boost for a quite some time. There's a few things that were done that I feel greatly contributed to the engines lifespan.
1. Lowered the engines rev limiter by 500 RPMs. Revs destroy a motor. And with a lot of boost, it will kill it even quicker. Even with a lowered rev limit, it still had a peak power 200-300 RPMs before the ECM cut. Never once missed those other 500 revs.
2. Running ethanol. This is a no brainer. It's essentially race gas at the pump. Our motors (at their stock compression ratio) are definitely knock limited and without adequate octane, reliability and/or power suffer.
3. Piston ring gap. Though it was the ring gap that ultimately killed my motor, it's still what enabled it to live. I pulled all upper and lower rings out gapped them at .015" and .020" respectively. Though probably would've been fine for 10-15lbs of boost, it clearly wasn't enough at higher levels. The engine I'm building now is .024" and .028" for reference.
4. Exhaust port size. I've always felt that the exhaust port on single port heads were restrictive at higher power levels. Especially with later gen j37a4 heads which are roughly 15% smaller in size. I hogged the ports out before running the motor. After using an old head as a cutaway example, I proceeded to remove 1-1.5mm all within the port and widened the port outlet by approx 4mm. Without adequate volume for exhaust gas to escape, reversion will be encountered and thus cause knock.
5. Water injection- Yup, good old water. Wanna know the funny part of the story? The night I cracked the ringland, I ran out of water 15-20 min before the engine was damaged. Coincidence? I think not. Funny how it went so long with absolutely zero knock counts at 20lbs+ and then fails shortly after running out of water! Water is a chamber cooler that helps by staving off excess heat. Run that shit!
Ok, so maybe it's a LOT of stuff to do to protect the engine, I admit. But you know, it works for me and I'm not changing my formula with the next one. Remember, 20lbs+, STOCK engine.
1. Lowered the engines rev limiter by 500 RPMs. Revs destroy a motor. And with a lot of boost, it will kill it even quicker. Even with a lowered rev limit, it still had a peak power 200-300 RPMs before the ECM cut. Never once missed those other 500 revs.
2. Running ethanol. This is a no brainer. It's essentially race gas at the pump. Our motors (at their stock compression ratio) are definitely knock limited and without adequate octane, reliability and/or power suffer.
3. Piston ring gap. Though it was the ring gap that ultimately killed my motor, it's still what enabled it to live. I pulled all upper and lower rings out gapped them at .015" and .020" respectively. Though probably would've been fine for 10-15lbs of boost, it clearly wasn't enough at higher levels. The engine I'm building now is .024" and .028" for reference.
4. Exhaust port size. I've always felt that the exhaust port on single port heads were restrictive at higher power levels. Especially with later gen j37a4 heads which are roughly 15% smaller in size. I hogged the ports out before running the motor. After using an old head as a cutaway example, I proceeded to remove 1-1.5mm all within the port and widened the port outlet by approx 4mm. Without adequate volume for exhaust gas to escape, reversion will be encountered and thus cause knock.
5. Water injection- Yup, good old water. Wanna know the funny part of the story? The night I cracked the ringland, I ran out of water 15-20 min before the engine was damaged. Coincidence? I think not. Funny how it went so long with absolutely zero knock counts at 20lbs+ and then fails shortly after running out of water! Water is a chamber cooler that helps by staving off excess heat. Run that shit!
Ok, so maybe it's a LOT of stuff to do to protect the engine, I admit. But you know, it works for me and I'm not changing my formula with the next one. Remember, 20lbs+, STOCK engine.
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thisaznboi88 (02-25-2017)
02-25-2017, 10:49 PM
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bore scope didn't come today 
So still waiting on it. I think I will have to change the gap on the spark plugs. Looks like it is eating a lot more fuel (use to get around 200 miles when it hit 1/2 on the gauge so about 25 mpg, now it is looks like it might be around 150-160 before it hit 1/2) and the car just doesn't feel right. For example while at a red light the idle jumps down and then it recovers just before it stalls. also the engine doesn't feel as smooth compared to when it was on the ik22.
So still waiting on it. I think I will have to change the gap on the spark plugs. Looks like it is eating a lot more fuel (use to get around 200 miles when it hit 1/2 on the gauge so about 25 mpg, now it is looks like it might be around 150-160 before it hit 1/2) and the car just doesn't feel right. For example while at a red light the idle jumps down and then it recovers just before it stalls. also the engine doesn't feel as smooth compared to when it was on the ik22.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 02-25-2017 at 10:51 PM.
02-26-2017, 07:39 AM
#818
I used an engine built with all factory parts and it lasted longer than I expected it to before finally breaking a ringland after running 20lbs+ of boost for a quite some time. There's a few things that were done that I feel greatly contributed to the engines lifespan.
1. Lowered the engines rev limiter by 500 RPMs. Revs destroy a motor. And with a lot of boost, it will kill it even quicker. Even with a lowered rev limit, it still had a peak power 200-300 RPMs before the ECM cut. Never once missed those other 500 revs.
2. Running ethanol. This is a no brainer. It's essentially race gas at the pump. Our motors (at their stock compression ratio) are definitely knock limited and without adequate octane, reliability and/or power suffer.
3. Piston ring gap. Though it was the ring gap that ultimately killed my motor, it's still what enabled it to live. I pulled all upper and lower rings out gapped them at .015" and .020" respectively. Though probably would've been fine for 10-15lbs of boost, it clearly wasn't enough at higher levels. The engine I'm building now is .024" and .028" for reference.
4. Exhaust port size. I've always felt that the exhaust port on single port heads were restrictive at higher power levels. Especially with later gen j37a4 heads which are roughly 15% smaller in size. I hogged the ports out before running the motor. After using an old head as a cutaway example, I proceeded to remove 1-1.5mm all within the port and widened the port outlet by approx 4mm. Without adequate volume for exhaust gas to escape, reversion will be encountered and thus cause knock.
5. Water injection- Yup, good old water. Wanna know the funny part of the story? The night I cracked the ringland, I ran out of water 15-20 min before the engine was damaged. Coincidence? I think not. Funny how it went so long with absolutely zero knock counts at 20lbs+ and then fails shortly after running out of water! Water is a chamber cooler that helps by staving off excess heat. Run that shit!
Ok, so maybe it's a LOT of stuff to do to protect the engine, I admit. But you know, it works for me and I'm not changing my formula with the next one. Remember, 20lbs+, STOCK engine.
1. Lowered the engines rev limiter by 500 RPMs. Revs destroy a motor. And with a lot of boost, it will kill it even quicker. Even with a lowered rev limit, it still had a peak power 200-300 RPMs before the ECM cut. Never once missed those other 500 revs.
2. Running ethanol. This is a no brainer. It's essentially race gas at the pump. Our motors (at their stock compression ratio) are definitely knock limited and without adequate octane, reliability and/or power suffer.
3. Piston ring gap. Though it was the ring gap that ultimately killed my motor, it's still what enabled it to live. I pulled all upper and lower rings out gapped them at .015" and .020" respectively. Though probably would've been fine for 10-15lbs of boost, it clearly wasn't enough at higher levels. The engine I'm building now is .024" and .028" for reference.
4. Exhaust port size. I've always felt that the exhaust port on single port heads were restrictive at higher power levels. Especially with later gen j37a4 heads which are roughly 15% smaller in size. I hogged the ports out before running the motor. After using an old head as a cutaway example, I proceeded to remove 1-1.5mm all within the port and widened the port outlet by approx 4mm. Without adequate volume for exhaust gas to escape, reversion will be encountered and thus cause knock.
5. Water injection- Yup, good old water. Wanna know the funny part of the story? The night I cracked the ringland, I ran out of water 15-20 min before the engine was damaged. Coincidence? I think not. Funny how it went so long with absolutely zero knock counts at 20lbs+ and then fails shortly after running out of water! Water is a chamber cooler that helps by staving off excess heat. Run that shit!
Ok, so maybe it's a LOT of stuff to do to protect the engine, I admit. But you know, it works for me and I'm not changing my formula with the next one. Remember, 20lbs+, STOCK engine.
02-26-2017, 02:14 PM
#819
Also, I wanted to clarify that when I said a gapped the upper and lower rings, I meant upper and lower compression rings. Not lower as in oil ring.
02-26-2017, 09:51 PM
#821
Inconel valves are definitely added assurance in a forced induction build and if you have the money than I'd say purchase them. However, I myself have a few reasons for NOT using them on my upcoming build. Inconel has temperature tolerance up to some 2400* F before losing its material composition and thus its strength. My previous tests using EGT (one bank only) showed me that, even at higher boost levels, exhaust temps generally range between 1400-1600* F. Though I never got to do testing with water injection installed, I'm quite certain the temps were reduced even more. I've learned from a reliable source that Honda uses stainless steel (lower quality from aftermarket, performance valves) for their valve material and also use sodium in exhaust valves to help even more with staving off heat. Though I don't know the heat limit of the stock valves, I'd be willing to bet that it's only a few hundred degrees below 2400* as nearly all 316 or 330 grade (typical stainless grades for exhaust valves) have limits of nearly 2000* F. This is an only an assumption as I am no metallurgist or even valve technology expert.
Either way, buy them if you have the cash flow. If you are using water injection and have a good tune (no elevated combustion/EGT's from timing retard or lean AFR) then roll with the stock valves. Another thing to ensure is valve seats. Exhaust valves are cooled by conduction to both the guide and mostly the seat itself. If the valves are seating poorly, they will cause a two fold affect of overheating by reduced conduction to the seat and also by not retaining combustion gases before the fuel is fully spent. That can cause extremely high temps to seep between the valve and seat which of course can spell disaster. It's actually a good idea to enlarge the width of the seat contact area by roughly 0.5 to 1.0mm to increase contact area and thereby the conduction rate at which heat is removed from the valve. This is typically only beneficial for a forced induction motor as increasing the seat contact area does cause a reduction in airflow around the valve which is minimal for an engine with boost but could be much more for an NA motor.
Last but not least is applying a ceramic based coating around the valve heads (top and bottom) and also up the stem to the point it meets the guide when fully seated on the head. Though this one can be considered an extreme measure, those whom are building on a budget may benefit from this if say you are uncertain about your own tuning skills or the local tuners skills and also may not be injecting water. Even running a fuel with known higher combustion/EGT's than say gasoline could also justify coating the valves. There's a few well known company's you can buy self applied coatings from that can be cured in an oven or even company's that can do it for you. Probably the most well known would be Swaintech and their White Lightning product that is some 0.5mm thick or something like that. My personal experience with the self applied coatings are actually fairly good but definitely do NOT skip the preparation instructions given or your efforts will be in vain.
Either way, buy them if you have the cash flow. If you are using water injection and have a good tune (no elevated combustion/EGT's from timing retard or lean AFR) then roll with the stock valves. Another thing to ensure is valve seats. Exhaust valves are cooled by conduction to both the guide and mostly the seat itself. If the valves are seating poorly, they will cause a two fold affect of overheating by reduced conduction to the seat and also by not retaining combustion gases before the fuel is fully spent. That can cause extremely high temps to seep between the valve and seat which of course can spell disaster. It's actually a good idea to enlarge the width of the seat contact area by roughly 0.5 to 1.0mm to increase contact area and thereby the conduction rate at which heat is removed from the valve. This is typically only beneficial for a forced induction motor as increasing the seat contact area does cause a reduction in airflow around the valve which is minimal for an engine with boost but could be much more for an NA motor.
Last but not least is applying a ceramic based coating around the valve heads (top and bottom) and also up the stem to the point it meets the guide when fully seated on the head. Though this one can be considered an extreme measure, those whom are building on a budget may benefit from this if say you are uncertain about your own tuning skills or the local tuners skills and also may not be injecting water. Even running a fuel with known higher combustion/EGT's than say gasoline could also justify coating the valves. There's a few well known company's you can buy self applied coatings from that can be cured in an oven or even company's that can do it for you. Probably the most well known would be Swaintech and their White Lightning product that is some 0.5mm thick or something like that. My personal experience with the self applied coatings are actually fairly good but definitely do NOT skip the preparation instructions given or your efforts will be in vain.
02-26-2017, 10:01 PM
#822
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I was thinking about p2r stainless valves. I do have a 5 angle valve job on the intake and 3 angle on the exhaust side. I stop running water meth after the incident where there was a short in the fuse and it dumped 2 gallon of methanol into my engine, turbo piping, and intercooler. I flushed the engine out and did a leak down and it looked like everything was alright. This was in Nov if I remember correctly. So maybe it finally caught up with me? Pretty sure at this point an rebuild or new block wouldn't hurt
02-26-2017, 11:43 PM
#823
Burning Brakes
I suggest some sort of higher grade exhaust valve given the single port exhaust of the J series engines. The OEM's are going this way for Turbo engines, Honda's 1.5T have sodium filled exhaust valves (cast in head exhaust manifolds) to help address high exhaust temperatures.
Although water injection works, to me it's a work around and if it fails for whatever reason it spells blown motor. It's playing with borrowed time, just my
I am also conservative because I don't like when I am not able to drive my stuff.
Although water injection works, to me it's a work around and if it fails for whatever reason it spells blown motor. It's playing with borrowed time, just my
I am also conservative because I don't like when I am not able to drive my stuff.
02-28-2017, 10:40 AM
#827
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Did a mild pull yesterday and Dom said the engine looks okay. So that is good news. I was thinking that the wierd metallic thingy might have cause the spark to arc at high rpm. Causing that misfire. Still waiting for a good day to scope the cylinder bore
02-28-2017, 03:07 PM
#829
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Current plugs are at .022. I having gone full boost yet just around 5 psi. Still got another 4 psi to go
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 02-28-2017 at 03:13 PM.
03-01-2017, 07:21 PM
#830
03-15-2017, 03:33 AM
#832
holy crap I remember when this thread first started its been so long since iv been on AZ :,) Im so glad to see the plans came through OP. the numbers on your sig are very impressive. I must admit this thred has become "TLDR" no pun intended. Can you please give a summary of your set up and what you plan to try out in the near future? I remember Turbo on TL seemed so mythical on a 3G TL when i first got on the forum back in 2010 from what I was reading. What were some of the major obstacles you had to overcome?
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atomlinks (03-18-2017)
03-15-2017, 11:44 AM
#836
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this is the scope that I used. It cheap and its kinda like a one time use scope. Already falling apart. lol 5/10M 6LED USB Waterproof Endoscope Borescope Snake Inspection Camera Scope 7MM | eBay
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atomlinks (03-18-2017)
03-24-2017, 08:18 AM
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found some H rods for a j35
HONDA/ACURA 3.5L J35 ALL MDX/DL/ODYSSEY/PILOT H BEAM RODS 6.240" ARP 3/8"BOLTS | eBay
HONDA/ACURA 3.5L J35 ALL MDX/DL/ODYSSEY/PILOT H BEAM RODS 6.240" ARP 3/8"BOLTS | eBay
03-26-2017, 12:36 PM
#839
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New master cylinder and p2r clutch line installed. Didn't need the master cylinder since it was the braided clutch line that was leaking. Pretty sure it wasn't made for brake fluid
03-31-2017, 08:28 PM
#840
Transmission Pro
