Road Rage

OK, this is not for the TL, which gets the outdoor car treatment (quarterly machine glaze with 3M Imperial Machine Glaze, followed by 3M Show Car Perfect-It Paste Wax). The "outdoor treatment" give sup somke ultimate clarity for tremendous resistance to UV, pollution, acid rain, etc.

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The Garage Queen S2000 recently got the P21S treatment. It sits under a flannel cover with hi-voltage grids to keep the kitties off, in an air conditioned/heated garage. It sees about 2000 miles a year.

I recently gave it the P21S treatment. I used their Paintwork Cleanser, which is very easy to use - it has a mild chemical cleaner, some filler material, emollients to add gloss and nourish the clearcoat, in a rich, creamy form. I applied it with a Zaino "terry over foam" applicator - I also tried a new Meguiar's closed-cell foam disc and that allowed for a very even application. Minor stains from trees/bugs came off easily. Rubbing the finish with a clean twerry cloth gave the squeaky sound of a surface devoid of any protectant (this is an old trick of the trade to determine if your car needs waxing).

Anyway, since my car has no swirls, and only a few defects from actual use, the mild formula of the P21S Painwork Cleanser was just right. I did one section at a time, and buffed it off with a clean cotton towel - the P21S came off completely - without any residue at all, unlike even my favorite 3M glazes (although they do better on minor swirls, webs, and stains).

I followed immediately with P21S Concours Look Carnauba to protect the "exposed surface" before any dust could get on it. I used a foam applicator, slightly damp. The P21S wax has high #1 carnauba, in a paste form with no perfumes or colors (carnauba is not blue). It went on smoothly and easily, and I buffed it off immediatel7, mving from section to section, top to bottom. I used only a tiny amount of the wax - I estimate at least 20 wax jobs are in the 350ml can (remember - the roof is PVC - no wax there no way! More of the Cleaner is used of course, and I estimate about 5-7 cleanings from the bottle of that product.

Now, I had Zaino'd the car previously, but was having a hard time determining how the necessary cleaning all paint needs "jibed" with the Zaino philosophy. Seemed to me that if it does really build-up coats, that cleaning would defeat that, and I would be starting all over again each time. I also did not want any of the "polymer haze" sometimes seen in modern miracle products, even one as refined as Zaino. This is mostly on European finishes, for some reason.

Anyway, the combo of the 2 P21S products was outstanding! The car (which is a medium silver metallic called Silverstone, after the English raceway of the same name) just radiated light in a way I had not seen it do previously. It had delivered all the cliches: "wet look", "shine a mile deep", blah blah blah. Although black is a better test, the bright fluorescent lights in my garage reveal everything, and I did not see anything requiring a detail misting like Zaino, which like many polymer-based products, sometimes needs help distributing the polymers evenly. IO think that is what the Z-12 (right number?) helps with. Don't get me wrong - I think the Zaino system is great for some cars, especially the SMG-bodied Corvettes.

I do not gush over waxes, somehow missed the Zymol craze, and used/recommended Zaino to people looking for a tough shine, especially on Corvettes (my specialty area for consultation and restorations).

It was sunny, so I took the car for a spin, and it just gleamed in the Autumn sun, with the last of the heartiest bright leaves reflecting off its long, mirrored hood. I had to catch myself a few times, as I started to focus on the shine, rather than the driving!

So this is my new combo for "Khan" (my car's nickname, based on its serial number of 1701 - get it?) and the fabuous over-acting portrayal of the artificially-engineered Khan by Ricardo Montalban in Star Trek II, arguably the best of the lot. So when my Mugen-modded S2000 is screaming along at 8k+, and blows off one of the cattle-mobiles (cars/trucks/SUVs less nimble, which is about 99% of what is out there) that clog the arteries of my favorite roads, picking them off like an F-18 is like delivering the Wrath of Khan.

I like the real cleaning my car is getting, just strong enough for its needs, the ease of application and removal, and the dazzling results. Longevity? Not an issue. I usually do a 2nd coat of carnaubas a week apart - at about 3 months and perhaps 5 car washes later, it will get a fresh clean/wax cycle.

Highly recommended. And reasonably priced for the quality, esp. compared to the outrageous prices of their wheel-cleaning products.

P.S. I get my car care products from www.carecareonline.com - they were selling the P21S cleanere on sales for $11.96, so I picked up 2 bottles.

JDM5lugHatch

Did you also know that P21S is also the same thing as S100 available at Harley Dealerships at a fraction of the cost. Good stuff though I have used it many times. I also like the new Meguires NXT wax. This is a surprise to me as I usually don't like their products.

insmanblue

I always heard that P21S was the wax to get because of the depth of shine it offers. I never bought the stuff becasue it is too expensive. I bought the S100 as a compromise. I didn't know the two are the same. I feel alot better about my purchase now. Thank you.

I'm Batman

Great input as usual. I prefer to use carnuba waxes over the polymer products. You just can't beat a good carnubas shine and depth.

CLpower

S100 on top of NXT

JDM5lugHatch

Hotness!

Vicman17

I applied Klasse AIO last summer and added about 4 coats of Klasse SG and Meg's #26 HTYW as a topper about every 2 weeks. I thought that the shine was at it's best. I picked up a jar of S100 from a cycle shop and was surprised that it was the same product (same smell and consistency) as the P21S for about half the price. I applied it the same manner as the #26 with a foam pad and did a panel at a time slowly and gently, buffing off with 2 MF towels. All I can say now is that my SSM looked several times better than with the #26. The shine was not just brighter but the color had more depth to it too!

The noticeable thing as well is the water beading. The S100 had small uniform sized beads and slid right off the finish while parked as opposed to the #26 that would stay almost in "spray" sized beads and would not slide off unless the car is moving.

I'm hoping this will last longer!

CLpower

I find #26 really deepens paint alot more. On a silver car I'd use S100 cause it makes metallics dance like no other. On a black or dark non-metallic car I'd probably go w/ #26. I would of used 26 instead of S100 on that day you see the picture of my sub, but all I had laying around was S100 and I was bored

EZZ

I noticed P21S only lasts for about a month to a month and a half. Klasse (SG) lasts much longer (maybe 3-4 months) but doesn't have the same shine. Klasse is actually easier to use and seems to protect from the elements better than P21S. BTW, I used P21S for over a year and was really impressed. Klasse impressed me even further so I switched.

Vicman17

I don't think you can replace one with the other since they're 2 different products.

But you can use both. A good layer of sealant first then topped off with a good quality pure carnauba.

CLPower used NXT as a sealant then topped it with S100.
Have the longevity of the protection provided by the Klasse twins and top it off with P21S/ S100 to enhance the shine.

I think this will be my combo for the next little while.

IMO the protection provided by the Carnauba (#26, #16 or P21S) will even extend the protection of the sealant as it does not get readily exposed to the elements.

EZZ

The only weakness in topping off the Klasse twins with a Carnauba wax is that you can't layer Klasse well. Klasse doesn't look as good until you get to layer 3 then it looks as good as P21S. If you keep layering Klasse, the shine is great and you get the benefit of a hard acrylic topping on your paint.

You are right in that a combo with the Klasse twins and P21S gives a great shine but I'm too lazy to strip off everything and reapply the three every time I wax. I prefer to just layer Klasse and strip off once a year to reapply (yes yes...I'm lazy )

CLpower

multiple layering is overrated. Klasse twins aren't opitically clear so each layer you are getting diminishing returns IMO. One or Two layers should be perfect IMO

dashotgun

I don't know about it not being opticaly clear see below 6 layers of Klasse sealent glaze with a topper of Ps21

dashotgun

here is the TL with 3 layers of SG and a topper of PS21

reflective

Just to let you guys know. S100 is the exact same as P21S. You can get the S100 at your local Harley dealer for a whole lot cheaper. I believe the tub of paste wax of S100 is $16.95 vs. the $30 or $40 you'll spend on P21S. It's the exact same product, same tub, different label.

Save some $

Erik

Hawhyen51

Thanks for the info, points for you!

Vicman17

Yep, I just happened to drop by the local Harley shop and voila! S100 for around $20 (Canadian). It rains on and off for the past 2 weeks and haven't really got a chance to do a decent wash, but the beading is still the same as when I first put it on. All I can say is - Awesome!

If you're going to try this product, I suggest this:

-apply 2 coats (to ensure an even layer throughout the whole car) using a foam applicator pad
-buff with a good microfiber cloth.
<optional> if you have a machine buffer, even those random orbital ones, use a MF bonnet and you will highten the shine even more.

JDM5lugHatch

I posted that right under Road Rage's review.

Road Rage

I did not know that, but it is great TO KNOW! Thanks! BTW, here is a link that sells the cleaner, even the excellent P21 drying syn-chamois.
http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bi...2Fnsearch.html

I wish i knew this vefore I ordered 2 tubs of the wax and 2 bottles of the cleaner! Doh!

dashotgun

They are not exactly the same according to the manufacturer the S100 has soemthing like 90 of the carunba of the ps 21 however given the price difference I think the S100 is well worth it and Iplan to buy some when my tub of ps21 is gone

Road Rage

What in the world does this mean? Carumba!

dashotgun

sorry my typing skills are lacking sometimes, I participate on autopia.org a dedicated auto detailing forum, The near equivalance of S100 and Ps21 has long been known there. Now as to why the Ps21 company has that particular sales model has long been debated. they were contacted at some point and said that the S100 is optimized for curved surfaces ie a motorcycle and that the Ps 21 was better for flat ie cars. AS best as the group could determine in practicl use it was hard to tell the difference except for price but supposedly the carnuba and shine coeficent ( what ever the heck that is) the S100 was 90 something percent of the Ps21. For my $ when the Ps21 jar is out I am going to head to my local Harley dealer and see if the carry the S100 line. Wax is worse then oil because in oils although a lot of hype there is some objective component to making a decision. With Wax it is mostly subjective. That being said Try some Souvrain it is better then the Ps 21 by far.

Road Rage

Thx for the further development of your original post.

There is plenty of science in both - reflectometers are commonly used to measure shine. And there are dozens of inidcators of an oil's capability. This is not voodoo.

I find the mfr's explanation of the "difference" between S100 and P21S laughable. If it were true, why then are there no "warnings" of "fitness of merchantability" that P21s is not for curvy cars? Define curvy someone. MY 1972 Corvette would be a bad candidate? Really, that is a a stretch. It either shines or it does not. That starts to get into the whole Zymol nonsense - car wax as a cultish religion.

The fact is, grades of carnauba are pretty well established, and the amounts of carnauba that are practical for car wax also well established. Carnauba, beeswax, montan, etc. are all natural substances, and unlike synthetic materials, not modifiable for certain applications, such as flat cars and curvy ones. This is quite unlike clear coats and all the various modern paint materials, which are. Lacquer, acrylic, polys, etc all "lay" differently, and there is a lot of art and skill involved even in which solvent to use. But just like cars, prep of the surface is more important than the final coat. A car's shine is made by how well it is polished and buffed; wax adds protection, fills swirls, and adds some sheen.

There is little magic in of the formulations IMO. The Pinnacle stuff has polymers in it, right?

dashotgun

no just hi grade carnuba and natural oils proper auto car pinnicle wax here is the same site on ps21ps 21

Vicman17

Unfortunately for most, there is that quest for the one simple product that will "do it all" with the most minimum of steps. Until I've seen what a properly prepared surface would end up after coats of sealant, polish and wax, I myself thought the more expensive the product is, the better shine my car will have even without the hardwork involved.

EZZ

That is why some people opt for great shine (like P21s) and other like me just care about a little shine and a lot of protection. Products like Klasse are easy to layer and help protect the paint but the shine isn't as great as using a combination such as the multiple Zaino products or Klasse w/P21s.

Road Rage

Uh, here is what Pinnacle says about their product - clearly has polymers in it.
http://www.pinnaclewax.com/waxes.html

dashotgun

okay still great shine not as durable as a pure polymer like Zaino or Klasse