Tappy116

.........I have read this Wash and Wax threads till my head is and

I would like to know what is the highly recomended product for my car (2002 tl-s WDP)...which i have never polished/waxed. .

So far I definatelly know i have to clay this badboy like crazy cause of a harsh winter and me being off to college (...so obiviouslly it wasnt taken care of to my standards)

1)what brand wash/sampoo
2)what brand clay and lube
3)what brand polish (and how many coats)
4)what brand wax/sealent (and how many coats)

**prices and places at which these products are avilble is greatly appreciated**

I'm willing to spend the 5-6 hours i will need to do the entire job....and do it right the first time around..

My car is used daily for drivin to work...so in the sun durring the day and parked in my garage at night.

Plus what heck do the number i see flying around everywhere in theses threads(ie. #16 or #21 when regarding waxes or somthing?)

THANKS ALOT GUYS and gals if any

VB87

http://www.autopia.org/display.php?f....htm&s=&menu=8

..for all those #__ you've been seeing around.

-Wash with NXT
-Clay with whatever there is avaliable to you.
-I've been using PPB polish, but Meguiars might be easier to get. I haven't used Meguiars yet so can't tell you which product to go with.
-Use synthetic wax (longer protection) then you can top it off with a carnauba wax for better looks. Klasse is a good sealant to use.

Hawhyen51

Tappy 116, your questions regarding what products to use will probably generate a lot of answers and most will be what we use mainly because of the results. You'll hear product names like Zaino, Klasse, Pinnacle, Menzerna, Wolfgang, 3M, Poor Boys, PS21, Blackfire, Megs and the list goes on and on and on. I think Zaino is a very popular product with the forum members. Me personally, I've used Megs NXT and Klasse. On the next detail, I'll be using Blackfire. My recommendation would be to visit a site like Autopia - How To, Staff Recommendations - Proper Auto Care and Better Car Care. These sites provide a tutorial as well as product recommendations for specific uses. Prices are also listed for products.

Here's a list of the products I use:
Shampoo and Wash: Megs NXT Wash, Lambskin Wash Mitt
Drying: MF Waffle Weave
Clay Bar: Clay Magic
Paint Protection: Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish, Blackfire AFPP, NXT
Interior: Aerospace 303, Megs Gold Class Leather Cleaner and Conditioner
Windows: Stoners Invisible Glass
Wheels & Tires: Megs Wheel Cleaner, Megs Hot Shine Tire Dressing
MF Polishing Cloths, Foam Wax Applicators

TOGWT

Sequence of Product Application:
Paint surfaces-
1. Car wash concentrate-
2. Detailer’s clay-
3. Machine polish 1-
4. Machine polish 2-
5. Machine polish 3-
6. Chemical cleaner-
7. Polymer sealant-
8. Glaze-
9. Carnauba wax-
10. Spray (Booster) wax-
11. Quick detailer-

Note: Not every step is necessary

Notes:
1. As long as you have an understanding of what each step does you can alter the sequence or omit steps in the sequence to suit paints condition / needs
2. You cannot apply a polymer over a Glaze or a Carnauba wax due to bonding incompatibility
3. A polish that contains oils should be cleaned with a 1:1 solution of Isopropyl alcohol / distilled water before the application of a polymer
4. Bonding- Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer; conversely if a polymer is applied on top of Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised. Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with oils will abort the cross-linking or bonding process of a polymer just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability may be affected

As Hawhyens suggested fill in the caps with products you likie to use /would like to try
JonM

Tappy116

thanks alot guys....these recomendations and links really helped.
And i hope i can get to detailing my car soon....but the weather hear still sucks

I think i might just buy the Megs NXT beginer kit...and get a feel for the proccess. then i will venture out into the anal nit pickky detailing!!

Vicman17

These are the brands that I have used as "tried and true" over the years:

1)what brand wash/shampoo:
Meguiar's Gold Class, Armor All, Turtle Wax Zip (dry with Cal. Water Blade, WW MF Towel)

2)what brand clay and lube:
Clay Magic, Mother's , Lube w/ Mother's Showtime, Meg's #34 FI (I clay once or twice per year)

3)what brand polish (and how many coats):
Meguiar's Deep Crystal, Meg's Professional #7
(2 coats)

4)what brand wax/sealant (and how many coats):
Sealant: Klasse AIO, Klasse Sealant Glaze or Meg's #20 (3-4 layers spaced 24 hrs apart)

Wax: Meg's #16, Meg's #26 HTYW or P21S/ S100 (1 coat every 2 weeks only after the sealant has bonded)

Hawhyen51

That's a good kit to start out with - inexpensive at about $50 or so. Make sure your surface is prepped (smooth as a baby's a$$) before you apply polish/wax. And while you're at it, pick up some MF polishing towels also. You can get them from Exceldetail or Pakshak. You could also get them from Sam's Club, Costco and I believe someone mentioned Walmart. Post some pix after you get done - have fun, Tappy!

Tappy116

This weekends weather sucked (rain.....rain ....rain and still in the 50s outside half way through spring)...well the good out of this ordeal was that i had more time to read and research detailing . I also had time to look around for prices.(basically checked online stores and my local Autozone) Autozone was a waste of time because they were out of everything.

Here is what i plain to buy:

Wash................Megs NXT wash
and lamb(or sheep) skin mitt


Dry...................Califronia Water Blade
and MF waffle Weave towel


Claying.............Clay Magic bar and Lube


Polish...............Blackfire Gloss Enhancing(what should i use to apply....MF cloth or pad...Brand/type)


Wax.................Megs NXT tech wax.(what should i use to apply....MF cloth or pad...Brand/type)

Will the NXT on top of the Blackfire be a problem???

This post took me a long time to write so please comment on my choices and feel free to recomend anything.

Hawhyen51

There was a post about whether or not NXT contained a cleaner or not. I don't remember so it's kinda hard to advise you on that. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try and see how it comes out. I know there were some folks who tried to layer it (NXT), lay one coat, wait 24 and then lay another one. You might want to consider a coat of Carnuba on top also. For application of polishes/waxes, I would recommend a foam or MF application pad. You can use car wash liquid as a lube for claying (cap full mixed with water in a spray bottle). As far as the water blade, I don't use it. Just let water run on to the surface (not spray) and let gravity do it's thing. The MF towel should take care of everything else.

Vicman17

The NXT step over BF could be redundant.

Blackfire, I believe is a sealant. NXT is somewhat of a sealant. I'm thinking it probably would be a problem. But again, if you let BF cure long enough, MAYBE NXT could be used to top it, without stripping the BF, but the question is: what for?

Sealants, I understand, can be layered, to provide you with the extra protection. Klasse, Menzerna, Meg's #20 and perhaps Blackfire. NXT on the other hand, is a synthetic "wax" that has some cleaning abilities, so that's probably why some say that it can't be layered. 2 coats of a product like NXT can just ensure uniform overall coverage.

I'm just speaking thru experience that perhaps you should think of topping BF off with just a Carnauba (meg's #26, Mother's pure carnauba, P21S) instead of NXT. If you are after a better shine and longevity of the finish, this would work.

My own thinking is "how much protection do I want over the clearcoat" and 3-4 layers of the Klasse sealant, then I'm thinking of 6 months or more. Now on the topper, if I add P21S every 2 weeks, I am probably ensuring that the layers of Klasse already on the finish deteriorated even slower (than if it was by itself) because of the layer of wax on top of it that takes the brunt of the elements.

Maybe a pro could comment on this..

exceldetail

NXT is a sealant, but it has a cleaner in it. Theres not enough cleaner in it to classify it as a cleaner/sealant however. #20 would fit that bill, its a great all in one type of synthetic sealant. NXT cannot be layerd due to this attribute. Blackfire, EX-P, UPP, are layerable sealants, as well as Klasse SG. Anymore than 3 layers is of little or no use.

Some like to top with carnaubas, its of my opinion that todays sealants mimmick carnaubas, and are even better that some. I no longer use carnaubas, i feel "the better mouse trap has been built". Just my $.02.

Tappy116

After much reading I found that

"BLACKFIRE Gloss Enhancing Polish is a non-abrasive, cleaner/ polish. Use Gloss Enhancing Polish to remove old wax, clean the top paint surface, reduce swirls and deepen the paint’s gloss. It “wets” the surface to create the illusion of the paint being under water. Gloss Enhancing polish hides minor swirls and scratches without removing any paint or clear coat. It "rounds-over" the top edge of swirls which robs sunlight of a sharp edge to cause a reflection."

"...Gloss Enhancing polish offers no long term protection."

so this scratches my idea about layering and using it with NXT because both are cleaners so they would just cancel each other out.

I'm back to ground zero....need to figure out what to polish with and what to wax and seal with.

exceldetail

Your referring to the BF POLISH! Polishes, naturally, ARENT LAYERABLE.

Hawhyen51

You can still use the BF Gloss Enhancing Polish and then top it with the All Finish Paint Protection. Check this link on Blackfire.

Vicman17

This seems to be designed as a pair like the Klasse twins. Either way, you can't go wrong. The only thing you need to do is experiment and see what works for you.

Polish is just a product that adds some oils to the finish and as the name implies, it "polishes" the finish and leaves it with deep shine and gloss. You would want to "lock-in" that shine that you have just worked hard on and seal it with a good poly/ acrylic sealant.

Tappy116

I am placing an order for the BlackFire new car kit for $49.95 at properautocare.com

It seems simple and doesn't require as many steps and coats as the klasse.

Plus this is my first time....simple is better...All i have to do know is just buy some clay

* 1 16 oz. BLACKFIRE Gloss Enhancing Polish
* 1 16 oz. BLACKFIRE All Finish Paint Protection
* 1 16 oz. BLACKFIRE Gloss Shampoo & Conditioner
* 2 Microfiber Applicator Pads
* 2 Microfiber Wipe Towels
* 1 Foam Wax Applicator
* 1 Instructions

I might first wash with Megs NXT...then clay then wash with Blackfire gloss shampoo and conditioner because it contains polymers to help minimize washing swirls and improve water sheeting.

I dont want to coat the paint with something before i clay right?

Tappy116

Bought it.....waiting for shipping

WILL post pics once i actually get the stuff, the weather is premitting and i have the time.


bad news....another weekend forcast with rain (that makes it 4 weekends in a row with rain)

joerockt

Dont waste your money on that water blade. I personaly think its worthless.

Invest in a big waffle weave microfiber towel instead.

Tappy116

too late......ebayed it awhile ago...wait for it right now

worst comes worst....i'll use it to squeege my bathtub

exceldetail

Be patient with the Blackfire, its NOT the easiest product to use. However, it does yield incredible results with time......Its not a wipe on, wipe off product.....

aaronnn

this is an awesome thread.. i learned alot too. and ive been cleaning my cars for years. sounds like im gonna have to go shopping for these products myself and try these out. thanks guys.

Tappy116

aaronn i didnt imagine this thread actually growing either...but people have been helpful

I bet you really liked the post with the product pics...right (mad props to myself)

JUsT kiding

yunginTL

get klasse SG and AIO

Tappy116

Too late....already ordered the Blackfire...and i think i'll be happy with it (hopefully)

P.S. 1)what should i use to apply polish...(MF towel, MF pad, or Foam pad)

2)what should i use to apply wax(MF towel, MF pad or Foam pad)

joerockt

Wow, good one! Maybe I now have a use for that thing...

joerockt

I would say Foam pads. MF towels are good for getting the stuff off...

aaronng

Polish: If you want more cut, use a cotton terry applicator. For less cut, use a foam applicator.

Wax: Use a foam applicator.

To buff, I use microfibre towels

PenguinQX

iTrader: (1)

Here's what I do, pretty simple and looks nice... not terribly time intensive either:

Body:
1) Wash w/ Meg's NXT
2) Dry w/ Cali Water Blade+Microfiber towels
3) Claybar w/ Mother's Clay
4) Repeat steps 1+2
5) Wax w/ Meg's NXT wax

Wheels:
1) Meg's wheel cleaner + wipe down with an old t-shirt/undershirt
2) Meg's tire shine

Glass:
1) Claybar with old clay not suitable for paint
2) Wipe down with invisible glass
3) RainX

Gixxster

So no matter what the products are, the basic procedure is:

wash & dry
clay
wash & dry
polish
wax
sealant/protector

btw great thread Tappy
and thanks to everyone else for the great input

Tappy116

Yup thats the procedure i'm gonna use.....and i finally got the Blackfire wash,polish, and wax kit today.

But unfortunately it is forcasted to rain this whole week and into the weekend.

F***in New England Weather

Tappy116

What do you mean by this....can you elaborate.

What is your proccess of appilcation of The BF products?

skgarach

Are waxes and sealants the same thing or different? Some people talk about it as if it were the same thing and others list it as different steps?

VB87

Wax/Sealant, pretty much the same thing, it protects the paint. There's carnauba wax and there's synthetic wax.

Carnauba wax - looks better, less durability.
Synthetic wax - Have to layer a few times to get the same look at carnauba, better durability.

skgarach

OK, if i use carwash soap, will it wash off the current layer of synwax i have on there?

Vicman17

A simpler way of looking at it is:

Anything that has no natural waxes, carnauba, etc... is a sealant. (Klasse, Blackfire, NXT, Menzerna, Megs #20). Does not have the depth of Carnauba by itself but CAN be topped off with Carnauba to enhance the shine and durability (provided you use a NON Cleaner Wax).

Anything that has any trace of Carnauba or natural waxes (Zymol, P21S, Megs #16/ #26, Mother Pure Carnauba). Like any natural wax product comes off the finish after a few weeks.

If you do not wish to go to a multi-step procedure and just want a simple regular single product application, a good cleaner wax like Meg's #6 Cleaner Wax or ColorX will do every few weeks. Boost the "slickiness" with Eagle One Wax as U Dry between coats.

Vicman17

Most new car wash soap are formulated NOT to remove any wax from finishes. Some even add a layer of diluted Carnauba wax. If you wish to stip off any wax from your finish to start over you can:

1.) Wash using plain blue Dawn soap. Not a very popular idea among good detailers.

2.) Use a paint cleaner like Meg's Deep Crystal #1

3.) Clay the car. Probably the best method IMO, and removes all contaminants from the clearcoat better than 1.) and 2.)