soundgarden

So I was driving around and saw a laser car wash center. Has anyone ever tried it? Is it bad for your car? After my first (and last) experience taking my car to a car wash, I am pretty weary. But now, I am getting slightly lazy, so I was just wondering...

(I did a quick search in the forums for this, but didn't find too much)

Thanks very much...

Anubus12

i am interested in the same topic. Anyone with experience?

stogie1020

OK, I will bite. What was the laser part of the wash? Is that just to control the actuation of the mechanical brushes so they don't press too hard against the car? Still wouldn't solve the problem of the debris in the brushed from the last dirty car. OR, are the lasers used to remove the debris on the paint, and are possibly attached to the heads of sharks?

Stop in and ask them for some details for all of us!!

Personally I want a guard-beagle with lasers... So if the technology is there... WooHoo!

TOGWT

‘Touch less’ carwash: (perhaps 'laser wash' gives this a whole new meaning?

I was researching information for an article (Chemicals and methods used in automatic car washes) this is part of that article-

‘Touch less’ carwash:
Touch less car washes today use Hydrofluoric acid as a first step and then an alkaline to neutralize the acid then high pressure water to wash cars. Hand washing is MUCH preferred, don’t use an automated car wash period, touch less or not, there are a variety of reasons: You should never, under any circumstances use a car wash that requires you to let another person drive your vehicle onto the ramps or into the wash, notice the disclaimer

“No responsibility for damage to customer’s vehicle.”

Local by-laws require car washes to re-claim or recycle water. This means they have two choices.
a) They can collect the water in tanks and pay to truck it away to a recycling centre.
b) They can filter and then recycle the water (dependant on how often the filters are cleaned/changed) will effect how much dirt content there is. Recycled meaning re-use the same water, which may include any road dirt/grit that is not filtered out is used to high-pressure (1,000PSI) wash your vehicle (somewhat similar to sandblasting) the final rinse is usually twice-filtered re-cycled water, this is to give the appearance of a clean surface on the vehicle.

c) To help clean the recycled water they use a chemical like Presidium Orthophosphate (TSP) and have the chemical formula Na3PO4. It is a highly water-soluble ionic salt. Solutions of it dissolved in water have an alkaline pH; this does a great job stripping your wax / sealant. TSP is generally not good for cleaning vehicles because it can corrode metal.

•To remove snow/sand/road dirt and grit without agitation (brushes etc) requires the use of very strong chemical cleaners.
•Probably the most important is that this type of automatic car wash use high-pressure water and strong alkaline detergent to clean vehicles that will strip the wax/polish
•You will also need to renew the vehicles sealant / wax to ensure the paint surface protection on a regular basis to counteract the effects of the harsh detergents.
•Also be aware of those that use ‘wheel guides’ as they will cause scratches / etching to the wheel surfaces, as many wash facilities will not accommodate either the tyre width or the clearance, thus causing sidewall damage
•Vehicle with lower than ‘standard’ suspension (Corvette C6 and other sports cars) should also be aware the wheel guides could cause body damage
•As an alternative in colder winter months I would suggest using a waterless vehicle cleaning product Protect All’s Quick Easy Wash (QEW)
•If you get a chance, attend a car wash / wax vendors symposiums where they give demonstrations of the different soap products that these type of facilities use, as a Chemical Engineer they scare me.. You'll come away a convert to never using them again, on any vehicle.
(See also Hydrogen Fluoride (HF)

Hydrofluoric Acid (SiO2):
Cleaning paint (inc wheel surfaces) - ten or more years ago this method was widely used by body-shops and detailers to remove water spots from paint surfaces, however, as time progressed, we started to see metallic paints darken under the clear coat.

Hydrofluoric acid is also notoriously known to react with glass. On factory aluminium wheel surfaces, acrylic polyurethane finishes or polyester powdered coatings it will occlude (cloud) an indication that the finish surface has been compromised, it also produces micro hairline cracks, and will eventually fail.

Most of the larger automotive paint suppliers (PPG, DuPont and BASF) do not recommend this type of chemical to be used on their paints. Stating that the acid, even if thoroughly flushed with water had already compromised the clear coat and given time would also compromise the paint system, dependant on the environment the vehicle was subjected, to over a period of 2-3 years it was possible that the clear coat would occlude (cloud) indicative of clear coat failure as the acid breaks down the paints binder system.

It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys. It has an NFPA health rating of 3; Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given
Note: Muriatic acid is also a form of hydrochloric acid.
Safety / health information- http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/inst...e76/l76_01.asp

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Note: Do not confuse hydrochloric acid (HCI) with hydrofluoric (HF) acid because of the similarity of names. On the skin, hydrochloric acid burns from the outside in. Hydrofluoric acid solution readily penetrates the skin and burns both skin and deeper tissues. If enough acid is absorbed, it may lethally affect the heart and nervous system.

Ammonium hydrogen fluoride NH4HF2 (or Ammonium bifluoride) is misclassified as the safe alternative to hydrogen fluoride, once mixed with water it becomes hydrogen fluoride one of the most common, and dangerous, acid wheel cleaners used in automatic carwashes today. Its effectiveness removing brake dust and difficult contaminants from wheels is undisputed, but most chemists say Ammonium bifluoride presents an unjustifiable and potentially lethal risk to carwash operators and their employees. Ammonium bifluoride sometimes known as ammonium fluoride or ammonium hydrogen fluoride is a crystalline salt formed when ammonium hydroxide reacts with hydrogen fluoride. Through a complicated chemical reaction, it essentially becomes hydrogen fluoride when mixed with water or liquid cleaning solutions.

Similar to hydrogen fluoride, Ammonium bifluoride was originally developed for industrial uses, like etching glass, removing oxides from metals and eliminating mineral stains from stone, glass and porcelain
(See also Water acting as a catalyst for Acid, Hydrogen Fluoride (SiO2)

Information resource- Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/
Professional Carwashing & Detailing Magazine - http://www.carwash.com/article.asp?IndexID=6631269

stogie1020

Did you ever find out what this is?

paradigm

there is a "laser wash" near me...it is a touchless wash where you drive in (without those evil rails that destroy rims)...with a stop light type of display in the bay. the nice thing is as you pull in the underbody is flushed with floor jets...and there is no time limit...you can go as slow through it as you want...great for salt removal in the winter!

you pull ahead until you see the red STOP flash...then a few spray arms (shaped like half-U's) move around and go through the various goo steps, rinse, "wax" spray, etc.

i like this for the underbody flush only...the rest i could care less about since i do ONR washes exclusively now.

Chas2

LaserWash is a touchless car washing system manufactured by PDQ Manufacturing, Inc. of Depere, WI.

The first LaserWash 4000 was developed in 1989 and has seen two follow on units, the G5 and the M5 in 2000 and 2005, respectively.

www.pdqinc.com

paradigm

nice link, Chas2...that's exactly what i was talking about. linked off of the PDQ page is the hideous one with the rail and brushes...
http://www.spectrawash.com/LightTouch/index.shtml

06TSXVanBC

Well shame on me. My 06 TSX, which I picked up in May 06, had the paint selant applied. I've taken it to the touchless and, when the car isn't too dirty, it doesn't seem to work that bad. What i didn't know was how bad it is. I've probably done it about 10 times. Have i destroyed the paint/paint sealant?

And another thing, at the same touchless place, there are bays where you stick change into the machine and wash the car yourself. I've never used it to 'wash' the car, but i always stick in a twonie(yah im canadian) and use the rinse option - especially after driving in the rain or snow/salt. Is this a good idea? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

i need to find a place that does underbody flush... the salt is killer on our cars...

paradigm

i think it's a great thing to do. since i am doing all ONR washes now...if there is too much dirt/salt on the paint i will use the self-wash bay to rinse off everything (making sure to get under the vehicle as best as possible) and then roll into the garage in winter to finish with ONR.

many people have the mentality "it's winter...it'll just get full of salt and junk again so i'm not washing it every week". that's the big mistake...you want to rinse off the salt before it has time to react much and begin corroding under the vehicle...and destroying the paint finish too.

.02

TpSC3crT

iTrader: (1)

this is new stuff to me..

Anubus12

What is ONR?

Hawhyen51

Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine

Anubus12

Interesting. What is your step by step process for cleaning your car with this?

proudacuraownr

I bought a turbo washer at walmart. There in the auto section. I put the soft suds soap into it and wash the underbody on my acura. It works pretty well because its pressurized soap and water. It gets mud and dirt out without a problem.