Suspension conundrum...
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Suspension conundrum...
As of not too long ago, I've been spending more time driving my summer toy while the TL sat parked. Well, about two weeks ago I decided to take the TL out and I kept thinking "man, the handling feels like shit on this car"
Granted, I've been a bit spoiled by the summer toy, but there's something definitely not right with the TL and it started pulling to the RIGHT even though I know I didnt hit anything. I knew I had the compliance bushings left to do, so I figured that was likely the cause of my grief. When I pulled out the lower control arms, I figured since I was already in there that I would replace all 6 bushings on the arms (3 per side). Oddly enough, none of the bushings were really even all that bad. I'd rate the compliance bushings at like a 7.0-7.5/10, in terms of wear.
When I was taking the car apart, I noticed the inside of my LEFT tire is worn badly. Like a 1" wide strip of very worn tire compared to the rest.
The TL has new sway bar end links, new compliance bushings, and new 4 other bushings. Upper ball joints don't generally need to be replaced, so I'm ruling those out- could it be my lower ball joints are pooched? How can I tell if they are? They looked okay when I seperated them from the LCA and I haven't heard any sound coming from my suspension...
Is this just a case of me needing an alignment or is there something else I should look into? I feel like the uneven tire wear happened rather quickly (although I can't prove that). If that is the case, I dont want to be driving the car on some new summer tires I have for it (the worn tires are winters and this was their last season, however, that one tire was weirdly worn even more).
Thoughts? Ideas? What to check? Don't think it matters, but the car is a 2006 TL 6MT
Granted, I've been a bit spoiled by the summer toy, but there's something definitely not right with the TL and it started pulling to the RIGHT even though I know I didnt hit anything. I knew I had the compliance bushings left to do, so I figured that was likely the cause of my grief. When I pulled out the lower control arms, I figured since I was already in there that I would replace all 6 bushings on the arms (3 per side). Oddly enough, none of the bushings were really even all that bad. I'd rate the compliance bushings at like a 7.0-7.5/10, in terms of wear.
When I was taking the car apart, I noticed the inside of my LEFT tire is worn badly. Like a 1" wide strip of very worn tire compared to the rest.
The TL has new sway bar end links, new compliance bushings, and new 4 other bushings. Upper ball joints don't generally need to be replaced, so I'm ruling those out- could it be my lower ball joints are pooched? How can I tell if they are? They looked okay when I seperated them from the LCA and I haven't heard any sound coming from my suspension...
Is this just a case of me needing an alignment or is there something else I should look into? I feel like the uneven tire wear happened rather quickly (although I can't prove that). If that is the case, I dont want to be driving the car on some new summer tires I have for it (the worn tires are winters and this was their last season, however, that one tire was weirdly worn even more).
Thoughts? Ideas? What to check? Don't think it matters, but the car is a 2006 TL 6MT
#2
Team Owner
Thread Starter
FFS... due to a certain lazy member ... Cliff's notes:
1. TL drove fine.
2. TL sat for a week.
3. next time I drove the TL it pulled to the right and I didn't hit anything
4. I replaced all LCA bushings (it was time to do so)
5. Haven't driven the car since replacing bushings.
6. I'll be going for an alignment shortly
7. Is there anything else that could be messed up? lower ball joints? How can I tell?
8. Anything else that could be pooched?
1. TL drove fine.
2. TL sat for a week.
3. next time I drove the TL it pulled to the right and I didn't hit anything
4. I replaced all LCA bushings (it was time to do so)
5. Haven't driven the car since replacing bushings.
6. I'll be going for an alignment shortly
7. Is there anything else that could be messed up? lower ball joints? How can I tell?
8. Anything else that could be pooched?
#3
Team Owner
Thread Starter
FFS yet again... summer toy is a Miata. Happy?!
#5
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Yeah, an alignment is cheap, but if my ball joint is messed, I don't want to pay $60 now and $60 again a week later.
Maj, where are you?! Give me your advices!! Don't make me take this to 3G ramblings...
Maj, where are you?! Give me your advices!! Don't make me take this to 3G ramblings...
#8
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Toe and camber.. at minimum, get the toe back in order.
#9
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Any chance it can be the tie rods going? I've never really heard of people replacing them on the 3G, although I could be wrong...
#10
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I was thinking toe is out also, but hoping I could check other stuff. I found an old 2G post about checking suspension...
"You're describing "unloading the ball joints", which is necessary on many cars. It does NOT apply to our front ends. Both upper and lower ball joints are unloaded with the wheels hanging free.
Typically, just grab the tire and try to shake. Play at 12:00, upper ball joint. Play at 6:00, lower ball joint. Play at 9:00 or 3:00, tie rods or steering linkage."
I'm gonna try that when I get home tonight
"You're describing "unloading the ball joints", which is necessary on many cars. It does NOT apply to our front ends. Both upper and lower ball joints are unloaded with the wheels hanging free.
Typically, just grab the tire and try to shake. Play at 12:00, upper ball joint. Play at 6:00, lower ball joint. Play at 9:00 or 3:00, tie rods or steering linkage."
I'm gonna try that when I get home tonight
#12
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Don't judge me.
#13
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Ball joint is easy.. check if it's taught. If it has a lot of play, press a new one in. Make sure you spec the castle nut and put a new cotter pin back. I doubt it's out and definitely wouldn't make it pull right. Are you on aftermarket suspension?
Also, salad for thought.. if the left tire has inside wear, that means the camber and toe are probably out. The left side is not only applying more force rightward, but with that wear, more traction as well.
Report back your numbers when you get them.
Also, salad for thought.. if the left tire has inside wear, that means the camber and toe are probably out. The left side is not only applying more force rightward, but with that wear, more traction as well.
Report back your numbers when you get them.
#14
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I was thinking toe is out also, but hoping I could check other stuff. I found an old 2G post about checking suspension...
"You're describing "unloading the ball joints", which is necessary on many cars. It does NOT apply to our front ends. Both upper and lower ball joints are unloaded with the wheels hanging free.
Typically, just grab the tire and try to shake. Play at 12:00, upper ball joint. Play at 6:00, lower ball joint. Play at 9:00 or 3:00, tie rods or steering linkage."
I'm gonna try that when I get home tonight
"You're describing "unloading the ball joints", which is necessary on many cars. It does NOT apply to our front ends. Both upper and lower ball joints are unloaded with the wheels hanging free.
Typically, just grab the tire and try to shake. Play at 12:00, upper ball joint. Play at 6:00, lower ball joint. Play at 9:00 or 3:00, tie rods or steering linkage."
I'm gonna try that when I get home tonight
Definitely get a year alignment deal. Usually an alignment is 50-80.. or 1yr/3yr deal for less than the cost of 2 alignments. You might be back again, or decide on fking with the suspension, so it's worth it. Worst case, say you traded in your TL for the miata and it becomes transferable to the new car.
#15
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Suspension is more or less stock. A-Spec struts with Eibach springs, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe H&R springs. I don't remember. Wasn't my choice, but what the car came with.
Other than that, up front, everything is stock. FSB, end links, bushings, control arms, ball joints, tie rods, you name it.
I'm gonna take it for an alignment tomorrow. My girl at the service department is hooking me up. The Honda dealer she works at charges $69.99 for an alignment on unmodified cars. It's $120 if modified in any way, shape, or form. I'm getting the $69.99 price.
Other than that, up front, everything is stock. FSB, end links, bushings, control arms, ball joints, tie rods, you name it.
I'm gonna take it for an alignment tomorrow. My girl at the service department is hooking me up. The Honda dealer she works at charges $69.99 for an alignment on unmodified cars. It's $120 if modified in any way, shape, or form. I'm getting the $69.99 price.
#16
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Why not 34.50? You guys don't have legit tire shops up there that do 1/3 yr deals?
#17
Team Owner
Thread Starter
#19
Senior Moderator
I feel you doe, I would hate to do an alignment and realize my shit was broken and it would need another one. One thing to note if you're afraid it's tie rods or other component is ideally the competent tech doing the alignment would see something wrong and say "HMMM this tie rod looks bad, I won't be able to do an alignment " and you can go from there..
But then again this is canada, I question everything out there..
Except poutine
#20
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Update!! Update!!!
Well, I finally put my summer tires on yesterday evening. Gave the wheels a firm shake at 12:00, no movement. Gave the wheels a firm shake at 6:00, no movement. Gave the wheels a shake at 3:00 and 9:00, no movement.
After reassembling everything, I took the car for a drive... it drives straight again, lol. Yay! No need for an alignment. I'm sure errrthang is jus' fine
Well, I finally put my summer tires on yesterday evening. Gave the wheels a firm shake at 12:00, no movement. Gave the wheels a firm shake at 6:00, no movement. Gave the wheels a shake at 3:00 and 9:00, no movement.
After reassembling everything, I took the car for a drive... it drives straight again, lol. Yay! No need for an alignment. I'm sure errrthang is jus' fine
#21
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Kidding. Took the car in for alignment this morning. Should have it back in a couple hours (didn't want to sit around waiting). Will update if my toe was just out of whack.
#22
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
#24
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
#25
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Hahaha, this really is the undercover 3G ramblings...
Car is waiting to be picked up. I won't be able to grab it for another 90 minutes though... Tied up on AZ
I'm hoping the alignment I've magic cure. Secretly, I'm still thinking the bushings were responsible... The car stopped pulling to the side after replacing them. That, or the other wheel was knocked out of alignment the same amount to cause the car to track straight
Car is waiting to be picked up. I won't be able to grab it for another 90 minutes though... Tied up on AZ
I'm hoping the alignment I've magic cure. Secretly, I'm still thinking the bushings were responsible... The car stopped pulling to the side after replacing them. That, or the other wheel was knocked out of alignment the same amount to cause the car to track straight
#26
Race Director
I seriously doubt the bushings were responsible for the pull.
But since the struts are not stock, it's possible whoever installed them did not follow proper procedures when bolting everything back after the install (e.g. put weight on each side before torqueing everything down).
It's possible that just a simple, correct re-torqueing after changing out the bushings is all it took to fix the pulling issue.
Or maybe not, we'll have to see what the alignment shop says to get a complete picture...
But since the struts are not stock, it's possible whoever installed them did not follow proper procedures when bolting everything back after the install (e.g. put weight on each side before torqueing everything down).
It's possible that just a simple, correct re-torqueing after changing out the bushings is all it took to fix the pulling issue.
Or maybe not, we'll have to see what the alignment shop says to get a complete picture...
#27
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I seriously doubt the bushings were responsible for the pull.
But since the struts are not stock, it's possible whoever installed them did not follow proper procedures when bolting everything back after the install (e.g. put weight on each side before torqueing everything down).
It's possible that just a simple, correct re-torqueing after changing out the bushings is all it took to fix the pulling issue.
Or maybe not, we'll have to see what the alignment shop says to get a complete picture...
But since the struts are not stock, it's possible whoever installed them did not follow proper procedures when bolting everything back after the install (e.g. put weight on each side before torqueing everything down).
It's possible that just a simple, correct re-torqueing after changing out the bushings is all it took to fix the pulling issue.
Or maybe not, we'll have to see what the alignment shop says to get a complete picture...
For all I know, wifey may have taken the TL and hit a pothole and wouldn't admit to it, lol. Leaving soon to pick the car up. Yay!
#28
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I got the car back... and it works! Alignment solved the problem... looks like I'll be having a chat with Wifey regarding how the alignment was "mysteriously" out... *stink eye*
#29
Team Owner
Thread Starter
#30
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
dat camel toe! I wonder if the rears were purposely out-of-spec..
#31
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Not that far out of spec! I actually haven't noticed any uneven tire wear with that camber. Yay for me. Gotta be able to hit them corners at light speed
#33
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
:pb: It doesn't seem like much but even a little will be polarizing. There's a lot of force involved and it magnifies the faster the wheels are spinning + add in the additional traction from the inner wear.
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polobunny (05-15-2015)
#34
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I could be wrong, but I think :pb: meant that he would have expected the car to pull to the left with the left toe being out. I'm just pulling straws here though.
#35
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
/ |
Hence the pulling to the right.
#36
Registered Bunny
So maybe pressure the wifey about the left wheel. WHAT DID SHE DO??
#37
Senior Moderator
conundrum solved! let the salad tossing continue!!
or did it ever end...
The wife probably hit a curb or something
#38
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
It's not unusual for the toe to go out-of-spec. Surprisingly, Justn's toe was fine when he hopped the curb. I mean his wheel came off but it stayed straight.
The following users liked this post:
polobunny (05-16-2015)
#39
Team Owner
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