beekermartin

My 2005 just turned 110K. I just bought it a few months back and have been fixing it up. I have done just about everything I can think of except the struts/shocks. They aren't leaking or rattling or anything but I don't feel the car rides as smooth as it should. I would hate to spend all the time and money replacing them if it won't improve the ride. They don't appear to be blown but I assume after 110k miles they are fairly worn out.

pcloadletter

Probably not worth the cost as there are no aftermarket options available better than stock. Plus it is a PITA to get to the upper rear shock mounts as the rear seats, airbag trim and rear deck needs to be removed for access.

beekermartin

I understand it is labor intensive. Luckily I work for a Honda dealer and the techs will help me do it. Having access to a lift helps a lot!

Basically what I am wondering is if replacing the shocks would improve the ride quality? Currently it seems to ride harder/harsher than I feel it should. Some of that could have to do with the the 18" A-spec wheels and Michelin Sport AS3 100 Y rated tires. I have been running at 33 psi in the front and 31 in the rear. Maybe I should try lowering it a few psi???

lazytik

Are you thinking of replacing with OEM, or with KYB? Does anyone else have any input on whether I should go for KYB from XLR8? I'm at 126k and thinking of replacing suspension soon.

beekermartin

I was planning on going with oem parts. I try to always use oem unless am aftermarket part is proven to be superior. Or substantially cheaper of course.

Nersh7

You seem to have a fixation on only using oem. Here's my take on it, if you will. Car manufacturers makes large quantities of these parts, they have tools they build to make this an economical undertaking. Anything they have to make outside of the parts they made in the production runs of the model have a re-tooling cost. This cost is built into the cost of the extra parts they make and all that they have to make on top, if a back-order reaches a certain quantity, or production slows. Due to the large quantity in parts they have to make the tolerance for failure is higher than would it would be from a company who is only making 100 of one item. Yes they are made out of highly engineered materials but their teams are dedicated to building whole cars, not just single items.

Companies like KYB and Excellerate specialize in the parts that they do build. The tolerances are much tighter and the attention to quality is much higher. Because they specialize in a few types of parts they are able to do a couple of things really well and keep costs down because the products are all generally similar.

Either way, I respect the fact that you're asking lot's of questions but the questions you're asking seem like they're based off of very little research. Also, don't ever cheap out on suspension, I did it and it sucked, absolutely ruined my CL for me.

/rant

TLDR - OEM parts aren't that great, aftermarket companies are generally pretty good at what they do. Don't cheap out on suspension.

beekermartin

So if I decide to replace my shocks what brand would you recommend? Your saying don't cheap out on suspension but your not saying what brands we should consider.

beekermartin

It looks like KYB is the most popular brand I have found so far. Do you feel they are as good as the OEM shocks?

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

I'm a huge advocate for aftermarket parts, and to be honest, I would normally say the same thing that Nersh7 says. Struts is the only point I would go against with my "Buy aftermarket" mantra simply because of my experience with it. I went thru more strut combinations than I care to count on my Camry and I put KYB's on my 1G RL when I had it... Honestly, nothing rides quite like OEM struts. I hate to be the one that pushes it, but I'm replacing with OEM struts when the day comes, even though it adds up to ~600$!

edit: Butt dyno on both the RL and (lowered) Camry told me that OE rides like just that, OE. KYB is great, but the application scope is sometimes broader. IIRC, the KYB struts for the Camry were crosslisted for like two other models that shared the same frame but have different weight specs.

beekermartin

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it! Has anyone here installed the KYB's and been happy with them?

Nersh7

I can't offer an opinion on what combo set to go with because I haven't tried any other set than the A-spec kit, because that's what my car came with.

oo7spy

You will 100% see a difference between 9 year old struts (with ANY mileage) and new struts. Springs will last forever. Struts are a wear and tear item. When I had Legend #1, I replaced all 4 struts with Monroes at ~140k and the difference was unbelievable. By that, I mean I couldn't believe I waited until 140k miles to do it. In retrospect, they needed it at 114k when I had bought it.

Obviously, I am okay with aftermarket. However, I am not sold on the KYB. For everything that Nersh points out, the cost is remarkably low which means corners were cut somewhere. From the few reviews I read, I wouldn't dare put them on a 4,000 lb pig that thinks it has sport. IMO, every other option is on the table. OEM, Aspec, Tien, Mugen, Amuse, or Largus all get an okay from me, but KYB gets the .

beekermartin

I had a feeling the KYB's were too cheap to be a good option. It sounds like OEM is the way to go. They are twice as expensive but changing them is time consuming and I don't want to have to do it again because the ones I buy suck.

deepdezal

IMO--KYB has been making great shocks/struts for all sorts for car manufacturers.. And Honda/Acura doesn't have a factory that just builds shocks & struts.. Instead Honda contracts this and many other parts out to other companies...

I have used KYBs products for many years and haven't encounter any flaws.

Deepdezal

beekermartin

I emailed KYB asking if the struts they sell for the RL were designed exclusively for the RL. When I get a response I will post it here. It would be nice to know who makes the OEM struts for Acura.

beekermartin

The part number for the KYB struts is exclusive to the RL. The rep said they are designed for the RL and should perform as well or better than the OEM struts.

Of course he is going to say they will work as good or better. I am not surprised that he said that. I am happy to know they were designed for the RL only. So maybe they are worth trying???

lazytik

i'm in the same boat as you - trying to decide b/w KYB and OEM. On my old TL, I dropped it, and though they were Tokico and not KYB, they failed in like 30k miles. Since this RL I'm keeping stock and a daily driver, I'm probably going to go with OEM... the price diff is about $150 or so from what I sourced.

Good luck with it! I'm going to wait till around December or so to change all 4 corners + front motor mount.

Frenetic

Would anyone mind sharing the dealer price for parts and labor to get this done?

ExcelerateRep

If you have the budget for a set of coilovers, I recommend looking into the Tein Comfort Sport model. They are designed to give the RL a more sporty feel while maintaining a smooth, civilized ride. We have them available for $1,734.
TEIN Dampers - Comfort Sport - Excelerate Performance - Japanese and European Performance Specialists!!

The coilovers may be out of your budget, in which case we do carry the KYB GR-2 struts.
KYB GR-2 / Excel-G Gas Shocks - Excelerate Performance - Japanese and European Performance Specialists!!

You could combine these with H&R Sport Springs which would lower the RL about 1.5 inches.
H&R Springs - Sport Springs - Excelerate Performance - Japanese and European Performance Specialists!!

beekermartin

I ended up ordering the KYB front struts. I will post an update once I get them installed. I really wanted to go with oem but I found the KYBs on eBay for $140 for two. At that price they are worth trying. I figure they have to perform better than the original struts with 114k miles on them.

Frenetic

Notice a big ride improvement?

beekermartin

I had the KYB struts installed today. I only went for a quick ride but I can already tell they are better than the 115k miles original struts. I will post again after I get to put a few hundred miles on them. Hopefully they hold up for a few years. If not it only cost me $140 for the parts and $60 to have them installed.

Frenetic

Thanks. That's really cheap for the install costs.

beekermartin

I work for a Honda dealer. My techs did it for me on the side. They like me! lol

I only did the front so far. The rears don't seem to be bad.

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

If you want stock or close to stock, one word from my experience so far. Koni. Enough adjust-ability for a DD or a weekend racer. Mine's lowered but the Koni's themselves have great adjust-ability. Nice for long drives or weekend thrashing. Adjustable perches so you can change ride height if you want or keep it at stock. I'll be going for Tien's later on for my other car since I will be racing that. Either way you wont go wrong.

MADDOGJR

Only if they are leaking.

NBP04TL4ME

If you can find another deal on a rear set, I would probably do them. No matter how good the rears feel / look there is no debating a 114K mile difference. Plus you HAVE to take advantage of the labor discount.

I hate cars

That's not even close to accurate. The shocks begin degrading from the first time you drive the car unless you drive on perfect streets and never brake, corner, or accelerate lol. An external leak only means there's severe wear and you're getting oil past a seal. They will begin leaking internally long before you see any outside evidence.


I'm very picky and I replaced my OEM shocks at around 40,000 miles. I bought the car new so I knew how it should feel. It wasn't a huge difference from new but it was enough to bother me. At 100,000 miles you can be assured the shocks are ready to be replaced, leaking or not, they're leaking internally.


The problem with shocks is the performance degrades very slowly and near linearly over time. You don't realize how bad they've gotten until you replace them and the car feels completely different.


As for brands, KYB are an ok OEM style replacement but they tend to be unnecessarily stiff. By unnecessarily still I mean the ride is on the firm side yet the body and suspension damping is not that great. I would probably go OEM over KYB if cost was in the same ballpark.


Koni is where it's at. They're light years ahead of most. They can be set to match the stock firmness and comfort level yet they offer better body and suspension control/damping. They also have a huge range of adjustment from a little softer than stock to extremely firm. This is important because the shock damping should match the spring and swaybar rates which means you can swap springs and swaybars all you want and still have the correct amount of damping available.


Koni shocks also offer height adjustments. They were perfect for me in the beginning. I didn't want a car that looked lowered but the 3G TL looked like a 4x4 in the front with it's fender gap. Setting the fronts on the low setting and lowering the front 3/4" made a huge difference in appearance.

MADDOGJR

Vehicle manufacturers understand that there is little reason to spend millions of dollars developing the ride and handling qualities of a new vehicle's suspension if they are going to omit integrating the influence of its Original Equipment tires. This has resulted in either completely new tire designs or fine-tuned versions of existing designs being engineered for every new car and light truck from the beginning of the vehicle's development process.
There was a time in America when it was thought that the only reasons a vehicle manufacturer chose Original Equipment tires were "how wide were the whitewalls" and "which manufacturer would sell their bias ply tires for the lowest price." Well even if that had been true, times have changed and neither whitewalls nor cheap bias ply tires are used on vehicles today.
Part of the reason for this is because tire comfort and tire performance directly correlate with the driver's overall vehicle satisfaction. Original Equipment tires play an integral role in achieving the vehicle's desired comfort and performance capabilities, and greatly influence the vehicle's personality. And as vehicles have evolved, so have OE tires. For the most part, today's vehicles are lighter, more fuel-efficient and more responsive than those built a decade ago. This has caused corresponding reductions in tire weight and rolling resistance, while enhancing the tire's handling capabilities.
Unfortunately even the best tires are still a compromise. This is because the current materials and manufacturing technologies that provide many desirable tire attributes are directly opposed to other desirable attributes. For example, a "hard" tread compound that could provide long wear and low rolling resistance would also reduce traction. An "aggressive" tread design that could better resist hydroplaning or provide enhanced snow traction would also generate more noise. And a "stiff" sidewall that could provide responsive handling and high-speed stability would also reduce ride comfort. These opposing goals require blending and balancing the tire's comfort and performance traits until they are optimized for the OE tire's intended vehicle application.
Each vehicle manufacturer prioritizes the areas that they feel are of greatest benefit to help their vehicles satisfy their drivers. For example, a vehicle manufacturer that offers a line of fuel-efficient vehicles may be able to place more emphasis on traction and less emphasis on lowering rolling resistance than a vehicle manufacturer that builds a line of larger, less fuel-efficient cars.
A tire's characteristics can be represented graphically in a "spider" chart (see below). These charts provide a visual means of presenting multiple performance characteristics to allow direct comparison of an existing tire's capabilities (usually established at the 100 level as a baseline) to the targets and/or realized performance levels for a new tire.
While the tire manufacturer's ultimate goal is to develop technology that allows them to expand the new tire's entire comfort and performance envelope in all directions compared to the original tire, frequently they are only able to expand the tire's capabilities in several areas without causing compromises that would result in less performance in other areas. This type of analysis allows confirmation of the accomplished improvements and any resulting compromises.
Starting from the same original tire would result in identifying different goals for a tire intended for a luxury coupe vs. a tire intended for a true sports car. Which is the better tire? In reality, neither of them is better; but they are both different. Most importantly, both would be tuned to meet the desired personality of the car. However, if misapplied, the driver would experience a loss of performance if the luxury coupe tire was installed on the sports car, or a loss of comfort if the sports car tire were installed on the luxury coupe.
Only the vehicle manufacturer and tire manufacturer working together to develop the OE tire can determine exactly which tire design and internal construction will produce the most satisfactory results. A tire manufacturer who builds "all-purpose" replacement tires will never receive the benefit of the vehicle manufacturer's insight and intent, and is relegated to producing "average" tires.
Does it really make a difference?
Since 1990, J.D. Power and Associates has conducted an annual Original Equipment Tire Satisfaction Study to report on how consumers rate their satisfaction with Original Equipment tires on their one-, two- or three-year-old vehicles. The study conducted in 2002 was based on the experiences and opinions of more than 33,700 drivers. The study includes a nationally representative sample of all makes and models of passenger cars, vans, pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles sold in the U.S.
The study monitors consumer perceptions regarding tire quality, performance, brand image and service. Results are calculated using a tire satisfaction index that includes five factors: product quality, long-term performance, situational performance, design and winter traction. The 2002 study found Michelin brand products achieve the highest tire index score with passenger car and light truck drivers.
Maintaining high customer satisfaction is key to vehicle and tire manufacturers alike. Vehicle manufacturers benefit from higher vehicle satisfaction ratings, and tire manufacturers that have high levels of driver satisfaction also have the highest percentage of drivers who report that they intend to buy that same tire brand in the future. Among year-one owners, more than 60 percent of the drivers on OE Michelin report that they plan to repurchase Michelin tires in the future, the highest repurchase intention of all tire brands.
Additionally, the vehicle manufacturers have learned that if the driver is satisfied with their tires they are also likely to be satisfied with their vehicle, increasing their intent to repurchase the same brand of vehicle in the future.

If your shocks and struts aren't leaking I would look into o.e. tires.

I HAVE ONLY WORKED FOR ACURA SINCE 1995 WHAT DO I KNOW!!

beekermartin

I know my car isn't going to ride as softly as a OEM RL. I have the 18" a-spec wheels with Michelin Sport AS3 100y tires. I expected it to ride firm and it does. The side walls are hard as a rock. The advantage is it handles excellent, for such a heavy car.

The new struts made a big difference with how it handles small bumps and minor road imperfections. Large pot holes or sharp edge bumps still hit fairly hard but that has more to do with the stiff side walls than the struts.

If I was to do it over I would probably have gone with the lower load rating AS3. They probably ride a lot softer but wouldn't handle quite as well.

oo7spy

It is quite obvious that working for Acura since 1995 means nothing. Struts wear out. Monroe suggests 50k intervals for strut replacement. The idea that a strut has to have a catastrophic failure in order to degrade shock dampening is asinine.

MADDOGJR

Who said "Monroe" lol

I hate cars

You going to plagiarize the whole thing or give credit to Tire Rack?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vehi...D821oQS4pIKwAw

Don't change the subject. Of course tires affect ride quality but nowhere nearly as much as shocks or springs. Tires also change very, very little in the ride quality department over their life span where shocks change dramatically.

If the OP bought new tires and then noticed a harsh ride you might be able to blame the tires. If the ride was not originally harsh on the current set of tires it definitely is not the tires. Tell me how a sidewalll firms up with use.

Back to the point, shocks degrade gradually over time. They don't work perfectly and then "blow out" in a catastrophic failure. Shocks have internal seals that wear. Depending on the type of shock there are valves that also wear. By the time you see an external leak the shock is well past its useful life span.

Do engines not wear out until they throw a rod? An article by a tire shop might possibly focus on the tire part of the comfort problem, just maybe.

clscolorado

I have had Koni Yellows on two previous Acuras. Legend coupe and a TL-S. I don't believe they are available for the RL, but if anyone knows different, please post the info. Those shocks and struts are awesome. Best freeway ride ever and much improved handling.

I don't know how the Teins compare, but that sems to be the non-OEM option that I would choose.

oo7spy

I said Monroe. What's up? Tire Rack knows tires. Monroe knows struts. You just seem to be lost.

clscolorado, no, Koni are not available for the RL. Not yet at least.