swennick

I had my windows tinted to 30% (very dark) about 2 months ago and the drivers side (which gets the most use) is badly scratched. I brought the car back to the tinting shop and the owner explained that the problem is the window seal and not the tint (he replaced the tint anyway)

Now here's the issue... I brought the car in for its first service and the Service Manager explained that the 04 TL uses a new window design that creates an air tight seal when closed. The problem is they do not use the typical felt seal on the top edge of the door (as is common on most cars). Some Mercedes use the same sealing mechanism.

So what's the problem? When the window is open, any dust, sand or debris simply falls inside the door and rests between the inside of the window and the inside door seal. When you roll up the window all that trapped dirt scratches the window from top to bottom.

Perhaps a lighter shade would not have this problem (as it is thinner) but I suspect over time the results will be the same.

The car looks awesome (Nighthawk) with the dark tint but I may have to remove it (from the front anyways) because when the window is rolled up it looks like shit on the inside.

Anyone else know if there is a fix for this?

soljc

Did your installer use moleskin or felt like others in this forum have suggested? It seems those who have used the moleskin don't have any scratching problems.

Lore

I kind of wonder about the moleskin solution - won't the dust that gets trapped on the moleskin itself continue to scratch the tint? Or maybe I have a flawed image of what moleskin really is.

arkk

Well here's my research, for doing the windows on my TL.

I have been following a similar thread, and one of the folks I contacted are from suggestions from other members.

The first person I contacted was Rob. Rob is from the Tint Shop (1-888-815-8468) in Edison, NJ. He said he has not heard of any window scratching ( but he wants to make a sale) and when I asked, he said he uses Madico Film. A film I have never heard of. Further he said he has been using it for 15 years and has never has had a problem. He charges $139.

When he didn't mention any of the brands I have heard of (Lumar, Pinical etc) the first thing I thought of was these major brands may not wish to deal with him perhaps because of a credit situation. Of course I could be wrong, but that coupled with the really cheap price would be enough for me to stay away from his shop. At least if he were closer to the numbers that I am seeing on this site, I might be inclined to consider his proposal.

The second person I contacted is Frank at Tropic Tints (908-688-8705) in Union, NJ. He charges $225 for the "whole" job, and as far as the scratching issue goes, he says he "removes" some of the offending rubber on the door pannel.

His prices are in line, but I'm not sure that I would want my TL "modified" just for tinting. Although I like the way a car looks with tinted (30-35%) glass, and the fact that it keeps the car cooler, is no reason to have the protective shield removed or trimmed. I further think the floks who design these things are doing it for the better, and know far more (no disrespect meant here) than the tint guys.

Also, there seems to be another problem, and that's the amount of pressure that the rollers exert on the window to roll it up and down. I've heard of scratching the tinted surface by both dirt in the door frame (hence the need for moleskins) and the roller pressure.

As far as what I'm going to do? I'm still on the fence.

Alan

Ron A

The only thinking you have to do before installation is to find a reputable shop, and be sure the moleskin is installed on the front window seals. If the tint was replaced but moleskin was not installed, it will get scratched again.

Most shops will charge $20-25 for removing the door panel and installing the moleskin.

I have not seen any reports of scratching when the moleskin was installed.

There are many, many threads here about window tinting and moleskin.

thaas407

I had my windows tinted also on my 04. The same guy has been doing my windows for years. I had a 01 TL with limo tint....never a problem. My wife drives an 03 with limo tint....no problem. My 04 has scratches on the drivers window running from top to bottom. Looks ok from the outside, but like crap from the inside. But I don't mind. I'm so ticked off at the bad vibration from their tire and wheel problems, I don't even notice the window!!!

mastertl

Airtight seal? Isnt that...bad...for breathing and circulation

Ron A

Didn't you pay extra for the ventilation system like the rest of us? But don't forget, if you put the A/C in recirculate mode, you will have to stop and open the doors every 2-3 days, or that will adversely affect your breathing and circulation. Otherwise, the ventilation system will keep you alive and breathing.

GaleForce

My tint has a lifetime warantee. Its a bit scratched, not badly though. When it does get bad, I'll bring it back for my free replacement .

lindros2

related -- the window seal, as far as I can tell, is similar to my Audis (with teh exception of some plastic in the interior door frame where Audi uses metal).

Another difference is that the entire door panel moves as the window closes - whereas in German cars only the door frame tends to "flex" upon closure.

criss

My front 2 windows scratched after my tint shop said " We have tinted 04 TL and had no problem" so I bought the moleskin and had them install it when they replaced the tint. Did they charge me for it? Yes but prefection is not cheap. Has the scratches returned? No and that's all I cared about.

Seems they had other 04 TLs devolp the problem after mine and they wanted to know where to get the moleskin. So I sent them the various thread from here. Now they won't do a 04 TL unless the owners grees to intsall the moleskin.

MORTOYZ

I own a very large tint shop for the last 13 years and drive a '04 TL myself, as well as, do the installs for the local Acura dealer for the past 10 years.

The film is scratching, not due to the tightness, but due to the material that the uppermost seal is now being manufactured with.

Luckily, the moleskin fix is very easy to do and does not effect the integrity of the car. It doesn't even require any tools.

Cost should be somewhere around $20-40 per door depending on your market.

Widow film is scratch resistant, not scratch proof. Therefore, sctratching from an existing problem with the car is not covered under the manufacturer's warranty, Lifetime or not. Hopefully your installing dealer, if he didn't explain the problem going in, will work with you.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

brusie

criss,
what shop did you use

Stu E.

Could you explain what you mean by this? How is it done then? The reason I ask is that if I get this done by a shop that's not famiuliar with this "fix", I want to tell them how to do it without messing up my door panels. Is it not an issue with the rear windows or should I just not roll them down? Maybe I will drive out to Vegas if I can't find anyone locally!

Thanks,

cpa4u

Mortoyz,

I have the moleskin kit on order and am getting the windows tinted on Friday. I plan to put the kit in myself one night this week (if it arrives in time). I know that the door panels have to come off, but do the seals (gaskets) where the moleskin fits have to be removed from the door? If so, is this very difficult? I just don't want to get something out that I won't be able to get back in there. My understanding is that the seal is a bi-plane design and the moleskin should be put on the bottom one.

Thanks

MORTOYZ

The door panels DO NOT come off. They are just pulled back from the top of the panel once you roll the windows down to expose the seals. Then the seals are removed, cleaned, install moleskin product and replaced.

As far as the bi-plane design, they are both made out of the same material and both contact the glass, therefore you shold install the product over the entire surface. The skin comes in one inch strips and fits perfectly over the entire seal.

criss

HP Racing in Glen Burnie (about 3 miles from Adrunel Mills mall). It's a bit of a drive but they do great work. Let me know if you need a poc and #

cpa4u

Mor,

I just looked at the door panels with the windows down and don't think there is any way to pull back the panel enough to get the seals out. I could be wrong, but I think the panels would have to come off to have access to the seals?

If anyone else has applied the moleskin, I would appreciate input as to whether it was able to be done with the panels still on the car. That would make things MUCH easier for sure.

Thanks

MORTOYZ

CPA,

Trust me, we do about 5-10 of these a day. I don't even know how to tell you to take the panels off, since we have never done that. The only cars that need the panels pulled are CLK Mercedes.

Roll the windows down, stick you fingers between the door panel and the glass and pull up and back untill you can see the seal. Grab the seal at either end with your thumb and forefinger and pull up, not all at once but a little at a time and move left to right or right to left depending on which side you started.

The only thing you have to be careful of is bending the seal, since it has a aluminum brace molded inside of it to keep it straight. As long as you pulll the seal a little at a time it won't bend.

Plus, they can only go back in one way, so you don't have to worry about mixing them up.

That's it...

cpa4u

Ok, if my moleskin is home when I get there, I'll give it a try tonight. When you put it back in, there is nothing that the seal actually attachs to? Just squeeze it back in between the glass and panel?

MORTOYZ

The entire seal is "S" shaped. One side of the "S" pinches a thin piece of sheet metal, that's what holds it in place. You'll see once you get it out.

gochan

does anyone have pics of the seals and such so us morons can have a clearer picture. thanks.

dlouly47

Thats what I am thinking also. We need a dummies guide to " "

with illustrations.

Xpditor

You are incorrect. The door panels DO come off. The moleskin strips as well as the stock wipers are 1/2", not 1". The moleskin goes on the lower wiper of all four doors.

You cannot pull the door panel back without removing the four bolts and friction clips (8) as it is hooked on the top. This is an easy operation requiring only a Phillips head screwdriver.

You apparently have never done this. I have.

XP

cpa4u

XP,

Thanks for the help. I didn't think it was possible to pull back the panel like that. My moleskin just came and I plan to install it either tonight or tomorrow night. The guy that I bought it from included photos of the installation. So, I don't think it will be that bad to do.

I am correct in that the moleskin goes on the bottom "wiper" right? Also, is it much trouble to remove the seal and then reinstall it? I don't want to get it in wrong and mess up the window function.

Thanks!

MORTOYZ

Sorry. No disrespect, but I don't know how things are done in Florida, but I did 4 yesterday and did a quality inspection on my own TL to see how the Moleskin is wearing after a couple months. Never have we had to remove a thing. Removed, inspected and replaced my own in about 10 minutes.

Year to date, we have completed 150+ moleskin installs on TL's and TSX's and we average 20-25 window film applications a day.

I agree the wipers are 1/2" apiece. What I said was that the Moleskin comes in 1" strips, the exact size to cover both wipers in one shot.

Having one of the largest window film companies in the country, I think we see a few more installs than most.

Any way, to each their own...

MORTOYZ

X, by the way, since you have FormulaOne film on your TL you clearly know quality.

I am the original FormulaOne dealer in the country as well as the largest single purchaser of the film. I have been a premier represenative for CP films for 13 years and do a large amount of technical support and testing for them.

Just trying to point out I'm not just a TL owner.

MORTOYZ

Sorry, my last to posts are directed towards X.

cpa4u

Mor and XP,

I am not trying to start a fight here. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to install the moleskin without disturbing my TL too much. Maybe it will all make alot more sense tonight when I actually get ready to install it.

arkk

Got a question. It seems that all of this discussion is about the front windows. Does scratching also occur on the rear windows? As you may know, here in New Jersey it's illegal to do the front drivers and passenger side windows. So for me, if scratching is only happes on the front windows, I can get tinted with no worry.

Alan

ensley696

Is this an example of the moleskin you talk about?

http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPag...7.html?Origin=

cpa4u

Ensley,

Yes, that is the moleskin that we are talking about.

cpa4u

arkk,

I read in another thread that someone had scratches on all 4 windows. So, I am guessing that it would happen on the back windows too.

arkk

Cpu, mortoys, and everyone else.

I just looked at the back window of my TL and as far as I am concerned, there is no way you can get a grip with your thumb and forefinger on the wiper without first removing the panel. As a matter of fact, I couldn't even see where the screws are located.

cpu, I will be following this thread, and hope you are not only successful, but report just how easy or difficult it was.

Thanks in advance,

Alan

MORTOYZ

I've done all I can do. I am sitting in my office watching two TL installs as I type this reply.

This install is so easy, I hate to see people making it harder than it is.

If we were talking about a Mercedes, then things get a bit more in depth, but the TL/TSX is the easiest moleskin install in the industry.

If you all are ever in 'Vegas feel free to look us up and I'll show you how easy it is.

Or give us a call and we will walk you through it.(702)878-9933.

cpa4u

Mor,

With the windows rolled down, how far are you able to "pull back" the door panel to get access to the seal that needs to be removed? If it is as you say, I must be doing something wrong. I just went to the parking lot, rolled down the window and tried gently to pull back the panel. It would not budge even a quarter of an inch. I couldn't even get my pinky finger down in there. I hate it if I am making this more difficult than it really is.

Natismati

30% is dark? On what planet?

dlouly47

MORTOYZ,

I am thinking how about you take some photos step by step the next time you do another TL. Since your do alot of tints a day you can easily wait for the next TL to come in. I would love to see photos on this install as I dont want to unscrew and pull out my door panel either.


Just a thought and idea to help the people that want to tint their windows in the future.

MORTOYZ

OK, you can't just pull back. I'll try and explain it a little better.

After rolling the window down, Place all four fingers on both hands between the door panel and the black seal. Place your thumbs on the door panel. Pull up and back, the only way I can describe it is as if you are opening a tupperware container. The panel only needs to come back about 1-1.5" to expose the seal. The panel will want to snap back, but there isn't much resistance. Take one hand off and grab the seal as I said before, using your aother hand to lightly hold the panel back.

It's that simple.

As far as posting pictures, I don't have that much time. Not to mention, I sell DIY kits with all this info and the materials.

Hope this gets you through it.

Jim

cpa4u

The moleskin is on!! The only thing is that the guy who sent the strips didn't cut them to the correct width. I installed the passenger side one before noticing that. I just wrapped it around the bottom. Hope it will be ok that way. After that, I realized they were cut to 3/4" instead of 1/2". I cut the remaining 3 to the correct width.

Ok, now as to how I installed them. I used Mortoyz's method. He is correct. You do not have to remove the door panel. I did have to remove the screws behind the door latch though to get the panel out enough. You just reach your fingers in between the inner seal and the window (lower the windows all the way) and pull up and back at the same time. The top of the panel will pull back. The seals on 3 doors were fairly easy to get out. The last one took me longer than the other 3 put together. It did not want to come out!! The toughest part to me was putting them back in. It is very simple though. Just get the seal lined up with the sheetmetal in the door with the panel pulled back and push it down over it.

Total time about an hour and 20 mins. Good deal of that time was cutting the strips and trying to get the last seal off.

Have fun guys!! Hope this will mean no scratches.

Thanks Mortoyz for your help!