Replace Front sway bar....DIY ???
06-11-2012, 02:10 PM
#1
Replace Front sway bar....DIY ???
Im looking to change my front sway bar soon, and am wondering is there is a way around unbolting the sub-frame to change the sway bar, and/or the bushings..?? Are the bushings even replacable without taking the sub-frame down??
06-11-2012, 02:42 PM
#2
Suzuka Master
Well if you can figure out how to get that swapped without unbolting the cradle it would be worthy of a stickied DIY! Good luck with that task!
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justnspace (06-11-2012)
06-12-2012, 01:41 PM
#3
Team Owner
I did it without dropping the cradle completely. I left the front two bolts in but backed halfway out. The rest of the bolts I took all the way out. I was doing this at midnight on my back on the side of the street so maybe there was an easier way. I had to leave two bolts in so that it would not shift on me because all I had was a floor jack. It doesn't seem like it would shift around too bad but I couldn't take that chance. You'll have to get an alignment when you're done since lowering the subframe changes things.
I've also done the swaybar bushings without lowering the subframe at all when I installed poly bushings on the stock 5at swaybar. It was not fun but it can be done, at least with the small swaybar. Not sure about the larger 6mt and TL-S bars.
I've also done the swaybar bushings without lowering the subframe at all when I installed poly bushings on the stock 5at swaybar. It was not fun but it can be done, at least with the small swaybar. Not sure about the larger 6mt and TL-S bars.
02-09-2013, 07:19 PM
#4
Drifting
So, to replace the FSB, you have to lower the sub-frame and get a new alignment? great.
btw, IHC, I was thinking about getting the TLS 27.2mm FSB because it is so much cheaper than H&R 28mm. Does it have to be for the automatic TLS since my TL is an autmatic? or can I get the manual one? Or is there a difference?
And for an RSB, is it better to get the non-adjustable one for firmness? I have seen the adjustable ones forever but I don't know what is adjustable. Is it size? or length? or firmness? I want max of whatever is it. It seems like the adjustable one would compromise it's integrity.
btw, IHC, I was thinking about getting the TLS 27.2mm FSB because it is so much cheaper than H&R 28mm. Does it have to be for the automatic TLS since my TL is an autmatic? or can I get the manual one? Or is there a difference?
And for an RSB, is it better to get the non-adjustable one for firmness? I have seen the adjustable ones forever but I don't know what is adjustable. Is it size? or length? or firmness? I want max of whatever is it. It seems like the adjustable one would compromise it's integrity.
Last edited by Chad05TL; 02-09-2013 at 07:23 PM.
02-09-2013, 07:57 PM
#5
Team Owner
It doesn't matter which one you order, all TL-S swaybars are the same, auto or manual as far as I know.
If you get the larger front bar you're going to want the 24mm rsb. The adjustment is in the length of the lever arm. Longer for more leverage making it easier to twist the bar, making it softer. Or the short hole making it stiffer. Generally, with the two adjustments, a 24mm bar will act as a 23mm bar in the soft setting and like a 25mm bar in the firm setting. That's a general guideline but not absolute. Too firm will make the car tail happy.
I spent a lot of time on this oversteer/understeer balance and I got it very nice, both ends would break free at almost the same time. If one end of the car gives up before the other you've limited your cornering speed.
Right now I have a slight "issue" that took that balance away. I first noticed when I had a new 5.0 Mustang riding my ass and I hit these two sharp S turns that I've been hitting since I was a teenager at a rate that would challenge his ability to ride my ass. This time though, the TL was sideways around the first right hander which immediately transitioned into a left hander which got it even more sideways. Cornering speed is still good but I had the steering nearly full lock and the gas to the floor at 70mph. Not a good way to find out you lost the front bar. My car basically has no FSB and a stiff RSB which made it so tail happy.
This is why adjustable bars are good, for fine tuning the handling balance. Instead of swapping springs you can make a 10 minute adjustment to the bar. No structural integrity issues, it's just a different set of bolt holes.
One thing to note, the H&R bar is a very high quality piece with some very nice maintenance free urethane bushings that have yet to make a bit of noise after all these years. It is however, stiffer than it's 28mm diameter would have you think, in comparison to the TL-S bar. I'm guessing it's the metal used. For this setup I found it best to use the H&R bar in soft with the Progress 24mm in full firm to get proper balance with a-spec springs. The larger FSB makes turn-in feel sharper and the car is more stable at high speeds. You can have a little fun on mountain roads near triple digits and the car is more planted and predictable.
With the current setup, on regular street tires there's practically zero body roll which isn't really the goal but it's a very balanced, capable setup that doesn't compromise ride quality too much.
If you get the larger front bar you're going to want the 24mm rsb. The adjustment is in the length of the lever arm. Longer for more leverage making it easier to twist the bar, making it softer. Or the short hole making it stiffer. Generally, with the two adjustments, a 24mm bar will act as a 23mm bar in the soft setting and like a 25mm bar in the firm setting. That's a general guideline but not absolute. Too firm will make the car tail happy.
I spent a lot of time on this oversteer/understeer balance and I got it very nice, both ends would break free at almost the same time. If one end of the car gives up before the other you've limited your cornering speed.
Right now I have a slight "issue" that took that balance away. I first noticed when I had a new 5.0 Mustang riding my ass and I hit these two sharp S turns that I've been hitting since I was a teenager at a rate that would challenge his ability to ride my ass. This time though, the TL was sideways around the first right hander which immediately transitioned into a left hander which got it even more sideways. Cornering speed is still good but I had the steering nearly full lock and the gas to the floor at 70mph. Not a good way to find out you lost the front bar. My car basically has no FSB and a stiff RSB which made it so tail happy.
This is why adjustable bars are good, for fine tuning the handling balance. Instead of swapping springs you can make a 10 minute adjustment to the bar. No structural integrity issues, it's just a different set of bolt holes.
One thing to note, the H&R bar is a very high quality piece with some very nice maintenance free urethane bushings that have yet to make a bit of noise after all these years. It is however, stiffer than it's 28mm diameter would have you think, in comparison to the TL-S bar. I'm guessing it's the metal used. For this setup I found it best to use the H&R bar in soft with the Progress 24mm in full firm to get proper balance with a-spec springs. The larger FSB makes turn-in feel sharper and the car is more stable at high speeds. You can have a little fun on mountain roads near triple digits and the car is more planted and predictable.
With the current setup, on regular street tires there's practically zero body roll which isn't really the goal but it's a very balanced, capable setup that doesn't compromise ride quality too much.
02-09-2013, 09:44 PM
#6
Drifting
The HR bar that is really "high quality piece", are talking about fsb or rsb?
and I don't understand what you mean when you say you basically have no fsb.
As far as bushings that make noise, I never had a noise problem with the ends, but on a camaro the rsb is physically mounted on the rear differential for complete support of the rsb. The bushings that supported the weight of the rsb are the ones that ever squeaked. But they gave me some really thick clear silicone grease. Never had a problem after that. Water doesn't penetrate thick silicone grease. and therefore the contact the bushings made with the bar itself always stayed lubricated.
But I don't race may car around corners like you described. I do however like the flat turns but I don't go into hard turns like you described in this TL. I did do that once in my SS once when one of those dodge little cars with big tires and a fast engine was tail grabbing by ass. I out ran him but this off ramp was cornered and I did fine all the way around the corner , and it was a long circle like most highway clovers are, and just at the end, where the ramp.transitioned to the main road, there was a slight bump or a jostle and the front of my camaro nosed out, or slipped out , and kinda scared me. Weird thing was that my car was flat in the turn. just only the tires seemed to have broken free on the front. I had eibachs, bilstiens, zr1 wheels, and a 35mm fsb and a 25mm rsb. The rear was fine but the front had a slip when the road bounced. So, not sure what that means other than the front just lost traction , and partly due to weight.
But it does not surprise me that you have to adjust your fsb and rsb to be more "equal" because these TL's are close to 60/40 weight distribution. My camaro however was more like 75/25. but that's only a guess. maybe 70/30 is closer since the back glass was a gazillion pounds.
and I don't understand what you mean when you say you basically have no fsb.
As far as bushings that make noise, I never had a noise problem with the ends, but on a camaro the rsb is physically mounted on the rear differential for complete support of the rsb. The bushings that supported the weight of the rsb are the ones that ever squeaked. But they gave me some really thick clear silicone grease. Never had a problem after that. Water doesn't penetrate thick silicone grease. and therefore the contact the bushings made with the bar itself always stayed lubricated.
But I don't race may car around corners like you described. I do however like the flat turns but I don't go into hard turns like you described in this TL. I did do that once in my SS once when one of those dodge little cars with big tires and a fast engine was tail grabbing by ass. I out ran him but this off ramp was cornered and I did fine all the way around the corner , and it was a long circle like most highway clovers are, and just at the end, where the ramp.transitioned to the main road, there was a slight bump or a jostle and the front of my camaro nosed out, or slipped out , and kinda scared me. Weird thing was that my car was flat in the turn. just only the tires seemed to have broken free on the front. I had eibachs, bilstiens, zr1 wheels, and a 35mm fsb and a 25mm rsb. The rear was fine but the front had a slip when the road bounced. So, not sure what that means other than the front just lost traction , and partly due to weight.
But it does not surprise me that you have to adjust your fsb and rsb to be more "equal" because these TL's are close to 60/40 weight distribution. My camaro however was more like 75/25. but that's only a guess. maybe 70/30 is closer since the back glass was a gazillion pounds.
Last edited by Chad05TL; 02-09-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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