mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Do you guys think this would fix a small leak from the power steering rack?

I know ATF will cause O-rings to soften and swell, so I'm curious if I do this maybe it'll fix the little bit that my rack is leaking very slowly by softening the O-rings and making them swell a bit. Worth a shot I guess before replacing the entire rack over a very minor leak.

Also anyone know what size the hoses are coming off the power steering res, I'm thinking it looks like its about 1/2"?

I don't really want to take them off to find out, looking at picking up a magnefine filter for the power steering lines.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ is the seals are already cracked am not sure how any fluid will fix that....its like if the transmission 3rd gear is already broken, replacing switches wont do anything

but its still worth a try rather that purchasing/replacing the rack and pinion....

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Well hopefully they aren't cracked, normally they become flat and hard eventually.

Stop leak actually has chemicals that cause O-rings to soften and swell, but sometimes they just turn your O-rings into mush.

ATF has similar properties, so I thought it might be worth a shot, haven't done it yet though. I'll probably give it a shot eventually, my leak is really minor and not worth replacing the entire rack yet. It's on my list, but dropping the subframe really isn't :/

If only we could get that damn thing out without lowering the subframe it wouldn't be so bad.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Did you end up adding the break-in additive?

I hate cars

No, I totally forgot until someone else brought it up today. I may continue without it and see what happens. I'm thinking this fluid could be a near lifetime fluid as long as there's filtration.

I might send a used sample and a new sample off for a UOA just for my own curiosity.

dcmodels

What are you using for filtration - or is that just a comment?

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, I'm probably going to try this out soon. I have some auto-rx to run through it first for about 1k miles.

I'll be installing a magnefine filter for the fluid, just prior to where it enters the power steering res.

Going to put the filter in before I add about 2 oz. of the auto-rx, then after 1k miles I'm planning on switching to the high-temp atf.

I hate cars

Since my birthday is in a few days I might ask for one. Ford dealers usually have the 1/2". I need the 3/8" for the transmission as well since it's been in there for 60,000 miles roughly.

It's good to hear someone talking about AutoRx instead of the crazy Seafoam crap that everyone is obsessed with. That's probably the best cleaner out there and it's not a solvent so it's not going to lower film strength like Seafoam. Looking forward to your results.

For what it's worth, you can unscrew the Magnefine halves instead of cutting it open if you choose to see what the filter catches. I found this out by accident. Remove the label and you'll see a seam. Lightly tap the seam with a small screwdriver and hammer around the diameter of the filter to break the seal or seam and it will unscrew. The nice thing is you don't get any plastic shavings in the filter and wonder if it came from the trans or if it's the housing.

Slpr04UA6

Merry Christmas Matt! We All Appreciate your Help/Insight here on Azine! Happy Holiday's, and Happy Early BDay!

dcmodels

My Ford dealer no longer uses/ sells the MagneFine, but another brand. And neither does my NAPA dealer - had to order online last time.

Two pipe wrenches, or very large slip-joint pliers, works for me. I have used 3 MagneFine filters in my RDX PS line, and all three began to leak (slightly) at the seam of the screw-on top, after about 8K miles or one year. No leaks from the ones I have used in the Trans cooler line, even after 2 years. No idea why one leaks and the other does not - purchased two at a time from the same places at the same time - perhaps PS fluid is different from ATF to cause a leak?

I hate cars

Thank you!
I'm not trying to offend but you're using the low pressure return line, right? That's weird, the return PS line has less pressure than the transmission cooler circuit. It would have to be in the oils chemistry.

dcmodels

Yes, I was thinking of chemistry - but can't think of any other reason. Filter is located in the PS return line, under the passenger side wheel well liner, which is a pain to change, but it was there or remove the front bumper cover for an RDX - at least, no other better filter location occurred to me, pic here if interested:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=828859

1KLRTOY

Well I did it and followed IHC's lead and flushed my PS with Redline high temp ATF. I added 2ozs of Red Line break in additive per qt.for the extra zinc. So far the system is quiet no leaks and feels the same as it did with the Honda fluid, I guess time will tell. As a side note I also changed the transmission filter and that was not as easy as I expected. There are 3 bolts that hold the cover on and the bottom bolt is a real pita to get started because of limited access. I wound up super gluing the spring to the bottom of the filter as I could not get it centered in the bottom of the housing. I probably won't be changing it again although the old one was pretty dirty so I guess it can't hurt.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

I recently changed my filter in the AT as well, I just use a little 10mm wrench to get on that bottom bolt.

The spring I just stick in there with my finger, it has a spot where it slides into, then the metal cap on the bottom of the filter goes in towards the spring it has an indentation on the bottom where the spring sits, the rubber o-ring side goes towards the end cap where the banjo fitting is.

I've got the autorx in mine now, just over 1oz.. another 800 miles or so to go before I change out all the fluid still haven't made a final decision if its going to be OEM fluid or redline high temp atf.

How did you do your flush? Did you just pump out the old stuff and add the redline or did you use the baster method over and over?

1KLRTOY

I did the flush like the book said, I used a turkey baster to suck all the fluid out so when I disconnected the return line there wouldn't be a mess, then just stuck a length of clear tubing in the end of the return hose stuck it in a container started the car and turned the wheels lock to lock until no fluid came out, re-attached the return line filled with Redline and repeated the process to bleed the air out. It took about 1qt to do the job and I will do it once more to make sure I get out all the old fluid. If you read all this post you'll see IHC has been using Redline in his PS for over a year with no problems. Redline is a great product that has been around for a long time and I'm using the racing mixture in my trans and it shifts perfect.

I hate cars

Wow, that's awesome to have someone else running this fluid. Maybe we can both update this thread with any changes. My biggest fear is leaks but nothing in over a year now. What's the climate like over there?

I might have to switch over to a mix of 0w-20 and 5w-30 motor oil now. Maybe I'll save that for the next Acura.

dcmodels

Certainly a high quality PS fluid can reduce wear - so can clean fluid and a filter. For those who like pictures, here is a comparison of wear based on type of driving: mostly city or mostly highway - as indicated by the amount of material filtered out.

I do not intend to jack this thread, but only to indicate that (1) a filter really removes wear material, and that (2) the number of times the steering is moved produces more wear - more wear in city vs. highway because the steering is used more. That might seem obvious, but here is some empirical "proof".

The pics are from an RDX, but the idea is the same IMO - see post #20.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14845474#post14845474

1KLRTOY

I live 150 miles north of you in Pleasanton so we have similar temps except in the summer when your 10 degrees or so hotter.I don't expect any problems with the fluid as you have done you homework on the product and I've used Redline products for years in my bikes and cars and it's the best you can buy. I'll keep this post updated on my results, but I feel like you do that this could be a lifetime fluid.

dcmodels

Its good that another person is trying the ATF in the PS. I prefer to keep the tank full while flushing by turning the wheels. That way the rack and pump never run dry, which I personally feel may cause damage.

And I really feel that the FSM is wrong, and this should not be done with the engine running, which I am certain will damage the pump or rack. Certainly my GM Chevy FSM does not suggest any such procedure.

I have flushed the PS system, and flushed out air, simply by turning the wheels (off the ground - front jacked up on stands). It takes around 10 turns lock-to-lock, to bleed the system of air. When flushing, just keep turning the steering wheel until the fluid leaving the system is as clear as the new fluid being poured into the tank. It took about 1.5 quarts for me.

This has worked several times for me, both with my RDX, and my Chevy truck. Any noise from the PS system with trying to flush or bleed the air, with the engine running, is damage being done to the rubber seals - JMO

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

I'm guessing you're using the baster method? Where you empty the res then refill it with fluid, start the car to circulate it and repeat?

How are you keeping the res topped while you drain it? It drains so fast, like 4 seconds and the system will be empty with the return line off.

Just curious I was considering flushing it, but not sure if its a good idea to hook up the feed line to the pump to a bigger container of fluid and have the return line disconnected with a hose running away from the car. So I could pump in new fluid and drain the old stuff out without running it dry.

From my understanding that feed line to the pump is pretty hazardous if its disconnected and the pump is running.

Did some math, looks like it'll take about 3 qts using the baster method to get 97% of the old stuff out or 4 qts to get to 99.14% using the baster method.

TL Power steering --

1.16 qt Capacity
.33qt Reservoir

Co*Vo+Cn*Vn=Cm*Vm

1st drain and fill

28.5% New Fluid
71.5% Old Fluid

Percent Old - Fill #

47.9% Old - 2
32.1% Old - 3
21.5% Old - 4
14.4% Old - 5
9.7% Old - 6
6.5% Old - 7
4.4% Old - 8
3% Old - 9
2% Old - 10
1.3% Old - 11
.86% Old - 12
.6% Old - 13


Edit -- Think I figured it out, you're turning the steering wheel with the car off, probably in the ACC position with the wheels off the ground ? How does the pump pick up the new fluid to pull it through the system that way? Does turning the wheel like that draw the new fluid into the system even with the pump off? Confused..

dcmodels

Yes - and the RDX actually has a sort of key position between OFF and ACC, which will unlock the steering column, but not turn on any accessories, so that I don't have to listen to the door open bell while I am doing this.

Yes, it does. And it is perfectly safe, as the pump never pulls in any air. Just keep the reservior/ tank full. So, about 5 turns lock-to-lock, then refill the tank. When the old fluid has been completely flushed, reconnect the lines, and a few more turns until the fluid level in the tank stops dropping. And since no air is ever pulled into the pump, the system technically does not require bleeding.

There is only some air in the return line between the output from the rack, and the input to the tank, which on an RDX includes the PS cooler. That is, until you reconnect the lines, and continue *pumping* by turning the steering wheel. This pumps the return line and cooler full of fluid. When the fluid level stops dropping in the tank, you are done, and the system is already bled (no air).

You can verify this, by then starting the engine, and allowing it to run at idle. There should be no noise - don't turn the wheels with them on the ground. If you are doubtful, just turn the wheels once or twice, at idle, before lowering the front back onto the ground.

As an engineer, I have to say that the idea of running the engine, and completely running the pump and rack dry, is just crazy. Again, the GM FSM procedure is not like this at all.

The above procedure that I have described will also work if air does enter the PS system, to bleed out any air - it just takes a bit longer. The GM procedure says 20 turns lock-to-lock for the old recirculating ball type pumps, and 40 turns for the newer rack-and-pinion systems. It works just fine on my 98 Chevy S10 Blazer truck.

One last comment - don't bump the steering system against the stops while doing this. With the engine off, it probably is not harmful, but just bothers my mechanical sensibility. However, bumping against the stops with the engine running, can definitely damage the pump, or at best, blow off one of the hoses.

dcmodels

For more info see the link in post #92 above. I installed an inline filter, and that is where I disconnect the return line, in order to perform a flush. Your TL PS lines may differ. Anyway, I did not want to disconnect the return line at the tank, so did it behind the passenger side wheel. Again, if that is unclear, just look at the pics in the link.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time I do it.

Berat

iTrader: (1)

Off topic(kind of) you guys mentioned AutoRX and I did the research on it. For anyone thats used it, would it be beneficial to use a conventional oil as they suggest for best results. Would you notice a difference if you used full syn and followed a 4000 mile cleaning interval? Or would they work similarly. The reason I ask I always use redline 5w-30 however my car sat for a whole month without much movement because of an accident and temperatures here in Chicago went well below zero, once I got the car back it felt a little sluggish and gas milage suffered so I was just wondering what I could do to get it back to its previous form.

I hate cars

Auto Rx is the best engine cleaner out there and it's totally safe so you're making a good decision to use it. However, if you're using and have been using Redline and there's no sludge under the valvecovers, it's very unlikely cleanliness is the cause of your problem. You'll probably get better results from flooring it a few times. If you use a cleaner I suggest Auto Rx but it would probably be a waste of money.

I can't remember the reason for using a conventional oil. I remember people using it with Redline specifically. If I remember right, you don't want to use it with a "normal" group IV synthetic I believe but you can use it with the more rare group V synthetic. Don't quote me on that though.

While a synthetic 5w-30 is fine for your temperatures, you might consider a 0w-30 if the oil has time to reach full temp, or if you only drive short trips in the winter, a 0w-20 would do the job well.

Berat

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the quick reply, and pointing me in the right direction.

I'll be switching to the High Temp ATF for power steering once I get a new pump, so I can't wait to give this a try!

1KLRTOY

OK now I have a question, I flushed my PS just as it said to do in the service manual, that is with the engine running, seemed to work ok but there was some noise as the air was bled out. Would all the fluid be purged out with the engine off and the pump not turning as dcmodels suggests to do to prevent damage to the rack. Seems strange that FM would instruct to do the flush with the engine running and the return line disconnected.

1KLRTOY

I did my second flush as you outlined and it worked very well. I will always use this procedure from now on. I did the first one as the FSM said to do it and there was some noise as the system was being bled and flushed and I too didn't like the sounds, so thank you for the info

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I am not sure on how the PS system exactly works but I have done this in the past

I have followed the instructions in the manual and bled out all the fluid...as the fluid ran out and the system was running dry, I turned the car off....

then I put the hoses back, added new fluid to the reservoir and started the car and had the wifey turn the wheel from lock to lock....I kept adding new fluid as the level kept going down....

once the fluid level stayed pretty stable and there was no bubbles in the fluid I turned it off...even at this point, I was hearing some whining....after I did couple more lock to lock turns, no more whine and it was all good from there on out....



I dont think by just turkey 'basting' the fluid out and adding new fluid, you are flushing out most of the fluid and as mentioned you will take multiple tries....


the next go around, am gonna attach a container funnel to the supply hose, put the return hose in a gallon bottle....put a quart of fluid and just turn lock to lock....this way, the system wont run dry and will flush out all the fluid

1KLRTOY

I only used the baster to suck out the fluid to below the return line, then I disconnected the return line added a length of hose and placed it in a container refilled the reservoir with clean Redline turned the wheels lock to lock 5 or 6 times refilled the reservoir and did this 3 or 4 more times. I used about 1.5 qts as dcmodels had said. The fluid seems to be bright red and no air entered the system as it did the first time I did it as the FSM instructed. This was done with the front wheels off the ground and the engine off, this method seems to work well and shouldn't do any damage to the system,

dcmodels

I flush the PS system every 2-years when I replace the inline filter. In between, every 6-months I use the turkey basting method, twice, to keep the fluid fresh. My RDX (not TL) is driven mostly under severe conditions: 90% city and 20 degrees in winter, and 100 degrees in summer - and most trips are under 5 miles.

Because of the built-in filter in the bottom of the PS tank, only 7 ounces can be removed. So twice and driving in-between, and about 40% of the old fluid is removed, every 6-months. Doing this with the PS fluid warm/ hot will also remove any suspended material.

new fluid = 12.5 ounces
old fluid = 18.5 ounces
total in system = 31 ounces

Its just the way I do it, because the Honda PS fluid is not synthetic, which of course, is my interest in this thread.

1KLRTOY

Why not try Redline high-temp ATF with 2ozs. of Redline break in additive with ZDDP per qt. its synthetic and once all the old fluid is gone should last for awhile, it seems as though IHC has been using it for a year with zero problems, I'm following his lead so I guess we'll see...

dcmodels

Interesting - the Penrite brand (Australia) contains 0.139% by weight of zinc, which is close enough to 1380ppm. The *official* MSDSs for Honda PS fluid do not indicate the PS contains zinc, but several aftermarket brands of PS fluid which are specified for Honda use, do so indicate.

Not a question for anyone in specific, but why RedLine Synthetic high-temp ATF instead of RedLine Racing ATF? The viscosity is basically the same and the only difference seeems to be the level of FM (friction modifier). Sorry if that has already been asked, but did not see it in the thread. So what would happen if a non-FM ATF was used in the PS system? too much friction and wear? why would FM be of benefit in a PS system? sticktion? just my curiosity.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Duno, I do remember IHC said he never put the additive pack into his system, I know 1klrtoy said he put the additive pack in his though

I was looking at flash points as well and it looks like the redline high-temp atf flashes at about 200 degrees F higher than power steering fluid.

1KLRTOY

I added the ZDDP because I thought that's what IHC had done, so I added it to the ATF after I did it I found out he didn't add it to his system. I don't believe it will cause any problems at least I hope it won't, I suppose I'll find out if I made a mistake, but so far the steering is perfect and the fluid is bright red. I will update this post and I hope IHC and anyone else who is using this fluid in their PS.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Well I think I'm going to chicken out on this one and am sticking with OEM fluid, I just bought 4 bottles of it to flush my system today.

The auto-rx has been in my power steering system for about 1600 miles now. I replaced 1 of the rubber lines (by front bumper cover) on my return line that was leaking and never replaced the other rubber line for the return hose coming off the rack. I have one for that though and I may see if I can put it in before I flush the system.

The thing I wanted to get at is my power steering rack was leaking before. If I added fluid it would leak out down to where it was just above the 'MIN' line on the reservoir. When I added the auto-rx I installed a magnefine filter near the power steering res as well, since I knew a lot of dirt was going to come out out of the system while its in there. I also replaced the reservoir.

I checked it the other day and I saw no bubbles whatsoever in my power steering reservoir while the engine was running. Also the level is now staying higher than where it was before, about 1/4" below the 'MAX' line on the reservoir since I did my last fill when I installed the filter. It did go down a little bit from where I had the fluid at when I changed the hose and installed the filter, but not as much as it normally would have while it was leaking.

I think my leak is gone now and while I can't fully attribute it to the Auto-RX since some fittings on my rack were tightened up and a hose was replaced, I think it may have helped.

Since my leak appears to be gone and I don't want to take the chance of having to replace the rack, I'm going to stick with OEM fluid.

1KLRTOY

It sounds as though your doing the right thing for your car, and I'm sure the system will live a long life, you can't go wrong using the approved fluid.For me I know Redline is a quality product so I guess I'm willing to take the risk. Its been in my PS for a month and everything is perfect so far, I guess I'll know if I made a mistake if the PS fails or leaks.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

I didnt want to open a new thread, I have some Amsoil PS sitting in the garage, this was before they changed the formula and has Honda in the recommended list...I am debating if I should use that OR go with OEM or use Redline high temp ATF...

any suggestions guys

1KLRTOY

IHC has been using Redline high temp for a year with 0 problems. I added the ZDDP as a precaution as IHC said the Honda fluid had added zinc for added anti wear, so I'm thinking it sure couldn't hurt.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

guess am gonna put the Amsoil for sale