Oh geez, dare I create yet another oil thread?
11-22-2018, 08:41 PM
#1
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Oh geez, dare I create yet another oil thread?
Sorry guys, I know we have way too many oil threads here on AZ, so right off the bat I should get fifty demerits for creating this thread.
With the above in mind, why in hell would I dare create a new thread? Simply because there is a new oil on the market, which I am inclined to use. The oil? Shell Rotella® Gas Truck Synthetic Engine Oil:I have used Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 in numerous vehicles over the years (Minivans, Pickup Trucks, and even my son's two NA Miatas, all of which were bought used and had fairly sludgy engines); and have been very pleased at how well the oil has cleaned things up and returned some rather stellar UOA reports.
In another month or two I will hit the 10,000 mile mark on the Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my TL and send it out for analysis; assuming I can find the new Shell Rotella 0W-20, I will run it for 10,000 miles and send it out as well. Stay tuned, I'll report back with both UOA reports when I get them.
With the above in mind, why in hell would I dare create a new thread? Simply because there is a new oil on the market, which I am inclined to use. The oil? Shell Rotella® Gas Truck Synthetic Engine Oil:I have used Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 in numerous vehicles over the years (Minivans, Pickup Trucks, and even my son's two NA Miatas, all of which were bought used and had fairly sludgy engines); and have been very pleased at how well the oil has cleaned things up and returned some rather stellar UOA reports.
In another month or two I will hit the 10,000 mile mark on the Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my TL and send it out for analysis; assuming I can find the new Shell Rotella 0W-20, I will run it for 10,000 miles and send it out as well. Stay tuned, I'll report back with both UOA reports when I get them.
11-22-2018, 08:59 PM
#2
The inconvenient truth
That's cool! I'm in for the results.
Hey while were talking about more oil threads maybe we can talk about gas too! Like for instance, can I tell the difference in performance when I use 91 octane and 94 octane. I think I can!
Hey while were talking about more oil threads maybe we can talk about gas too! Like for instance, can I tell the difference in performance when I use 91 octane and 94 octane. I think I can!
11-22-2018, 09:03 PM
#3
Race Director
From Shell:
Do you own a pickup truck?
NO.
Then do you own a SUV?
NO.
Stick with your current motor oil....
Do you own a pickup truck?
NO.
Then do you own a SUV?
NO.
Stick with your current motor oil....
11-22-2018, 09:05 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Ohmergerd, mur erl?
Sorry guys, I know we have way too many oil threads here on AZ, so right off the bat I should get fifty demerits for creating this thread.
With the above in mind, why in hell would I dare create a new thread? Simply because there is a new oil on the market, which I am inclined to use. The oil? Shell Rotella® Gas Truck Synthetic Engine Oil:I have used Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 in numerous vehicles over the years (Minivans, Pickup Trucks, and even my son's two NA Miatas, all of which were bought used and had fairly sludgy engines); and have been very pleased at how well the oil has cleaned things up and returned some rather stellar UOA reports.
In another month or two I will hit the 10,000 mile mark on the Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my TL and send it out for analysis; assuming I can find the new Shell Rotella 0W-20, I will run it for 10,000 miles and send it out as well. Stay tuned, I'll report back with both UOA reports when I get them.
With the above in mind, why in hell would I dare create a new thread? Simply because there is a new oil on the market, which I am inclined to use. The oil? Shell Rotella® Gas Truck Synthetic Engine Oil:I have used Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 in numerous vehicles over the years (Minivans, Pickup Trucks, and even my son's two NA Miatas, all of which were bought used and had fairly sludgy engines); and have been very pleased at how well the oil has cleaned things up and returned some rather stellar UOA reports.
In another month or two I will hit the 10,000 mile mark on the Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my TL and send it out for analysis; assuming I can find the new Shell Rotella 0W-20, I will run it for 10,000 miles and send it out as well. Stay tuned, I'll report back with both UOA reports when I get them.
11-22-2018, 09:39 PM
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Yup, saw that. That said, look at the certifications and ratings, exactly correct for our cars. If you spend any time at all over on BITOG, Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 (designed for big diesel trucks), is very much a crowd favorite for numerous gasoline fueled passenger vehicles. Why? Stellar UOA results. I predict the new Rotella for gas engines will gain a similar following.
11-22-2018, 09:50 PM
#6
Race Director
Meh, I'm guessing it's VOA cant be distinguished from one of several synthetic 5w20 oils, hence the UOA can't be much different either. Anyone got a link to a VOA for this oil?
11-22-2018, 10:19 PM
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It is my understanding the other Rotella synthetic oils use a GTL base, and if this holds true for the new oil, then the VOA will definitely be a bit different.
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11-22-2018, 11:15 PM
#8
Race Director
Penzoil Platinum is also GTL and IIRC, it's VOA is not remarkable from M1... There is a thread somewhere about this but I can't find it right now....
11-26-2018, 08:49 AM
#9
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I'm new here, but super excited to see someone trying this! Rotella is used by a lot of the BMW community. It helped clear up an X5 I bought with a sludge issue too. So I'd highly recommend it assuming it meets all of the J-series needs.
11-30-2018, 08:54 AM
#10
Yup, saw that. That said, look at the certifications and ratings, exactly correct for our cars. If you spend any time at all over on BITOG, Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 (designed for big diesel trucks), is very much a crowd favorite for numerous gasoline fueled passenger vehicles. Why? Stellar UOA results. I predict the new Rotella for gas engines will gain a similar following.
11-30-2018, 09:11 AM
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Rotella T-6 0W-40 is API-SN certified; that is one the latest gasoline certifications.
11-30-2018, 10:55 AM
#12
Race Director
I theorize that 0W40 is too thick for the J32. Why? Because I had increased metal wear when using it (M1 0W40). Not sure I'd be all that excited about putting 0W40 in a J32...I'll be very interested to see if your UOA with 0W40 shows the same...
11-30-2018, 11:33 AM
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Never advocated to use 0W-40 in any J-Series (except maybe a long in the tooth J37); it was just as a response to the discussion about Rotella T6 not carrying any gasoline engine certifications. As for Shell Rotella oils for gasoline engines can easily be used in the J-Series engines, the new line includes 0W-20, 5W-20 and 5W-30 grades (I'll be using 0W-20 once available).
12-01-2018, 07:17 AM
#15
I have used Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 in numerous vehicles over the years (Minivans, Pickup Trucks, and even my son's two NA Miatas, all of which were bought used and had fairly sludgy engines); and have been very pleased at how well the oil has cleaned things up and returned some rather stellar UOA reports.
12-01-2018, 11:46 AM
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12-01-2018, 04:36 PM
#17
Amsoil:
If the diesel oil carries both specs, the oil is safe to use in diesel and gasoline applications. If the diesel oil does not carry the “S” category, AMSOIL strongly recommends against using it in gasoline applications
Ford position even stronger:
Never use C category oils in gasoline engines with emission catalysts. Even if they show SN in the API donut, like CK-4/SN, CJ-4/SN etc, Unless they also show the starburst symbol on the front label stating "American Petroleum Institute Certified Certified for Gasoline Engines". SN oils without a Starburst symbol can be harmful to your vehicles catalyst and reduce fuel economy.
12-01-2018, 07:01 PM
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Don't argue with me, but not everyone agrees with you. Guess it's another phenomenon the the oil group came up with.
Amsoil:
If the diesel oil carries both specs, the oil is safe to use in diesel and gasoline applications. If the diesel oil does not carry the “S” category, AMSOIL strongly recommends against using it in gasoline applications
Ford position even stronger:
Never use C category oils in gasoline engines with emission catalysts. Even if they show SN in the API donut, like CK-4/SN, CJ-4/SN etc, Unless they also show the starburst symbol on the front label stating "American Petroleum Institute Certified Certified for Gasoline Engines". SN oils without a Starburst symbol can be harmful to your vehicles catalyst and reduce fuel economy.
Amsoil:
If the diesel oil carries both specs, the oil is safe to use in diesel and gasoline applications. If the diesel oil does not carry the “S” category, AMSOIL strongly recommends against using it in gasoline applications
Ford position even stronger:
Never use C category oils in gasoline engines with emission catalysts. Even if they show SN in the API donut, like CK-4/SN, CJ-4/SN etc, Unless they also show the starburst symbol on the front label stating "American Petroleum Institute Certified Certified for Gasoline Engines". SN oils without a Starburst symbol can be harmful to your vehicles catalyst and reduce fuel economy.
- VW (502.00/505.00)
- Mercedes-Benz (229.3/229.5)
- BMW (LL-04/LL-12)
How do we explain that disconnect?
12-02-2018, 05:39 AM
#19
Hmmm, kind of bizarre considering there are numerous oils on the market which are both C category and SN, and are the recommended oils for literally millions of gasoline engine powered cars. Case in point, each of the following oil specifications are both C category and meant for gasoline engines:
- VW (502.00/505.00)
- Mercedes-Benz (229.3/229.5)
- BMW (LL-04/LL-12)
Looking at the examples you posted above, one wonders why the manufacturer specifies specific oil requirements for their models. Let's look at VW specs over the years:
500, 501.01, 502, 503, 503.01, 504, 505, 505.01, 506, 506.01, 507/508
Many people feel they know better then what the manufacturer specifies, or just don't want to pay the price, so will deviate from those specific parameters and use oil of their choice.
When the VW Beetle diesel arrived, my cousin purchased one and the oil I needed to use to service the vehicle was dealer only, and even with discount, it was expensive, but we stuck with that oil.
Bottom line, my recommendation is to use the lubricant, viscosity/API spec. that the manufacturer recommends and abide by their change intervals.
12-02-2018, 08:32 AM
#20
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Beats me, I'm only the messenger.
Looking at the examples you posted above, one wonders why the manufacturer specifies specific oil requirements for their models. Let's look at VW specs over the years:
500, 501.01, 502, 503, 503.01, 504, 505, 505.01, 506, 506.01, 507/508
Many people feel they know better then what the manufacturer specifies, or just don't want to pay the price, so will deviate from those specific parameters and use oil of their choice.
When the VW Beetle diesel arrived, my cousin purchased one and the oil I needed to use to service the vehicle was dealer only, and even with discount, it was expensive, but we stuck with that oil.
Bottom line, my recommendation is to use the lubricant, viscosity/API spec. that the manufacturer recommends and abide by their change intervals.
Looking at the examples you posted above, one wonders why the manufacturer specifies specific oil requirements for their models. Let's look at VW specs over the years:
500, 501.01, 502, 503, 503.01, 504, 505, 505.01, 506, 506.01, 507/508
Many people feel they know better then what the manufacturer specifies, or just don't want to pay the price, so will deviate from those specific parameters and use oil of their choice.
When the VW Beetle diesel arrived, my cousin purchased one and the oil I needed to use to service the vehicle was dealer only, and even with discount, it was expensive, but we stuck with that oil.
Bottom line, my recommendation is to use the lubricant, viscosity/API spec. that the manufacturer recommends and abide by their change intervals.
12-02-2018, 03:07 PM
#21
Yes, and with the VW oil specs, they are typically paired Gasoline/Diesel, and as a general rule, one oil can meet both specifications. Maybe I'm misunderstanding their intent, but this to me indicates the rule about avoiding C category oils for gasoline engines is nothing but bunk.
Quit a few oils out there that are Diesel only, so I can only assume that the specifics to meet gasoline engine requirements fall short. Certainly an oil producer would benefit from having the oil for both C & S.
Makes sense:
Diesel engine oils have a higher anti-wear (AW) load in the form of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). The catalytic converters in diesel systems are designed to be able to deal with this problem, while the gasoline systems are not. This is one of the main reasons you don’t want to use a diesel engine oil in your gasoline engine.
12-02-2018, 04:07 PM
#22
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Well, here we go again. Although a manufacturer states the API C is only for diesels, you say it's bunk and can be used in gasoline engines. Like I stated before, people seem to disregard the specs and do what they want.
Quit a few oils out there that are Diesel only, so I can only assume that the specifics to meet gasoline engine requirements fall short. Certainly an oil producer would benefit from having the oil for both C & S.
Makes sense:
Diesel engine oils have a higher anti-wear (AW) load in the form of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). The catalytic converters in diesel systems are designed to be able to deal with this problem, while the gasoline systems are not. This is one of the main reasons you don’t want to use a diesel engine oil in your gasoline engine.
Quit a few oils out there that are Diesel only, so I can only assume that the specifics to meet gasoline engine requirements fall short. Certainly an oil producer would benefit from having the oil for both C & S.
Makes sense:
Diesel engine oils have a higher anti-wear (AW) load in the form of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). The catalytic converters in diesel systems are designed to be able to deal with this problem, while the gasoline systems are not. This is one of the main reasons you don’t want to use a diesel engine oil in your gasoline engine.
A few years back I needed a minivan as a spare vehicle for some limited but necessary chores; I found one out in California with just shy of 200,000 miles on the clock and in very good condition; I bought it sight unseen. When I flew out to visit my son at his Navy base a few weeks later and to pick the vehicle up, I had a look-see inside the valve covers and the maintenance history; both told the same story, the van has been lubricated exclusively with conventional Pennzoil 5W-30 and the entire valve train was covered with sludge. I had the oil changed and had Rotella T6 prior to the 3,000+ mile drive back to New Hampshire; the engine consumed the first quart of oil after only 700 miles. Fortunately I expected some oil consumption (but no where near this much) and had several gallon jugs of T6 along for the ride. The second quart wasn't fully consumed until something over 1,000 miles, the third was more like 1,500 miles, and when I got home the valve train was literally spotless; now nearly five years later it is only consuming a quart every ~2,500 miles. My assumption is the oil control rings were also heavily sludged and the T6 cleaned them up.
Regarding the catalytic converters; due to New Hampshire being surrounded by CARB sympathetic states (and CARB sympathetic Canada to the north), we do emissions testing here, and all of the cars I've used T6 on, some for well over 100,000 miles, have continued to show very low emissions levels; levels well below the thresholds.
I understand the above is proof of nothing, but I will continue to use T6 in the minivan and my son (now out of the Navy) will continue to use T6 in his MX-5 Miata. If you go over to BITOG, there are many-many UOAs from folks using T6 on a very wide range of gasoline engine powered vehicles, and while I haven't by any means looked at them all, I've never seen a single report of an emissions failure.
Last edited by horseshoez; 12-02-2018 at 04:09 PM.
12-02-2018, 05:11 PM
#23
Well, I guess this is a question for the ages.
A few years back I needed a minivan as a spare vehicle for some limited but necessary chores; I found one out in California with just shy of 200,000 miles on the clock and in very good condition; I bought it sight unseen. When I flew out to visit my son at his Navy base a few weeks later and to pick the vehicle up, I had a look-see inside the valve covers and the maintenance history; both told the same story, the van has been lubricated exclusively with conventional Pennzoil 5W-30 and the entire valve train was covered with sludge. I had the oil changed and had Rotella T6 prior to the 3,000+ mile drive back to New Hampshire; the engine consumed the first quart of oil after only 700 miles. Fortunately I expected some oil consumption (but no where near this much) and had several gallon jugs of T6 along for the ride. The second quart wasn't fully consumed until something over 1,000 miles, the third was more like 1,500 miles, and when I got home the valve train was literally spotless; now nearly five years later it is only consuming a quart every ~2,500 miles. My assumption is the oil control rings were also heavily sludged and the T6 cleaned them up.
Regarding the catalytic converters; due to New Hampshire being surrounded by CARB sympathetic states (and CARB sympathetic Canada to the north), we do emissions testing here, and all of the cars I've used T6 on, some for well over 100,000 miles, have continued to show very low emissions levels; levels well below the thresholds.
I understand the above is proof of nothing, but I will continue to use T6 in the minivan and my son (now out of the Navy) will continue to use T6 in his MX-5 Miata. If you go over to BITOG, there are many-many UOAs from folks using T6 on a very wide range of gasoline engine powered vehicles, and while I haven't by any means looked at them all, I've never seen a single report of an emissions failure.
A few years back I needed a minivan as a spare vehicle for some limited but necessary chores; I found one out in California with just shy of 200,000 miles on the clock and in very good condition; I bought it sight unseen. When I flew out to visit my son at his Navy base a few weeks later and to pick the vehicle up, I had a look-see inside the valve covers and the maintenance history; both told the same story, the van has been lubricated exclusively with conventional Pennzoil 5W-30 and the entire valve train was covered with sludge. I had the oil changed and had Rotella T6 prior to the 3,000+ mile drive back to New Hampshire; the engine consumed the first quart of oil after only 700 miles. Fortunately I expected some oil consumption (but no where near this much) and had several gallon jugs of T6 along for the ride. The second quart wasn't fully consumed until something over 1,000 miles, the third was more like 1,500 miles, and when I got home the valve train was literally spotless; now nearly five years later it is only consuming a quart every ~2,500 miles. My assumption is the oil control rings were also heavily sludged and the T6 cleaned them up.
Regarding the catalytic converters; due to New Hampshire being surrounded by CARB sympathetic states (and CARB sympathetic Canada to the north), we do emissions testing here, and all of the cars I've used T6 on, some for well over 100,000 miles, have continued to show very low emissions levels; levels well below the thresholds.
I understand the above is proof of nothing, but I will continue to use T6 in the minivan and my son (now out of the Navy) will continue to use T6 in his MX-5 Miata. If you go over to BITOG, there are many-many UOAs from folks using T6 on a very wide range of gasoline engine powered vehicles, and while I haven't by any means looked at them all, I've never seen a single report of an emissions failure.
As far as the BITOG Forum, you couldn't give me enough money to participate over there. Some of them must be from outer space.
It's been great, but I guess we've beaten another oil thread to death and time to out to dinner.
Last edited by Turbonut; 12-02-2018 at 05:18 PM.
12-03-2018, 02:47 AM
#24
Senior Moderator
Wait till you guys hear about 0W-16 oil...
12-03-2018, 03:56 AM
#25
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