dcmodels

I do not disagree with anything you have said above, but the oldest Amsoil MSDS I can find says:

7.46/ 33.76/ 5,690 = AmsOil Multi-Vehicle PSF (Synthetic) 01/15/2012
7.3/. 32.2/ ...... = AmsOil Multi-Vehicle PSF (Synthetic)OLD 07/01/2010
6.47/ 34.7/ 18,000 = Redline PSF (Synthetic, GM p/n 1050017) 1/07/2011

I also find it interesting that the OLD Amsoil MSDS says that the PSF contains 30-60% Distillates (petroleum) , hydrotreated heavy parafinic. And the MSDS states that the PSF is synthetic??

The CURRENT/ NEW Amsoil MSDS says that "There are no ingrediants present which ... are classified as hazardous to health" etc. No actual ingrediants are listed.

I guess that I am curious as to whether you think the different additive package between ATF and PSF matters? or how much it matters? I mean, a GM DEX-III type ATF matches the viscosity requirements of most non-Honda vehicle PSF systems. So why don't most car makers just specifiy ATF, instead of a specific PSF?

Just wondering, and always curious about such things, specifically why you think it is OK to use ATF in a Honda (Acura) PS system? Or why not just run the RedLine PS fluid?

I hate cars

In the old days many cars used ATF in the power steering systems. Many "PSF" fluids were literally ATF without the red dye as proven years ago. Several newer cars I've worked on use ATF still. Many times they're simiar. They both work under high pressures with similar hydrualic pumps. They go through sheer hell in the power steering pump and the main pump of an AT. Operating temps are similar. That's probably why they're generally interchangable or even identical.

I would be more willing to experiment on the PS fluid with the lighter fluids if I had a pressure guage on the system. Once you have the necessary HTHS, the protection is there but the pressures might be off. I figure the Redline High Temp ATF with a 10cSt hot viscosity is close enough to the 11-12cSt of the stock fluid to keep pressures close to stock and with the additional HTHS (this is assumed since i can't find a number but it's a very safe assumption) it will provide better protection than stock, even though it's very slightly thinner.

Right now even on a 30 degree day at startup, my steering is exceptionally light. The last Amsoil PSF I bought was roughly a year ago so I might have the thin stuff in there by accident. I've certainly had no issues whatsoever but I'm not comfortable running a flud that's that much thinner. If I knew it was an Ester basestock, no VIIs, etc I would probably continue running it. Now that you've pointed this out, I'm going to switch although I might wait and run the Amsoil through the winter, who knows.

I'm fully confident in using ATF in this system. If it doesn't work out I'll be sure to post it. The problem is 40c is still warm and 100c is full operating temp. It's very possible these synthetics are thinner upon startup on a 30 degree morning, I'll plug it into the calculator when I get home. It's also possible that these synthetics while thinner at 100c won't thin as much when temps go over 100c. Basically, there's a ton of wiggle room in regards to viscosity. 7cSt to nearly 12cSt is a pretty big difference but I fully expect them to come out with a thinner fluid for the PSF soon as well and say it's better than the original since that's the trend with engine oil and trans fluid for that extra .0001mpg. I'm actually being serious, I would bet money Honda comes out with a thinner power steering fluid in the next couple years that will be backdated for our cars.

Thanks for bringing this up. I need to stay up to date. I did this research starting in '06 and with rare exception never looked at it again. The good thing is the power steering sytem still performs like new and this is a good excuse to try out Redline ATF.

nfnsquared

Yeah, my point is that it's never matched Honda's viscosity or even come close to matching. The Amsoil PSF viscosity always been in the 7's. Amsoil based it's Honda compatibility on the additive pack, not viscosity.

Amsoil recently reformulated their PSF and determined that the new formulation (mostly additive driven) no longer meets Honda compatibility. The Amsoil PSF viscosity hasn't hardly changed throughout the years.

I hate cars

We can do this all day. I found an year old bottle of Amsoil PSF and it most definitely has Honda listed. Their tech line told me the viscosity was around 10cSt many years ago. If it wasn't, my power steering system has been doing awfully good on a 7cSt fluid for 7 years. Everyone can read Hondas marketing/advertising propaganda for factory recommended fluids and intervals. Anyone can blindly follow these recommendations and not question them which is what you should do if your knowledge of fluids and mechanical things is low. However, there are people that want to improve on these recommendations and rightfully so considering their roots are in marketing and influenced by the governments need to screw things up for an immeasurable mpg increase.

It's amusing but not surprising that you never try to get in the technical debates. Instead you cite things you find on google and put all your faith in it instead of attempting to learn how these things work so you can finally make educated decisions.

nfnsquared

Your memory is faulty, they flat out told you wrong or you're totally making that up. The viscosity has never varied from the mid- 7's. Here's the original MSDS from 2008 (showing a viscosity of 7.3):

http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_ms...eringfluid.pdf

7 years? Not possible, since Amsoil didn't release their synthetic PSF until the summer of 2008 and you didn't put Amsoil PSF in your TL until late Sept/early Oct of 2008. (Then a month later you wrecked it and it was all replaced with Honda OEM fluid for a while).

I hate cars

I missed this jewel from the Google queen. Yes, I have lots to gain by making up what Amsoil's tech line told me about their PSF. It's been in my car for a long time. It was a 10cSt at one time as the tech told me and the viscosity was noticeably thick for a PSF, thick enough that I was thinking this fluid is thicker than the recommended fluid for a lot of it's recommended applications and just a hair thin for Honda. I doubt the tech line would lie. I also have a bottle sitting here from about a year ago that has Honda on it's recommended vehicle list.

Since you lack the intelligence to make a decision other than blindly following the manual, I'll play the Google game...

One of the few smart, and I mean very smart guys at BITOG, an actual tribologist <gasp>... From Molakule:

"I think it' more a matter of additive pack than viscosity.

I would think a 7.4cSt viscosity@100C makes more sense especially for cold weather operation."

Oh, and that additional zinc, well actually ZDDP that you claimed does not exist that Molakule eluded to:

http://www.pinnacleresourcesoil.com/...mance_PSF_.pdf


Here's Pablo, an Amsoil rep on the board:

"Here is what Amsoil actually says: If a customer purchased the new formulation of AMSOIL PSF, we no longer support its use where the Honda spec is required. If customer has the old formulation, which carries the Honda spec on the bottle, there are no issues using it. With respect to mixing the Honda PSF with the old version of AMSOIL PSF, there are no concerns, you may top up with Honda PSF."



When you are unable to think and use common sense it's best to stick to what the manual says. If you have a little common sense you might be able to improve on what the manual suggests. I understand sticking to the manual but don't attempt to act as if you're smarter than anyone else because you can read a manual and post pictures of it instead of referring to your own experiences which seem to be limited.

With a better base oil and a higher HTHS you can go a little thinner without sacrificing wear so even though I don't recommend the 7cSt fluid in a TL it likely will cause no issues and has not cause any issues in mine. Keep in mind this car was run through Vegas, Bakersfield, and Phoenix summers regularly. In the winter I would have absolutely no issues running it, it will be thicker than the Honda fluid is in the summertime.

I can follow your logic saying I have had zero power steering failures on Amsoil while others have had failures on the factory PSF but that would be retarded.

One last thing, I think tonight my car just became the first TL ever to be filled with Redline High Temp ATF as the PSF. Should be interesting, did 3 drains and refills. Fluid is bright red. I do not suggest you try this, if it fails at 500,000 miles you might blame the fluid. I would explain why this is a good fluid for this application but you wouldn't get it.

Now back to your regularly scheduled show, did I install Amsoil flud 7 years ago or 5.5 years ago... Valuable info there.

nfnsquared

Dude, get a life. All I said was:

1. Amsoil PSF viscosity has never varied from the mid-7's (proven by the MSDS links I provided).

2. Amsoil removed the Honda spec because they changed the additive pack, not the viscosity.

3. Amsoil PSF didn't exist until mid 2008.

and this link indicates the date you first used Amsoil PSF to be early Oct 2008, (4 years, 2 months ago):

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...38#Post1271838

I hate cars

I need to get a life, I'm the one searching for every post you've made lol.

1. You've shown no proof. I've heard different from their techs.

2. That's nothing more than a guess.

3. You're way too predictable as I said above: "Now back to your regularly scheduled show, did I install Amsoil fluid 7 years ago or 5.5 years ago... Valuable info there."

4. Being a Google search expert does not make you a subject matter expert. You have a bad habit of reading other peoples' writings, summarizing them, and pretending to know what you're talking about. Get out from behind the keyboard once in a while and try something for yourself. You contribute nothing to the board other than a bunch of Google searches and pictures of the manual. Do something, experiment, contribute something that's not already available.

nfnsquared

1. I've posted the original MSDS from July 23, 2008 when it was released. Clearly shows Vis of 7.3. DCModels has posted the other Vis info, all below 7.5.

http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_ms...eringfluid.pdf

2. Nope, not a guess. Came from Dan Peterson at Amsoil:

"When we reformulated the product and dove into the current Honda/Acura specification, we chose not to formulate to meet the specification per the specific formulation direction outlined in the specification as it created other limitations. Mostly additive driven."

3. You have a history of making shit up. Just like your claims that you had "a ton of sand" in your coolant. You've come on this board and made that claim several times, trying to convince others that the OEM recommended interval is no good.

Link to IHC claim of "a ton of sand" #1

Link to IHC claim of "a ton of sand" #2

Link to IHC claim of "a ton of sand" #3

Next, everyone should go read what you posted on BITOG right after you did the coolant change in your above claims. It's funny, in that post you claimed that you didn't pay attention during the first change and that during the second change there was "not much at all". But you come over here and make wild claims about having a "ton of sand" in your coolant.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...83#Post1231783



Just keep making crap up, I don't care. It's your credibility. Several Azine members have probably done unnecessary early coolant flushes because of the garbage you've posted about your mystery "ton of sand".

I hate cars

Yes, I'm making up having sand in the coolant because it benefits me so much. The first time I had a ton of sand but I didn't pay attention to the way it was drained. I was pretty sure the coolant hit nothing on it's way into the container and the car was practically new with no oil or dirt on the underside. It had a ton of sand in the container. The second drain and fill I made especially sure it was a pure sample and there was sand in that sample too. If there was sand in the second drain and fill, it validates the ton of sand in the first drain and fill. I know it's hard for you to deduct anything that's not spelled out in the manual. It's no wonder your wife wants to leave you (I can do research too).

If you read the entire posts, nothing I've said contradicts itself in any way. What is happening is I have a nut hugger following every word I type and trying his best to take anything out of context. Best advice I can give you is to get off my nuts. Jealousy, it's not good for you.

I've never made a thing up, I've only helped people. I've done research in the real world that you can't just look up on google and purchased white papers, you post pictures from a manual that anyone with a computer can access. I am not the only person to have sand in the coolant, even in your quote above there were other people with sand in the coolant. Maybe I made them imagine it lol. The problem here is you've never changed your coolant so you're speaking from ignorance, your opinion irrelevant. If you're going to post advice having never done anything car related, you should at least have a disclaimer with your posts that it's a google summary, a guess.

As for the PSF, it makes so much sense for me to put a 7cSt fluid in MY TL that could potentially harm it. You've got your google facts wrong. I'm going with the tech I spoke with. Shouldn't you be dealing with your personal issues right now?

nfnsquared

Bwahahaha. Amazing how you go from "Last time I drained it, I didn't pay much attention" with no mention of sand to "not much at all" and now years later you're claiming that there was a "ton of sand" the first time you drained it, the very same event for which you previously posted "I didn't pay much attention" and made absolutely no mention of sand.

So, you want us to believe that there really was a "ton of sand" the first time, but you elected not tell everyone on BITOG then when your memory was fresh? Bullshit.

Years later you come to Azine and change your story to try and support your claims that you know more than the Acura engineers. Again, total BS and you're just pissed that I caught your made up story about the "ton of sand".

And nice job on your Amsoil PSF viscosity research. You believed ( and still do) some numb nut on the phone and never bothered to look at the readily available MSDS? That is indeed quality research.

Lastly, you still can't get your facts straight. I AM speaking from experience when it comes to flushing my coolant, but I guess that selective memory of yours is once again acting up. Have you already forgotten this post from only 23 days ago?

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=26

Maybe you've taken too many hits to the head and it's all coming back to you now in your old age. You really should consider getting that looked at...

I hate cars

When I get the time I'm going to knock your dick in the dirt with this brining up old posts out of context crap. Until then, continue taking my posts out of context, its not like you have a family to take up your time. The paying little attention was meant not paying attention to the actual draining while it was happening, not the end result.

Too many hits to the head? At least I got out there and trained and fought. I'm not a computer pussy that's protected by the mods from verbal abuse and distance from physical pain. So while we're getting personal, how did it feel when your wife had another dude inside her? I guess you weren't getting the job done. Be careful what you post on the Internet, others can do research as well
and there's a lot more where that came from.

I've done actual testing, you know, the kind where you have to get out from behind the computer and off of google to do like the braking tests, swaybar tests; tire tests, etc, with tons of data. Ive tracked the TL. Ive made hundreds of passes down the 1/4, been involved in the R&D behind some of the turbo products that are in common use today, and Ive worked in the industry for half my life. I figure at your age and with your state of health I won't have to worry about your nonsense for much longer. Until then I get to laugh at your increasingly cynical attitude. I guess I would be a bit bitter if I were in your shoes as well which is why I put you on ignore. Thanks for the years of third hand plagiarized advice you given.

nfnsquared

Bwahahaha, nice.

The cyber bully returns with his cyber threats. Now people get to see the real you.

And once again, your research is pathetic, and wrong. Tell everyone my "wife" had 100 dicks in her. Bwahahaha. Go ahead. I wonder who this poor woman is? Do you know her name? Because I sure don't. Bwahahaha. It's hilarious...

Oh, so you didn't pay attention to the actual draining but you noticed the "ton of sand"? But you decided not to mention the "ton of sand" while in the very same post you mused on what damage the "not much at all" quantity of sand might do? Okie dokie, whatever...

I hate cars

There wasn't a single threat, implied or outright. I stated you show disrespect because you know you can get away with it. It's doubtful I would hurt you if we were face to face, I generally don't pick on the elderly or cripples, seriously, but we both know you wouldn't act this way in person so its a moot point.

Come on dude, you know I'm telling the truth about your so called wife which happens to pertain to this conversation because it explains why you're so cynical.

Stop focusing on my adjectives used to describe the amount of sand in my coolant. It was there, others have experienced it, case closed. If you managed to get out of your wheelchair and did it yourself you might want to get your bifocals checked. Or maybe you ran it for too many years by following the manual and the sand was embedded in everything or ground up too small to see. I don't know, don't care.

IamaTL

carry on.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Guys,

What the hell???????

Are you two seriously at it again? All I could do is shake my head-reading this thread. I actually had to read it twice-because I couldn't believe what I was reading....


This is a warning to both of you. (I hate cars and nfnsquared). This is absolutely ridiculous and stupid to read this stuff.

It got personal-that's WAY out of bounds. This is a perfect example of what NOT to do on a public forum.



......and all of this during the holiday season.....shame on BOTH of you.



I'm going to leave this thread open to see which one of you hangs himself first.