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This thread is somewhat of a reincarnation of my previous thread on this forum about the work that I have done for the Honda / Acura J-series manual transmission, and serves to inform others of who I am / the possibilities that exist for J-series transmissions.
Just about any question that any of you might have about the Honda / Acura J-series transmission, I have entertained and I have researched thoroughly, and can likely answer for you. I have been building OEM Frankenstein geared Honda transmissions for over 16 years now. My interest in doing so resulted in me quitting my IT job in 2007, so that I could go back to school and pursue a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering at Clemson. Although I did not (yet) graduate (I have 16 remaining ME credit hours. I had to step away from Clemson in 2013 due to health / financial reasons), I managed to learn a lot in which I have applied towards my BenseBuilt Honda Transmission endeavors. I also did additional coursework to satisfy a mathematical sciences minor (which, is typically only about 1-2 additional courses for any engineering major). A lot of my efforts with Honda transmissions pertain to numerical analysis of the gear-spreads, or how 'close-ratio' the gearing actually is.
In 2017 I spent a considerable amount of time tackling the J-series manual transmission, and I managed to figure out a ton of things such as final drives and other gearing options, such as how to retrofit FK8 (2017+ Civic Type R) gears in a FWD J-series 6MT, as well as a 2-3-4-5-6 OEM Close-ratio Frankenstein gearing concoction. I managed to re-gear my transmission using part trash parts / other part FK8 parts. I am willing to answer some of your questions.
Nearly every transmission issue that people have can be mitigated / resolved by having close-ratio gearing, which is why I put so much emphasis on figuring out a way to modify my transmission and make it closer-ratio. While I am a Gear-X and MFactory distributor, however that is not the focus of my efforts. Most of my transmission research is for my own personal enjoyment.
In addition to J-series, I have discovered, devised, built OEM Honda / Acura Frankenstein manual transmissions for:
* D-series
* B-series (See this thread: https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...-sbxm-3345057/)
* F-series *H-series *K-series * R-series (research / reverse engineering only) * L-series (research / reverse engineering only)
I receive a lot of questions from people all over the world. The most interesting tend to be overseas people, especially pacific islanders. The shipping availability constraints that they face provides motivation for them to be more efficient in using / modifying what they do have. Foreigners tend to be more receptive to ideas and they tend to be more willing to at least discuss or entertain other ideas. Whereas other Americans tend to get pissed off, irritated, mad, and let their egos get in the way of nerdy transmission discussion.
That being said, here is the transmission setup that I use in my daily driver Accord V6. It uses larger FK8 mainshaft with its larger 3/4 and 5/6 sized synchros. The gearing is superior to FK8. I also have the freedom to change a few things on it to cater to my liking.
Interesting. You've intrigued me to do some research know very little about gearing/how it changes the car's behavior.
It changes everything. The stock FWD J-series 6MT gearing is too gappy. This combined with the heavy flywheel make it a cumbersome vehicle to drive and shift.
It's amazing how much my setup has woken up my car.
It changes everything. The stock FWD J-series 6MT gearing is too gappy. This combined with the heavy flywheel make it a cumbersome vehicle to drive and shift.
It's amazing how much my setup has woken up my car.
I agree on the gappy feeling. I'm actually going from a dual mass to single flywheel in the next month or so, the thought of gearing has popped up a couple times. Car just doesn't react the way it needs to in stock form IMO.
Im guessing your the numbers on the bottom of your chart is in Kilometers? if so, your gearsset would top out at 161mph while stock tops at 203mph on oem wheel/tire. Thats the trade off for faster acceleration.
Would love to feel this setup on a stock 6MT, probably rips!!
Im guessing your the numbers on the bottom of your chart is in Kilometers? if so, your gearsset would top out at 161mph while stock tops at 203mph on oem wheel/tire. Thats the trade off for faster acceleration.
Would love to feel this setup on a stock 6MT, probably rips!!
I've got several different 6th gear ratio options. One of which is an overdrive that makes 6th gearing with my 3.9 final identical to stock TL 6th.
^^ @Acura TL Builder , maybe if you ask Bense real nice he could perhaps help:
1) Source you a 21200-RAT-020 Trans. housing
&
2) Show a picture of the preload inspection tool
03CLS; 07HAA-SF10100
07-08TLS; 07XAJ-S0KA100
or whatever he uses?
He left his IT job to do this full time.
That's a pretty big piece of the puzzle to just share openly.
With that said, this is impressive stuff.
Out of curiosity how does the gearing on the S2000 look by comparison?
Closer ratio? I don't know squat about this stuff but it certainly is interesting to me.
He left his IT job to do this full time.
That's a pretty big piece of the puzzle to just share openly.
With that said, this is impressive stuff.
Out of curiosity how does the gearing on the S2000 look by comparison?
Closer ratio? I don't know squat about this stuff but it certainly is interesting to me.
Here's a plot of one of the configurations offered with my setup vs an S2000 AP2. I plugged in 3.95 for the final drive on the S2000 because I wanted to show how similar I can make the RPM drops to the AP2.
Here's another plot where I did the same to the 1st gen NSX 6MT.
Stock transmissions, even for Type R, NSX, S2000, etc. They're actually not the best gearing. I don't mean that as "my gearing is closer, therefore its better". In general, most people think that they know how they want their gearing. In my '94 Civic hatch I tested out at least 17 different transmission setups. At least!
One of the most common ideas that I receive inquiries about goes back to the B-series days where people thought that they wanted B16 / ITR gearing, "but with a tall LS 5th gear for good gas mileage on the highway!" - Reality is that that configuration is annoying to drive, most of the people that have done that have come back to me saying that they wish they hadn't because it completely threw off their rhythm whenever they'd pass someone on the highway. -- You're better off retaining the close-ratio 2-3-4-5-6 gear-spread and running a lower final drive if you want to reduce your cruising RPMs OR just run a slightly taller 6th gear. Or both.
What this has effectively done is that when I drive my car (My drivetrain is 100% stock J30A5 with exception to my transmission), I move my hand quickly to shift more quickly. I can pretty much shift as quickly as my hands can move and I don't shock my drivetrain like I did when I had the stock trans. It also, surprisingly difficult at first to shift quickly without having to 'slam gears'. -- All without having to spend over $1000 for some overpriced flywheel / clutch / pressure plate setup.
Think about it like this:
My transmission setup compares to the stock J-series 6MT, like the stock J-series 6MT compares to the automatic trans.
Guys, I have to clean up the thread.
If you have a grievance with OP, please address it directly with him.
My understanding is he is working to get these custom parts/transmissions out to the best of his abilities given current circumstances.
Seems to be a straightforward guy. I think this thread is more him sharing his experiences and keeping the conversation around what's possible
with these things than a sales pitch anyway.
^^ @Acura TL Builder , maybe if you ask Bense real nice he could perhaps help:
1) Source you a 21200-RAT-020 Trans. housing
&
2) Show a picture of the preload inspection tool
03CLS; 07HAA-SF10100
07-08TLS; 07XAJ-S0KA100
or whatever he uses?
I've got an inner CV joint from one of my older axles that I replaced. I'm going to cut it up some with my $16 harbor freight grinder angle grinder, drill some holes in it, and thread some socket cap screws into.
That is when I begin to use up this $6 oak stairway dowel that I bought at lowes. Or maybe it was $9?
I've since jammed some old plastic washers taken from used shifter cables that I've replaced, and placed them between those pieces of wood. I've also wrapped some duct tape around some of the wood. There has been a time or two when small particles of wood debris has gotten in the diff / LSD. I just disassembled the LSD and washed the parts off with water and dish soap.
Gunny Highway would be proud. “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome,”
The video is icing on the cake. @Acura TL Builder there is an in action visual on how and the proper 30-40 inch pound reading for diff. preload.
Bense, if possible, could you provide a summary, that an 'eight-year' old could understand, on the importance of checking and adjusting for this measurement when the:
I added the U.K. available preload tool I posted and found to Acura TL Builders thread below, though, I'm not sure if it would be the same diameter needed for the V6 diffs?
^
Bense, if possible, could you provide a summary, that an 'eight-year' old could understand, on the importance of checking and adjusting for this measurement when the:
It's very important because you don't want ~30 minutes with $25 worth of tools to result in you having to spend ~$400+ in round-trip shipping to have a customer ship back a problematic transmission.
Thank you Bense and Zeta! This is great
mcgeivering!(Irish-German)
Your doing amazing work Bense. It’s one thing to do custom engines, but so few do custom transmissions! Especially in a world that is pushing automatics on us. You are valued.
Thank you Bense and Zeta! This is great
mcgeivering!(Irish-German)
Your doing amazing work Bense. It’s one thing to do custom engines, but so few do custom transmissions! Especially in a world that is pushing automatics on us. You are valued.
Thanks but I don't really give a damn if I'm valued or not.
How does the MFactory LSD help in waking up the car vs OEM?
Funny, it had just dawned upon me that I have never driven any car / transmission equipped with an OEM Honda LSD. I've got six of them within 5 feet from me right now. They've just always wound up getting sold with a transmission. I cannot answer your question because I simply do not know.
My comment about waking the car up, was pertaining to the gearing wakes the car up. Even with my stock J30A5.
As far as an OEM LSD vs an aftermarket one, I can tell you from having disassembled several LSDs that the OEM one is very underwhelming from a quality of the components perspective.
OEM is cast steel. Even the helical gears are cast steel and porous. LSDs seem to hold their value. Quaife and MFactory offer lifetime warranties with their helical LSDs. Even if a vehicle is totalled, they survive. I've never seen, nor have I heard of anyone breaking an aftermarket LSD (with exception to the transmission running without oil).
All of my customers have always insisted on LSD, and most are willing to spend ~$550 extra to have an OEM LSD over stock open diff. It's the type of scenario where if anyone were to hold the parts in their hands, that it would be a no brainer that they'd spend an extra $250 for an MFactory / Quaife.
Same thing with the 3.55 final drive on an open diff vs 3.286 final on the factory LSD.
The LSD yields better acceleration coming out of turns.
The 3.55 final drive over the 3.286 final drive yields better acceleration coming out of turns and on straights.
Dave Blundell (blundar) was kind enough to put me in a big group chat with the Honda Tuning Suite (https://hondatuningsuite.com/) devs. Working on TL ECU
Bense, if you are still out there , I was looking through the Acura CL Helms service manual and on page 22-377 I noticed that it states the following about the vehicle speed signal:
I was just curious, what 6MT countershaft component below would the transmission case countershaft speed sensor (28810-PCJ-004) location correlate with / pulse off of so that it can send the signal to the ECM/PCM for processing to the speedometer & other systems??
One sensor reads the mainshaft 3rd gear, the other sensor looks at reverse idler gear.
There's a misprint in the 03 CLS / 03-07 Accord / 04-08 TL service manual where they've got the names of those sensors swapped. 08+ Accord manual gets the names correct.
One sensor reads the mainshaft 3rd gear, the other sensor looks at reverse idler gear.
Thank you sir for the response.
Originally Posted by Bense
There's a misprint in the 03 CLS / 03-07 Accord / 04-08 TL service manualwhere they've got the names of those sensors swapped. 08+ Accord manual gets the names correct.
Good to know, thanks!
One more question, then I'll cease and desist on this Sunday.
From your experience, is this image below from Helms page 11-64 accurate in regards to the correct location of the two 6MT speed sensor locations?
TIA
03-02-2021, 03:56 PM
Bense's J-series Manual Transmission modifications thread (BenseBuilt Close-Ratio)
, I was looking through the Acura CL Helms service manual and on page 22-377 I noticed that it states the following about the vehicle speed signal:
