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Suspension Rattle Anyone? - RLX

 
Old 03-09-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by teamtlr View Post
I lowered the tire pressure on all 4 tires to 32psi from 35psi and it did not change anything so it might be the cold climate we are in here in Michigan contributing to the passenger side rattle over small bumps.


Yep--did that, even took the PSI's down to the high 20's and the LTPWS complained. Somewhat reduced how often the rattle happened,,, maybe... but still there just as loud.
I have heard this across all temperatures.
I did get delayed somewhat trying the fix I heard about, but will do so and post the results.


Keep complaining all,, this is just not right for such a vehicle. I am doing the same. I completely agree the clunks make this car sound like a clunker - very unlike several other models of cars I have had the chance to drive recently - even at half the price of the RLX. I must also add, except for that rattle, this car is pretty good overall.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:06 PM
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^^ That is not the same thump that the RDX and the ILX is experiencing I hope...
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:22 AM
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Acura N A and dealer response

The dealer asked me to bring the car in. I drove it with the tech. He heard the noise. They gave me an rlx loaner that rattled even worse than mine. They kept the car overnight. Then, they called me and said I should come pick it up. They told me the tech validated the noise, isolated it to the strut area. Acura has no recommended fix at this time. Apparently, they don't deem this a safety issue. The dealer also indicated they checked other cars in their inventory and found the same condition.
Then, Acura NA called me and apologized for the problem and said engineering has provided no information on the root cause analysis and any potential permanent corrective action. Told me that "engineering is ver tight-lipped" on the issue. He said I would most likely be notified by mail of whatever action is ultimately taken. Apologized again.
This does not convey the impression that Acura management is fully mobilized to determine the root cause and permanent corrective action for a very serious design and/or manufacturing defect in their flagship vehicle. Meanwhile, they are now aggressively advertising the new hybrid version of the rlx.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for the update. This is my first Acura and have owned a Honda pilot oddy fit and 2 accords and this rlx handles small bumps the worst. The loose strut rattle can't be normal. Sounds as if there is no dampening at.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:38 PM
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I have not experienced this rattle , yet. My RLX is in the 49XX range.
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:40 PM
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Thanks to all the members reporting in on issues. You are helping to improve this car for those of us who are interested in it. It is a bit unusual in my experience for the manufacturer to directly reach out as is reported in this thread. It is an indicator of Acura's interest in making the RLX right.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:02 PM
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mgalbr22...what is the build number of your vehicle? I'm in the 3xxx range, which I believe is still part of the earliest batches.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by holografique View Post
mgalbr22...what is the build number of your vehicle? I'm in the 3xxx range, which I believe is still part of the earliest batches.


Well, I had the chance to check the top nut on the strut. Many cars have the upper shock nut compress rubber bushings above/below where they contact the car structure.


The Acura RLX does not. The nut tightens against a solid metal bushing - absolutely no rubber compression effect happening at all. As expected, the nut torque peaks rapidly when tightened as it contacts the metal bushing.
But,,, that metal bushing is embedded in an assembly that is in turn bolted with 3 bolts to the wheel well area. (And the nuts for those bolts can be seen spread around the central shock nut area.) I am not sure if that assembly has rubber isolation or if the shock is essentially mounted directly to chassis metal in the wheel well.
And the 3 mount nuts were checked to make sure they were reasonably tight - they were, but did not try to torque them enough to make them tighter.
But to get to that upper shock mount assembly, the strut/spring must be removed.


So one more possibility on the RLX eliminated - but still the rattle.


I have not ruled out that mount as a problem, just the possibility of the nut perhaps being too loose on that metal bushing.


To me the sound does seem to come from the strut region.
I know one member on this forum has new shocks coming.. very interested to hear how that goes.


And very good to hear that this problem is getting some more visibility with Acura.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:07 PM
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[QUOTE=KenRLX;14921958]Well, I had the chance to check the top nut on the strut. Many cars have the upper shock nut compress rubber bushings above/below where they contact the car structure.QUOTE]
KenRLX- I also checked my upper strut assembly bolts and they are all tight as well. The temperatures are warming up and my car has almost 1000 miles so I will see if things changes as it gets above 32 degrees outside. I am hoping the dealer will hear it when I get time to make an appt.


I have to say the more I drive this car the more I love it. Aside from the missing body plugs that the dealer ordered, this rattle, bad wiper from sitting on the lot, and getting to learn the navigation features this car is really nice and seems to do everything well. I still can't get over the center channel clarity with the Krell audio system.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:26 AM
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I have a couple thousand miles on mine now, and I don't have the rattle some are talking about.

Just thought I'd weigh in.

.
.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:37 AM
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response from acura

acura client relations has informed me that they acknowledge the problem, have replicated it in their fleet cars and that engineering in japan is working on the defect. at this time,however, they do not have a root cause determination or a permanent corrective action, nor would they share a timeline with me about their problem solving steps and actions. i am on hold.
the condition seems to be getting worse every time i drive the car. it sounds like the suspension is completely bottoming out on even small bumps, sending a shudder through the steering and loud noise into the passenger compartment. it is not pleasant to drive, to say the least. i leave it parked most of the time and drive one of my other cars.
if you experience this problem and the dealer doesn't acknowledge it or informs you that all of the rlx's make the same noise, do not accept this.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
acura client relations has informed me that they acknowledge the problem, have replicated it in their fleet cars and that engineering in japan is working on the defect. at this time,however, they do not have a root cause determination or a permanent corrective action, nor would they share a timeline with me about their problem solving steps and actions. i am on hold.
the condition seems to be getting worse every time i drive the car. it sounds like the suspension is completely bottoming out on even small bumps, sending a shudder through the steering and loud noise into the passenger compartment. it is not pleasant to drive, to say the least. i leave it parked most of the time and drive one of my other cars.
if you experience this problem and the dealer doesn't acknowledge it or informs you that all of the rlx's make the same noise, do not accept this.
By any chance, has anybody given you his name and position, yet?
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:25 AM
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At least they are acknowledging the problem. Further, a root cause analysis takes time.

Any opportunity to secure a working loaner from the dealer?
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:52 PM
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Now that Acura has acknowledged there is a problem, it should be easy for them to identify the root cause.
A few vibration/shock accelerometers attached to suspect components is all it would take to zero in on the root cause of the problem.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:17 PM
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loaner

Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
At least they are acknowledging the problem. Further, a root cause analysis takes time.

Any opportunity to secure a working loaner from the dealer?
A loaner will be my next request if they don't come up with a root cause and permanent corrective action very soon.
It is just too annoying to drive in its current condition.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
A loaner will be my next request if they don't come up with a root cause and permanent corrective action very soon.
It is just too annoying to drive in its current condition.
Of course, it is possible that the fix may required considerable analysis, testing and then an engineering change that may involve tooling revisions, material changes, process changes, etc. However, my guess is that if the population of affected vehicles is limited, i.e. not endemic to every car, something changed that has caused this defect. If so, identifying the root cause and corrective action may not be as difficult and/or time-consuming.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:03 PM
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I will be taking mine in the next few weeks for the same thing...will see what they say and post.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:34 AM
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I'm still curious to know the VIN number on these vehicles having the issue to determine if it's from an earlier or later batch of vehicles. Mine is #3048, and from what I understand is considered an early batch. Mine had to be ordered and shipped straight in from Japan. I ordered mine last year in June, and got it about a month later.

For the most part my suspension is fairly quiet, but there are a few occasions here and there where I'm just like "hmmm...that seemed a bit excessive" when going over certain bumps, etc.

In other words, I NEVER used to question once or think twice about the suspension in my 3G TL. It was only when I moved to the RLX did it become something I occasionally noticed. It was more prominent when I lived in the city where the road conditions were far worse than where I live now. But I only had the RLX for about a month at my condo in downtown ATL before I moved out to the burbs, where most of the roads are butt smooth.

Last edited by holografique; 03-24-2014 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:27 PM
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VIN 49XX here and no suspension rattle noticed
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:36 AM
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Vin

Originally Posted by holografique View Post
I'm still curious to know the VIN number on these vehicles having the issue to determine if it's from an earlier or later batch of vehicles. Mine is #3048, and from what I understand is considered an early batch. Mine had to be ordered and shipped straight in from Japan. I ordered mine last year in June, and got it about a month later.

For the most part my suspension is fairly quiet, but there are a few occasions here and there where I'm just like "hmmm...that seemed a bit excessive" when going over certain bumps, etc.

In other words, I NEVER used to question once or think twice about the suspension in my 3G TL. It was only when I moved to the RLX did it become something I occasionally noticed. It was more prominent when I lived in the city where the road conditions were far worse than where I live now. But I only had the RLX for about a month at my condo in downtown ATL before I moved out to the burbs, where most of the roads are butt smooth.
Vin 6948
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:43 AM
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Zzzzzzzz

Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
acura client relations has informed me that they acknowledge the problem, have replicated it in their fleet cars and that engineering in japan is working on the defect. at this time,however, they do not have a root cause determination or a permanent corrective action, nor would they share a timeline with me about their problem solving steps and actions. i am on hold.
the condition seems to be getting worse every time i drive the car. it sounds like the suspension is completely bottoming out on even small bumps, sending a shudder through the steering and loud noise into the passenger compartment. it is not pleasant to drive, to say the least. i leave it parked most of the time and drive one of my other cars.
if you experience this problem and the dealer doesn't acknowledge it or informs you that all of the rlx's make the same noise, do not accept this.
A week after advising me that engineering in Japan was working on the problem, I have heard nothing further. I contacted client relations again and have not even received a return phone call. I informed my dealer of the status and requested a loaner. He offered to look into it again, but did not yet respond on the loaner.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
Vin 6948
Frightening
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
Vin 6948
That is a little scary and makes me wonder if the dealer might have missed something.

The RLX suspension is very, very complicated, having nothing in common with other production vehicles (except the upcoming NSX).

If they haven't checked every single bolt and connection for a possibility, even going so far as to remove the reactive dampers and check them thoroughly, then they haven't done their duty to the customer or to Acura/Honda.

Your production number is too far down the line to be affected by the early run shake downs.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:35 PM
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Should we get some form of compensation for being test mules? I see that some of the early on hiccups should have been ironed out before, or soon after, production started. I know...blah, blah, phooey.
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Old 03-29-2014, 04:10 PM
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Got loaner for a day. They tightened front suspension to proper torque, and could not replicate the rattle...but it is still there.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:30 AM
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Repair

Originally Posted by el_zorro1 View Post
Got loaner for a day. They tightened front suspension to proper torque, and could not replicate the rattle...but it is still there.
Are you saying the dealer claimed they could not detect any problem both before and after torquing the bolts?! Just sent you away with the same problem? Or did they acknowledge there is a problem but simply don't have a fix for it?
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:04 PM
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could not detect any problem...sent me away with the same problem.
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:16 PM
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can you hear the problem with the windows all closed?
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:30 AM
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Rattle

Originally Posted by getakey View Post
can you hear the problem with the windows all closed?
It makes no difference.
I suppose if you turned the audio up to ear-splitting levels, you wouldn't hear it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by el_zorro1 View Post
could not detect any problem...sent me away with the same problem.
From watching how people are posting and reading between the lines, it does not seem to me like the local service organization have pulled out all the stops in an attempt to solve this.

A dealership might not even have the equipment necessary.

They have to be prepared to go as far as taking an entire suspension assembly apart and putting the dampers and springs on a press to make sure they are doing what they are designed to do.

I'm tempted to ask someone who is experiencing this problem to try to deliberately provoke it while recording it, and publishing the recording for us so that some of us might be able to advise whether it really even is a suspension problem.

Just because it's being heard when the suspension is under a certain pressure does not absolutely and undeniably prove that it is a part of the suspension making this noise.

I remember that a particular 4G TL owner had a very difficult time diagnosing a problem with his car and he had to keep at it until Acura took his car away and gave him a loaner car for an extended period. They never could figure out how it happened or how his car got into his hands with so bad a problem, but they discovered a series of welds were done improperly and there was no way to fix it.

In that case, although it was and continues to be a very, very rare occurrence with any Honda or Acura, they felt it would be best to give him a new car and swallow the entire cost of his original car start to finish.

I don't want to alarm anybody...but even with Honda and Acura, there are these rare things that crop up.

And they're not going to be like GM and engage in a 10-year long running conspiracy to disguise the truth. :-)
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by George Knighton View Post

I'm tempted to ask someone who is experiencing this problem to try to deliberately provoke it while recording it, and publishing the recording for us so that some of us might be able to advise whether it really even is a suspension problem.
I suggested that a recording be made back in post #24, but nobody complied...glad someone else has the same idea.
By the way, I don't think mine has the problem and the vin is in the early 4400's
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by scv76 View Post
I suggested that a recording be made back in post #24, but nobody complied...glad someone else has the same idea.
By the way, I don't think mine has the problem and the vin is in the early 4400's


Already picked up a couple of small microphones to strap to various parts of the car. I agree with the caution - it sounds like suspension parts but could be motor mounts, exhaust, or something else.


So getting some recordings while the mic's are attached to different parts may help isolate the cause. I plan a stereo recording from different components at the same time for comparison of the two channels to compare intensity of sound to better track the source.
Don't have a 5.1 recording capability, or I'd try that - I suspect the acura NVH teams have the ability of up to dozens of mic's at a time.


Now, just need a break from the day job to give it a try.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:27 AM
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rattle

Originally Posted by getakey View Post
can you hear the problem with the windows all closed?
does your car have the suspension rattle? if so, what are the last four of the VIN?
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
does your car have the suspension rattle? if so, what are the last four of the VIN?

When I posted the question I did not own an RLX, and I was just wondering how loud the noise.

As of last night, I am now a new owner of RLX, but take delivery today. Keeping fingers crossed about rattle
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:43 PM
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^^ Congrats!!! That must be exciting eh?! I am so itchy to get a new car but we need to get rid of the 7-8 feet of snow on the ground first
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:05 PM
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I hope existing RLX owners keep the faith -- Honda is a responsible company and I am sure they will fix this issue for you. Honda is one company that has, IMHO, stepped up (and will continue to step up) on issues like this, especially on their flagship product.

Chris
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:36 AM
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The message being communicated by Acura client relations to owners is very inconsistent. Some are being told the suspension problem and rattle are "characteristic" of the car, while others are being told that engineering in Japan is aware of the issue and is working on a fix. This inconsistency is not indicative of a well managed operation and may not bode well for an expeditious resolution of the problem.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:54 PM
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Like any large company, you'll have issues like that. They will stand up and make it right, once they figure out a fix. It isn't as simple as redesigning a part -- there's a vendor involved who makes the part, there's a certification process that has to happen, etc.

It will happen.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:11 PM
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So I think I experienced the "rattle" today. It was while driving at very slow speeds (15mph) across some old-school brick roads, in particular a section where it was rather bumpy.

From what I could tell it came from the front center to right side of the vehicle and sounded to me like if there was a huge box full of pieces of large heavy objects that were all covered with soft velvet rattling and tumbling around. Almost like the sound of an old kids big-wheel or plastic truck tumbling over some bumps...seriously! It wasn't a harsh metal or plastic vibration. It was dull "thud" type rattling. And it wasn't vibration because the rate of the "thuds" was much slower than what you would get with smaller plastic or metal vibration issues.

Not sure if this sounds similar to your problem mgalbr22, but that's the best I could describe it. Where I live, most if not all the roads are very smooth, so it's just not common enough to have noticed that it could be an underlying issue. The bigger issue here is without having a GS450, 5-series or A6 just laying around waiting in line for me to drive over the same spot under the same conditions to do proper empirical A/B testing, it's hard to say if it's really a "problem" or it's just "perception". And therein lays the bigger issue for Acura in having to really do some proper testing for something that could be somewhat "subjective" based on perspective of the individual complaining.

Last edited by holografique; 04-02-2014 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:19 PM
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Rattle

Originally Posted by holografique View Post
So I think I experienced the "rattle" today. It was while driving at very slow speeds (15mph) across some old-school brick roads, in particular a section where it was rather bumpy.

From what I could tell it came from the front center to right side of the vehicle and sounded to me like if there was a huge box full of pieces of large heavy objects that were all covered with soft velvet rattling and tumbling around. Almost like the sound of an old kids big-wheel or plastic truck tumbling over some bumps...seriously! It wasn't a harsh metal or plastic vibration. It was dull "thud" type rattling. And it wasn't vibration because the rate of the "thuds" was much slower than what you would get with smaller plastic or metal vibration issues.

Not sure if this sounds similar to your problem mgalbr22, but that's the best I could describe it. Where I live, most if not all the roads are very smooth, so it's just not common enough to have noticed that it could be an underlying issue. The bigger issue here is without having a GS450, 5-series or A6 just laying around waiting in line for me to drive over the same spot under the same conditions to do proper empirical A/B testing, it's hard to say if it's really a "problem" or it's just "perception". And therein lays the bigger issue for Acura in having to really do some proper testing for something that could be somewhat "subjective" based on perspective of the individual complaining.
What you are describing appears to be something subtle. The problem I have experienced, along with others, is not subtle, nor is it subjective. It can be heard and felt while driving over smooth asphalt whenever passing over a manhole cover, water main cover, expansion joint, railroad tracks, etc. This defect has been observed and verified by Acura dealer techs and Acura engineering, as well as client relations. As far as I can tell, they have yet to identify the root cause of the defect, nor have they determined the permanent corrective action, although I have been informed that a design and/or material change of the struts is being considered.
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