Colin

FYI, there is an issue with the reflector in the JewelEye that can cause delamination that reduces light output. This is for '14-15 RLX and parts are starting to enter the pipeline. Expect a letter notifying you of this as more parts become available.

FredS

This is very discouraging. With this, the suspension problem with the RLX and the transmission problem with the TLX what is going on at Acura? I am beginning to think just keep my bullet proof 2010 RL or jump ship to Lexus. This really confirms J D Power's rating of Acura as #25 out of 32 in initial quality. The day Volkswagen and Land Rover are higher is incredible. I know we will get the post that states "my RLX or TLX is great" but obvious something is wrong at Acura. When you go from #3 to #25 quality control is failing big time. This is based on the 2014 models. Next year's based on the post here referencing all the issues Acura might very well be #32.


2014 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS) | J.D. Power

hondamore

We haven't heard any owner complaints about the Jewel Eye headlights, so I assume this is just Acura getting ahead of a possible future problem. They get kudos from me for being proactive rather than wait and only do something once people start to complain.

Acura is at the mercy of it's suppliers when it comes to quality and as hard as they work to ensure that all suppliers are vetted for quality and durable products, NEW and UNIQUE items that have never been produced before are always going to be riskier when it comes to durability.

Just my two cents.

Colin

LOL, I'm glad new issues make you so happy. IMO, every manufacturer is overreacting to EVERYTHING these days and probably resulting in an overabundance of caution.

Zoommer

Thanks for the heads up. Here is the other post on this topic from leftlanenews.
By Justin King

Friday, Dec 12th, 2014 @ 11:24 am

Acura has issued a recall for its new RLX sedan to fix an issue with the all-LED headlamps. The 'Jewel Eye' lights are built with a reflective film backing material that is said to be prone to delamination. The issue can result in non-compliance with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, which relates to headlight aim, brightness, reflectors and other lighting aspects.

The company claims to be unaware of any accidents or injuries that have been blamed on the problem.

The campaign affects both 2014 and 2015 models, including approximately 9,700 vehicles sold in the US. Owners can expect to receive notification via mail sometime in early February.

I agree that being proactive is good. Also...this is the downside of being early adopter as well as beta tester...that is what the RLX SH-AWD is all about.

By the way the comment of "at the mercy of the supplier" is so true...the seat belt as well as the GM ignition switch is proof of that.

Just as FYI this is a partial list of supplier to the accord....no one builds a car from scratch where all parts are sourced in house any more.

Malibu Flyer

Am I correct that this will include the Sports Hybrid also? I assume the Jewel Eye Headlights are the same in the Sports Hybrid and the PAWS RLXs.

Colin

Indeed, the supplier to manufacture relationship is a complex one. I remember in the months following the resumption of production after the effects of the tsunami had started to ease, we started having difficulty with TSX models "forgetting" The pairing information. At first, it seemed like user error, later it was isolated to the Bluetooth module. However, replacing the module didn't result in a guaranteed fix. I remember endless calls to the folks at hands-free link.com (Johnson Controls) as well as Acura tech line. In the end, we never figured out if there had been a production change in the modules themselves due to parts being in short supply (tsunami or Thailand flooding), or if some other component had been changed on the line.

Yes, all RLXs will have to be inspected. A bigger concern to me would be if this recall were extended to include TLX and MDX models. Also, could it potentially affect the rollout of the 2016 ILX?

fsmith

I spoke to my dealer's service department today (to inquire about the NAV problem I posted about today) and they told me that my Hybrid was part of the recall, but that there were no parts available yet.

I agree that this sounds like good news that they are doing this before they have to, though it also sounds like they may have no choice because the lights are part of the Federal safety specifications. I believe that replacing both lights is a $4,000 per car affair, which comes to about $40M!

Malibu Flyer

At the risk of getting too much into the weeds, your comment about needing to be inspected implies that the defect only impacts some of the headlights. Has Acura determined how to tell the difference between headlights that are OK vs. ones that need replacement. Given the reported very high cost of these bulbs/assemblies, it would seem Acura [or the supplier] will be cautious about replacing all headlights. Lastly, can the existing headlights be repaired or does the fix require replacing the entire assembly/bulbs?

Thanks in advance and many thanks for the heads up on this issue.

Colin

I read the bulletin where it said "affected" and thought that some might not be. However, after reading your message and re-reading the bulletin, it seems like all are included. The problem will be supply of replacement parts. It may take some time to fill the pipeline.

MisterZDX

Posts like these make me even more reassured that I made the right decision by purchasing my rock solid 2013 ZDX instead of an RLX. Now if things turn around for the 2016 MMC, I might reconsider.

EE4Life

See TSB 14-051 in the TSB sticky thread.

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...thread-921955/

Edward'TLS

There's also a "driving-shaft recall", a "seat belt recall", a "hard brake pedal when starting", and a "engine compartment mysterious fire with one 2014 MDX member" problems with the latest MDX.

Most brand new design-from-the-ground-up vehicles will have 1st-year-qualilty issues, and Acura isn't immune from this shortcoming with all its latest vehicle offerings.

flagship

It makes you wonder how we survived with shift levers in automatics, regular headlights, cars that did not have electric motors but still got good mileage, cars that had 4-5 gears but shifted smooth and were responsive, cars that did not need to go back to the dealer (or was I just lucky), etc for all these years (ranting sorry).....I still wonder if things are getting better or worse while more complicated.....time for me to get back to the future.

holografique

Thanks for the heads up Colin.

mgalbr22

See my entry on the tlx trans recall thread.

fsmith

Things have certainly gotten safer, quieter, and more comfortable, at the least.

Zoommer

Checked my VIN and the only recall showing up is this one--the Jewel Eye. According to the post I will be advised around January 30, 2015.

fsmith

Zoomer - Where do you check your VIN for a list of applicable recalls?

Zoommer

Go to Acura.com ? Official Home of Acura Cars and SUVs

Top right, second row, should say OWNERS. Click on it. You will be sent to the following link

https://owners.acura.com/login

Sign on on the screen below. The Acura APP on my iphone also sends me messages--everything from how to use a particular function/feature to recall information.

Pretty neat.

Hope this helps.

Colin

It's interesting that you mention this. I had a similar discussion in the store with our shop foreman who's been around cars a really long time. I think that we tend to view these things with rose-colored glasses however. For example, the Legend had a four-speed transmission that was incredibly responsive but slammed from gear to gear. Today, our six or nine speed automatic's seem to have traded some of that responsiveness for improvements and smoothness. A 96 3.5 RL 4AT traded responsiveness for smoothness.

My old 2005 RSX (5MT) would struggle to do 25 miles per gallon in my daily commute. My 2013 ILX (6MT) does 28 to 30 mpg in the same commute. Arguably, traffic is worse these days then back then so it's harder to do well.

As for lighting, I'm not 100% sure that JewelEyes represent the same quantum leap that xenon's did over halogen, or haloge did over sealed beams. In fact, I'm quite sure that they do not. Especially once you factor in cost. In the end, it's still a business and sometimes decisions get made that have more impact in perception then they do in performance. If Acura didn't move forward with LED headlights, they would risk the perception that they are "falling behind" even if xenon lighting works just as well.

George Knighton

We all do that. The world moves too quickly, and sometimes we want it to slow down long enough for us to really learn how to enjoy the old thing before we're forced to start learning about a new thing.

Just when they've finally convinced us that what they've given us is logical, and good, they're asking us to go on to something else that's even better and more logical.

I like that car a lot!! The feel of driving it takes me back to my roots, but it also gives enough modern technology that you can enjoy yourself without feeling you're in an old fashioned car.

Personally, I'd change two things.

I'd want an Advance Package kind of thing in the 6MT, and I'd want a good, old fashioned Honda Torsen axle on the nose.

For lack of a Torsen axle, a Civic Si is going to basically kick your *** in some activities. Don't know why they didn't give the car that.

They don't. You're right. Not so far as usable light output goes, at least.

There's two advantages that I can think of. First, the LED are going to last basically forever. We got a big step forward with HID, but they will still go out during the life of the car, and sometimes during the first owner's experience with the car, and they are expensive to replace.

The LED...well, they last so long that I don't think anybody's ever projected just how long they're going to last.

Second.... The way that Honda has done the Jewel Eye design, with so many small bulbs and each one aimed slightly differently, the performance difference that might be noticeable to somebody going from one kind of headlight to another is the coverage on the road. It's only slightly better than the HID on the 4G TL, but it is noticeable.

R. White

My dealer also confirmed today that the replacement RLX headlights are on back-order. The stop-sale on the TLX is making him use bad words in reference to Acura headquarters.

oo7spy

Fred, have you forgotten where your bullet-proof 2010 RL came from? The 2005 RL is riddled with almost as many common issues as it has features. Honda will iron out the wrinkles and life will go on.

ImagioX1

I bought some RLX headlights off ebay that were delaminating. Here are some pics.

George Knighton

I read somewhere (don't remember where) that we were probably not going to get the recall letter until February.

oo7spy

I am a little perplexed why this is even an issue. My encounters with delamination (semiconductors) happen with high heat and humidity. Neither of these should be a problem with an LED headlight assembly. I wonder id the adhesive is just crap and what country they are made in.

fsmith

Acura said February in its press release.

TampaRLX-SH

Stanley Electric of Japan: http://contents.xj-storage.jp/conten...0108935104.pdf

fsmith

Is this not the same headlight as the one that is used in the MDX? Why have only the smaller number of RLXs been recalled? Country of manufacture? Different supplier?

George Knighton

First Design issues?

TampaRLX-SH

Same manufacturer / supplier for all Honda / Acura Jewel Eyes.

On the positive: The RLX was released earlier than the MDX. So perhaps more testing on the materials was performed before the MDX Jewel Eyes were launched.

On the negative: So few RLXs were made to offer a sample of the defect and the frequency. So it may not have been discovered until after the MDX launch. Further I read several reports of MDX Jewel Eyes with moisture issues, which may (or may not) contribute to the delamination problem.

Hopefully it is isolated to the RLX which is a relatively small sample. If inherent to all Jewel Eyes to date, that is the risk of offering a new technology across most models before thoroughly tested (including durability), which is very un-Honda like.

neuronbob

Sounds like Honda needs to bring some parts manufacture back in house, so quality control is better?

mgalbr22

The problem with these recalls is that the mfr does not identify the root cause of the defect or failure and, disgracefully, nhtsa allows them to issue recalls and tsbs without doing so. Delamination is the failure mode not the root cause of the failure, just as contamination is/may be (?) the failure mode of the tlx transmission but not the root cause. One important aspect of this critical difference is one has no idea whether the root cause is design, material and/or process related. Likewise, one could assume there is some difference between the rlx and the mdx headlamps, but not knowing the true root cause of the defect, nor the difference-if any-between the headlamps, there is no way to know whether the mdx has the same defect or not. The only safe and intelligent approach is to assume that they share enough design, material and process similarities that one should assume they are equally defective until proven otherwise. Manufacturers and suppliers often fail to ask this question when a failure occurs in the field or in testing, thus leaving them vulnerable to later discovering a much larger population of potentially defective parts.
In both of these recalls, it is very easy to determine that the reported casue of the failure is not the root cause simply by asking the question "what caused the Delamination?" Or "what caused the contamination?" Clearly, there must be a cause or multiple causes. The mere process of going through this exercise exposes whether the true root cause of the failure has been determined. Then, the failure must be replicated under controlled conditions to validate that the true root cause has been identified. Only then can an interim corrective and permanent corrective action be developed and implemented.
Having been through this exercise more times than I care to remember when I worked for a major automotive supplier, I am painfully aware of the process and the pitfalls of not following the discipline correctly and fully.
By the way, it never ceased to amaze me how often experienced design, process and quality engineers failed to grasp the importance of this problem-solving process or failed to implement it correctly. I guess nhtsa doesn't either or simply doesn't care whether the mfr provides this information to the consumer.

CFoote

As frustrating as it is, be thankful Honda/Acura are stepping up and resolving the problem. This won't be a cheap fix for them (or Stanley electronics).

With the increasing complexity of these cars, there will be recalls and TSBs. Very complex stuff...

BTW Stanley is very well known in Japan, they don't make junk.

Chris

neuronbob

Apparently, they did this time. No one's perfect and at least some recourse has been offered, so I won't complain.

TampaRLX-SH

As with most suppliers, I am sure Honda has a warranty agreement with the part. What percentage if not all is to be paid by Stanley. Acura will likely pick up the dealer labor costs. However, in the public eye it is an Acura issue, so they may be grateful if it is limited to the off-the-radar RLX.

Interesting times for the brand. Will it mostly all settle a year after all these new model launches?

FredS

Don't quit you day job to become a psychic. Re-read my post about these initial quality issues and please tell me where in the world you can process that all these issues would make me happy. Don't drink and drive and don't drink and post. I have only owned Acura's and Honda's and have enjoyed tremendously every single one. Again as previously stated I have been contemplating the purchase of a used RLX or new TLX. If one is going to make a $40,000 and is not concerned about all these major issues IMO is not a very thorough shopper. Are these initial quality issues going to turn into dependability issues three years from now? It makes me sad that Acura is having all these issues.

ImagioX1

The MDX and RLX headlights work totally different. The MDX ues a traditional reflector that focuses the light onto a lens and then is projected out the front of the headlight. The RLX on the other hand is much more complicated. Its hard to explain so I drew a quick diagram.



As you can see the reflective material is secured to the back of the lens. This reflective material must not be secured very well as it has started to flake away.

oo7spy

I agree with Tampa's point. This is a supplier issue and Honda will recoup fiscal losses on future sales contracts. The damage to public image is the part that will hurt.