RLX-Sport Hybrid

Ok guys I could not resist. I stopped by a Tesla dealership and took one out for a test drive. Let me say with the loudest voice possible............. WOW!!!!!!! Insane mode is not insane. It is nuts, crazy, stupid, and I can't figure out what else to say! WOW!!!! The first hit of torque is freaking bananas!! Now after reattaching my retinas and putting my head back on my shoulders (of course I am exaggerating), the rest of the car was not as awesome as I hoped. That was disappointing. The sound system staging is unbelievable and the dash is ultra modern, but the back seats were hard and tight, the head room was clearly less than the RLX, and the materials were no better. The trunk space in the front and back are fantastic although unusual, but I did not feel like I was in a $122,000 car as designed. $75,000 yes, but not $122,000. That was disappointing.

Back to the driving dynamics. The handling was far superior to most cars of the road, but not dynamically better than the RLX-SH which was complimenting both cars. Turn-in inputs are about identical, and braking was essentially the same in the real world, meaning the initial bite is just about spot on, and the progressive application feel is excellent in both cars. The balance of both seemed to be almost equal, if not slightly tipped towards the RLX-SH as being ever so slightly better. What was odd was that the ambient noise was MORE in the Tesla even when compared to the RLX-SH when the ICE is engaged! That surprised me. I even noted it to the salesman that I was surprised that the noise was as much as I heard. He questioned me so after we got back we took a brief drive in my SH and he confirmed that the RLX-SH is indeed significantly quieter than the Tesla. Very surprising.

So here is my summary: The Tesla P85D is stupendously fast, like Saturn 5 Rocket fast, and that is about as much of a selling point there is for me. At $75,000 I would be a buyer, but at $122,000, I'm passing. If I did not have the RLX-SH maybe I would feel differently, but driving them back to back, the Tesla is not different enough for me to be attracted to it. That being said it shows just how fabulous the RLX-SH is!

neuronbob

It's still surprising how many Sport Hybrid owners are interested in the Tesla Model S.

Honestly, if I'm paying $122k for a P85D, it's not that much more of a stretch for a NSX. It sounds insanely fun to drive, though!

Malibu Flyer

Very interesting comparison. I happened to be in my friend's 2 year old Tesla S yesterday and I will agree with you that my RLX Sport Hybrid is quieter. I will also say that I found that I like the interior of the RLX better than the Tesla S [I don't know if the new model "D" has better materials than the "S" i was in]. Perhaps the only exception is that clearly the infotainment system with its 17" touch screen and ability to sync to the Tesla mother ship for software updates, if vastly superior to the RLX [not a high bar].

I was particularly interested in your handling impressions. They surprised me. I haven't driven the "S" so I have nothing to compare the Sports Hybrid to. I just assumed the "D" would handle better than the RLX given its low center of gravity, superior power coupled with the same type of torque vectoring as the Sport Hybrid.

Not really fair to compare the cars given the price difference but I'm sure many RLX Hybrid drivers will find your thoughts on the Tesla D of great interest.

If I'm dreaming, I might as well dream of the NSX....the Tesla D vs. the NSX is a comparison i really like to see! FYI - Car and Driver just published some preliminary thoughts about the NSX:

2016 Acura NSX Dissected: Powertrain, Chassis, and More ? Feature ? Car and Driver

RLX-Sport Hybrid

What a great find!!!!

In retrospect, it would be hard for any car to launch any harder than the P85D unless they were attached to a catapult on an air craft carrier. I was prepared for it and it even got me surprised. You can't help but smile when it hits you. The best I can muster for an analogy is imagine getting rear ended by a semi going about 50 mph (without the damage and carnage). That about does it.

When I was driving very inappropriately on curvy roads I know very well (I think the salesman was soiling himself but I can't confirm), the point and shoot abilities are nothing short of spectacular. The immediacy of the thrust, and the continuous nature of its delivery are things that make little boys dream (well the other dream since the first one has Victoria Secret models in that one). The road I was on I think had a 30 mph speed limit and other than in the sharp turns where I was probably slowing to around 40 mph, in the very short straights I easily hit 90 mph (ok yes I broke every law in the land but nobody was around). That does not describe the thrust capabilities very well. Let me try. Imagine being able to accelerate from 40-90mph in about 50 yards (my estimation). That should do it. Ok back to the dynamics: There was very little body roll, very little squat on acceleration or braking, no squeaks, rattles or lose teeth that I could find. My wallet did fly into the back seat....... no that is an exaggeration.....that was one of my kidneys. Yup it was freaking bananas!!!

Did I have fun? You bet. Would it be a roller coaster ride everyday, yup. Would I be in jail for speeding, absolutely. Quite frankly I am surprised that has not happened yet with the shenanigans I have enjoyed in the RLX-SH, but those videos will be uploaded as soon as I can figure out the technical issues I am working on. More on that soon.

It just shows how great the RLX-SH is by comparison because the P85D is not enough of a difference to warrant the vast difference in cost. Now the NSX is a whole different can of beans. That might be if it does not cost $180,000.

accord1999

Technically the RLX SH is superior as the P85D only has open differentials and uses braking to shift torque.

mgalbr22

I test drove the model s a number of months ago before the awd version was released. In theory, given the nearly 50/50 weight distribution of the rear wheel model, the awd feature would seem superfluous. Tesla apparently felt it necessary for marketing purposes since buyers of conventional internal combustion and hybrid cars have become accustomed to expecting it, even as an added cost option.
Driving the car was an almost indescribable revelation for me. In fact, when my friends asked me what it was like, I could only say it needs to be driven to understand how radically different the driver experience is. It's not just about the instantaneous, massive and virtually silent torque. It's about something as startling as the braking. No, not when you step on the brakes, but when you don't. As you let off the accelerator, the electric motor slows the vehicle dramatically. Similar to downshifting 2-3 gears, but with no action whatsoever on the part of the driver. A radically new experience. In fact the brakes are warranted to 100k because you scarcely need them. I experienced this while descending a steep, winding road after rocketing down through a few of the curves. I'm not saying the stopping power is better than 911 turbo, just that the experience of this seemingly subtle difference is remarkable.
I wonder whether the noise difference you describe is wind, road/tire noise or mechanical noise. I know the car I test drove had 21" tires, which are a great but expensive upgrade option. I doubt the RLX has 21",but don't know.
A concern that gets minimal attention is the fact that the battery pack -like any battery-deteriorates over time. Not that the average model s buyer cares, but by year 8 or 10, the battery holds far less charge than when new. Furthermore, the cost to replace the battery pack is apparently close to $10k. While this cost may decline, a buyer of a less pricey tesla, who cares about resale value, should consider this disadvantage. Any other well maintained low mileage 8 year old car should retain its resale value far better. If not the first owner, the second or third will take the hit for this.
The tesla model s is a reasonably large, pure electric passenger car with lots of trunk space, not really comparable to an NSX other than perhaps in performance terms and cost.
Reliability is a huge question for both brands

George Knighton

I also drove the previous non-AWD Model S.

I did not like it as much as I thought that I would, and it was related to glitches in the interface..weirdness in the design...and odd things that an automobile manufacturer should not miss when designing a car that costs that much.

Quality of materials. Head room less than a 6'2" American would need, never mind a 6'4" American. Not enough seat adjustments and lack of easy power adjustments. A weird lack of quality of materials in the interior.

A giant iPad is not an answer to anything unless you can actually use iOS [!!], and we should not be able to browse the Web while the car is moving at 60 miles per hour.

That kind of thing.

Now, mind you, I fully appreciate the huge step forward that Tesla took with the range of an electric vehicle, and allowing the kind of performance to reach the street, the kind of performance we've always known electrics were capable of providing.

But I would not buy one in its current state of development.

I think it's going to take a few months of cooperation with somebody like Apple, or somebody like Lexus, for Tesla to put together modifications that would cause somebody like me to buy one.

For whatever one dumb old man's opinion is worth. :-)

fsmith

I also drove a Model S (not D), and I agree with George. It drives real good, but it is not a mature automobile and so lacks the small things that experienced automobile manufacturers know how to do.

Mike_TX

Any pure-electric vehicle - whether it be a Tesla or a Leaf - that leaves you stranded on the side of the road when the juice runs out is out of the question for me.

You can't get a can of electricity from the nearby electric station and put it in your tank and go on. And the Tesla charging stations are only on certain roads in certain states, so you would have to plan road trips around them.

Too limiting for me.

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Malibu Flyer

[QUOTE At $75,000 I would be a buyer, but at $122,000, I'm passing. If I did not have the RLX-SH maybe I would feel differently, but driving them back to back, the Tesla is not different enough for me to be attracted to it. That being said it shows just how fabulous the RLX-SH is![/QUOTE]

Tesla just announced a new model, 70D starting at $70,000 after rebates. You can't drive it yet and it isn't as powerful as the 85D but it has AWD and reportedly does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds. Perhaps this will be competition for the RLX Sports Hybrid?

Here is a link to an LA Times article:

New Tesla Model S 70D all-electric sedan to cost less than $70,000 - LA Times

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I sat in a Tesla S before and other than the super large screen, the interior does not impress me at all. It just feels too cheap for a car at that price point. The RLX feels a lot more comfortable and way more luxurious to me.

neuronbob

Hmmmm. I'd consider a 70D. That car is aimed right at me. I've already got insane performance in my CTS-V so, like my RLX, I'd consider "merely quick". If I hadn't leased my RLX, I'd be all over this to use purely as a local commuter.

George Knighton

Not me.

Lexus or Apple is going to have to help Musk understand more about cars.

Interesting basic idea regarding suspension design. People don't talk about that very much. As interesting as it is, I suspect it will go in the trash when he hooks up with somebody.

Consumer Reports famously reported that the regular one motor Model S was the best car that they'd ever tested. Facts and figures, yes, that's right. You can even drift one if you really want. :-) But we've got to live with a car for a lot of mileage, and right now a lot of purchasers who'd normally go with an LS460, or any other regular car in the Tesla's price range, are just not going to want to live forever with the design of the car.

Musk has shown us that these zero emission high performance cars can be built and he proved that people will buy them, if in small numbers.

He has not shown us that his economic model is sustainable, and he has not shown us that he knows how to build a good all around car.

He's got to team up with somebody who has a good, solid history of satisfying consumers with solid design ideas and processes.