Notices

Acura RLX Reviews (Sport Hybrid reviews pg 21)

 
Old 04-10-2013, 11:32 AM
  #241  
Senior Moderator
 
neuronbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cleveland area, OH
Posts: 19,266
Received 3,529 Likes on 1,780 Posts
The automotive press heaps lavish praise on the new Accord. I do, too, it is an excellent car with good styling.

The RLX? The press obviously hates it. In fact, the hate seems almost as intense as, if not more intense than, the hate surrounding the 4G TL.

Consumer Reports not only didn't like, but didn't recommend, the 2G RL, but their review of the RL was not this bad. This is a pretty awful review, even for CR. I mean, just wow. .

So what is Honda's response going to be? Are they going to respond lightning fast like they did with the Civic? Are they going to fight back against the automotive press? Are they going to go "deer in the headlights" and just wait for the sales loss? Are they going to go by sales? (Note: even the much maligned 2012 Civic was the 3rd best selling car in the U.S., so Honda didn't have to do anything, yet it did...) It'll be interesting to see....

EDIT: I didn't see TSX's post above, which mine appears to echo.

Last edited by neuronbob; 04-10-2013 at 11:35 AM.
neuronbob is offline  
The following users liked this post:
GoHawks (04-10-2013)
Old 04-10-2013, 11:55 AM
  #242  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX View Post
Value is very clear. quieter & spacious than competition like GS/BMW 5.
You cannot compromise on quietness in this category. it is not sports car. Safety already at top. (TSP+) Lexus are very poor designed for newer tests.
Acceptable performance/handling from all season tire setup. these are only 245 wide tires. so not much expensive to replace.
I presume the music system ELS with 14 speaker will outperform every thing else barring the optional B&O in Germans.
Full LED lights. which are either not present or more expensive option in competition.
No need to go over reliability factor. as it assumed that it will be superior over long term. No turbo charging in engine. I dont think this car will be slower between 60 to 120mph than GS/BMW 535/E350 which is critical for passing/merging. it is not turbo charge so little slower off the line. but once it gets up to speed. Its superior aerodynamic will give big advantage. on long drives 35+ mpg reasonable. Acura is very conservative with fuel economic figures.

Well you are in the minority. No one else holds the same opinion and it seems pretty consistent. I predict it won't sell.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:59 AM
  #243  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
The automotive press heaps lavish praise on the new Accord. I do, too, it is an excellent car with good styling.

The RLX? The press obviously hates it. In fact, the hate seems almost as intense as, if not more intense than, the hate surrounding the 4G TL.

Consumer Reports not only didn't like, but didn't recommend, the 2G RL, but their review of the RL was not this bad. This is a pretty awful review, even for CR. I mean, just wow. .

So what is Honda's response going to be? Are they going to respond lightning fast like they did with the Civic? Are they going to fight back against the automotive press? Are they going to go "deer in the headlights" and just wait for the sales loss? Are they going to go by sales? (Note: even the much maligned 2012 Civic was the 3rd best selling car in the U.S., so Honda didn't have to do anything, yet it did...) It'll be interesting to see....

EDIT: I didn't see TSX's post above, which mine appears to echo.

It's been a long time since I have seen a review from CR that has been this critical. Probably not since some of the reviews of the domestics years ago.

Not company Acura wants to be in.

Like you, as uninspired as I was with the intro of the RLX, I wasn't expecting this ravaging.

WOW is right.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:05 PM
  #244  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 32
Posts: 9,028
Received 572 Likes on 385 Posts
I think that is a fair poor review from Consumer Report, and no I'm not talking about the RLX, but the review itself. It seems like CR is trying really hard to make the RLX look worse than it really is.

First, how do they know the hybrid version will start at $60k plus? Is that official or not?

When they list the features that the RLX does not have, CR failed to mention that those features are all available in high trim(s). The way they wrote it would make readers think the RLX simply does not offer those features.

Reading Jeff's review of the RLX from TOV, he has found that the RLX is no BMW 5 series. But it's more than enough compared to cars such as GS and E Class in terms of handling.

Other mags commented the controls and found them very easy to operate, while CR found it difficult to use. May be CR testers are just too stupid?

After the 2012 Civic review from CR, I'd take CR reviews with a grain of salt. While the 2012 Civic is not up to the usual Honda standards, the comments made by CR of that Civic were simply untrue. I see the same thing again happening with the RLX.

At $55k, it really doesn't get you much with the German mid-size luxury sedans. Let's take a look at the 535i for instance.

Base price: $53.4k
Destination: $0.9k
Titanium Silver Metallic Paint: $550
Technology Pkg (i.e. Navi): $2800
Total: $57,645

At this price point, the BMW does not have heated steering wheel, heat seats (front and back), power shades, fog lights, back up camera (let alone back up sensors), cross-traffic alert. Heck, it doesn't even have LED headlights, collision warning, lane departure warning, premium hi-fi system, keyless entry, paddle shifters, etc.

Let's make things more comparable shall we?

Driver Assistance Package (back up cam): $1900
Driver Assistance Plus (lane depature warning): $700
COld weather package: $950
Premium Package (keyless entry): $1500
Paddle Shifters: $500
M Sport Package (required to get if you want paddle shifters): $2900
B&O Sound system: $4500
Total: $70.5k

The above is then slightly better equipped (i.e. rear heated seats) than the RLX Tech. But we are talking about a difference of $15k or so.

Why don't we also compare the RLX Advance with the 535i?

Shades: $575
Active Cruise Control: $2400
Total: $73.5k

The RLX Advance is $61k for comparison. I think it still holds true that you can save quite a bit if you go with an Acura. In this case, we are talking about $10k+ difference.
iforyou is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:45 PM
  #245  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
True on the features being available on e higher trim levels, but there are others who offer them at a lower price point.

Last year when I bought my CTS, I bought the Premium Collection AWD model which is the highest trim level short of moving up to the CTS-V.

The MSRP of my car was $52,000, I paid $48K

This included:
318 HP /275 ft lbs V6
AWD
Heated AND cooled seats
Navigation with NAV traffic
Rear back up camera AND sensors
Rainsensing wipers
Adaptive headlights
Keyless start
Remote start
Heated steering wheel
Wood steering wheel

There is more, but you get the idea. Now I will concede that the CTS doesn't offer the same level of customization than my RL did. For example the memory settings just save seats, mirrors and steering wheel settings as opposed to my RL that also saved preferences for HVAC, radio, and various other settings like lighting, but most people don't exploit or care that much about that level of customization.

Now keep in mind this was for a car that was nearing the end of it's model run. The RLX is a brand new vehicle that is more expensive than the competition that already offers those features.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:51 PM
  #246  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 198
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou View Post
The RLX Advance is $61k for comparison. I think it still holds true that you can save quite a bit if you go with an Acura. In this case, we are talking about $10k+ difference.
Interesting academic comparison, but it doesn't consider two important points. Leasing drives a large number of sales, especially in the luxury sport segment. BMW puts a lot of incentive money into leases. So it becomes not a $10k decision bit one of, do you want an Acura RLX for $650 a month or a BMW 535i for $680 a month. Most people take the bimmer.

The other point is that feature comparison for price does not always drive sales. If that we're the case, the Hyundai Genesis would win every time over any cars in the class.
noobie is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by noobie:
g37guy01 (04-10-2013), GoHawks (04-10-2013), JT4 (04-10-2013)
Old 04-10-2013, 01:27 PM
  #247  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by noobie View Post
Interesting academic comparison, but it doesn't consider two important points. Leasing drives a large number of sales, especially in the luxury sport segment. BMW puts a lot of incentive money into leases. So it becomes not a $10k decision bit one of, do you want an Acura RLX for $650 a month or a BMW 535i for $680 a month. Most people take the bimmer.

The other point is that feature comparison for price does not always drive sales. If that we're the case, the Hyundai Genesis would win every time over any cars in the class.
You're right. Most people buying a Tier 1 luxury brand are leasing and in the end it comes down to what your monthly payment is.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #248  
JT4
CTSV,Audi Q7&Allroad,TL
 
JT4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC / LI
Age: 53
Posts: 2,079
Received 594 Likes on 450 Posts
Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
OUCH! Although I did bold some items that I particularly agree with.

Inexcusable that a car costing $55K doesn't have back up sensors, heated steering wheel, fog lights. It goes back to a statement I made before, at least the 2nd gen RL offered value. At the time it would have cost you thousands more if you were to equip a 5 series with the same features that came with the RL. Now value isn't even a factor.

It's disappointing and sad. I still have a soft spot for Acura and I would really like to see them turn it around.

I REALLY like the new Accord every time I see it.
^^This is very true.

Last week in another thread I said that I just don’t see someone who is looking at an E550 4 Matic, 550ix or A6 cross shopping an SH-AWD RLX. The same can be said in regards to the FWD RLX vs. an E350, 535i/528i or A6.

Acura had a tough time trying to sell the 2G RL SH-AWD for around $50K. So what made them believe that they could take away the SH-AWD and offer a FWD RLX for the same price and get rave reviews.

It really makes me wonder what the heck is going on at Honda/Acura lately. Yes, the Accord has been a hit but their screw-up with the Civic a while back led to a fast revamp due to consumer and auto reviewer criticism of their cheapening of the car.

Then they screw-up by offering the ILX with a 150HP engine, and if you want the 201HP engine you have to get the 6MT, but you can't get the tech package. What the hell does one have to do with the other.

This is leading to another fast revamp as Acura is dropping the 2.0 150HP engine. Duh, anyone on this forum could have told Acura that they would not sell many 150HP ILX’s.

These are the kind of things that scare me when thinking about what Acura has is in store for its future vehicles. I really think Acura is out of touch.

Do car people even work at Acura anymore?
JT4 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
GoHawks (04-10-2013)
Old 04-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #249  
Registered Member
 
KeithL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 58
Posts: 5,005
Received 645 Likes on 380 Posts
Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
The automotive press heaps lavish praise on the new Accord. I do, too, it is an excellent car with good styling.

The RLX? The press obviously hates it. In fact, the hate seems almost as intense as, if not more intense than, the hate surrounding the 4G TL.

Consumer Reports not only didn't like, but didn't recommend, the 2G RL, but their review of the RL was not this bad. This is a pretty awful review, even for CR. I mean, just wow. .

So what is Honda's response going to be? Are they going to respond lightning fast like they did with the Civic? .
First I don't think Honda will or has to respond as the car is brand new, it sold well for only have 2 weeks and limited supply. Now if in 6+ months if they are selling 100-200 cars a month then yes the car is a flop and honestly I don't know what if anything they can do. They would have to make the styling more appealing and maybe change some handling characteristics (not sure how much of that can even be done on the FWD platform). And really iif the RLX sells like the RL did in the last few years then Acura needs to just give up on a halo flagship car and concentrate on making the TLX the best damn $50+K car and go back to offering a Type-S TLX that maybe has SH-SH-AWD that has 370HP and sporty styling. Then they would at least have RDX, MDX and TLX which if they can get the TLX back to 3G sales numbers those 3 vehicles will make them a lot of money.
KeithL is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by KeithL:
GoHawks (04-10-2013), neuronbob (04-10-2013)
Old 04-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #250  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Where the Sopranos and Saguaros are
Posts: 927
Received 63 Likes on 56 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou View Post
I think that is a fair poor review from Consumer Report, and no I'm not talking about the RLX, but the review itself. It seems like CR is trying really hard to make the RLX look worse than it really is.

First, how do they know the hybrid version will start at $60k plus? Is that official or not?

When they list the features that the RLX does not have, CR failed to mention that those features are all available in high trim(s). The way they wrote it would make readers think the RLX simply does not offer those features.

Reading Jeff's review of the RLX from TOV, he has found that the RLX is no BMW 5 series. But it's more than enough compared to cars such as GS and E Class in terms of handling.

Other mags commented the controls and found them very easy to operate, while CR found it difficult to use. May be CR testers are just too stupid?

After the 2012 Civic review from CR, I'd take CR reviews with a grain of salt. While the 2012 Civic is not up to the usual Honda standards, the comments made by CR of that Civic were simply untrue. I see the same thing again happening with the RLX.

At $55k, it really doesn't get you much with the German mid-size luxury sedans. Let's take a look at the 535i for instance.

Base price: $53.4k
Destination: $0.9k
Titanium Silver Metallic Paint: $550
Technology Pkg (i.e. Navi): $2800
Total: $57,645

At this price point, the BMW does not have heated steering wheel, heat seats (front and back), power shades, fog lights, back up camera (let alone back up sensors), cross-traffic alert. Heck, it doesn't even have LED headlights, collision warning, lane departure warning, premium hi-fi system, keyless entry, paddle shifters, etc.

Let's make things more comparable shall we?

Driver Assistance Package (back up cam): $1900
Driver Assistance Plus (lane depature warning): $700
COld weather package: $950
Premium Package (keyless entry): $1500
Paddle Shifters: $500
M Sport Package (required to get if you want paddle shifters): $2900
B&O Sound system: $4500
Total: $70.5k

The above is then slightly better equipped (i.e. rear heated seats) than the RLX Tech. But we are talking about a difference of $15k or so.

Why don't we also compare the RLX Advance with the 535i?

Shades: $575
Active Cruise Control: $2400
Total: $73.5k

The RLX Advance is $61k for comparison. I think it still holds true that you can save quite a bit if you go with an Acura. In this case, we are talking about $10k+ difference.
Bmw delivered 57k 5 series last year, Acura delivered under 1000 rl. Do you think people are buying bmws based on a feature for feature comparison?

It doesn't even matter what level they are. BMW sold 99k 3 series last year. Acura sold 33k TL. Do you really think people are doing paper comparisons between these vehicles?
g37guy01 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
JT4 (04-10-2013)
Old 04-10-2013, 02:14 PM
  #251  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: WISCONSIN
Age: 44
Posts: 1,299
Received 51 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by g37guy01 View Post
Bmw delivered 57k 5 series last year, Acura delivered under 1000 rl. Do you think people are buying bmws based on a feature for feature comparison?

It doesn't even matter what level they are. BMW sold 99k 3 series last year. Acura sold 33k TL. Do you really think people are doing paper comparisons between these vehicles?
I agree. In this segment, where leasing is most popular, few people will be comparing features by features. Like another poster stated, it will all come down to leasing payments....$650 for the RLX and $680 for the 535i. I am confident that the majority will have no problem paying an extra $30 for the badge!
silver3.5 is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 02:28 PM
  #252  
JT4
CTSV,Audi Q7&Allroad,TL
 
JT4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC / LI
Age: 53
Posts: 2,079
Received 594 Likes on 450 Posts
Originally Posted by silver3.5 View Post
I agree. In this segment, where leasing is most popular, few people will be comparing features by features. Like another poster stated, it will all come down to leasing payments....$650 for the RLX and $680 for the 535i. I am confident that the majority will have no problem paying an extra $30 for the badge!
- I couldn't agree more.
JT4 is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #253  
Registered Member
 
dwest1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: DC
Age: 65
Posts: 1,836
Received 87 Likes on 73 Posts
I for one am happy CU wrote what they did. I felt the same way when I saw and test drove the RLX. " Being neither luxurious nor sporty, the RLX fails to excite. And that's putting it mildly." Exactly the conclusion I came to from my test drive. Whats more interesting, was my test drive of the MZR. Got back in my TL and it felt 10 years old. After my RLX test drive, my 09TL drove BETTER and Handled better. I even liked my interior better. The RLX interior was just too sparse looking for me me. I like to feel I'm in a cockpit and not a house with no furniture. The TLX is my last hope. -
dwest1023 is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 03:34 PM
  #254  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SF/Colma CA
Posts: 1,965
Received 66 Likes on 45 Posts
Maybe Acura should stick to SUVs.
jhr3uva90 is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 03:46 PM
  #255  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Where the Sopranos and Saguaros are
Posts: 927
Received 63 Likes on 56 Posts
Originally Posted by silver3.5 View Post
I agree. In this segment, where leasing is most popular, few people will be comparing features by features. Like another poster stated, it will all come down to leasing payments....$650 for the RLX and $680 for the 535i. I am confident that the majority will have no problem paying an extra $30 for the badge!
For an extra 30 bucks, I too would rather buy the badge. The badge looks better and has an interior that I like better. Having extensively driven both the 550 and 535 I'm comfortable with the badge. Maybe other people have the same sentiments?
g37guy01 is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:24 PM
  #256  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,204
Received 1,260 Likes on 859 Posts
I am happy and sad that the reviews the RLX are getting. on one hand, it will hopefully slap the management at Acura right in the face and hopefully, wake them up! We need to get some of the old farts that stand on stage promoting these vehicles by people that have energy and enthusiasm. I don't want to sound harsh but the big cheese at Acura needs to wake up or else they will bring the demise of the Acura brand (I am not worried about Honda). And hopefully, the shuffle will take away the guy who is behind alot of Acura's current design language (starts with a M ) That being said, I am not sure why but car reviewers have gotten a strong dislike for Acura and I am not sure why. We all know that once you have a bad reputation, its hard to shake it off. I feel like Acura is the bullied kid on the school yard but at the same time, they seem partially responsible for the negative press. Enthusiasts keeps asking the brand to bring passion into the brand, and just like Mr Conrad delivering a speech, very little passion is to be found. As other have said, I am sad to see the sexy interiors go by the way side and now match their bland interior....Acura, listen, you got it backward. You were suppose to bring the sexy INTERIOR outwards!! The wheels are bland, the center stack now looks bland, the exterior styling has no dual exhausts or sexy lines. I hate to say this but I am starting to get tired of hoping and defending Acura. If they don't want to sell cars and design sexy cars, then why just not close shop rather than offending the buyers? dwest and keithL have similar views as mine and I feel their frustration, and as much as I love the Honda/Acura brand, if they can't deliver me a premium car with premium features in a sexy package, I'll either go elsewhere or just buy a Honda Accord instead. It seems to offer as much technology as many of the Acura brand at a much lower cost. Rant over.....but com'on Acura...surely you can do better?! YOur RDX is a hit, your NSX is sexy and the MDX has been a huge hit (this new one looks a bit conservative although I like the exterior). The ILX is a cute and well executed car on the outside but missed the mark on the powertrain...which is being fixed.

You need to stop releasing products and having to fix them within a year, you know, it would be to your advantage of listening to people and get it right the first time and get the buzz going on how great you are rather than how bad you guys are becoming!
weather is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:47 PM
  #257  
Registered Member
 
KeithL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 58
Posts: 5,005
Received 645 Likes on 380 Posts
This is classic over reaction by Acura. Power Plenum sent them into a tail spin and now they have over compensated the other way. Look at my sig, 6 TLs in 5 years I loved the 3G and its resale value was such I could trade out almost every year, unheard of in almost any car considering I always fully financed the cars for 5 years. I so want to come back, but have been spoiled with RWD and sexier styling inside an out. Sure some don't like the M styling, and true a TL is far better built, but to go back to bland I can;t do it. Every day I am tormented with the 2 voices in my head: Mr. Logic says get the AWD TL, it is a decent car, fun to drive and will give me reliable service. Mr. Passion keeps whispering do another M or CTS sure the Infiniti is not as well built, but it is sexy to look at inside and out and drives like a dream, and honestly has not given me any issues in 3 years and 39K miles. Right now Mr. Passion is winning.
KeithL is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:58 PM
  #258  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 32
Posts: 9,028
Received 572 Likes on 385 Posts
Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
True on the features being available on e higher trim levels, but there are others who offer them at a lower price point.

Last year when I bought my CTS, I bought the Premium Collection AWD model which is the highest trim level short of moving up to the CTS-V.

The MSRP of my car was $52,000, I paid $48K

This included:
318 HP /275 ft lbs V6
AWD
Heated AND cooled seats
Navigation with NAV traffic
Rear back up camera AND sensors
Rainsensing wipers
Adaptive headlights
Keyless start
Remote start
Heated steering wheel
Wood steering wheel

There is more, but you get the idea. Now I will concede that the CTS doesn't offer the same level of customization than my RL did. For example the memory settings just save seats, mirrors and steering wheel settings as opposed to my RL that also saved preferences for HVAC, radio, and various other settings like lighting, but most people don't exploit or care that much about that level of customization.

Now keep in mind this was for a car that was nearing the end of it's model run. The RLX is a brand new vehicle that is more expensive than the competition that already offers those features.
I think the current CTS competes closer with the TL. Both cars offer the size of 5-series while carrying a price that is significantly below the 5-series. The CTS is closer to the 5 series in price while the TL is right at 3 series level though. This is of course reflected by the feature sets too. It's the next gen CTS that will actually go head-to-head against the 5-series, E Class, A6, etc.

Originally Posted by noobie View Post
Interesting academic comparison, but it doesn't consider two important points. Leasing drives a large number of sales, especially in the luxury sport segment. BMW puts a lot of incentive money into leases. So it becomes not a $10k decision bit one of, do you want an Acura RLX for $650 a month or a BMW 535i for $680 a month. Most people take the bimmer.

The other point is that feature comparison for price does not always drive sales. If that we're the case, the Hyundai Genesis would win every time over any cars in the class.
Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
You're right. Most people buying a Tier 1 luxury brand are leasing and in the end it comes down to what your monthly payment is.
Originally Posted by g37guy01 View Post
Bmw delivered 57k 5 series last year, Acura delivered under 1000 rl. Do you think people are buying bmws based on a feature for feature comparison?

It doesn't even matter what level they are. BMW sold 99k 3 series last year. Acura sold 33k TL. Do you really think people are doing paper comparisons between these vehicles?
My post was not to discuss about leasing. I totally understand the whole leasing game with the European luxury cars. It's all about driving the newest Bimmer/MB/insert whatever luxury brand for a certain amount of money a month without worrying about reliability or depreciation.

Of course, car comparison is not about feature comparison. It's just that there are people questioning the value of the RLX. They are saying the previous gen RL offers so much while it was still several thousand dollars cheaper. So I just went to do a little comparison and showed that this remains the same for the RLX. That's all. I'm not claiming the RLX has way better lease deals, or people only shop for features in luxury cars.

Originally Posted by JT4 View Post
^^This is very true.

Last week in another thread I said that I just don’t see someone who is looking at an E550 4 Matic, 550ix or A6 cross shopping an SH-AWD RLX. The same can be said in regards to the FWD RLX vs. an E350, 535i/528i or A6.

Acura had a tough time trying to sell the 2G RL SH-AWD for around $50K. So what made them believe that they could take away the SH-AWD and offer a FWD RLX for the same price and get rave reviews.

It really makes me wonder what the heck is going on at Honda/Acura lately. Yes, the Accord has been a hit but their screw-up with the Civic a while back led to a fast revamp due to consumer and auto reviewer criticism of their cheapening of the car.

Then they screw-up by offering the ILX with a 150HP engine, and if you want the 201HP engine you have to get the 6MT, but you can't get the tech package. What the hell does one have to do with the other.

This is leading to another fast revamp as Acura is dropping the 2.0 150HP engine. Duh, anyone on this forum could have told Acura that they would not sell many 150HP ILX’s.

These are the kind of things that scare me when thinking about what Acura has is in store for its future vehicles. I really think Acura is out of touch.

Do car people even work at Acura anymore?
There wasn't much Honda could do with the ILX powertrain. It was designed to come out with Earth Dream technologies but the Earthquake delayed the development of ED. ILX was too late into its development and it could not be delayed. Hence it's stuck with R20+5AT.

The 2012 Civic was a mistake. They over-estimated the effect of the recession. Again, it was too late into its development. Before the 2012 Civic even came out, Honda already began working on the fix (i.e. 2013 Civic).

I think people need to dig further and look for reasons for some of these so-called stupid decisions. That way, one does not have to wonder why Honda makes "weird decisions."
iforyou is offline  
The following users liked this post:
jhr3uva90 (04-10-2013)
Old 04-10-2013, 05:00 PM
  #259  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 32
Posts: 9,028
Received 572 Likes on 385 Posts
Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
This is classic over reaction by Acura. Power Plenum sent them into a tail spin and now they have over compensated the other way. Look at my sig, 6 TLs in 5 years I loved the 3G and its resale value was such I could trade out almost every year, unheard of in almost any car considering I always fully financed the cars for 5 years. I so want to come back, but have been spoiled with RWD and sexier styling inside an out. Sure some don't like the M styling, and true a TL is far better built, but to go back to bland I can;t do it. Every day I am tormented with the 2 voices in my head: Mr. Logic says get the AWD TL, it is a decent car, fun to drive and will give me reliable service. Mr. Passion keeps whispering do another M or CTS sure the Infiniti is not as well built, but it is sexy to look at inside and out and drives like a dream, and honestly has not given me any issues in 3 years and 39K miles. Right now Mr. Passion is winning.
lol, this is the main issue with Honda. They are so conservative that as soon as something doesn't work, they over-react..............
iforyou is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 05:06 PM
  #260  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 198
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Mr Logic almost drove me to buy a RL a few years back, until the sales guys started playing games and saying they were selling well and blah, blah. I was just looking for a no nonsense quick invoice less incentives deal. Funny thing is I went back to the same dealership and bought a new MDX a month later (different sales guy). Mr. Logic drove me a Lexus. A fine, trouble free car with high resale. In the end I was bored.

Mr. Passion all the way now! Mr. Logic can come back for my wife's car
noobie is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 05:16 PM
  #261  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou View Post
I think the current CTS competes closer with the TL. Both cars offer the size of 5-series while carrying a price that is significantly below the 5-series. The CTS is closer to the 5 series in price while the TL is right at 3 series level though. This is of course reflected by the feature sets too. It's the next gen CTS that will actually go head-to-head against the 5-series, E Class, A6, etc.

You are correct that the current CTS was a bit of a 'Tweener. 5 series dimensions while priced closer to the 3 series. My point was that I got all those features at under $50K.

I also got a (marginally) more powerful engine. The RWD argument isn't a major factor for me since I got AWD. It is a 25/75 RWD biased AWD system, but admittedly I don't drive my car that hard that it is that much of an issue.

I am a former RL owner. I was waiting to pull the trigger on my CTS but was waiting to see what what the RLX was going to look like. Once I saw the initial pictures I made up my mind. My point is that is if I would have gotten a similarly contented RLX, I would have had to pay significantly more to get the same features and in my opinion the only advantage a $50K RLX has over my CTS coupe is space, and if that was a concern for me I wouldn't have bought the coupe, I would have gotten a sedan.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 06:05 PM
  #262  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 198
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou View Post
My post was not to discuss about leasing. I totally understand the whole leasing game with the European luxury cars. It's all about driving the newest Bimmer/MB/insert whatever luxury brand for a certain amount of money a month without worrying about reliability or depreciation.

Of course, car comparison is not about feature comparison. It's just that there are people questioning the value of the RLX. They are saying the previous gen RL offers so much while it was still several thousand dollars cheaper. So I just went to do a little comparison and showed that this remains the same for the RLX. That's all. I'm not claiming the RLX has way better lease deals, or people only shop for features in luxury cars.
Then I still don't get your point. You're saying the RLX is a good value, but that doesn't drive sales. Or the part I bolded, the RLX is just as good a value as the previous RL and ergo it will be the same sales failure?
noobie is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 07:00 PM
  #263  
Registered Member
 
KeithL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 58
Posts: 5,005
Received 645 Likes on 380 Posts
Originally Posted by noobie View Post
Then I still don't get your point. You're saying the RLX is a good value, but that doesn't drive sales. Or the part I bolded, the RLX is just as good a value as the previous RL and ergo it will be the same sales failure?
Good value alone is not going to move that many $60K+ cars, that said it will drive some sales. Hyundai is in similar problem with Equus and twice as much because that $60K car is sitting next to an Elantra in a Hyundai dealership.
KeithL is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:31 PM
  #264  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,473
Received 31 Likes on 27 Posts
Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
Well you are in the minority. No one else holds the same opinion and it seems pretty consistent. I predict it won't sell.
Sell and Lease are two different thing. Lease is like rental car. It will sell for those who understand it for its reliabiliy, refinement, space, safety and more uniqe shape than so common BMW/MB. now even a loaded 4cylinder 328 cost $50k.

see CR Lexus ES review. this car sell tons.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...view/index.htm
The new ES still provides a comfy, quiet interior, gets good fuel economy, and is likely to be very reliable. But the car’s cosseting, easygoing nature has been dialed back, with a less plush ride, cuts in interior refinement, and more complicated controls. And despite Lexus’ claims of injecting more sportiness into the ES, it’s no more agile or fun to drive.

We tested two versions: the ES 350, with a 3.5-liter V6 engine, and the ES 300h, the model’s first hybrid. Both drivetrains perform well. The V6 is slick and powerful and returns a good 25 mpg overall. The hybrid delivers ample zip, while squeezing out an excellent 36 mpg overall and 44 on the highway.

Although the ES still rides well, it’s no longer luxury-car plush, feeling instead like a generic family sedan. It has adequate room inside, but it’s not particularly spacious for the class. At first glance, the cabin furnishings look really good. But a closer inspection reveals some cheaper materials than in the past and a general impression of cost-cutting. Lexus has also done away with the simple touch-screen controls of the previous ES, instead using more complicated systems that can make it more difficult to perform common functions
SSFTSX is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:36 PM
  #265  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,473
Received 31 Likes on 27 Posts
Originally Posted by noobie View Post
Interesting academic comparison, but it doesn't consider two important points. Leasing drives a large number of sales, especially in the luxury sport segment. BMW puts a lot of incentive money into leases. So it becomes not a $10k decision bit one of, do you want an Acura RLX for $650 a month or a BMW 535i for $680 a month. Most people take the bimmer.

The other point is that feature comparison for price does not always drive sales. If that we're the case, the Hyundai Genesis would win every time over any cars in the class.
Hyundai Geneis does not have quality feel, safety and refinment of Acura.

see this CTS 3.6 $55k example. This car is slower than Honda Accord despite CTS 3.6 having summer performance tires. Put the same summer performance tires on RLX and you will see mark difference in performance/handling.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review
SSFTSX is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:17 PM
  #266  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX View Post
Hyundai Geneis does not have quality feel, safety and refinment of Acura.

see this CTS 3.6 $55k example. This car is slower than Honda Accord despite CTS 3.6 having summer performance tires. Put the same summer performance tires on RLX and you will see mark difference in performance/handling.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review
The previous generation Accord had a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds. The CTS is around 6.1 and it is much heavier than the Accord.

The new Accord is at 5.7 seconds, but we have yet to see what the new CTS will do. The horsepower is unchanged, but it's around 500lbs lighter.

.....and again, summer tires will help handling, but it's not going to make a significant difference in 0-60 times.

As for safety ratings, the Genesis has received the highest safety ratings, the same as the previous generation RL. The new RLX has not been crash tested yet.

Last edited by GoHawks; 04-10-2013 at 10:21 PM.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #267  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,473
Received 31 Likes on 27 Posts
Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
The previous generation Accord had a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds. The CTS is around 6.1 and it is much heavier than the Accord.

The new Accord is at 5.7 seconds, but we have yet to see what the new CTS will do. The horsepower is unchanged, but it's around 500lbs lighter.

.....and again, summer tires will help handling, but it's not going to make a significant difference in 0-60 times.

As for safety ratings, the Genesis has received the highest safety ratings, the same as the previous generation RL. The new RLX has not been crash tested yet.
Previous Accord was 5speed Auto. Current Accord lacks DI engine so slight weight difference wont matter. It is not just 0-60 timing that Accord excel CTS but alos gap widens at higher top speeds.

Genesis is not TSP+ like Accord/TL in safety. RLX is expected to get that.
SSFTSX is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:07 PM
  #268  
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 2,196
Received 94 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX View Post
Previous Accord was 5speed Auto. Current Accord lacks DI engine so slight weight difference wont matter. It is not just 0-60 timing that Accord excel CTS but alos gap widens at higher top speeds.

Genesis is not TSP+ like Accord/TL in safety. RLX is expected to get that.
Yeah right, weight doesn't matter. I'll tell my doctor that next time I go in for a checkup and I step on the scale.
GoHawks is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:08 PM
  #269  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Honestly, consumer report's review of the rlx is completely unjustified. It wreaks havoc on those that buy the car. The car still represents good value and the car does not compete with the Lexus Es. The Es, while also forward wheel drive, does not have any handling aspirations as the rlx. The rlx boasts a 310hp engine (compared to 268) and at least the rlx is able to eliminate torque steer with its precision all wheel steer. IMO, Honda spent a lot of money on this car and these recent reviews go too far. The initials reviews weren't bad and completely biased against Acura however.
01luigi is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:40 AM
  #270  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,473
Received 31 Likes on 27 Posts
I know RLX is far superior vehicle to Lexus ES. which is even inferior to Accord in all performance parameters.
I have no doubt RLX is faster than Accord in mid range and top end.

Avalon/ES are twins.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/2013-toy...183000176.html
2013 Toyota Avalon offers a luxurious cabin, but not a Lexus ride

Thus far, we have slightly mixed feelings about the success of this approach. We're currently testing two Limited models, a V6 and a hybrid. Both priced over $40,000. By now, we've logged hundreds of miles and our impressions are still solidifying, as the sedans begin their formal testing.

While trying to make the car sportier to drive, Toyota didn't get the balance quite right. The steering is no longer super light, nor the ride floaty. But the handling isn't good enough that you'd want to hustle the car down twisty roads. Worse yet, the ride is harsh and abrupt with the 18-inch wheels. We favor the 17-inchers on our hybrid model. Dynamically, the Avalon is sending mixed signals.
SSFTSX is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 01:55 AM
  #271  
Registered Member
 
gbriank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 43
Posts: 847
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Here's hoping Honda steps in for the 2015 model adding in those items (backup camera, heated steering wheel, etc). For the most part, I like the new RLX. The interior is a vast improvement over the second generation model. Bigger back seat, updated luxury appointments (dash, seats) and reducing the sea of buttons by using the second screen (although, I do like hard keys...just not this many). Where Honda has flopped? Not offering the AWD system immediately. Most folks reviewing this car are basing the whole test driving experience on just a single set-up of this vehicle. A total shame. The new electric drive AWD may be a huge game changer in this segment, so I say don't throw it under the bus yet. Lots of reviewers complain that the design is non-descript and that folks in "witness protection" should consider this vehicle. Rubbish, I say. In the time I had my RL, I had NO tickets. Why? Well, it wasn't due to me not speeding but rather that the design didn't garner any unwanted attention. A plus in my book.

My hope is that once Acura brings out the last component of this vehicle, it will show its true nature as a reliable, frugal and exciting riding vehicle that holds its value excellently and creates a following similar to the second gen model.
gbriank is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 04:13 AM
  #272  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,966
Received 175 Likes on 126 Posts
I have had numerous thoughts during my reading of the RLX forums and reviews and subsequently took a test drive. The following are some of my opinions:

Having the RLX made in the same factory as the TL will do nothing to enhance its image or quality. The thoughts of a Japanese made car is an advantage of Acuras heritage that it is wise that they take advantage of.

If you are going to compare luxury cars then use the Advance model. One of the reasons that the RL reviews were so good is that in 05 there was only one model and it was fully loaded so no reviewers complained that it didn't have some features.

A complaint of some Acuras was the center stack having too many buttons. They fixed that and now people complain that it is too bland.

The LED headlights negate the requirement of fog lights plus the cost and weight savings is a good idea.

Hidden exhaust pipes is also a trend and the fact that Acura is one of the leaders in this aspect they should not be blasted for it. In 3 years time when all of the competition have hidden pipes and if Acura didn't have them then you would be complaining about them not having hidden pipes.

The Advance is expensive but the technology and features is right up there with the best of them, it works great and will probably be reliable. That is more than you can say about some of the German (and American) cars mentioned in this thread.

I prefer a car that not only is under the radar but is not also on every street corner. I could buy a 5 series but they are in the catagory of "common" and that's not where I want to be.

There are some good and bad implementations in the RLX:
The dual lens folding mirrors are very good.
The Lane Keep is great as is the CMBS, ACC etc. Unfortunately, it is not that new in fact, the 2nd gen Legend had it.
I like the idea that LKAS reminds you to indicate if you change a lane (a great idea for the a$$holes that never indicate).
The turn signal lever should auto signal 3 times with a flick of the stalk in the intended direction. (A very common feature with cars in the EU.)
The RLX does not have Amber turn signals at the rear. An admission by Acura that they really don't care about safety.
I do not like touch screens - not only do you have to take you eye off of the road but you also have to take you hand off of the steering wheel. Every time you go over a bump the your finger hits the wrong button. Touch screens only work if you are holding an Ipad in your lap, they have no place in a car that is being driven on the pavement.
310 HP is minimal for 3.5 liters these days. PAWS thould be at least 360 and SH-SHAWD should be at least 420.
The RLX should have the magnetic shocks from the MDX with at least 3 settings.

When I returned from my test drive my wife was surprised that I didn't buy it and to be honest, it was a possibility when I went but I too was underwhelmed. When I bought my RL it was a giant step in features, technology, quality and performance. I came away thinking that the only major change in me trading an RL for an RLX would be that I would be $61K in the hole. The best toy on the car is the LKAS but that should have been in the RL in 05.
db22 is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:48 AM
  #273  
037
Registered Member
 
037's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 4,258
Received 87 Likes on 79 Posts
Post

Originally Posted by SSFTSX View Post
Hyundai Geneis does not have quality feel, safety and refinment of Acura.
I assume this is based on your extensive experience in the auto industry as you obviously don't drive one.

I'm coming from a 2009 CMBS RL (read fully loaded for those who don't own one) into a 2012 tech/premium Genesis (read much more loaded than the RL with backup and front sensors, mid mounted LCD screen between speedometer and tach, heated rear seats, 333hp + 8 speed tranny, and did I mention it's rated 18/28 mpg?)

Oh yeah, the sticker is $44,000 and you can buy one for $39,000 without much hassle.

Now as far as quality feel, the only thing my 2009 RL had on my Genny is the roof liner, it was nice and soft. The 55k Tech RLX has equally crappy liner.

Genesis has been rated a top safety pick so I don't know where you're getting your information from.

I think you should stop commenting on cars you've never owned or even drove, thanks.
037 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
GoHawks (04-11-2013)
Old 04-11-2013, 06:53 AM
  #274  
Registered Member
 
KeithL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 58
Posts: 5,005
Received 645 Likes on 380 Posts
^^^^
While I actually had a down payment on a Genesis a few years ago that fell apart when dealer damaged the car. I will say they are IMO a notch behind Acura. I did not feel the switches and steering wheel felt up to par. All the controls looked and felt like they were out of an Elantra. That said I do like the car and am eager to see the 14 Genesis as it should really up the game and be a much more compelling car.
KeithL is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 07:11 AM
  #275  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Where the Sopranos and Saguaros are
Posts: 927
Received 63 Likes on 56 Posts
Originally Posted by 01luigi View Post
Honestly, consumer report's review of the rlx is completely unjustified. It wreaks havoc on those that buy the car. The car still represents good value and the car does not compete with the Lexus Es. The Es, while also forward wheel drive, does not have any handling aspirations as the rlx. The rlx boasts a 310hp engine (compared to 268) and at least the rlx is able to eliminate torque steer with its precision all wheel steer. IMO, Honda spent a lot of money on this car and these recent reviews go too far. The initials reviews weren't bad and completely biased against Acura however.
It only wreaks havoc on those who buy solely via magazine without doing test drives or even knowing anything about the car. I know no one who does that even wealthier friends. Yet this is Internet land and I'm sure someone's dads uncles brothers, sisters ex doctors gf knows of some one who did that.

LEDs sells a boat load of es, and while it the rlx doesn't compare, according to badge cars don't compare, Acura has to figure out why people buy supposedly "inferior" cars. Hint:"buying the badge" is the first clue.
g37guy01 is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 07:34 AM
  #276  
037
Registered Member
 
037's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 4,258
Received 87 Likes on 79 Posts
Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
^^^^
While I actually had a down payment on a Genesis a few years ago that fell apart when dealer damaged the car. I will say they are IMO a notch behind Acura. I did not feel the switches and steering wheel felt up to par. All the controls looked and felt like they were out of an Elantra. That said I do like the car and am eager to see the 14 Genesis as it should really up the game and be a much more compelling car.
have never had the pleasure of sitting in an Elantra but I did get a lot of front seat time in the 2013 Sonata Turbo tech and I can say that the switches definitely do look very familiar, but the tech is not in the same class.

For example, the backup camera in the Sonata, you can hardly tell any colors apart and at night you can barely see anything.

On the Genesis the colors are accurate and I feel like it almost has night vision as I see clearly (though grain is everywhere) with minimal light.

Backup camera offers much better rear view visibility vs the 09 RL (not sure if you guys remember how I installed reverse HID lights to help that one).

As far as switches/buttons and steering wheel feel, I don't dwell too much there because as humans we can adopt to anything with time. I feel that the Genesis is giving me a much better experience vs the RL minus the brake feel and that's mostly due to the SS brake lines I had on my RL along with slotted rotors and better brake pads. That said, Genesis stops much faster than the RL ever dreamed of and they are both 4,000lb cars.
037 is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:32 AM
  #277  
JT4
CTSV,Audi Q7&Allroad,TL
 
JT4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC / LI
Age: 53
Posts: 2,079
Received 594 Likes on 450 Posts
Originally Posted by JT4 View Post


It really makes me wonder what the heck is going on at Honda/Acura lately. Yes, the Accord has been a hit but their screw-up with the Civic a while back led to a fast revamp due to consumer and auto reviewer criticism of their cheapening of the car.

Then they screw-up by offering the ILX with a 150HP engine, and if you want the 201HP engine you have to get the 6MT, but you can't get the tech package. What the hell does one have to do with the other.

This is leading to another fast revamp as Acura is dropping the 2.0 150HP engine. Duh, anyone on this forum could have told Acura that they would not sell many 150HP ILX’s.

These are the kind of things that scare me when thinking about what Acura has is in store for its future vehicles. I really think Acura is out of touch.

Do car people even work at Acura anymore?
Originally Posted by iforyou View Post
There wasn't much Honda could do with the ILX powertrain. It was designed to come out with Earth Dream technologies but the Earthquake delayed the development of ED. ILX was too late into its development and it could not be delayed. Hence it's stuck with R20+5AT.

The 2012 Civic was a mistake. They over-estimated the effect of the recession. Again, it was too late into its development. Before the 2012 Civic even came out, Honda already began working on the fix (i.e. 2013 Civic).

I think people need to dig further and look for reasons for some of these so-called stupid decisions. That way, one does not have to wonder why Honda makes "weird decisions."
No doubt the earthquake in 2011 was a terrible tragedy for the people of Japan, and my heart goes out to everyone affected.

Since you brought up the earthquake I guess the decision not to offer the tech pack in an ILX with a 6MT was also due to the earthquake and not some “weird marketing decision”.


I guess the fact that you can’t get a 6MT TL with the Advance package is not a “weird decision” by Acura but caused by the earthquake.

Even though this was years earlier, should we also blame Acura’s decision to go with the power plenum front end on the earthquake? This decision directly affected their sales because the “beak” nose offended the masses. Even true Acura loyalists walked away and went elsewhere.

Again, might as well blame the earthquake, because this couldn’t possibly be another “weird decision” by Acura.

Last edited by JT4; 04-11-2013 at 10:43 AM.
JT4 is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:18 PM
  #278  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 32
Posts: 9,028
Received 572 Likes on 385 Posts
Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
You are correct that the current CTS was a bit of a 'Tweener. 5 series dimensions while priced closer to the 3 series. My point was that I got all those features at under $50K.

I also got a (marginally) more powerful engine. The RWD argument isn't a major factor for me since I got AWD. It is a 25/75 RWD biased AWD system, but admittedly I don't drive my car that hard that it is that much of an issue.

I am a former RL owner. I was waiting to pull the trigger on my CTS but was waiting to see what what the RLX was going to look like. Once I saw the initial pictures I made up my mind. My point is that is if I would have gotten a similarly contented RLX, I would have had to pay significantly more to get the same features and in my opinion the only advantage a $50K RLX has over my CTS coupe is space, and if that was a concern for me I wouldn't have bought the coupe, I would have gotten a sedan.
For sure, as mentioned, the CTS is kind of similar to the TL in the market. The same argument can pretty much made with the current TL. The RL or RLX is up half a class IMO and that's probably why its pricing is different than that of a TL or CTS.

Originally Posted by noobie View Post
Then I still don't get your point. You're saying the RLX is a good value, but that doesn't drive sales. Or the part I bolded, the RLX is just as good a value as the previous RL and ergo it will be the same sales failure?
There were posts saying that for the 2G RL, it's several thousand dollars cheaper than an equivalent European model. And that for the new RLX, that's no longer the case. My post is simply to show that the new RLX indeed still cheaper by quite a bit. This is not to say the RLX will be a sales success.

Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
The previous generation Accord had a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds. The CTS is around 6.1 and it is much heavier than the Accord.

The new Accord is at 5.7 seconds, but we have yet to see what the new CTS will do. The horsepower is unchanged, but it's around 500lbs lighter.

.....and again, summer tires will help handling, but it's not going to make a significant difference in 0-60 times.

As for safety ratings, the Genesis has received the highest safety ratings, the same as the previous generation RL. The new RLX has not been crash tested yet.
GM published the weight of the new CTS 2.0T RWD at 3616lb for the 6AT. Manual tranny is not offered at all. A CTS 3.6 AWD would probably be closer to 4000lb.

I had the pleasure to test drive a new Accord V6 Touring a few months ago. That thing would light up the tires even at half throttle screaming for more traction. I'd imagine some nicer summer performance tires would help.

Originally Posted by gbriank View Post
Here's hoping Honda steps in for the 2015 model adding in those items (backup camera, heated steering wheel, etc). For the most part, I like the new RLX. The interior is a vast improvement over the second generation model. Bigger back seat, updated luxury appointments (dash, seats) and reducing the sea of buttons by using the second screen (although, I do like hard keys...just not this many). Where Honda has flopped? Not offering the AWD system immediately. Most folks reviewing this car are basing the whole test driving experience on just a single set-up of this vehicle. A total shame. The new electric drive AWD may be a huge game changer in this segment, so I say don't throw it under the bus yet. Lots of reviewers complain that the design is non-descript and that folks in "witness protection" should consider this vehicle. Rubbish, I say. In the time I had my RL, I had NO tickets. Why? Well, it wasn't due to me not speeding but rather that the design didn't garner any unwanted attention. A plus in my book.

My hope is that once Acura brings out the last component of this vehicle, it will show its true nature as a reliable, frugal and exciting riding vehicle that holds its value excellently and creates a following similar to the second gen model.
I think those feature are indeed available in higher trims. We know having individual options is a no go, but perhaps Acura should consider shuffling the features around between the different trims?

Originally Posted by JT4 View Post
No doubt the earthquake in 2011 was a terrible tragedy for the people of Japan, and my heart goes out to everyone affected.

Since you brought up the earthquake I guess the decision not to offer the tech pack in an ILX with a 6MT was also due to the earthquake and not some “weird marketing decision”.


I guess the fact that you can’t get a 6MT TL with the Advance package is not a “weird decision” by Acura but caused by the earthquake.

Even though this was years earlier, should we also blame Acura’s decision to go with the power plenum front end on the earthquake? This decision directly affected their sales because the “beak” nose offended the masses. Even true Acura loyalists walked away and went elsewhere.

Again, might as well blame the earthquake, because this couldn’t possibly be another “weird decision” by Acura.
As far as I know, for the ILX the main consequence of the earthquake is the EarthDream powertrain. I doubt that not offering 6MT with Tech is simply a business decision. It's just like you can't get a 6MT on a Buick Verano unless you buy the turbo version.

As for no 6MT for Tech pack, I think we are lucky that Acura is even offering a 6MT for the TL. You can't get no manual on a Cadillac CTS, IS350, or a base G37, for instance.

I think power plenum happened before the earthquake, no? How could the earthquake affect it?
iforyou is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 02:13 PM
  #279  
Registered Member
 
dwest1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: DC
Age: 65
Posts: 1,836
Received 87 Likes on 73 Posts
Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
^^^^
While I actually had a down payment on a Genesis a few years ago that fell apart when dealer damaged the car. I will say they are IMO a notch behind Acura. I did not feel the switches and steering wheel felt up to par. All the controls looked and felt like they were out of an Elantra. That said I do like the car and am eager to see the 14 Genesis as it should really up the game and be a much more compelling car.
I agree. While I liked the Genisis, ride and looks, I too notice that the buttons where not as well made as Acura. IMO, that is what Hyundai does to keep prices down. They cheap out on things they think won't matter and what you cannot see. Look at the wiring to the brake lights compared to honda or Acura. Not saying Hyundai is not a good car, its just how they do things.
dwest1023 is offline  
Old 04-11-2013, 02:16 PM
  #280  
Registered Member
 
dwest1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: DC
Age: 65
Posts: 1,836
Received 87 Likes on 73 Posts
Originally Posted by db22 View Post
I have had numerous thoughts during my reading of the RLX forums and reviews and subsequently took a test drive. The following are some of my opinions:

Having the RLX made in the same factory as the TL will do nothing to enhance its image or quality. The thoughts of a Japanese made car is an advantage of Acuras heritage that it is wise that they take advantage of.

If you are going to compare luxury cars then use the Advance model. One of the reasons that the RL reviews were so good is that in 05 there was only one model and it was fully loaded so no reviewers complained that it didn't have some features.

A complaint of some Acuras was the center stack having too many buttons. They fixed that and now people complain that it is too bland.

The LED headlights negate the requirement of fog lights plus the cost and weight savings is a good idea.

Hidden exhaust pipes is also a trend and the fact that Acura is one of the leaders in this aspect they should not be blasted for it. In 3 years time when all of the competition have hidden pipes and if Acura didn't have them then you would be complaining about them not having hidden pipes.

The Advance is expensive but the technology and features is right up there with the best of them, it works great and will probably be reliable. That is more than you can say about some of the German (and American) cars mentioned in this thread.

I prefer a car that not only is under the radar but is not also on every street corner. I could buy a 5 series but they are in the catagory of "common" and that's not where I want to be.

There are some good and bad implementations in the RLX:
The dual lens folding mirrors are very good.
The Lane Keep is great as is the CMBS, ACC etc. Unfortunately, it is not that new in fact, the 2nd gen Legend had it.
I like the idea that LKAS reminds you to indicate if you change a lane (a great idea for the a$$holes that never indicate).
The turn signal lever should auto signal 3 times with a flick of the stalk in the intended direction. (A very common feature with cars in the EU.)
The RLX does not have Amber turn signals at the rear. An admission by Acura that they really don't care about safety.
I do not like touch screens - not only do you have to take you eye off of the road but you also have to take you hand off of the steering wheel. Every time you go over a bump the your finger hits the wrong button. Touch screens only work if you are holding an Ipad in your lap, they have no place in a car that is being driven on the pavement.
310 HP is minimal for 3.5 liters these days. PAWS thould be at least 360 and SH-SHAWD should be at least 420.
The RLX should have the magnetic shocks from the MDX with at least 3 settings.

When I returned from my test drive my wife was surprised that I didn't buy it and to be honest, it was a possibility when I went but I too was underwhelmed. When I bought my RL it was a giant step in features, technology, quality and performance. I came away thinking that the only major change in me trading an RL for an RLX would be that I would be $61K in the hole. The best toy on the car is the LKAS but that should have been in the RL in 05.
What car that the RLX competes does not have dual exhaust? To me its inexcusable in a car that is suppose to be sport luxury.
dwest1023 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Acura RLX Reviews (Sport Hybrid reviews pg 21)


Contact Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.