TSX69

Sharing some rumor gossip from TOV. RolledANSX seems to legitimately have insider info altho not always 100% correct mind you.

It looks like the RLX was the 1st fix for the new Acura Planning Group.

It could be in the process of an early MMC like the Civic went thru.

1)Most likely get the new lighter SH-AWD with 9HP and Sport Hybrid might get more gears to improve MPG.

2)chassis lighten for better MPG

3)exterior look update

4)interior options update

I hope this is like the Civic & the MMC comes in the 2nd year - 2015. Yes, a 7 speed DCT in the hybrid would look low since the TLX is getting 8 - I also thought that the mere +1 in the hybrid's hwy mileage was a bit of a let down. The 9 speed SH-AWD seems like a nice update as well.

Please let the exterior get some more pizzazz like chrome door handles & the interior could use some more luxury like heated steering wheel, extended thigh support, heated/cooled cup holders, etc etc

I hope this is true.

KeithL

I question much of that. An exterior update would likely only be front and rear fascias. Lighten the chassis makes little sense as that probably infers major design and component changes. Not sure what other options they can offer other than apps and hopefully better navi with google search. Maybe make HUD standard in Tech and above?

neuronbob

I saw this on TOV too. Looks like you beat me to it again, TSX69! I hope hope hope this is true. That would be worth the wait if done right.

TampaRLX-SH

2009 2nd Gen RL MMC ('Power Phlegm').....SWING!.....and a miss.

2014 RLX (PAWS & SH) rollout......SWING!....and a miss.

Do you think Acura is aware of the count?

2011TL

TSX69,

RolledaNsx just posted this response to your question:

I think there will not be a MY2015 or a very short run and the fixes will be for MY2016.Also I think the RLX will have a very short life!I wouldn't be surprised their is a new halo sedan at Acura MY2018 or sooner.

KeithL

How many times are they going to attempt this? Maybe they do the Mazda route and abandon the need for the top rung car and concentrate on what they can execute well on.

Edward'TLS

Without lowering the hefty price tags, the upcoming MMC RLX is still not going anywhere.

George Knighton

The next generation of AcuraLink is supposedly very much improved, and there's a chance of Siri Hands Free that would allow us to use the talk button instead of holding the button down on your iPhone.

I don't think they'll integrate Google, but there's a chance that at some point you'll have the option to have your smartphone's interface (either iPhone or Android) become the car's interface.

hadokenuh

Does the SH-AWD technically replace the PAWS? Will there be any benefit of having both or just redundant?

Maybe Acura still keeps the FWD base, then SH-AWD, and SH-SH-AWD as top of the line model?

BDoggPrelude

It should go without saying but...Acura might want to focus on actually DELIVERING the hybrid model before they try to improve on it. Just a thought.

Even if all this comes next year, I fear it may be too little too late for the RLX. It should have had SH-AWD as an option from the beginning, (probably should have been standard at this level). It's amazing how long it took Acura to develop this underwhelming car. RLX owners can say all they want but if you compare the sales of the 2014 RLX to the 2005 RL, it's not even close. The 2G RL was probably the most innovative vehicle Honda/Acura released since the early 90's. The RLX is, well...pretty much a plus sized Honda Accord with a slightly fancier package at double the sticker price.

neuronbob

^^^^
Disagree with some of this. A big criticism of the 2G RL was that not everyone wanted SH-AWD and a base FWD model would have been nice. There is a market for such.

The problem is that instead of delivering the SH-RLX and PAWS RLX at the same time, we have this clusterfsck in which we have been teased for SH release three times in the last 18 months and now, silence on the SH front and essential abandonment of the PAWS, with no marketing whatsoever. It's quite possible that only we on this website and a smattering of other long term Acura sedan customers is even aware of the RLX at this point.

To be honest, if Acura went the Infiniti route and simply dropped the RLX/top sedan altogether and made the TLX the top sedan, it is quite possible that no one in the real world would notice at all. And we, the very few customers who would actually purchase such a beast, will move on elsewhere. In my case, I'd be either moving downmarket or looking closer at Audi for luxury AWD, or at the Tesla model S for a tech-laden bleeding edge car.

This mess is so sad for Axura. I thought Lincoln was dead but they are actually making a run of it. I thought Acura was making a run for it but the sedan lineup is moribund and now gasping for life because of amateurish (from my outside looking in perspective--who knows what Acura is actually thinking at this point?) rollouts.

KeithL

I understand Apple has a large share in the US, but ignoring online google search is a mistake. I have nothing against Apple (I have an iPad) but my phones are always Android so Siri means nothing to me. Once you try a car with online Google search it is hard to move away. I love looking stuff up in my A6.

KeithL

Partially true, yes noone would notice. 2 problems are that first, Infiniti is planning on relaunching a new high end halo sedan at some point Also the M35/M45 grew in size and power to the M37/M56 which allowed it to still compete for some of those top end sedan sales. For Acura to have dropped the RL/RLX they should have kept the TL at the 4G size and then kept the TSX then at least they would have had a 3 sedan lineup and may have been able to pull that off. If they dropped the RLX now they become the Mazda model, small and mid-sized car with nothing to step up into. That is fine, but the TLX is just not enough to be the top car of a luxury brand.

Of course Acura would probably save a tone of money even with the lose top end sales since the RLX is barely selling and they probably spent billions designing it.

db22

Your assumption that Acura is thinking maybe incorrect.

Acura is in deep do do:

ILX - an over priced Civic.
RDX - not a bad ute.
MDX - a complete disaster in execution.
RLX - its only attribute, maybe, is that it is reliable but it will never be a contender.
TLX - It remains to be seen but this thing is going to have to support the whole product line or Acura will be dissolved and Honda will pick up the pieces.

George Knighton

Why does Google exist? How did they first start making money?

Why did Honda and Acura refuse to implement any kind of native in-car connectivity with a cellular emergency service for so long?

TampaRLX-SH

Of course this is rumor at this point. But as I speculated a month or so ago, the activity (or inactivity) from Acura smells of product re-shuffling.

What surprises me is my reaction to this rumor (if true) and I see similar tone from some AZ regulars. My first reaction was an eye roll and irritation. After sleeping on it these are, what I believe , reasons for that reaction:

1) If something is released from AHC to support this rumor from Honda / Acura why would I believe it? The track record on the RLX rollout has as much credibility as the lost IRS emails. Is that supposed to keep me on the line another decade?

2) The collective issues with Acura in just the last year or so make me question the brand. Botched rollouts, knee jerk changes in product direction, false rollout information, eye raising issues in quality, management shuffles, cheaper assembly execution (with corresponding results), denial of issues from consumers, restricted inventory and still the eye sting of the power phlegm arrogance.

3) Based on #2, is Acura worthy of premium brand perception? I anticipate my next vehicle to be in the $55k-70K range. Am I willing to gamble that with Acura? Never before did I feel Acura was a gamble with my money. But core components of Honda engineering are new here, DI engines, new transmissions, questionable new tech being fully vetted, suspension issues throughout the models and dropping double wishbone from many models. And the SH RLX is the pinnacle of ALL of these attributes and concerns.

4) Has Acura now become, in my mind, unreliable, over priced and unproven with products? For the price point I am shopping I have grown hesitant.

I am very surprised with myself. I understand and respect the rumored changes. But my patience grows weary. That lust, passion and respect for Acura first struck me with the original Acura Legend is now gone. Maybe I have grown old or become too rational / analytical but my $$$ is not test bed funding.

Have I reached my tipping point?

Acura_Dude

You're off about the RDX/MDX. Those two are selling in great numbers. When the 3G MDX came out there was a wait to get the one you wanted for awhile and they were selling at MSRP. IMO the RDX and MDX are the one's that's making Acura money.

Mike_TX

A MMC after only one year? I don't see that happening.

As for the RLX, I just don't understand - and never have - why it isn't a better seller.

I had a 2006 RL, and it was honestly one of the best cars I've owned. But it sold like crap. People just didn't know what a great car it was because they never gave it a chance.

My 2014 RLX is a helluva nice car - lots of features, super nice interior, good exterior styling, enough power, and handling better than lots of cars costing tons more. But it ain't selling.

Acura's pricing strategy is part of the problem, I think. I believe they price the RLX in the premium category to try and position it as luxury goods. But then behind the scenes they slash the price. That means that many shoppers never get past the Monroney sticker, and mostly "insiders" end up buying them (well below sticker).

In the meantime, the RLX is like that Rodney Daingerfield - it don't get no respect.

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neuronbob

There is precedent, the 2012 Honda Civic mini disaster. The 2013 Civic was significantly changed as a result of tepid press.

Everything else I agree with. The PAWS RLX is a fabulous car that no one will look at other than those of us who know the secret handshake.

Starting to wonder whether Old GM transferred some of their management to Acura, or if space aliens took the team responsible for the 3G TL.

db22

I didn't say that they weren't selling in great numbers, I stated that the RDX is not a bad ute and the MDX is a complete disaster in execution.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

If the MDX is a complete disaster in execution, but still manages to fly out of the dealership in record numbers and still holds up to be the top selling Acura vehicle, then the MDX must be a marvel.

ReWritable

This is nonsense MDX a "complete disaster in execution"? I stopped reading your post right there. No more credibility or worth my time reading your posts. Sorry

TampaRLX-SH

You are entitled to your opinion,,,, as is db22.

However it perplexes me that it is not worth your time to read his opinion but it is worth your time to complain about it?

Convictions and priorities are very different matters.

Colin

I would love to see them dump mechanical SH-AWD entirely. It has had 10+ years to change the image of Acura from a FWD only brand and move the brand 'status' upward. As people are fond of pointing out on AZ, Acura is a "total failure" in this regard so why have it?

I say make them all FWD and lower the prices across the board. Use the new Sport Hybrid AWD system judiciously in the RLX, NSX and a lower priced FWD based coupe (40-50K). They should also simplify the product matrix, there is no reason that a car at RLX volume needs 5 trim levels. This also means unifying the trims, all cars should have Base, Tech and Advance (including ILX and RDX).

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Good ideas.

If more Acura dealers, like yours, will provide these improvement suggestions to the Honda North America headquarter, will Honda starts listening and learn ?

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

Here Here!

Colin's sensibilities straddle both his personal passion for the Honda products and keen consumer awareness as an Acura salesrep. It strikes a balance from which corporate seems detached.

In fact, I owe Colin props. The day after I viewed his video on the RL (along with some amusing vids of his cat), I test drove the RL at my dealership while getting my TL serviced and traded my TL for the RL on the spot.

I even told my dealer they owed the sale to Colin!

I stopped by his dealership on my last Hawaii visit (now immortalized in H5O) but alas, Colin was not there.

2011TL

Colin,

I agree 100% with your approach. The current arrangement makes no sense to the customer, and can't possibly be cost-effective for Acura or their dealers.

neuronbob

Colin for Acura President?

I thought the product line was moving toward Base/Tech/Advance anyway.

To keep it RLX-centric, here's how I'd do the packages:

Base RLX=FWD PAWS
Tech RLX=FWD PAWS + nav + ACC + CMBS
Advance RLX=Sport hybrid + Krell + everything else in Tech

I'll let you guys fill in the prices.

I don't think Acura is a failure, look at the CUV sales. They are obviously giving the market what they want on the CUV side. That just needs to rub off on the sedan side.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Acura is not a complete failure.

The Acura SUV line is, overall, successful.

Only the Acura sedan line is a failure.

KeithL

To give them credit, in-car cellular connectivity is just now hitting stride. I do think they should have seen where the trend was going and get there quicker. I think car makers need to make the head units more up-gradable so that they do not need to wait for MMC or FMC to implement such features. They need to treat the infotainment system different and figure out how to isolate it more from the guys of the car so they can adopt these things quicker. I would likely get a 15 Q70 when it hit in a few months, but the head unit is so damn dated.

KeithL

RDX and MDX are huge success! They fly out of dealers and yes many complain the RDX is missing features it's Korean competitors offer, but my guess is the RDX hit its target demo. Value oriented people wanting a luxury like SUV, but not wanting to drop $50K for it.

KeithL

The cost of the Sport Hybrid needs to get far more competitive to get there. I also think if the main part of the line were FWD they would be stuck as a Tier-1 Luxury brand wanna be. The fact is regardless of logic a Tier 1 car needs to be offered in RWD to be taken seriously, even if the masses do not buy that config. I still think they could have tweaked SH-AWD to make it more full time and remove the FWD stigma. Audi clear has taken a FWD design platform, stuck in Quattro and offered A4/A6 sedans even though they sell a lot of them in FWD config. don't see people bashing Audi for having a FWD platform? SH-AWD was a decent help, but people still saw the car as a FWD biased car. Hyundai/Kia realized this and that is why they have RWD platforms. They found it more important to release RWD ahead of AWD because they wanted to be taken seriously even though they knew the lack of AWD cost them sales in northern climates.

And we can all argue about FWD vs. RWD, but I have driven FWD most of my life and my M37S was RWD and my A6 AWD and I can feel the difference in road manners and driving experience and true most people would not notice or care, but it does make a difference to some and more so on those looking at luxury cars. I actually am hooked on full time AWD because of how uniformly the car just move, not felling of being pulled or pushed.

Colin

That's the whole point. They need to be "taken seriously" for what they are, and this means FWD. I do not want them to move up market, they should concentrate on doing what they do best, value luxury on existing platforms. I also mentioned that to go with this, they need lower prices. Recognize that they're Near Luxury and do it well and this means fewer trims and more loaded cars.

If some people leave the brand, no problem. Just make sure that you replace them with new, younger buyers. This means a better ILX and more 'sport' to draw in these buyers. I remember teens telling me that they waited years to get their license before they could persuade their parents to buy them an Integra. NO KID has an ILX poster on their wall waiting till he can get one.

KeithL

I guess I can see that point, but I would be one of those moving on permanently. I am excited to try a TLX, just wish there were a Type-S

db22

I think that there is a line that needs to be defined with the interpretation of "success". Yes, I agree that both the RDX and the MDX are a success, at least to Acura with respect to sales. I will add that the RDX is also a success to its owners too, it certainly has a niche and it fills it well. I do not concur with the "success" factor of the MDX with respect to owner satisfaction. I follow numerous forums of numerous brands and I have never seen so much dissatisfaction with a car as with the 2014 MDX. The niche that it is trying to fill is the same one that it has always tried to fill but the new design misses the mark, it is poorly executed, fraught with quality issues and incorporates numerous features that poorly function.
Does it sell well? Yes but I think that a lot of sales are based on the MDX's excellent reputation. The 2014+ may destroy that reputation and future sales may get aligned with its notorious problems. We may not know for a few more months.
Acura should sell the RLX Advance SH SHAWD Krell for $53500 and put it on the map as a player. It is not very recognizable for a couple of reasons: 1 the design in all honesty is bland although I personally like it and 2 there are not enough around for people to remember it. I can go for weeks without seeing one.
The line up now displays that the RLX is not necessarily a flagship luxury car. It is difficult for most luxury buyers to look at a base RLX FWD and consider it to be luxury. As has been discussed many times, it is a competitor to a TLX. If however the RLX was fully loaded and a buyer can be enticed into the showroom then the fully loaded version compares very well against the competition and therefore price becomes the criteria.
I was very excited to buy a SH SH-AWD RLX but, like a lot of other people, gave up after the first three delays of introduction. I went with an Audi A6 which to me is a direct competitor to the RLX. Acura have always given you more for less but I just don't see that philosophy being perpetrated by the Acura management anymore.

miner

Bring back the ITR - even a 57yo like me wants one.

lumpulus

I have owned an Acura of some kind since 1988....I've had Integra\RSXs. an RL, and now have a '13 ZDX and a '14 RDX in the garage. They are\were all fantastic vehicles...not best in class across the board, but certainly best bang for the buck by far, given reliability factors.

The one thing I like best about Acura is SH-AWD...hopefully the Sport Hybrid system will be as good or better, but I personally won't buy a vehicle unless it has AWD of some kind due to where I live.

I liken the current situation with Acura management with the job I have had for the past 15+ years now....I have done the same job, sat in the same office with the same coworkers(for the most part) since 1999, but have worked for 6 different named companies(soon to be 7 on August 1) with countless management shakeups where nothing gets better, and in fact gotten worse one or two times...the point is, they have a good foundation(Honda) but they keep changing management instead of listening to what their customers want.

Agree 100% about bringing the ITR back, plus we need another S2k roadster, but with enough room this time for bigger guys like me.

George Knighton

I owned '00 #110 from December 1999 to August 2013.

I've *never* owned any other car that long.

It's hard to imagine that they'll ever hit a sweet spot like that again. A 2014 equivalent would have to be a Civic sized vehicle with SH-AWD and 250 HP.

Good luck with that.

:-)

Mike_TX

Honda is and always has been a very conservative car company. They move slowly and carefully, not taking any big chances. You might say that the original Civic and Accord were risky moves, but those cars were already in production in Japan, and Soichiro Honda was alive and in charge.

As Soichiro-san aged and eventually passed away and others took over, Honda became less daring and increasingly played it safe. And they still do ... look at the upcoming TLX, for example, and you basically see a 2014 TL with some rounded contours and different tail lights. Daring new styling? No. New, more-powerful and fuel-efficient turbo engines? No. Completely revamped interior? No. Cutting-edge tech or mechanicals? Well ... no.

In the past few years, some other car companies have moved ahead by taking risks, while Honda has taken the safe approach and just tried to hunker down and make good cars. Trouble is, good cars don't make the news ... daring designs and new technology make the news.

Honda can continue to survive - and even thrive - on good, basic cars, but others will pass them by with better looks, more functionality and more pizzaz.

Honda would do well to hire the top management and engineering staff at Hyundai.

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George Knighton

What I was trying to do was to get you to admit the raison d'être of Google...data mining and the sale of that data. That's why everything's so cheap if it says Google on it, you're giving away a part of your life if you're using Google or Android.

And Honda didn't like anything that said "OnStar" on it because the open mic was a known weakness. They needed a fully reliable cellular connectivity service that was physically incapable of surreptitious snooping. In 2014 we could adapt and use the new OnStar services, but they've already come up with their own systems.