When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Even an Acura dealership owner doesn't consider Acura luxury.
I don't care about marketing. I don't care if Acura is trying to be a luxury brand or not. All I am saying is that to someone used to less, the Acura products will seem like more. I'm simply talking about perception from the consumer point of view. I've seen people saying the top level Kia Telluride is luxurious, we all know for a fact Kia is not a luxury brand, but to those people the Telluride comes off as luxurious. It's purely personal.
Can we have one thread where someone doesn't post that retarded JD Power chart that we've already beaten to death and proven is completely irrelevant and pointless?
Can we have one thread where someone doesn't post that retarded JD Power chart that we've already beaten to death and proven is completely irrelevant and pointless?
It's far from pointless, and it's not the same chart you lost your shit over previously anyway. The chart posted in the earlier thread reflected the results of the IQS survey. Surely you remember ... it had the Koreans ranked at the top?
Yeah, I remember, that was where people were claiming that a Kia was better quality than a Land Rover. That was good times. The entire world is clearly following their opinions. LMAO
Yeah, I remember, that was where people were claiming that a Kia was better quality than a Land Rover. That was good times. The entire world is clearly following their opinions. LMAO
You know, every time you declare Land Rover to be a high quality manufacturer you lose more credibility on the subject. Everyone with basic knowledge of the auto industry knows Rover has been at or near the bottom of quality rankings for many years, and the Koreans have been progressively moving up the rankings for years. You seem to equate 'cost' with 'quality', and it just doesn't work that way.
Yeah, I remember, that was where people were claiming that a Kia was better quality than a Land Rover. That was good times. The entire world is clearly following their opinions. LMAO
If my life depended on a car working correctly to carry me from point A to point B, 100 times out of 100 I would choose a Kia over any British car. This is coming from someone who has owned and worked on British cars and motorcycles. Anyone with real experience would not be surprised to see JLR at the bottom of any quality survey.
You know, every time you declare Land Rover to be a high quality manufacturer you lose more credibility on the subject. Everyone with basic knowledge of the auto industry knows Rover has been at or near the bottom of quality rankings for many years, and the Koreans have been progressively moving up the rankings for years. You seem to equate 'cost' with 'quality', and it just doesn't work that way.
It's not my personal opinion and I personally don't like Land Rovers. Also, I don't really claim to have credibility on the subject, since I'm a self-professed not-car-guy. But that's OK because the survey is taken from not-car-people. It's just random opinions that are wholly unscientific. Do you know who has less credibility than me on anything? Anyone who cites a JD Power survey for any reason whatsoever. It's completely meaningless.
If my life depended on a car working correctly to carry me from point A to point B, 100 times out of 100 I would choose a Kia over any British car. This is coming from someone who has owned and worked on British cars and motorcycles. Anyone with real experience would not be surprised to see JLR at the bottom of any quality survey.
Sure, but if your life depended on a car working correctly to get from point A to point B, you'd pick some low-cost and bare-bones car with no tech to go wrong. So that's sort of irrelevant. I mean, to be honest, you'd be better off picking a bicycle over any car. Or riding a mule. The less advanced you got, the better. A mule probably wins the JD Power survey.
If my life depended on a car working correctly to carry me from point A to point B, 100 times out of 100 I would choose a Kia over any British car. This is coming from someone who has owned and worked on British cars and motorcycles. Anyone with real experience would not be surprised to see JLR at the bottom of any quality survey.
Then you have users like Driverone who doesn't understand why it was posted in the 1st place and comes here just to add his irrelevant and worthless opinion. Everyone else was able to hold an adult conversation and then you entered. Thanks for stopping by.
It's not my personal opinion and I personally don't like Land Rovers.
And yet you continue to use Rover, Volvo and other premium brands as evidence that the survey results are wrong.
Originally Posted by DriverOne
Also, I don't really claim to have credibility on the subject, since I'm a self-professed not-car-guy. But that's OK because the survey is taken from not-car-people. It's just random opinions that are wholly unscientific. Do you know who has less credibility than me on anything? Anyone who cites a JD Power survey for any reason whatsoever. It's completely meaningless.
The surveys are not completely meaningless. As I have stated clearly in the past, I have my own issues with JDP's methodologies, but the survey results come from real owners and the reported problems are real. My biggest issue is that the reported "problems" are all weighted the same. Chattering windshield wipers should not be on the same level as a gearbox failure, and yet JDP simply reports each as one problem. So while the number of problems is accurate, there is nothing to indicate if the problem is an annoyance or a major mechanical issue. Still, if the information weren't deemed useful to the auto manufacturers, they wouldn't pony up big bucks to get the detailed reports. Consumers might not know what those reported problems are, but the manufacturers subscribing to the service will, and they use that information to improve future results. Fewer reported problems = better customer retention, and that's invaluable in the auto industry. I am of the opinion that the reports themselves have minimal direct influence on consumer behavior. So fear not ... a survey chart posted in an Acurazine thread is not going to tank RDX sales.
Originally Posted by DriverOne
Sure, but if your life depended on a car working correctly to get from point A to point B, you'd pick some low-cost and bare-bones car with no tech to go wrong. So that's sort of irrelevant. I mean, to be honest, you'd be better off picking a bicycle over any car. Or riding a mule. The less advanced you got, the better. A mule probably wins the JD Power survey.
There you go stereotyping again. Hyundais and Kias are not bare-bones transportation, and their buyers are not necessarily people looking for the cheapest way to get from point A to point B. Their past reputation being what it is means the Koreans have to provide a legitimate product and/or a significant value advantage in order to compete. And they are. If there is a brand that can count on their reputation for building reliable appliances to sell cars, that brand is Toyota.
Most people acquiring $60k cars are not buying them, they are leasing. And if you can actually buy a $60k brand new car then your pockets are deep enough to not really care so much about repairs. Even so, I bet most of those buyers are out of them before the warranty (or extended warranty) is out. Point being the vast majority of people driving out of warranty German cars got them used and didn't pay near that much. Also if you check out BMW quality rates lately (2015+) they are average or better than average. Audi too. They are not what they used to be.
And really one wonders how big a consideration that really is. Look how many people buy new Volvos, Jaguars, Fiats, etc. in spite of very well documented quality issues.
Second is also check out Acura sedan quality (also 2015+). All three sedans are below average, or at the very least not what they used to be by far. My 06 TSX was bullet proof - 9 years, 120k miles and not a single issue. My 15 TLX failed backing out of my driveway 3 months after purchase.
Being perfectly honest, if you have $60k and want long-term ownership reliability (8+ years) it's Lexus. I'd be willing to bet Genesis would be good long term too.
I've owned Acura, Honda, Volvo, Audi, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota and Lexus. The only two cars to have problems were my Acura TL SH-AWD (needed a weld fixed around the moonroof - dealer had car for a month) and my current 2018 Honda Pilot (bad bearings on the A/C blower and failed rear differential seal) - both before 15K miles. All of these cars were driven for at least 50K miles. The Honda also has one of the worse transmissions made, misaligned trim pieces/body panels, the second and third row seats squeak and/or making a loud ticking noise over bumps, the infotainment is a mess. Honda/Acura's reliability is meh at this point...
My wife drives the Pilot because it fits our needs for size and utility but it's not a long-term keeper. I seriously considered the RDX but after reading about all the issues and my history of issues with Honda/Acura products I now drive an RX350 because I just want something that works and it will be a longterm keeper.
Honda needs to NOT rush product development with these vehicles AND not only needs to elevate its game in terms of quality across the board but Acuras need to really be better than Hondas for the premium price paid. Some have said there are more QC checks for Acura but it doesn't show in the final product. Toyota/Lexus does a good job with this....Toyotas are reliable and well-made and Lexus IS reliable and still a bit better made. What ever the real difference there is something very real and tangible about the difference between a Toyota and Lexus - I do not feel the same about Honda/Acura. That's not to say Acuras don't come with more stuff....they just don't feel like there's a difference in how that stuff is put together.
I've owned Acura, Honda, Volvo, Audi, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota and Lexus. The only two cars to have problems were my Acura TL SH-AWD (needed a weld fixed around the moonroof - dealer had car for a month) and my current 2018 Honda Pilot (bad bearings on the A/C blower and failed rear differential seal) - both before 15K miles. All of these cars were driven for at least 50K miles. The Honda also has one of the worse transmissions made, misaligned trim pieces/body panels, the second and third row seats squeak and/or making a loud ticking noise over bumps, the infotainment is a mess. Honda/Acura's reliability is meh at this point...
My wife drives the Pilot because it fits our needs for size and utility but it's not a long-term keeper. I seriously considered the RDX but after reading about all the issues and my history of issues with Honda/Acura products I now drive an RX350 because I just want something that works and it will be a longterm keeper.
Honda needs to NOT rush product development with these vehicles AND not only needs to elevate its game in terms of quality across the board but Acuras need to really be better than Hondas for the premium price paid. Some have said there are more QC checks for Acura but it doesn't show in the final product. Toyota/Lexus does a good job with this....Toyotas are reliable and well-made and Lexus IS reliable and still a bit better made. What ever the real difference there is something very real and tangible about the difference between a Toyota and Lexus - I do not feel the same about Honda/Acura. That's not to say Acuras don't come with more stuff....they just don't feel like there's a difference in how that stuff is put together.
I had the exact opposite experience than you. The Toyota’s and Lexus’s I owned had more problems than my Honda and hopefully, my Acura.
The Lexuses and Toyota’s I owned had more engine issues and needed to go back to the dealer. They never lasted past 200k miles without at least an engine failure. My Honda Odyssey, the cheapest car out of the bunch and is now 12 years old, has now 240k miles and never a problem. Never any engine or transmission problems. I’ll admit it might need some suspension work, but what car doesn’t at 240k miles and is 12 years old?
This just shows that everyone’s experience is different. Lexus has a horrible drive and not sporty at all. If you like the numb steering feeling then go for it. After driving Toyota’s and Lexus’s, I then switched over to Infiniti and loved the how sporty it drives. Honda/Acura is right in between Lexus and Infiniti.
Every car is different. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t. You were probably unlucky getting a TL that needed welding. Most people don’t have that problem. Same with your Honda Pilot.
Last edited by mathnerd88; 07-14-2019 at 08:05 AM.
And yet you continue to use Rover, Volvo and other premium brands as evidence that the survey results are wrong.
That's right, because -- completely independent of my opinion -- society thinks quite well of Rover, Volvo, and other premium brands. That's despite you claiming they don't know what they're talking about AND JD Power claiming those are sub-quality brands. Including such brands as BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz. So you guys can sit around and sneer about how little the public knows, but then why are you citing the same public who aren't even giving a scientific response in a meaningless survey that is really only there to promote JD Power? I mean, I guess I'm not as smart and wise as 04WDPSeDaN, who thinks he's an adult, but answer me that. Why aren't wise adults like him on Kia forums buying Kias, since they're so awesome? Is it because he bought an Acura solely so that people who don't know anything would look up to him but he knows Kias are better, secretly in his wise and adult heart?
That's right, because -- completely independent of my opinion -- society thinks quite well of Rover, Volvo, and other premium brands. That's despite you claiming they don't know what they're talking about AND JD Power claiming those are sub-quality brands. Including such brands as BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz. So you guys can sit around and sneer about how little the public knows, but then why are you citing the same public who aren't even giving a scientific response in a meaningless survey that is really only there to promote JD Power? I mean, I guess I'm not as smart and wise as 04WDPSeDaN, who thinks he's an adult, but answer me that. Why aren't wise adults like him on Kia forums buying Kias, since they're so awesome? Is it because he bought an Acura solely so that people who don't know anything would look up to him but he knows Kias are better, secretly in his wise and adult heart?
Honestly, I know you're new around here and don't have the slightest clue about what I know, what I owned, what I've worked on ect. I assure you on every level of automotive experience, you wouldn't even know 10% let alone get your hands dirty. Welcome to Acurazine! If you need help checking your oil, shoot me a PM.
Honestly, I know you're new around here and don't have the slightest clue about what I know, what I owned, what I've worked on ect. I assure you on every level of automotive experience, you wouldn't even know 10% let alone get your hands dirty. Welcome to Acurazine! If you need help checking your oil, shoot me a PM.
Thanks, I'll keep it in mind. If you ever need any help with logic or basic thinking, I can assist you with that. I bet we would make a good team.
this thread has become painful. Face it, Acura has slipped big time since 2009. The RDX is a refreshing change to style and performance, but even the RDX has some serious issues that Acura has no solutions for.....Limp mode, USB/Carplay, etc. I am not surprised at all that Acura is much lower on any measure of quality. By all accounts the brands that we all laughed at a few years ago are getting better....and Land Rover is still junk.
this thread has become painful. Face it, Acura has slipped big time since 2009. The RDX is a refreshing change to style and performance, but even the RDX has some serious issues that Acura has no solutions for.....Limp mode, USB/Carplay, etc. I am not surprised at all that Acura is much lower on any measure of quality. By all accounts the brands that we all laughed at a few years ago are getting better....and Land Rover is still junk.
MOST already know this to be true. We are all part of the Acura community since we are members here and at one point a majority of users had Acuras. I can't speak for everyone, but I can firmly say that i'm sure most here, deep down inside, wants Acura to succeed and go back to their roots of what made Acura ACURA. These threads get derailed often when having open conversations turns 360 by certain users. It seem we've found our new "Robert" again, unless it him with another username. I give credit to the true enthusiast, those that aren't fan boys and actually know what's going on in the automotive industry, you know that like OTHER manufactures and have personal experiences (good or bad). Those that push or pushed wrenches. Those that get their hands dirty. I've seen it on many other forums and I have my own opinion on who I consider a true car enthusiast and one who isn't . I've stopped posting here for many reasons. I do my own thing, helping the community via facebook, instagram or other forums. Sorry If i was part of the "painful mess" it turned out to be. It's my last post here, I'll stick to my side of Acurazine.
Honestly, IMO, people buy luxury cars not because of the extra features that they most likely never use, but because they can show the public how much money they can stupidly waste on them. Majority of the luxury car buyers near me are Asian and it makes sense why. They go by cost but not what features it has. That’s why the public thinks Jaguar and Land Rover are luxury vehicles because of the cost. Lexus has designed a really ugly car with the horrendous grille for the past couple of years and yet many people buy them because of the sheer fact that in their minds, they own a Lexus. Most of the owners of these luxury brands buy the cheapest one they offer because of this, like the Lexus IS or the Mercedes C class or the BMW 3 series even if their seats are horrendous and hard and uncomfortable unlike other cheaper brands.
The argument was whether Acura was a luxury brand or not. While generally Acura is not considered as highly as BMW or Mercedes or Lexus and that’s why it is priced the way it is. It doesn’t make it not a luxury brand.
The same can be said with clothes and purses. Public perception of the vehicle influences its cost. Again, this is just my humble opinion.
You can throw all the shiny new features on a Kia and Hyundai and make it look as nice as a BMW and yet people will still have a perception of Kia and Hyundai as mainstream offerings and not luxury cars. They’re priced accordingly so.
Last edited by mathnerd88; 07-14-2019 at 11:23 AM.
Majority of the luxury car buyers near me are Asian and it makes sense why.
Dude, you have to be kidding with that. People who buy luxury cars are people who have money, doesn't matter what race they are. And lots of people who don't have money will lease luxury cars or buy pre-owned ones.
What makes a car a "luxury" or "premium" car is a) it has lots of features and b) it's "well-appointed." Literally, it feels luxurious. Performance is actually irrelevant to a certain degree, although of course nobody is buying a luxury car that looks good and can't drive straight. But, for example, many times a luxury vehicle will deliberately have a suspension or steering that is tuned more for comfort. So mostly what makes a car "luxury" are the materials. Is there real wood trim? There should be minimal plastics. It's stupid things like a solid and soft thud when the door closes. It's quality leather and contrast stitching. That's really the only thing that makes something a "luxury brand." Acura is a luxury brand. Now, within that strata of luxury cars, it's on the lower end, but again that's by design. It's sort of a bridge and that's where they're trying to compete. They give you very nice quality without being at the top and it's for a relatively low price. The starting price of a base trim RDX is pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. You could be a 25-year-old and have one of those and it wouldn't be a stretch.
Oh, and you're never going to get people to think of Kia as a luxury brand while you have the Kia Soul driving around on the road. It doesn't matter how great your top of the line car. All people will know is the Kia Soul.
Dude, you have to be kidding with that. People who buy luxury cars are people who have money, doesn't matter what race they are. And lots of people who don't have money will lease luxury cars or buy pre-owned ones.
What makes a car a "luxury" or "premium" car is a) it has lots of features and b) it's "well-appointed." Literally, it feels luxurious. Performance is actually irrelevant to a certain degree, although of course nobody is buying a luxury car that looks good and can't drive straight. But, for example, many times a luxury vehicle will deliberately have a suspension or steering that is tuned more for comfort. So mostly what makes a car "luxury" are the materials. Is there real wood trim? There should be minimal plastics. It's stupid things like a solid and soft thud when the door closes. It's quality leather and contrast stitching. That's really the only thing that makes something a "luxury brand." Acura is a luxury brand. Now, within that strata of luxury cars, it's on the lower end, but again that's by design. It's sort of a bridge and that's where they're trying to compete. They give you very nice quality without being at the top and it's for a relatively low price. The starting price of a base trim RDX is pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. You could be a 25-year-old and have one of those and it wouldn't be a stretch.
Also, plenty of wealthy people don’t always buy luxury cars. I know couple of super wealthy people who only drive Toyota’s.
There are also plenty of non wealthy people who buy luxury cars also. I personally know people who make average wages who drive luxury vehicles.
Oh, and you're never going to get people to think of Kia as a luxury brand while you have the Kia Soul driving around on the road. It doesn't matter how great your top of the line car. All people will know is the Kia Soul.
Who's arguing that Kia is a luxury brand? Like Hyundai, Kia is a mainstream brand, albeit one with solid quality and more premium features than some luxury brands. That said, Kia's K900 is easily the most luxurious mainstream sedan sold in North America, putting luxury flagships like the Continental, CT6, S90 and RLX to shame.
Genesis is Hyundai's luxury brand, and there's nothing in the lineup that disqualifies Genesis from premium status. A couple crossovers and improved dealer network is all that's holding them back, and those things are coming.
MOST already know this to be true. We are all part of the Acura community since we are members here and at one point a majority of users had Acuras. I can't speak for everyone, but I can firmly say that i'm sure most here, deep down inside, wants Acura to succeed and go back to their roots of what made Acura ACURA. These threads get derailed often when having open conversations turns 360 by certain users. It seem we've found our new "Robert" again, unless it him with another username. I give credit to the true enthusiast, those that aren't fan boys and actually know what's going on in the automotive industry, you know that like OTHER manufactures and have personal experiences (good or bad). Those that push or pushed wrenches. Those that get their hands dirty. I've seen it on many other forums and I have my own opinion on who I consider a true car enthusiast and one who isn't . I've stopped posting here for many reasons. I do my own thing, helping the community via facebook, instagram or other forums. Sorry If i was part of the "painful mess" it turned out to be. It's my last post here, I'll stick to my side of Acurazine.
Cheers!
This an accurate assessment IMO. I owned a TL SH-AWD years ago and stay involved in the Acura community out of hope Acura gets their shit together. Love the way these cars drive - I don't think they're well-made or reliable enough to justify their price. Every time I'm looking for a new car I do my due diligence online going as far as test driving these cars and I just can't pull the trigger each time because of what I read. Every forum has fanboys and apologists who will never see a brand for what it is. The rationale is always the same - all cars have problems and reliability surveys are inaccurate and I know a guy who who owned the supposedly reliable brand and he had tons of problems. For those of us non-fanboys it really isn't hard to see which brands/models have real issues and which ones don't.
My opinion is Honda/Acura is managed more by the accounting department now than the engineering department with the primary goal of cost-containment and it shows in the final product.
Damn Acura making garbage after 2009. I mean my car is pretty crappy and I hate it. Like what's the deal with over 300hp vtec, sh-awd, body kit, extremely comfortable seats, leg room to match a 5 series, excellent handling, sparkling black paint, ridiculous amount of tech features and even those silly wishy washy headlight washers. They even put the same brakes on this thing as the much heavier Honda Ridgeline. Way too much brakes. Can't believe I spent 15.1k Canadian on a 5 year old Acura with 100k kilometers that has all those features. No problems with the car to speak of.... Acura ripped me off. Wish I had bought a before 2009 Acura so I could get something good. Car looks so crappy too, everyone that sees it in person be drooling and thinks it's a new design. I would much prefer a design that makes it look older than it is not newer. Crappy crappy 2012 Acura terrible value even though I could sell it today for as much or more than I bought it for. Oh well live and learn.
Damn Acura making garbage after 2009. I mean my car is pretty crappy and I hate it. Like what's the deal with over 300hp vtec, sh-awd, body kit, extremely comfortable seats, leg room to match a 5 series, excellent handling, sparkling black paint, ridiculous amount of tech features and even those silly wishy washy headlight washers. They even put the same brakes on this thing as the much heavier Honda Ridgeline. Way too much brakes. Can't believe I spent 15.1k Canadian on a 5 year old Acura with 100k kilometers that has all those features. No problems with the car to speak of.... Acura ripped me off. Wish I had bought a before 2009 Acura so I could get something good. Car looks so crappy too, everyone that sees it in person be drooling and thinks it's a new design. I would much prefer a design that makes it look older than it is not newer. Crappy crappy 2012 Acura terrible value even though I could sell it today for as much or more than I bought it for. Oh well live and learn.
For a thread that's now linked from just about every major car mag's website and other popular car blogs, this place has gotten preeetty embarassing. lol
Just for the record, the only vehicles I have ever owned with zero issues are three Mazdas... So why did I buy the RDX over the CX-5 or CX-9? Because Mazda was not putting in ventilated seats and other features I wanted at the time of purchase.. Of course now they are, so I may be returning to them...
07-13-2019, 02:43 PM
