ukrkoz

Hi all

I searched high and low and can't find answer to my question.

Is 2019 RDX engine dual injection or not? As in - direct AND ported injection? Like a Toyota NX200t one. Has 8 injectors, 4 in intake ports.

This is a deal breaking question for me.

Thank you.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

most cars on the road today, are both.... direct and port injected.
if that's a deal breaker to you, then you're looking for a car pre-2006.

ukrkoz

Well, not for say Ridgeline, which is direct injection ONLY, no ported injection. That said, does anyone actually know that spec? 8AR-FTS 2.0L is dual injected. There's reason I need to know this.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

well, it's kinda hard to recommend stuff without you giving the exact reason...

what is the reason that you need one but not the other?????

ukrkoz

Simple. It's well known issue actually. GDI builds up carbon on intake valves because petrol is not being sprayed onto them. Process goes rather fast, 30-40 000 miles and engine starts losing performance. This is why they finally caught to this and added 2nd row of injectors in intake ports. "Used during enhanced performance requirements", as book says, yet - they do flush carbon off valve stems and valves.
There's not much to recommend. I am in 2015 NX200t with ported/direct injection engine, which is a bit too small for me. I saw several reviews on new RDX comparing it to NX, clearly indicating how much larger it is. That had me more than interested but, if this engine follows Ridgeline suite and is strictly GDI, then sorry I am.
Thing is, it does not matter if it's Honda or VW or Toyota of GM GDI engine. No petrol flush=carbon build up sooner or later. There's proverbial ton of info on that online.
Hope this clears why I am more thna curious if this 2.0 turbo is dual or not. To be honest, I am also curious, how they managed to squeeze 40 hp more vs my NX 2.0 turbo. Same engines on the surface.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

per hondanews.com, it only uses a single source of fuel injection...Direct Injection.
https://www.acura.com/news-and-press...ticle=10386-en


he following powertrain features are new for the 2019 Acura RDX:

• VTEC Turbo® 2.0-liter, DOHC direct-injected inline-4 engine
• Computer-controlled Direct Injection (DI) with high-flow fuel injectors
• Low inertia mono-scroll turbo system with electric wastegate
• 10-Speed Automatic Transmission with Sequential SportShift
• Electronic shift-by-wire gear selector
• Acura Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™ (SH-AWD®) (available)
• 4-mode Integrated Dynamics System

Key Powertrain Features

Engine

• VTEC Turbo® 2.0-liter, DOHC direct-injected inline-4 engine
• 272 horsepower at 6,500 rpm (SAE net)
• 280 lb.-ft. torque at 1,600-4500 rpm (SAE net)
• VTEC® valvetrain with Dual VTC
• Low-inertia mono-scroll turbo system with electric wastegate
• Computer-controlled Direct Injection (DI) with high-flow fuel injectors
• 9.8:1 compression ratio
• Super lightweight, high-rigidity steel crankshaft
• "4-into-1" exhaust manifold integrated into cylinder-head casting
• Sodium-filled exhaust valves
• Forged steel connecting rods
• Drive-by-Wire™ throttle system
• Maintenance Minder™ system optimizes service intervals
• 100,000 +/- miles tune-up interval
• Premium Unleaded fuel recommended

zroger73

Dual injection is often used when manufacturers can't figure out how to solve issue with carbon build-up on the intake valves, so they use port injection and direct injection.

"Most engines" do NOT have dual injection - they're usually one or the other (mostly direct injection these days).

Honda doesn't have any engines with dual injection - they're all direct injection only. Honda started selling the Accord with direct injection in 2012. All Hondas are now direct injected except for the HR-V.

You don't find many direct-injected Hondas with issues resulting from carbon build-up on the intake valves.

UPDATE: After I responded, I realized you started a similar thread on the Ridgeline forum.

https://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/...ml#post3009196

RDX10

The RDX 2.0T is only direct injection, no port injection like a lot of toyotas. I vastly prefer the dual injection systems for obvious reasons.

ukrkoz

No crime in looking into Ridgeline, right? But deterrent was GDI only. Just not to be accused of trolling or something.
Yeahh... Sorry... It is what it is. Far I know, every GDI only engine has that issue. Honda would have been a miracle maker to avoid it somehow keeping it straight GDI. Unless they cam eup with some ingenious way that we don't know of, right?
Darn... I have no problem with my NX it's just like a shoe half size too small, you know. I had Highlander and it was too big... This one is too small... RDX looked like just about right and there we are...
Thing is, I am at the age when I need a car that I shall buy and keep for years to come. I don't want to do this few years down the road:


Sorry I stirred the pot here.. I was sort of excited with larger cargo/passenger room in RDX and, also, used to be major Honda fan anyway...

quantum7

This was discussed in some depth on this thread in June.....start around #220
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-969570/page6/

zroger73

If you search various Honda forums, you'll see lots of people asking about carbon issues on DI Honda engines, but hardly anyone reporting issues. This fear appears to have grown from early DI designs from certain manufacturers other than Honda.

We've got six years of history with the direct-injected engines on millions of Accords. Can you find even dozens of reports of problems due to carbon build-up on the intake valves of these engines?

quantum7

This is exactly what I found when searching through the Honda forum threads....virtually no reports of any carbon issues on Honda DI engines. Again, the thread that I linked above has some more discussion including some information regarding gas type related to carbon build up.
I keep my cars a long time so also a consideration. I feel somewhat better (but would prefer multiport injection)

ukrkoz

On it...

zroger73

There's still the HR-V and Civic LX, LX-P, and EX trims with good old-fashioned multi-port fuel injection.

ukrkoz

OK, OK, calm down everyone... No one knows HOW but apparently, Honda Earth dream (?) engines simply do not have build up issue even after 60 K miles.
Guess is they changed PCV system well enough to prevent any combustion byproduct retention. That's guess. No one really knows to be true.. That's from a Civic forum that had same engine for quite a bit... Not a single complaint and you know how Civic owners are - they tear them right away...
Ok, I'll swing by dealer some time soon... Just to get the "butt feel" inside the car...
Oh, appreciate suggestion but knees not good enough anymore to go into low seated cars...

zroger73

That's another thing I really like about my RDX - the seat height is perfect (at least for my 6' tall, 160 lb. frame). My '17 Ridgeline was a little high, but not bad. My '18 Accord was a little low. My '17 Civic was really low - too low.

Master47

ukrkoz

I guess, I'll dot i-s with this:

My Honda mechanic friend showed me an Earth Dreams engine (in an Accord) that the intake valves were badly coated at 75,000 miles (a courier vehicle for a drug store - lots of starts and stops) - he had to clean all the intake valves and replace the injector that provides some fuel for to clean the valves - I suspect that all Earth Dream engines have that feature.

The valves get coated by the oil/gas/air mixture sent to the intake by the PCV valve(s)(some cars have one on each side of the V6 or V8 or horizontally opposed engine). The really best cure is to put something to trap the oil after it leaves the PCV valve and before it gets to the air intake side.

and

Found a lot of technical detail in a couple of Development papers for the 2.4L and 3.5L Earth Dreams engines. The paper for the 2.4L goes into a lot more detail for the Direct Injection development that likely reduces carbon buildup on intake valves significantly. The technology includes injectors with 6 ports to stratify the injection charge and operates twice per combustion cycle. The first spray is while the Intake Valves are open and the second at the beginning of the Compression stroke. The description is very complex, but my take is that the first charge will actually hit the back of the Intake Valves emphasizing the need for Top Tier Gasoline. There are also Combustion Chamber and Piston shapes that enhance stratification and placement of the first injection charge.
The paper for the 2.4L is at this link:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...51325232,d.eWE
Of particular interest is the descrription of Direct Injection in section 4.
The paper for the 3.5L is at this link:
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/at...7&d=1416287677
The 3.5L paper does not go into the same detail as the 2.4L which was likely written first. The technology references are written at a higher level in the 3.5L with the detail in the 2.4L paper.
and:

Talked to the service writer yesterday. He said Honda is recommending a fuel induction service every other oil change. It will keep the top end free of carbon build up. Cost, $160. I said that's crazy. I'm used to dumping in 2 fuel injection cleaners every oil change. He said that's good for the under side of the valves. In that case he would recommend every 25,000 miles. Again, I feel that is over kill. Maybe every 50,000 yes. Or if a problem is noticed, like rough idle.

Master47

ChrisBesu

I have yet to buy the RDX, but I plan on eliminating the PCV valve like I did in my BMW and eliminate the problem from the root. Anyone do this yet?

cruiserchuck

I have not seen any complaints about carbon buildup on Honda engines. However, there are numerous complaints about fuel dilution with the 1.5 turbo. The 2.0 turbo has not been in use as long, but there do not seem to be similar complaints about fuel dilution on the 2.0 turbo. Hopefully the 2.0 turbo will not have that problem.

S3n

this is my worry and even more is the 0w 20 they use. .my audi s3 uses 5w40
i just see the 0w20 being risky esp if you plan on mostly spirited driving. Id give up a few mpg if that for better engine health any day. Im waiting for the type s version anyways so👍

securityguy

You would have zero issues using 5W30 in your engine...the 0W20 is only to meet fuel economy standards and 5W30 will do no harm and will be even better for the engine.

zroger73

The 2.0L turbo debuted in the EDM Civic Type R for the 2015 model year, so it has been around a bit longer. Its use has expanded to the Accord and RDX. There are tens of thousands in use, if not closer to 100,000 at this point. There are a few reports of external problems (electrical connector on Civic Type R and loose hose clamps on Accord), but no internal issues to speak of. We don't discuss the 10-speed automatic transmissions bolted to those 2.0L turbo engines.

The 1.5L turbo debuted in the USDM Civic EX-T/Touring for the 2016 model year. It's seeing use in millions of Civics, CR-V's, and Accords. There is some evidence of a fuel dilution issue for drivers who make mostly short trips in cold climates. There's even been a recall (not in the US). However, the actual number of problems compared to the number of these engines in use is incredibly small.

romicva

Wander

FWIW I drove a 2016 Honda Pilot with the direct-injection-only 3.5 L V6 for about 79k miles, and I had no issues at all with the engine. Really a strong runner, actually. Changed the oil ( Mobil 1 0-20W usually ) and otherwise never touched it. The 9-speed ZF transmission is a very different story; couldn't wait to be rid of that.

We have the same engine in our 2014 MDX, now at about 40k miles; no problems with that one either.

trcollins59

If you want naturally aspirated V6 Honda engine with larger interior size than Lexus NX, look at a 2018 RDX.

zroger73

Then he'll complain about VCM! Plus, the 2018 RDX is still direct injected.

For someone who hates turbochargers, VCM, and direct injection, I recommend a 2019 Honda HR-V. It's naturally-aspirated, doesn't have VCM, and uses multi-port fuel injection. But, it's smaller than the NX and is one of the slowest production vehicles made. It does get good fuel economy and has that awesome Magic Seat, though!

Njbrandon

I have a 2015 NX too, white on red F Sport. The Rdx is much bigger inside. It's wider, more legroom, and the trunk is twice the capacity. I didn't realize how slow the NX was until I drove the Rdx. There's also no torque steer as it handles much better. The infotainment touchpad drives me nuts.

But I haven't pulled the trigger because the NX has been problem free almost 4 years and is very smooth. The Rdx A spec lacks power heated steering wheel, spare tire, and folding mirrors. Don't like the Advance with the chrome bits. Still on the fence waiting to see what else is coming out.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha, you can just wrap the chrome bits!

cruiserchuck

My wife's Camry uses 0w20 oil, and we have not had any problems with it. I read that some newer Toyotas use 0w16 oil.

zroger73

Honda have been using 0W-16 in the Fit and hybrid models in Japan for many years. Toyota currently uses it in the Camry and Camry Hybrid in the US.

https://noln.net/2017/06/30/skinny-ow-16-oil/