Windows Home Server - You should consider it.. (pics)
02-04-2008, 01:26 AM
#1
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Windows Home Server - You should consider it.. (pics)
I love it so far, remote access to my home network and remote desktop to my computers from anywhere i'm at via a secure website, plus nightly backups, much easier than trying to setup an actual MS based server for home usage..
I ordered the evaluation kit for $5-6 [shipping fee], 120 day license for the software. To purchase the software it looks like it's about $150 if you have an old PC to use [or parts to build one], but HP and others have them ready to go out of the box w/ various specs/hdd sizes for $500 - $700
Since i'm nerdy I had the following items laying around:
Cheapo ASrock mobo
Intel P4 3.4 GHz
1GB DDR 333MHz Ram
160GB IDE HDD
BenQ 4x DVD-RW
Notes -
There is no need for a fancy sound card, or video card, as this thing is just sitting in my closet with nothing more than a power and ethernet cable hooked into it. A dvd-rom is required because the install is on a dvd. You can get away with a less powerful CPU and probably 512 ram [i think the hp version has 256 or 512], but ehh.. a little more ram never hurt anyone. I had all of this stuff laying around so I figured i'd put it to good use.
I love this thing so far; should my hdd crash or my OS get corrupt, I just put in the "WHS Restore CD" and it will boot my PC up, connect to the server, and pull my latest backup to my PC.
Seriously I advise those of who you are counting on just a USB external HDD to go with this, as it's a full backup solution, and integrates nicely w/ your operating system. I picked up two more 320gb SATA drives from Office Depot today, they were on sale for $79/ea!
Here's the screen shots:
I ordered the evaluation kit for $5-6 [shipping fee], 120 day license for the software. To purchase the software it looks like it's about $150 if you have an old PC to use [or parts to build one], but HP and others have them ready to go out of the box w/ various specs/hdd sizes for $500 - $700
Since i'm nerdy I had the following items laying around:
Cheapo ASrock mobo
Intel P4 3.4 GHz
1GB DDR 333MHz Ram
160GB IDE HDD
BenQ 4x DVD-RW
Notes -
There is no need for a fancy sound card, or video card, as this thing is just sitting in my closet with nothing more than a power and ethernet cable hooked into it. A dvd-rom is required because the install is on a dvd. You can get away with a less powerful CPU and probably 512 ram [i think the hp version has 256 or 512], but ehh.. a little more ram never hurt anyone. I had all of this stuff laying around so I figured i'd put it to good use.
I love this thing so far; should my hdd crash or my OS get corrupt, I just put in the "WHS Restore CD" and it will boot my PC up, connect to the server, and pull my latest backup to my PC.
Seriously I advise those of who you are counting on just a USB external HDD to go with this, as it's a full backup solution, and integrates nicely w/ your operating system. I picked up two more 320gb SATA drives from Office Depot today, they were on sale for $79/ea!
Here's the screen shots:
02-04-2008, 06:43 AM
#4
I don't have a Ferrari in
I have 3 Windows computers and 2 Macs on my network. I was thinking of going the Apple route in terms of backups and home server. How does this compare? Does anyone know?
02-04-2008, 09:33 AM
#5
Sanest Florida Man
Originally Posted by mastertl
I have 3 Windows computers and 2 Macs on my network. I was thinking of going the Apple route in terms of backups and home server. How does this compare? Does anyone know?
02-04-2008, 10:14 AM
#6
I'm the Firestarter
I love the idea but it seems expensive. Plus I don't want to run a regular computer 24/7 for this. I'd like something low-power, like 20W or less.
What's a cheap tiny low-power PC I could put this on?
Is the best bet just to buy one of these little HP pre-built machines?
What's a cheap tiny low-power PC I could put this on?
Is the best bet just to buy one of these little HP pre-built machines?
02-04-2008, 10:47 AM
#7
'05 TSX 6MT
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Dream come true. HP announced their box about a year ago, going to pay them a visit.
Was using MS small business server, expensive and hatefull. Left alot of "value-add opportunities for third party vendors".
Was using MS small business server, expensive and hatefull. Left alot of "value-add opportunities for third party vendors".
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02-04-2008, 10:59 AM
#8
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
I love the idea but it seems expensive. Plus I don't want to run a regular computer 24/7 for this. I'd like something low-power, like 20W or less.
What's a cheap tiny low-power PC I could put this on?
Is the best bet just to buy one of these little HP pre-built machines?
What's a cheap tiny low-power PC I could put this on?
Is the best bet just to buy one of these little HP pre-built machines?
The HP specs are:
Processor AMD 1.8GHz 64-bit Sempron processor
Memory 512MB DDR DRAM
Network support 10/100/1000 (Gigabit) RJ-45 Ethernet
Interfaces 4 USB 2.0 ports 1 eSATA port
Internal hard drives 2 SATA 7200 rpm, 1 TB (2 x 500GB)
Internal Universal Power Supply
2 empty HDD bays for expansion
Expansion 2 empty hard drive bays
Operating system Windows Home Server
Probably a pretty efficient little machine; also note that you can leave your desktops in standby, and the server will wake them up to run the backup, then put them back to sleep
02-04-2008, 11:00 AM
#9
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mastertl
I have 3 Windows computers and 2 Macs on my network. I was thinking of going the Apple route in terms of backups and home server. How does this compare? Does anyone know?
Not sure about the mac compatability.. I only have PCs in my house [3 desktops, 2 laptops, 1 server... and I wonder why my electric bill is $400+ a month]
02-04-2008, 11:01 AM
#10
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
I love the idea but it seems expensive. Plus I don't want to run a regular computer 24/7 for this. I'd like something low-power, like 20W or less.
What's a cheap tiny low-power PC I could put this on?
Is the best bet just to buy one of these little HP pre-built machines?
What's a cheap tiny low-power PC I could put this on?
Is the best bet just to buy one of these little HP pre-built machines?
(One of my co-workers is dying to get one, so hes been telling me all the good stuff about it)
02-04-2008, 11:15 AM
#11
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by bkknight369
The servers are actually pretty cheap...starting ~500, thats as expensive as some NAS solutions, though WHS has more options.
(One of my co-workers is dying to get one, so hes been telling me all the good stuff about it)
(One of my co-workers is dying to get one, so hes been telling me all the good stuff about it)
The NAS enclosure was $100, plus another $150 for the HDD.. Meanwhile I had all of this PC hardware laying around, the WHS software is ~$150, and I spent $170 on the two drives yesterday; it's about $70 more than the NAS solution I tried previously [actually had it for 2 days and it went back to Bestbuy], but the increased functionality and ease of use more than makes up for the difference.
I cannot RDP to my desktop for some reason, but I can RDP [from the web] to the server, so i'm guessing it's my internet security software denying me access
02-04-2008, 11:46 AM
#13
Go Giants
Looks cool, but doesn't sound like something I need...
02-04-2008, 12:06 PM
#14
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 5o9
If I get the HP EX475, can I have raid 5 by simply adding a third hard drive?
Here's the PDF to a description/tech info on "Drive Extender", it gives you info on how the system is setup [there is a single "data" drive, all other drives are added to make one big volume - the additional drives will not get drive letters]
http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...e_Extender.pdf
Couple of portions from it:
Originally Posted by Microsoft
Windows Home Server Drive Extender is different than and more powerful than a redundant array of independent disks (RAID) in several ways:
• You can use any hard drive, any time. You are not restricted to adding more hard drives of the same type and size. When you want to grow your home server storage, you can buy and add any hard drive you like.
• Internal and external hard drives can be used to grow your storage. No space in your home computer case? No problem—plug in one or more hard drives of your choice.
• Drive removal is easy. After you have had your home server for awhile, you may want to remove older, smaller hard drives and add new, larger hard drives so that you can store more files.
• You can use any hard drive, any time. You are not restricted to adding more hard drives of the same type and size. When you want to grow your home server storage, you can buy and add any hard drive you like.
• Internal and external hard drives can be used to grow your storage. No space in your home computer case? No problem—plug in one or more hard drives of your choice.
• Drive removal is easy. After you have had your home server for awhile, you may want to remove older, smaller hard drives and add new, larger hard drives so that you can store more files.
Originally Posted by Microsoft
Hard Drive Partitioning
In a single hard-drive system, Windows Home Server is configured with a 20-gigabyte system partition for the Windows Home Server operating system, and the remainder of the primary hard drive is allocated to the primary data partition. Each subsequent (or secondary) hard drive is logically added to the data partition. It appears to the user as one large hard drive; however, these drives are considered to be part of the secondary data partition. In reality, your home server consists of multiple hard drives of varying sizes.
The primary data partition is used to store a unique entry for each file. If a home server has more than one hard drive, these files become “tombstones.” Tombstones are NTFS file system reparse points that Windows Home Server Drive Extender understands. They are tiny files that redirect to one or two “shadow” files on the hard drives that make up the secondary data partition. The shadow files are where your data is really stored. If folder duplication is enabled for a Shared Folder, there will be two shadow files. If duplication is Off, there will be one shadow file.
~Note
The primary data partition in a home server should be as large as possible for two reasons:
• You want to provide sufficient space to grow the file table for all of the files that you will store on your home server.
• Windows Vista® and other home computer operating systems check to see if there is adequate space on the primary data partition prior to starting a copy operation.
You can add additional internal and external hard drives to your home server if you need more storage space for your folders and files. There is no need to use equal capacity hard drives—Windows Home Server will add the additional capacity of the new hard drive to the available storage on your home server.
~Note
In a home server with three or more hard drives, Windows Home Server Drive Extender will attempt to move all of the files off the primary data partition onto the secondary hard drives to maximize the amount of free space on the primary data partition.
~Caution
It is highly recommended that you not use hardware RAID technologies for your home server. Recovering from hard-drive failures becomes increasingly complex when hardware RAID systems are used. The recommended approach is to use multiple hard drives that are configured as Just a Bunch of Disks (JBOD).
In a single hard-drive system, Windows Home Server is configured with a 20-gigabyte system partition for the Windows Home Server operating system, and the remainder of the primary hard drive is allocated to the primary data partition. Each subsequent (or secondary) hard drive is logically added to the data partition. It appears to the user as one large hard drive; however, these drives are considered to be part of the secondary data partition. In reality, your home server consists of multiple hard drives of varying sizes.
The primary data partition is used to store a unique entry for each file. If a home server has more than one hard drive, these files become “tombstones.” Tombstones are NTFS file system reparse points that Windows Home Server Drive Extender understands. They are tiny files that redirect to one or two “shadow” files on the hard drives that make up the secondary data partition. The shadow files are where your data is really stored. If folder duplication is enabled for a Shared Folder, there will be two shadow files. If duplication is Off, there will be one shadow file.
~Note
The primary data partition in a home server should be as large as possible for two reasons:
• You want to provide sufficient space to grow the file table for all of the files that you will store on your home server.
• Windows Vista® and other home computer operating systems check to see if there is adequate space on the primary data partition prior to starting a copy operation.
You can add additional internal and external hard drives to your home server if you need more storage space for your folders and files. There is no need to use equal capacity hard drives—Windows Home Server will add the additional capacity of the new hard drive to the available storage on your home server.
~Note
In a home server with three or more hard drives, Windows Home Server Drive Extender will attempt to move all of the files off the primary data partition onto the secondary hard drives to maximize the amount of free space on the primary data partition.
~Caution
It is highly recommended that you not use hardware RAID technologies for your home server. Recovering from hard-drive failures becomes increasingly complex when hardware RAID systems are used. The recommended approach is to use multiple hard drives that are configured as Just a Bunch of Disks (JBOD).
Last edited by timmahh; 02-04-2008 at 12:08 PM.
02-04-2008, 12:18 PM
#15
Kang Ho
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Looks pretty cool. My manager is into this. He even show me a funny whs site, but I cant remember what it was....I may look into this if I can build a low end desktop.
02-04-2008, 12:39 PM
#17
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by sonnyg80
but does it come with a built-in fleshlight?
Let's actually try to keep this on topic and not have another thread go to shit.
But no, it doesn't.
02-04-2008, 12:39 PM
#18
Go Giants
Originally Posted by sonnyg80
but does it come with a built-in fleshlight?
02-04-2008, 12:40 PM
#19
...
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Originally Posted by used fleshlight
Let's actually try to keep this on topic and not have another thread go to shit.
But no, it doesn't.
But no, it doesn't.
:createsaWhatAreTheOddsthread:
02-04-2008, 12:44 PM
#21
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by sonnyg80
Anyway - Windows Home Server looks pretty cool
One of the add-ins created for it is the home automation plugin, I haven't read up on it, but that would be pretty sweet to logon to your home server from where you're at and make sure the garage door is closed, or turn up the heater, etc.
02-04-2008, 12:48 PM
#22
Go Giants
Originally Posted by used fleshlight
It's pretty sweet, really easy to setup and does exactly what a home user would need it to do
One of the add-ins created for it is the home automation plugin, I haven't read up on it, but that would be pretty sweet to logon to your home server from where you're at and make sure the garage door is closed, or turn up the heater, etc.
One of the add-ins created for it is the home automation plugin, I haven't read up on it, but that would be pretty sweet to logon to your home server from where you're at and make sure the garage door is closed, or turn up the heater, etc.
02-04-2008, 04:09 PM
#23
Sanest Florida Man
Timmah one thing about the RDP you have to have RDP installed on your PC for WHS to RD to it. Vista Premium doesn't have RDP but you should be able to RD to Vista Ultimate.
02-04-2008, 04:23 PM
#25
Big Block go VROOOM!
Originally Posted by Microsoft
~Caution
It is highly recommended that you not use hardware RAID technologies for your home server. Recovering from hard-drive failures becomes increasingly complex when hardware RAID systems are used. The recommended approach is to use multiple hard drives that are configured as Just a Bunch of Disks (JBOD).
It is highly recommended that you not use hardware RAID technologies for your home server. Recovering from hard-drive failures becomes increasingly complex when hardware RAID systems are used. The recommended approach is to use multiple hard drives that are configured as Just a Bunch of Disks (JBOD).
02-04-2008, 04:33 PM
#26
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Timmah one thing about the RDP you have to have RDP installed on your PC for WHS to RD to it. Vista Premium doesn't have RDP but you should be able to RD to Vista Ultimate.
Originally Posted by moeronn
This looks promising. Does MHS work with computers running XP? Would Remote Desktop work on XP Home?
Originally Posted by Billiam
So is this just a thinly veiled way of saying "We're marketing this product for people with next to zero technical skills"? They spin the line about "getting serious" with backups to a server and then tell you you're just supposed to have faith that your disks will never fail? What am I missing here?
I would say it's more than adequate for most people, considering many rely on a single external [.. and droppable!] HDD, or a flash drive or DVD... This is a much better alternative that ensures proper FULL system backups w/ restore functionality.
Last edited by timmahh; 02-04-2008 at 04:36 PM.
02-04-2008, 05:08 PM
#27
Big Block go VROOOM!
I still don't see how (following Micorosoft's recommendations) WHS can provide backups that are any more reliable than just using an external drive. That's my only real bitch, although I obviously feel it's a significant one. If you take into account, the convenience of how the backups are made, along with how it handles backing up multiple machines and the list of other things it offers, then WHS is indeed a tempting product for most people.
02-04-2008, 05:24 PM
#28
is learning to moonwalk i
To me it's the file sharing, redundancy, ability to handle multiple computers and backups directly, the ability to backup the backup and the ease of adding additional storage that make it attractive. Still not completely sold, though.
02-04-2008, 05:49 PM
#29
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by moeronn
To me it's the file sharing, redundancy, ability to handle multiple computers and backups directly, the ability to backup the backup and the ease of adding additional storage that make it attractive. Still not completely sold, though.
Also the remote desktop portion and access of your files is pretty darn handy
moe - do you have a spare pc sitting around that you can load the OS onto? If so, goto microsoft.com and order the 120 day evaluation, its $5 or $6 for shipping.. give it a shot
02-04-2008, 05:55 PM
#31
is learning to moonwalk i
Originally Posted by used fleshlight
Also the remote desktop portion and access of your files is pretty darn handy
moe - do you have a spare pc sitting around that you can load the OS onto? If so, goto microsoft.com and order the 120 day evaluation, its $5 or $6 for shipping.. give it a shot
moe - do you have a spare pc sitting around that you can load the OS onto? If so, goto microsoft.com and order the 120 day evaluation, its $5 or $6 for shipping.. give it a shot
02-04-2008, 06:06 PM
#32
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Billiam
I still don't see how (following Micorosoft's recommendations) WHS can provide backups that are any more reliable than just using an external drive. That's my only real bitch, although I obviously feel it's a significant one. If you take into account, the convenience of how the backups are made, along with how it handles backing up multiple machines and the list of other things it offers, then WHS is indeed a tempting product for most people.
Ok, lemme just throw this one out there..
You do a full backup of your PC to an external USB HDD
You put the external HDD away for safe keeping
Two days later, your home PC crashes, drive failure
You go to get your external HDD and you drop it
Your external drive is now dead
Now what do you do ? I know it's rare but just throwing that out there..
Also, nifty thing I just read, the WHS server only stores one copy of each file.. example:
In my case, I have two computers running Vista, so when the backup runs and let's say it's copying explorer.exe to the WHS server, the WHS server says hey.. i've already got a file with this size and hash, I don't need to store it again.. nifty for space efficiency
02-04-2008, 06:32 PM
#33
Race Director
Originally Posted by used fleshlight
Ok, lemme just throw this one out there..
You do a full backup of your PC to an external USB HDD
You put the external HDD away for safe keeping
Two days later, your home PC crashes, drive failure
You go to get your external HDD and you drop it
Your external drive is now dead
Now what do you do ? I know it's rare but just throwing that out there..
Also, nifty thing I just read, the WHS server only stores one copy of each file.. example:
In my case, I have two computers running Vista, so when the backup runs and let's say it's copying explorer.exe to the WHS server, the WHS server says hey.. i've already got a file with this size and hash, I don't need to store it again.. nifty for space efficiency
You do a full backup of your PC to an external USB HDD
You put the external HDD away for safe keeping
Two days later, your home PC crashes, drive failure
You go to get your external HDD and you drop it
Your external drive is now dead
Now what do you do ? I know it's rare but just throwing that out there..
Also, nifty thing I just read, the WHS server only stores one copy of each file.. example:
In my case, I have two computers running Vista, so when the backup runs and let's say it's copying explorer.exe to the WHS server, the WHS server says hey.. i've already got a file with this size and hash, I don't need to store it again.. nifty for space efficiency
I on purpose destroyed the machine. WHS got it back as easy as putting the disk in and restoring. They acutally had other nice features which they were just trying on us that they pulled before it went GA, probably be in SP1 as I don't think they were ready yet.
02-04-2008, 06:44 PM
#34
I'm using SBS 2003 that I got in my MSDN kit. It does much of the same stuff, but having Exchange Server handle all the household's mail plus having webmail and remote desktop is nice.
If I didn't have SBS, I'd be all over WHS.
If I didn't have SBS, I'd be all over WHS.
02-04-2008, 07:08 PM
#35
does it access files off of computers that are on or does it mount the VHD (backup) and allow you to access files from there?
can you pull files off of a backup on the fly, off of a backup of another machine, or just your own machine?
let us know
can you pull files off of a backup on the fly, off of a backup of another machine, or just your own machine?
let us know
02-04-2008, 07:58 PM
#36
Sanest Florida Man
Originally Posted by Malayalee King
does it access files off of computers that are on or does it mount the VHD (backup) and allow you to access files from there?
can you pull files off of a backup on the fly, off of a backup of another machine, or just your own machine?
let us know
can you pull files off of a backup on the fly, off of a backup of another machine, or just your own machine?
let us know
It will then list all the backups available from certain dates and you choose which one you want to view. From there you can choose which drive if you have more than one and if you don't then it begins opening the backup.
Which may take a few minutes. Afterwards the backup will open and mount to your PC like a network drive probably as drive Z. Yes you can view backups from other computers. The backup I"m viewing in this demonstration is from a macbook laptop running bootcamp but the laptop isn't evn on right now. Hence why it's greyed out in the list of computers.
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 02-04-2008 at 08:01 PM.
02-04-2008, 09:30 PM
#38
Sanest Florida Man
Originally Posted by used fleshlight
Stunna - have you had any backup failures? Mine failed earlier stating it could not read the volume information... !
!You have the HP mediasmart right? Check this out here's a cool easter egg that can make the lights on the front do different things!!
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jif2NQQ03es&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jif2NQQ03es&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
Dude I want the knight rider lights so BAD!!
02-04-2008, 09:38 PM
#40
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Thread Starter
No I have a home brewed one
But it looks like my volume shadow copy service was not running, I enabled it and did chkdsk /f /r and rebooted.. backing up now
I have a home brewed oneBut it looks like my volume shadow copy service was not running, I enabled it and did chkdsk /f /r and rebooted.. backing up now