amisconception

Spaghetti is my favorite food.

God

I've had sprint for over 2 1/2 yrs now and I just got a new phone to replace my old one . The samsung A600 is a really awesome phone .

fbazakos

soopa

this post makes no sense to me.

frame rate and resolution have very little to do with each other.


as for the quake example that also makes no sense.

where FR and Res have a relationship is the tax it puts on your pc.... it is more difficult to redraw high resolution frames then low resolition frames.

a card that can give you 20000fps at 320x240 could maybe only give you 100fps (random numbers for example) at high resolutions.

and in the `pc` scenario you have another factor... your monitors refresh rate.

none of this has anything to do with phones except for lack of processing power.... which... based on your bandwidth numbers.... is the limiting factor i would guess.


with the 100+ kbps currently available... and most current screens... you could certainly display broadcast quality video............. if the phones processor could handle it.


anyway.... i think most all people would be very happy with normal `web quality` video on their phones.

fbazakos

well i was allowing you to come up with the conclusion, which you kind of did, but my point was that BANDWIDTH is the limiting factor. believe me, if it were possible, you'd see it.

thanks for thinking aloud though



i want HD on my cell phone, Ken make it happen.

soopa

how is bandwidth the limiting factor at those speeds?


is EVDO being used by the public? or is it a future thing?


1x-RTT... if its bursting at 144Kb then i can def see how bandwidth is limited.


What are actual average rates of speed? Who cares what it CAN do I wanna know what its doing.


If EVDO is consistently giving you 2Mb/s speeds it could definately handle DVD quality video.... assuming the phone could handle processing it.

fbazakos

well it's a simple function of mathematics. i understand your point, i want to have my cake and eat it too.

EVDO is public. Bursting is 2 megabits or more. Typical throughput is 500-800 kilobits.

1XRTT typical throughput is 80-110 kilobits.

Marketing and legal have lowered the numbers, but the performance of my system is much higher.

I haven't seen anything worthwhile on phones yet. But with the EVDO data card in my laptop I can stream fullstream video. The bandwidth just isn't there for 30 fps of high res video.

soopa

how many times can one contradict themselves in one post?

so... you can stream... but the bandwidth isnt there?!?


im telling you that at 2Mb/sec... DVD quality... 720x480 30FPS video is VERY EASY to transmit with MINIMAL compression.

period.


At sustained rates of 500-800Kb/sec... it is STILL more than possible.


period.

fbazakos

I don't understand how you aren't following me.

I have stated the bandwidth possible.

I have stated my desires.

I have stated what is deliverable.

deliverable != desireable.

Now if it is "very easy" to deliver my desireable, then you should get into the business and make yourself some money. the things that we deliver today are what I would consider "very hard" -- so it sounds like you've got something figured out that nobody else in the world has...

kensteele

Fotis and I and Siggy Dave had lunch today. It was nice. Fotis is a nice guy. Really.

kensteele

So I'm already hearing that Sprint PTT called Ready Link; it's making a killing. People really wanted this stuff, huh? I guess, for free.....

YuppieCL

so how did u like spcs' ptt fotis? u must share... i'm curious to see what its like...

soopa

lol...

so its only == desireable if its HD quality on a 2 inch screen eh?

i think 99.99999999999% of the world would be happy with less then VGA quality video. same as millions are even today watching videos streamed over the web.

its funny how your arguments turn into what YOU want when you have no point to make.

soopa

and btw... i said you contridicted yourself... and you did. and you just did it again...

you said "The bandwidth just isn't there for 30 fps of high res video"

but... like i already said... at the bandwidth numbers you claim... it is certainly possible... so there is obviously some other limiting factor... OR... you arent able to deliver the bandwidth you claim.

so... wanna contridict yourself ONE more time?

fbazakos

if it's possible get off your ass and do it.

you think some punk in upstate NY knows something the rest of the world doesn't?

i'm getting tired of having to explain this to you over & over.

lotta bold statements from somebody not involved in the industry, and NO action. adds up to ... a big goose egg.

fbazakos

my expectations are obviously a lot higher than yours. i'm not satisfied with low quality.

that makes a me a loser ? ooooooooookay ...

i don't even consider our communication back and forth an argument or discussion. it is more of a one way street, where you don't seem to take any time to process what I'm telling you.

soopa

your right... its not a discussion because YOURE NOT SAYING ANYTHING.


you apparently are the one not reading. look at what you quoted me as saying.

"but... like i already said... at the bandwidth numbers you claim... it is certainly possible... so there is obviously some other limiting factor... OR... you arent able to deliver the bandwidth you claim."

lol... i made my point pretty clear there.

either you are not delivering the bandwidth you CLAIM to be delivering with EVDO... OR... there is some other limiting factor for which you do not know.


hahahaha... you look soo pathetic in this thread. the only reason i even remembered it is because i just got an instant message from a random person LAUGHING AT YOU.


your cell related posts keep getting worse and worse. i think your running out of marketing mumbo jumbo because it was one thing when you were getting owned by siggy and ken but now me, who admittedly doesn't have anything more than consumer knowledge of the cell industry is making you look REAL STUPID.

soopa

how are my statements bold? at 2mbps just about every single mainstream video codec can deliver vga quality video. period.

pure and simple fact.

nandowong

fbazakos

we just talked about you at dinner.

i'm not sure what I can do to help you, other than to make you feel good.

so ... well done ... you made me look stupid ...

i don't know what I'm going to do ... some random person is laughing at me ... so punk kid in upstate new york thinks he understand what ballfield he's playing on ... i think i'm going to scooter myself.

fbazakos

it's the same damn thing as verizon's.

except, no presensce messaging, only five users on group calls.

but they offer more handset choices. well done, ken.

fbazakos

i just re-read this again. i'm laughing my ass of at 1:30am. way to go ... i'm pathetic .. ooooooooooooooooooooooooo. somebody laughing at me ... they must be better than me ... what am I going to do with my life.




ken/dave you guys should've come down to the bar with me after dinner ... dave i went to the place you guys recommended, there was a DJ there from Minneapolis that I knew.

but i couldn't enjoy myself because all i could think about was soopa on here making fun of me. hahahahaha. and somebody "random" too ... OMG.

adam, do I claim to know how to [insert what you are an expert in after 20 years on this planet] ? no ... but I do claim to know what I'm talking about with cellular wireless data? you bet. still want to step up to bat?

you and your random internet chatting friend have NO clue. but if you need to reply to feel better about yourself, go right ahead. i got nothing better to do than reply back.

:thumbsdn:

soopa

exactly why you keep replying.

haha... hellllll ya.

i never ever ever ever claimed to know much about the technicals of cellular service... in fact ive said it time and time again... including in the post you just quoted.

i think you might be dyslexic or something?


you don't know SHIT. you are no expert...

every single time youve tried to throw out buzzwords acting like you know something Ken & Siggy have smacked you back down to this planet...

then in this thread... you claim 2Mbps... a bandwidth for which is MORE than plenty room for high quality streaming video. Shit... RAW DVD is only 3-4mbps. lol


here is some of your quotes from this thread

<--- LOL DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT FRAME RATE OR RESOLUTION MEANS!??!?!

<- HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH. that makes much sense

<- first contradiction. if you can do 2 megabit range....... you can deliver high quality video. you can deliver video at the highest possible quality the screen could actually display at that bandwidth.

<- contradiction 2..... your bandwidth is 2mbps... but its the limiting factor? that doesnt add up.

<-- backpeddle number 1. regardless... even at 800kbps VERY VERY high quality video is attainable. thats faster then your standard cable internet

<--- hahahahah... of YOUR system eh?

<--- ANOTHER CONTRADICTION. So let me get this straight....... bandwidth is the limiting factor............ but not for you??!? hahaha

<-- hahahahahhahahahahah do you see a pattern here. dont walk backward too fast

<- haha... seriously man... your gonna fall if you keep backpeddling like that.

hahahaha... so here is where you realized you have NO FUCKING CLUE... get angry... and resort to name calling and geographical dick comparing.

<-- here is where you try to escape this conversation as fast as possible before any more people realize your a paper pushing fraud.


and the rest is just drunken dribble so i wont bother quoting it.

soopa

heh... interesting...

http://news.com.com/2100-1025_3-5109...l?tag=nefd_top

fbazakos

siggy actually made a good point last night about what makes you tick. i give him a lot of credit -- but perhaps because he's met you. i'm not going to quote him on here, he can say it if he wants. but it was after we loudly discussed this thread for about 30 minutes was able to explain myself to them. it sort of ended with a quiet lull, and a bunch of head nodding. i feel obligated to explain this all, but it took that long in person, to two mature people that were willing to accept what I was saying. i just don't know if it is worth it at all.

we all know you know nothing about this - i didn't need you to admit to it publically. you are looking for contradictions, mistakes, etc. when I am just trying to word things for you in a simple way so you can comprehend it. i put up some of the acronyms that I use on a daily basis and you balked at it. i just don't know what do with you.

now you are claiming i'm "dyslexic" "not an expert" "don't know my shit" -- basically calling me a fraud. ken and siggy are trying to understand what I'm saying. sure siggy tries to be humurous about it, and that's fine. ken definately is not involved in the technical side of things, but at least he is in the industry. so i've got those two personalities to cater to when I explain things, plus I've got to babysit you on top of it.

the fact of the matter is I live and breathe this stuff, and for some reason it bothers you that you don't understand. the first step for you here is to accept that I know this stuff. if this doesn't happen, you'll never accept my responses. i can only do this for a few things in life, like hunting, shooting, soccer. everything else i look for somebody like myself to HELP me.

i was going to offer my time to you again to start over from the beginning, and explain things to you one thing at a time. then perhaps you would realize why the services that you think are so simple, don't yet exist. but I don't think you're worth it. so i'm gonna give you a big and wait patiently for you to grow up.

soopa

more interesting

ATT is using EDGE to deliver video.....
"EDGE is designed to deliver data at rates up to 473.6 kbps"

yet Verizon supposedly has 2mbps bandwidth but is somehow limited by bandwidth??

soopa

fotis just can't admit he's wrong

soopa

http://news.com.com/2100-1039_3-5108897.html?tag=st_rn

"Sprint PCS and Verizon Wireless have deployed a technology from Qualcomm called CDMA20001xrtt, which usually operates at about 60kbps to 70kbps."

soopa

now youre quotes from before...



and again... the cnet quote...

soopa

exactly.

anyways....... so ken/siggy/anyone else with real knowledge what you think of this EDGE shit? whats the deal with it?

amisconception

soopa, hahaha man. much respeck

kensteele

It's part of the game. EDGE is slightly faster. Will be that way for awhile.....

mikeymobiles

This thread is bad ass...

fbazakos

you are so lost i just don't know where to begin.

i'll try hopefully this isn't too confusing.

EDGE technology does provide slightly higher throughput than 3G1XRTT. EDGE does about 200 kilobit bursts, typical throughput is 100-120 kb. 3G1XRTT does about 144/153 (depending on how you look at it -- probably shouldn't mention this because you won't get it even if I explain it) bursts, typical throughput is 80-110 kbps (now legally, sprint claims 50-70, verizon claims 60-80, all the markets that I have engineered hit at least 80, with minneapolis always getting 110, probably shouldn't mention that because, again, you won't get it even if I explain it).

All that aside (read: additionally) Verizon has delpoyed EVDO (which is publicly available in Washington DC, Baltimore, and San Diego for the time being) which provides typical through of 500-800 kb, with bursting into the 2 megabit range.

So if you can tolerate the video that can be streamed into the throughput provided by [insert technology of your choice here] then more power to you. I am arguing that you cannot. My perfect example is the Sprint TV service that barely puts out 1-2 frames per second of shitty quality video over their 1XRTT network.

What you don't understand is how the bandwidth is not static and always accessible, you may get 133 kb for .5 seconds, then 9.6 kb for 1.5 seconds ... which makes streaming hard. It is a function of how fast (if) the user is moving, the distance from the base station. Also, each technology (1XRTT, 1XEVDO, EDGE, GRPS) handles these things differently. I can explain all this to you. I can explain how they work in the real world today. This is what I do on a daily basis. I can tell you what the migration path will be for these networks for the next 5-10 years.

now is that clear enough for you??? you must've frustrated the heck out of your teachers in school. i re-read that twice, and it is so basic that I know you will understand it. so pick what you want to learn about, and I will teach you.

i'm gonna start calling you ken with all the press releases you are throwing up here.

boy if I had known you could be bought by sending you a new prototype phone, I would've had the whole ghetto of albany on verizon by now.

fbazakos

EDGE enables more efficient use of existing spectrum and is a much-needed technology enhancement, making higher data throughput possible. EDGE is still a 2.5G technology with a circuit-switched voice channel, so it will in time be superseded by WCDMA technology. But that may well be three to four years away. Deploying EDGE networks is thus a part of their time division multiple access (TDMA)-GPRS-WCDMA transition.

It does not help their voice capacity at all, either. It is a dead end technology, and a pitiful investment. It is faster than Sprint (and Verizon's) 1XRTT, but slower than Verizon's EVDO.

What more do you want to know? Want the migration path? I haven't explain that to you yet for CDMA. I recommend some advil and coffee if you want me to get into that ... that a few hours of pot-free time that you can dedicate to concetrate on my writing.

soopa

LOL... more cut & paste from white papers. You just told me everyting I already know by spending 5 minutes on www.3g.co.uk

Look how long it took you to study this... the logs show you reading the post you just quoted DAYS ago. haha


You keep saying im lost... yet you have not corrected anything I've said. Are you slow?

BTW... "pot-free" time? I'm no pothead junior. I'm the one that understands all this... you are the one who doesnt.

Your last two posts yet again contridict EVERYTHING You have said in previous posts.


Learn to be quiet when you don't know. Or admit you dont know.

fbazakos

I can't comment in this part of the board anymore, but I just wanted to personally thank you for providing about 15 minutes of laughter between myself, about 5 co-workers, and 2 vendors who I just showed this thread to. The good news is, you have 7 new people visiting this part of your website, the bad news is ... well ... I'm sure you can figure THAT out.

soopa

lol... riiiight more damage control. yet again failing to present any argument. would suck to be you...

nandowong

:r ofl:

Shawn S

Why not ???