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Apple vs Google: S**t Just Got Real!

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Old 03-02-2010, 05:34 PM
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Exclamation Apple vs Google: S**t Just Got Real!



Apple file a lawsuit against HTC today for 20 patent infringements but almost all of these cases of infringement have to do with the software which is Google's Android. This the latest -but biggest- in a series of conflicts these two companies have had over the past year or two. Anyone remember the Google Voice iPhone app fiasco of last summer in which the FCC had to get involved?


Apple has sued Google's phone manufacturer for infringing on 20 iPhone patents. Not so long ago, Apple and Google were a nice couple. Then, everything went to hell.

The romance began with the iPhone, even while we didn't know about it in 2006. Back then, Steve Jobs invited Google's CEO Eric Schmidt to his house, to sit at his table, and have vanilla-frosted cupcakes and tea together. It was instant love.

An Affair to Remember
They happily worked in the iPhone's 2007 launch. Google gave Apple their maps, their search, and their mail, and Apple gave Google the best spot in their new shiny device. Apple put YouTube into the iPhone and Google made YouTube to work nicely with QuickTime, moving all videos to the h.264 standard (so Apple could avoid that nasty Flash kid). Google even optimized their web apps for the iPhone, and Apple smiled.

And so they played in the new smartphone playground together and giggled at Yahoo and Microsoft and Adobe and everyone else. They were the coolest kids, they told everyone how happy they were, and everyone thought they were the perfect lovers.

The iPhone quickly became a huge success, positioning itself as the future of ubiquitous consumer-oriented computing. Just the kind that Google wants to control to deliver its highly targeted ads. Google noticed the success, and the relationship started to rupture. I can imagine the meeting between Eric, Sergey and Larry: "Whaaaa...? How did they...? Fuck, we need to get into this now." It was then that Google started to reveal its true face — and their plans for the little company they bought in 2005, helmed by the phone wiz Andy Rubin. They realized that they couldn't let Apple control the main window to the web. After all, it was their web, not Apple's.

Google presented Android, their own smartphone operating system made to imitate Apple's. Not only did they devote resources to create this, but they wanted to give it for free to every manufacturer and carrier. It didn't take much for Steve Jobs to realize that the romance was over. It was betrayal. Google was his new Microsoft. The real nemesis that could build a new dominant "Windows", and turn his early success with the iPhone into the new Mac underdog.

That was when all went to hell.

It wasn't an open war. At the beginning, it all happened behind curtains, like when Apple allegedly stopped multitouch on Android and Google complied, realizing that they might otherwise be stepping into a patent minefield. Like the one the just got into now, with HTC as the proxy.

Steve Jobs couldn't tie his tongue, however. Back in January 2008, he was already criticizing Google and Android, pointing out that it wasn't going to be good for anyone. It was the first knife shining in the open, but it wasn't the last one.

After that, executives at Apple have been pretty clear about what they think about Google, like when Tim Cook said that Google was still trying to catch up with the first iPhone or Jobs gave his blunt-as-bricks opinion on Google's "Don't Be Evil" mantra. "It's bullshit," he said, a sentiment now shared by many.

It almost feels like this is something personal for Steve Jobs, as if he believed that a fake-smiled Eric Schmidt sat at the Apple's board, eating his food and drinking his wine, while plotting to kidnap Apple's baby since the very beginning. It seems the feeling is mutual: Schmidt delivered his own snide against Jobs and his new baby recently, pooping on the iPad as nothing more than a big phone.

Knowing how things developed, it's surprising that Schmidt stayed on Apple's board for so long. He resigned on August 2009, just as the war started to go open, first with Google grabbing mobile advertising company AdMob from Apple's hands (which forced Apple to buying Quattro Wireless). Then with Apple pissing on Google's parade by stealing Lala, the music streaming service that Larry and Sergei wanted to have.

The love affair was definitely over, and the bitter separation started. Like gangrene, the hate started to spread to every aspect in the relations between the two companies. According to insiders, negotiating the terms for maps in the new iPhone OS and the iPad was a fierce battle, to the point in which Apple went and bought their own charting company at one point. Who knows if that move was part of their poker hand—like the rumors about Apple replacing Google search with Bing—or an actual desire to get fully independent from Google.

The true war, however, has started today, with the lawsuit against HTC. It names their Windows phones, but that's just a distracting maneuver. The core example in the lawsuit is Android, and that's where the real attack is. And by going against HTC, the weakest link in the chain, Apple is not only attacking Google. It's also giving a warning to every manufacturer out there: If you try to pull a Nexus Two for them, we will launch our missiles against you. Motorola—who confirmed they are working with Google—could be the next one in the list.

Jobs clearly knows that they are playing for the domination of the future of computing, the Next Big Thing. And he doesn't want this one to end like the Macintosh-Windows War. This time he has a huge lead, and he has the deep pockets to fight for it, whether that means new product development, strategic acquisitions or all-out legal battles. In the most recent Apple shareholder meeting, he clearly said this: They will use their huge mountain of cash to do everything necessary, every "bold move" needed to keep their lead, and have the whole enchilada for themselves.

There's no doubt that Jobs will use every single of Apple's 40 billion dollars to trump Google's plans, and keep their massive market share in the mobile device and applications world. But for that he will need a strong cloud structure and to get deep into the social aspect of the web. Of the latter, they got nothing. On the former, MobileMe is still a half-baked solution, and iWork.com beta has failed to gain any real traction. Maybe Apple's traditional enemy—Microsoft—would be able to help there. And maybe getting together with Facebook would slap Google where it hurts more.

On the other side, Google has the lead in the cloud, except for their failed social efforts, which are the target of jokes and extreme criticism. At the same time, while technically good, Android has failed to match the momentum of the iPhone. Android's app marketplace is still tiny compared to the App Store—and low quality too, by comparison. Apple has an easier time wooing app developers at this point, and that is a big advantage.

Overall, it seems like the two ex-lovers are in a technical tie, and are getting dirtier and bloodier by the day. Sometimes, love ends up like this.
http://gizmodo.com/5483662/how-apple...turned-to-hate



I think this will get very interesting to see how this plays out, this can have a HUGE effect on the future of mobile computing. At this point Apple NEEDS Google and Google kindof needs Apple but they're going at it. Apple relies on Google for their maps, search, youtube and email and if the those went away or went to inferior alternatives that'd be big blow for Apple to take while Google needs the exposure that the iPhone gives it since Android isn't as big however if Android takes off then they could always drop their services from the iPhone leaving Apple stranded. Plus google doesn't want to lose out on the mobile advertising dollars of the iPhone market.

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 03-02-2010 at 05:37 PM.
Old 03-02-2010, 05:36 PM
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:37 PM
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Cliffs?
Old 03-02-2010, 05:49 PM
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Apple says Google's Android is garbage
Google says teh iPad is teh suX0R
Google says that Apple's mother wears combat boots
Apple blocks the Google Voice App from iPhone
Apple says Google's "Don't be evil" motto is bullshit
Apple sues Google via HTC for patent infringement on iPhone patents
Apple and Google are going to fight after school by the playground and however wins may end up dominating in teh mobile computing space.
Old 03-02-2010, 05:59 PM
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^ty stunna.
Old 03-02-2010, 06:02 PM
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Apple goes to bed with M$ and uses Bing in the future.

Google goes it alone.
Old 03-02-2010, 06:03 PM
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companies have legal battles over patents all the time, nothing ever really comes from most.

i'd be suprised to see any real repercussions
Old 03-02-2010, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
At this point Apple NEEDS Google and Google kindof needs Apple but they're going at it. Apple relies on Google for their maps, search, youtube and email and if the those went away or went to inferior alternatives that'd be big blow for Apple to take...

But why does Apple really need google? Maps, search, youtube, etc... I can get via the iPhone browser if need be, the interface might not be as nice, but it wouldn't have much of a measurable effect on the iPhone experience. No doubt Bing and MS would pay a boat load to get google's place.

I hope they go at it, competition breeds innovation.
Old 03-02-2010, 06:21 PM
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lol. I made that gif.
Old 03-02-2010, 06:23 PM
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I just googled in my Ipad....
Old 03-02-2010, 06:23 PM
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Remember when the iPhone was first announced and Apple said that you can't develop native apps for it you can only develop web apps that work in safari. The crowd died, there was outrage Apple had just slapped their developers in teh face! For the first year pre-app store there was little development for web apps, I literally can't think of a single one at all of any significance. Then Apple released an SDK that gave developers access to a lot of the tools that apple used to make native apps and over the past two version gave them access to more of the hardware to create better apps. These are things you don't get with a web browser, access to the compass, accelerometer, dock connector, etc. Nothing in HTML 5 covers the iPhone's dock connector.

What makes the iPhone great is the interface. Loosing the great map application and doing it through the mobile browser would suck! When the iPhone came out it didn't really do anything except great mobile internet and multitouch that hadn't been done before in fact it didn't do a lot of things that others did. But what it did it did better than anyone else cause of it's interface. They will NEVER let maps/youtube be done through a web browser.

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 03-02-2010 at 06:27 PM.
Old 03-02-2010, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hdcolumbus


lol. I made that gif.
I call
Old 03-02-2010, 06:30 PM
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TY Doucher for the cliffs.

Which patents are they contesting?
Old 03-02-2010, 06:33 PM
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They're pretty boring to read but I guess you can look at the pics. Even those are boring but they're pretty broad patents. Ones that point out the flaws in our USPTO for ever awarding such broad patents. For a summarized version see here:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/a...reakdown/?s=t5

For a more detailed look see here:
http://gizmodo.com/5483689/the-apple...strated-guide/
Old 03-02-2010, 06:36 PM
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Oddly enough there's no multi-touch patents mentioned.
Old 03-02-2010, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Oddly enough there's no multi-touch patents mentioned.
The Droid doesn't have it

I would guess maybe the touch keypad..?
Old 03-02-2010, 06:45 PM
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^It's getting it very soon. Moto already announced it was coming. I like that google decided to add multi-touch to the Nexus One a couple days after it was reported that Jobs called Google's "dont be evil" motto bullshit. The HTC Sense UI has multi-touch.

The EU version of the Droid (Milestone) and Nexus one have always had multi-touch but it was intentionally disabled in the US version but google never explained why. It was believed to be a "gentelman's agreement" between Apple and Google but then when shit started being talked the deal was over.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/08/m...ludes-multito/

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Old 03-02-2010, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
Cliffs?
some company that has nothing to do with our blackberry is suing another that doesnt have anything to do with our blackberry
Old 03-02-2010, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
What makes the iPhone great is the interface. Loosing the great map application and doing it through the mobile browser would suck! When the iPhone came out it didn't really do anything except great mobile internet and multitouch that hadn't been done before in fact it didn't do a lot of things that others did. But what it did it did better than anyone else cause of it's interface. They will NEVER let maps/youtube be done through a web browser.

With some of the brightest minds and $40 billion in cash, I am sure they could overcome any of those issues, or use Bing maps which MS would pay apple to use and is pretty damn good on it's own.
Old 03-02-2010, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MWalsh9152
some company that has nothing to do with our blackberry is suing another that doesnt have anything to do with our blackberry


OK, move along BB users. Nothing to see here...
Old 03-02-2010, 07:24 PM
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They'd go bing before going to the browser. But even bing maps is a step back since it's street view isn't anywhere near as widely available.

Even if Apple is smart people they can't just create an infrastructure and cloud computing platform over night. In regards to cloud computing Apple is years behind Google and MS and social networking they're non existent hence why they're relying on partners to cover the bases. Apple has nothing to compete with a lot of Google's services cause it's not their forte and if Apple wanted to make their own instead of using Google they'd be years behind so they're best option is to use Google or hope some competitor comes along (mainly MS) to compete.
Old 03-02-2010, 07:40 PM
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Google should just make it so that none of their stuff worked on Mac products
Old 03-02-2010, 07:44 PM
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Apple using MS's search engine on their #1 product... never thought I'd see the day
Old 03-02-2010, 07:45 PM
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So the outcome of this should result in better phones.
Old 03-02-2010, 07:52 PM
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Apple has issues with trying to control too much. Sony has seen the outcome of this. It generally does not end well for the company or the consumer.
Old 03-02-2010, 08:40 PM
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For those that might've been wondering if this suit was for HTC Sense UI it's not cause they're claiming the Nexus One as an offending phone and the Nexus One aka Google Phone has no HTC tweaks and runs pure Android 2.1

A number of HTC-made phones are included as exhibits in Apple's legal claims filed with the U.S. International Trade Commission Tuesday. The phones in question include both Windows Mobile and Google Android handsets. They are:
Nexus One
Touch Pro
Touch Diamond
Touch Pro2
Tilt II
Pure
Imagio
Dream
myTouch 3G
Hero
HD2
Droid Eris.

The complaint even goes as far as to specifically distinguish between Android and non-Android handsets, suggesting Google's mobile operating system plays a part in the alleged patent infringement. While Android-based phones are labeled "Accused HTC Android Products" in the suit, phones that run on Windows Mobile are given the label "Accused HTC DSP products," referring to the digital signal processing hardware decoders found in those devices.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ainst_htc.html

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 03-02-2010 at 08:43 PM.
Old 03-02-2010, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
They're pretty boring to read but I guess you can look at the pics. Even those are boring but they're pretty broad patents. Ones that point out the flaws in our USPTO for ever awarding such broad patents. For a summarized version see here:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/a...reakdown/?s=t5

For a more detailed look see here:
http://gizmodo.com/5483689/the-apple...strated-guide/
Good lord. How'd you like to get called for jury duty on this one.
Old 03-02-2010, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Billiam
Good lord. How'd you like to get called for jury duty on this one.
Old 03-02-2010, 09:59 PM
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
Apple has issues with trying to control too much. Sony has seen the outcome of this. It generally does not end well for the company or the consumer.
Pretty freakin lame of them and of the US patent office to even allow such broad patents to even exist.
Old 03-03-2010, 09:09 AM
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patent my ass, lol. This will never hold up in court.
Old 03-03-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Apple says Google's Android is garbage
Google says teh iPad is teh suX0R
Google says that Apple's mother wears combat boots
Apple blocks the Google Voice App from iPhone
Apple says Google's "Don't be evil" motto is bullshit
Apple sues Google via HTC for patent infringement on iPhone patents
Apple and Google are going to fight after school by the playground and however wins may end up dominating in teh mobile computing space.
Old 03-03-2010, 09:57 AM
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in will smith voice: aw hell no!
Old 03-03-2010, 09:57 AM
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Don't they have a lawsuit with Nokia to contend with as well?
Old 03-03-2010, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
Cliffs?
x2

Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Apple says Google's Android is garbage
Google says teh iPad is teh suX0R
Google says that Apple's mother wears combat boots
Apple blocks the Google Voice App from iPhone
Apple says Google's "Don't be evil" motto is bullshit
Apple sues Google via HTC for patent infringement on iPhone patents
Apple and Google are going to fight after school by the playground and however wins may end up dominating in teh mobile computing space.
u da man
Old 03-03-2010, 12:30 PM
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Yes they are being sued by Nokia and in turn Apple countersued them


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DU...layer_embedded
Old 03-03-2010, 01:22 PM
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Question for any of our legal folks that happen to see this. How can the 'validity' of a patent come into play for an infringement case? If A sues B for infringement, can B actually mount a defense based on "you can't sue me because the patent isn't valid in the first place"? I've been thinking about this and I can only come up with a few possibilities.

a) Challenging the validity of a patent is an entirely separate legal action and cannot be used as the basis of a defense in an infringement case.

b) The plaintiff in the infringement case can win, but the decision is conditional on the outcome of a formal legal challenge of the patent to follow at a later time.

c) The defendant in the infringement case can win, but the patent's "invalid" status is only relative to the infringement case.
Old 03-03-2010, 01:41 PM
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Yes you can challenge the a patent and have it overturned. I would say that the defense can say these patents suck which will then make Apple have to prove the validity of said patents. If that holds up barring some lengthy appeal process then the case can resume with all or part of the original patents in play. In the case that all of Apple's patents are thrown out and they lose the appeal process then I'd assume it'd be case dismissed.

I'm not a lawyer but I think that's how it goes.
Old 03-03-2010, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Billiam
Good lord. How'd you like to get called for jury duty on this one.
Crap, I just got a jury summons.
Old 03-03-2010, 01:53 PM
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HTC is hiring!



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