Tiger Woods, I think he's finally tasted enough of that supermodel, now back to GOLF!
#41
Originally Posted by mantis23
Wow, the Mickelson / DiMarco fans are getting aggressive.
Its only a game.
Its only a game.
#42
That 18th hole for DiMarco the first time around was close, ball had too much pace, otherwise tournament coulda been over.
16th hole was tiger back to his old form again, simply magical.
16th hole was tiger back to his old form again, simply magical.
#43
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
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From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted by TLover
If someone doesn't like Tiger, that's cool. But to say Tiger is the worst thing that happened to golf is and just plain wrong. You don't have to like Tiger, but you can't deny that he's made the sport more popular than it has ever been.
or to say he does blow
#48
Originally Posted by djmikel
http://mastersvideo.onstreammedia.co...ex_time=609719
Here's the shot. Still gives me chills to watch it. Amazing that one golf tournament can continue to generate so many memorable moments.
(be patient, it takes some time to load)
Here's the shot. Still gives me chills to watch it. Amazing that one golf tournament can continue to generate so many memorable moments.
(be patient, it takes some time to load)
Wow, awesome shot. I used to think Tiger was a phony, a person with alot of beginner's luck, but man he has proved himself to so many people over the years. The one thing I hate about him is that he cries too much
#53
Ok, I feel I might be in the best position to shed some light on this subject.
I have met Tiger several times throughout the years. Starting with Winged foot in '97 and most recently @ Shinnecock this past summer.
Also, I have observed his attitude up close and to other players.
First of all, he has gotten much better. When I first met him you could tell he was an asshole, arrogant, and too serious. But he was 22 years old. You throw any 22 year old in that spotlight and talk about him like he is a God to the sport in which he plays, and he is going to be like that.
Speaking to him briefly on the range this past US Open, I noticed such a change. He is still very serious, and still has to be somewhat of an asshole. But he knows how to do all that in a joking matter. He has learned how to deal with being quite possibly the most recognizable person in the World of Sports. I think a lot has to do with Steve...a lot of the things Tiger was taking care of by "being an asshole" in the past, Steve (his caddie) now does. He does a lot of crowd control, that helps Tiger not having to deal with it all.
Now on a level with other golfers. My friend Tom (Lehman) and him have had their little battles as of recent. But its more of Tiger backing up his friend, which I feel anyone would do. When Tom was voted Ryder Cup Captain this past December, I think Tiger without thinking about what he was saying...said that It should have been Mark O'Meara. Mark is Tiger's neighbor and closest friend on tour, so yes he shouldn't have said this...but he was just trying to back up his friend, and the media as usual took it too far. I was with Tom and Tiger on the range in San Diego when they had a breif little discussion about it. And the general consenus was "lets just win the Ryder Cup next year, and forget whatever was said" This is something I wouldn't expect hearing from Tiger or Tiger particpating in say 4 years ago.
Bottom Line, no one knows how rough it is on Tiger to deal with all the shit. Actors always complain they have a tough time dealing with their fans...they don't even have it close to as bad as Tiger. That shit gets distracting, even when I have caddied in Tour events it would throw me off.
As far as what Tiger has done for the game...He Doubled purses. He opened the game up for millions of hackers...he raised fees at country clubs, he made kids want to play. He did for Golf what MJ did for basketball. That simple.
On a personal level, I really didn't like Tiger much, after the first few times I met him. This year at Shinnecock, after talking to him on the range...going through a few swing thoughts. I haven't turned to a "fan" of the guy, but I don't have anything against him.
I have met Tiger several times throughout the years. Starting with Winged foot in '97 and most recently @ Shinnecock this past summer.
Also, I have observed his attitude up close and to other players.
First of all, he has gotten much better. When I first met him you could tell he was an asshole, arrogant, and too serious. But he was 22 years old. You throw any 22 year old in that spotlight and talk about him like he is a God to the sport in which he plays, and he is going to be like that.
Speaking to him briefly on the range this past US Open, I noticed such a change. He is still very serious, and still has to be somewhat of an asshole. But he knows how to do all that in a joking matter. He has learned how to deal with being quite possibly the most recognizable person in the World of Sports. I think a lot has to do with Steve...a lot of the things Tiger was taking care of by "being an asshole" in the past, Steve (his caddie) now does. He does a lot of crowd control, that helps Tiger not having to deal with it all.
Now on a level with other golfers. My friend Tom (Lehman) and him have had their little battles as of recent. But its more of Tiger backing up his friend, which I feel anyone would do. When Tom was voted Ryder Cup Captain this past December, I think Tiger without thinking about what he was saying...said that It should have been Mark O'Meara. Mark is Tiger's neighbor and closest friend on tour, so yes he shouldn't have said this...but he was just trying to back up his friend, and the media as usual took it too far. I was with Tom and Tiger on the range in San Diego when they had a breif little discussion about it. And the general consenus was "lets just win the Ryder Cup next year, and forget whatever was said" This is something I wouldn't expect hearing from Tiger or Tiger particpating in say 4 years ago.
Bottom Line, no one knows how rough it is on Tiger to deal with all the shit. Actors always complain they have a tough time dealing with their fans...they don't even have it close to as bad as Tiger. That shit gets distracting, even when I have caddied in Tour events it would throw me off.
As far as what Tiger has done for the game...He Doubled purses. He opened the game up for millions of hackers...he raised fees at country clubs, he made kids want to play. He did for Golf what MJ did for basketball. That simple.
On a personal level, I really didn't like Tiger much, after the first few times I met him. This year at Shinnecock, after talking to him on the range...going through a few swing thoughts. I haven't turned to a "fan" of the guy, but I don't have anything against him.
Last edited by pgatour1; 04-11-2005 at 01:23 PM.
#55
Originally Posted by TLover
Care to back that up?
1) He snorts... Tommy Biershank (from Spartanburg, SOUTH CAROLINA) plays on the Nationwide Tour and has told me personally about Tiger's and Elin's habits. He's been in the presence of such and has revealed such.
2) Tiger curses like a sailor. This is bad for the kids who come to the tournaments. TV edits more of his comments than you'll even believe.
3) Building on comment #2, at the Wachovia championship last year, I personally heard Tiger tell a 7 year old kid "fuck-you" when asking for an autograph, and he walked another 50 yards to give autographs to some 20 something year old girls.
4) Every other PGA player can play with gallery distractions. At the Wachovia Championship last year, Tiger has his person guards to "knock-out" anyone walking within 50 feet of him. The have to suck-up their assholes if they are within an earshot.
Screw Tiger.
#57
Originally Posted by Professor
O.K. He's a great golfer, but the worst thing to happen to professional golf. Here's why:
1) He snorts... Tommy Biershank (from Spartanburg, SOUTH CAROLINA) plays on the Nationwide Tour and has told me personally about Tiger's and Elin's habits. He's been in the presence of such and has revealed such.
2) Tiger curses like a sailor. This is bad for the kids who come to the tournaments. TV edits more of his comments than you'll even believe.
3) Building on comment #2, at the Wachovia championship last year, I personally heard Tiger tell a 7 year old kid "fuck-you" when asking for an autograph, and he walked another 50 yards to give autographs to some 20 something year old girls.
4) Every other PGA player can play with gallery distractions. At the Wachovia Championship last year, Tiger has his person guards to "knock-out" anyone walking within 50 feet of him. The have to suck-up their assholes if they are within an earshot.
Screw Tiger.
1) He snorts... Tommy Biershank (from Spartanburg, SOUTH CAROLINA) plays on the Nationwide Tour and has told me personally about Tiger's and Elin's habits. He's been in the presence of such and has revealed such.
2) Tiger curses like a sailor. This is bad for the kids who come to the tournaments. TV edits more of his comments than you'll even believe.
3) Building on comment #2, at the Wachovia championship last year, I personally heard Tiger tell a 7 year old kid "fuck-you" when asking for an autograph, and he walked another 50 yards to give autographs to some 20 something year old girls.
4) Every other PGA player can play with gallery distractions. At the Wachovia Championship last year, Tiger has his person guards to "knock-out" anyone walking within 50 feet of him. The have to suck-up their assholes if they are within an earshot.
Screw Tiger.
1. BS
2. So what.
3. BS
4. No other golfer has galleries that are as big as Tiger's, so he's going to encounter more distractions and is going to have to make more of an effort to keep the gallery quiet.
#58
Originally Posted by Professor
O.K. He's a great golfer, but the worst thing to happen to professional golf. Here's why:
1) He snorts... Tommy Biershank (from Spartanburg, SOUTH CAROLINA) plays on the Nationwide Tour and has told me personally about Tiger's and Elin's habits. He's been in the presence of such and has revealed such.
2) Tiger curses like a sailor. This is bad for the kids who come to the tournaments. TV edits more of his comments than you'll even believe.
3) Building on comment #2, at the Wachovia championship last year, I personally heard Tiger tell a 7 year old kid "fuck-you" when asking for an autograph, and he walked another 50 yards to give autographs to some 20 something year old girls.
4) Every other PGA player can play with gallery distractions. At the Wachovia Championship last year, Tiger has his person guards to "knock-out" anyone walking within 50 feet of him. The have to suck-up their assholes if they are within an earshot.
Screw Tiger.
1) He snorts... Tommy Biershank (from Spartanburg, SOUTH CAROLINA) plays on the Nationwide Tour and has told me personally about Tiger's and Elin's habits. He's been in the presence of such and has revealed such.
2) Tiger curses like a sailor. This is bad for the kids who come to the tournaments. TV edits more of his comments than you'll even believe.
3) Building on comment #2, at the Wachovia championship last year, I personally heard Tiger tell a 7 year old kid "fuck-you" when asking for an autograph, and he walked another 50 yards to give autographs to some 20 something year old girls.
4) Every other PGA player can play with gallery distractions. At the Wachovia Championship last year, Tiger has his person guards to "knock-out" anyone walking within 50 feet of him. The have to suck-up their assholes if they are within an earshot.
Screw Tiger.
As far as cursing, yes the TV edits out a lot...but he isn't alone in this category. I have even caught myself cursing on TV when all I was doing was caddying in a Nationwide Tour event. Pat Perez, Daly, Jesper, Lickliter...I mean the list goes on of guys that are guilty of this.
He has to have his galleries pushed back, just because there are so many people that can be so distracting. Tigers fans aren't the exactly a shining example of "golf etiquette" so they have to be a little "rougher" with Tiger's gallery.
Yes, he was an asshole. still is, but for what he has to deal with...I mean, well I can't comment because I don't know if I'd do it any better.
#60
Originally Posted by TLover
1. BS
2. So what.
3. BS
4. No other golfer has galleries that are as big as Tiger's, so he's going to encounter more distractions and is going to have to make more of an effort to keep the gallery quiet.
2. So what.
3. BS
4. No other golfer has galleries that are as big as Tiger's, so he's going to encounter more distractions and is going to have to make more of an effort to keep the gallery quiet.
#2. When you are at the top of the game, you have a duty to be a role model.
#3. No BS... if he were 15 feet closer, I'd slapped his fucking mouth and happily spent my time in the Charlotte, Mecklenburg County jail.
#4. TV ratings will always create perfect conditions for Tiger. Let him drag his ass around 18 on a course without grass and railroad ties around greens, and let's see how his does.
Last edited by Professor; 04-11-2005 at 01:45 PM.
#61
Originally Posted by Professor
#2. When you are at the top of the game, you have a duty to be a role model.
#62
Originally Posted by TLover
Puleeze. Like Michael Jordan never cursed during a game? People who expect athletes or anybody else in the spotlight to be perfect need a heavy dose of reality.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
#63
Originally Posted by Professor
Yeah, but the problem with this SOB is that it is NOT ONLY during the game. Jack Nicklaus is cool on and off the course and 10 times the shot-maker Tiger will ever be.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
#64
Originally Posted by TLover
I still don't see how Tiger is the worst thing that's happened to golf. You don't like him, that's fine. You don't think he's a good role model, fine. But you can't deny he's changed the sport, and turned it into must-see TV.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
#65
Originally Posted by Professor
If you ever have swung a club, then you know it isn't a sport, but a gentlemen's game... not made for god-damned "must-see" TV. That's why Augusta National only gives 4 minutes of commercials each hour. They don't try to "whore" the sport.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
^^These are the people that keep me away from golf. The people who believe it should be exclusive. That it shouldn't appeal to the masses. That it should only be played by people who are deemed exceptional by a subjective base of criteria. A decision that is handed down only by people who have already been deemed as "acceptable golfers" themselves.
These people are
#66
Senior Moderator
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Originally Posted by Professor
If you ever have swung a club, then you know it isn't a sport, but a gentlemen's game... not made for god-damned "must-see" TV. That's why Augusta National only gives 4 minutes of commercials each hour. They don't try to "whore" the sport.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
Welcome to the 21st century my friend. You've been watching Bagger Vance too many times.
#67
Originally Posted by Professor
If you ever have swung a club, then you know it isn't a sport, but a gentlemen's game... not made for god-damned "must-see" TV. That's why Augusta National only gives 4 minutes of commercials each hour. They don't try to "whore" the sport.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
#68
Originally Posted by TLover
I have swung a golf club, thank you very much. And I probably wouldn't have if it weren't for Tiger, and many others I'm sure credit Tiger for introducing them to the game. And "Gentlemen's game"? Please. If it weren't for Tiger, golf would be what's it's always been: an all-white, noninclusive sport.
thats where I have to comment...Tiger is not the only non-white guy on tour. adn not even close to the first in history. This isn't an issue of color or ethnicty...this is of age, maturity, and being in a spotlight.
#69
Originally Posted by Professor
If you ever have swung a club, then you know it isn't a sport, but a gentlemen's game... not made for god-damned "must-see" TV. That's why Augusta National only gives 4 minutes of commercials each hour. They don't try to "whore" the sport.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
Attitudes like yours will turn this game into some sort of freakish anomaly.
There is a point on Wednesday of Masters week when time stops at Augusta National Golf Club. The area inside the gates steering patrons toward the first fairway more resembles Times Square on New Year's Eve than it does a golf tournament. The crush of peoplemakes movement a virtual impossibility, a situation complicated by the line that snakes out of the merchandise pavilion to the right of the main gate, loops around itself and snarls movement in any direction. The Masters is not only the most-watched golf tournament on television, it is also one of the best-attended -- and everyone has a credit card.
This helps explain why the Masters can go commercial-free and not think twice about it. For the second straight year, the tournament has released sponsors from their contractual obligations rather than expose them to possible protests stemming from Augusta National's lack of female members. Though Martha Burk's name didn't consume anywhere near as much ink in the past year as it did in the months leading up to the 2003 Masters, her National Council of Women's Organizations still casts an ominous shadow over Bobby Jones' treasure.
But Augusta National is a place of power, principle and considerable wealth. Even without U.S. television rights fees, which it gave up when letting go of its sponsors, the Masters still generates nearly $44 million in revenue and still has more than $6 million left over after its expenses, according to a Golf Digest analysis.
Following its practice of not commenting on what it calls private club matters, Augusta National did not respond to these revenue and expenditure numbers. But there is no question the club has come a long way since the first 40 years of its tournament, when Jones had to pass a hat among members to cover the cost of the Masters. "We really struggled up into the '70s financially," Augusta National chairman Hootie Johnson told Golf Digest last year. "Fortunately the club got into the black, and we've been able to continue to cover our expenses and keep our golf course and tournament facilities in first-rate condition. ... We've been able to strive for perfection, but at the same time we've been blessed not to have to yield to commercialism."
To arrive at our estimated Masters financials, we started at the front gates. Though the club does not announce attendance figures, people close to the club figure that about 35,000 ticket-holders attend the Masters each of the four days of competition and about 45,000 are allowed inside on each of the three practice days. This year, the club raised ticket prices for the third time since 1995. A four-day badge for the April 8-11 event climbed from $125 to $175 -- still about half the cost of a seven-day pass for the U.S. Open or the PGA Championship. Practice badges for Monday and Tuesday increased from $21 to $31, and the Wednesday admission jumped from $26 to $36.
This helps explain why the Masters can go commercial-free and not think twice about it. For the second straight year, the tournament has released sponsors from their contractual obligations rather than expose them to possible protests stemming from Augusta National's lack of female members. Though Martha Burk's name didn't consume anywhere near as much ink in the past year as it did in the months leading up to the 2003 Masters, her National Council of Women's Organizations still casts an ominous shadow over Bobby Jones' treasure.
But Augusta National is a place of power, principle and considerable wealth. Even without U.S. television rights fees, which it gave up when letting go of its sponsors, the Masters still generates nearly $44 million in revenue and still has more than $6 million left over after its expenses, according to a Golf Digest analysis.
Following its practice of not commenting on what it calls private club matters, Augusta National did not respond to these revenue and expenditure numbers. But there is no question the club has come a long way since the first 40 years of its tournament, when Jones had to pass a hat among members to cover the cost of the Masters. "We really struggled up into the '70s financially," Augusta National chairman Hootie Johnson told Golf Digest last year. "Fortunately the club got into the black, and we've been able to continue to cover our expenses and keep our golf course and tournament facilities in first-rate condition. ... We've been able to strive for perfection, but at the same time we've been blessed not to have to yield to commercialism."
To arrive at our estimated Masters financials, we started at the front gates. Though the club does not announce attendance figures, people close to the club figure that about 35,000 ticket-holders attend the Masters each of the four days of competition and about 45,000 are allowed inside on each of the three practice days. This year, the club raised ticket prices for the third time since 1995. A four-day badge for the April 8-11 event climbed from $125 to $175 -- still about half the cost of a seven-day pass for the U.S. Open or the PGA Championship. Practice badges for Monday and Tuesday increased from $21 to $31, and the Wednesday admission jumped from $26 to $36.
#70
Originally Posted by pgatour1
thats where I have to comment...Tiger is not the only non-white guy on tour. adn not even close to the first in history. This isn't an issue of color or ethnicty...this is of age, maturity, and being in a spotlight.
#71
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
Likes: 979
From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted by pgatour1
thats where I have to comment...Tiger is not the only non-white guy on tour. adn not even close to the first in history. This isn't an issue of color or ethnicty...this is of age, maturity, and being in a spotlight.
#72
Originally Posted by Professor
Yeah, but the problem with this SOB is that it is NOT ONLY during the game. Jack Nicklaus is cool on and off the course and 10 times the shot-maker Tiger will ever be.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
1) Nicklaus is an asshole. Met him many times and each time I walked away thinking he might be the greatest player ever, but as for giving back to the game, Palmer>Nicklaus.
2) Great players adjust to whatever they have. Old Tom Morris, Bobby Jones, and early Jack Nicklaus would have as much trouble adjusting to the new equipment as Tiger would to the old.
3) I seriously disagree about the shotmaker comment. Ben Hogan MIGHT be the best shotmaker of all time, but Jack over Tiger, doubtful. Jack himself constantly admits that Tiger is a much better player than he was.
#73
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
Likes: 979
From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted by Professor
Yeah, but the problem with this SOB is that it is NOT ONLY during the game. Jack Nicklaus is cool on and off the course and 10 times the shot-maker Tiger will ever be.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
Let's see Tiger round St. Andrews with a gutta percha without opening his pie-hole.
Um, Jack is far from cool on and off the course
Now Palmer is a stand up guy, but he isn't perfect either
#74
Originally Posted by TLover
Yes, but Tiger introduced the sport to minorities like no other minority golfer.
true, and as long as those minorities keep their poor asses on the public courses...I'm ok with that.
jk
I had to say it
#75
Originally Posted by TLover
Yes, but Tiger introduced the sport to minorities like no other minority golfer.
#76
The general feeling on Tour, talking to guys I play with out there. and from what I hear around.
No one currently alive has more natural skill than Tiger.
No one is more consistant than Vijay
You cannot compare Tiger and modern golfers to golfers of the old days. The game was played MUCH differently. Hogan, Sneed, Nelson...these guys had possibly the most textbook swings in the history of the game. Their errant shots were still in the fairway.
But none of these guys swung the club 130mph...When Vijay, Tiger, Love, Mickelson miss the ball by the smallest of fractions, that ball is going wayward.
No one currently alive has more natural skill than Tiger.
No one is more consistant than Vijay
You cannot compare Tiger and modern golfers to golfers of the old days. The game was played MUCH differently. Hogan, Sneed, Nelson...these guys had possibly the most textbook swings in the history of the game. Their errant shots were still in the fairway.
But none of these guys swung the club 130mph...When Vijay, Tiger, Love, Mickelson miss the ball by the smallest of fractions, that ball is going wayward.
#77
Originally Posted by TLover
I have swung a golf club, thank you very much. And I probably wouldn't have if it weren't for Tiger, and many others I'm sure credit Tiger for introducing them to the game. And "Gentlemen's game"? Please. If it weren't for Tiger, golf would be what's it's always been: an all-white, noninclusive sport.
I'm talking about the made-for-tv courses... manicured greens, $500 drivers, appearence fees, etc. The European Tour still has flavors of old, and that's why they spank our booties in the Ryder Cups.
Tiger brought commercialism which ruined the intergrity of the game. Along with his personality, that makes him bad for pro golf.
#78
Tiger & Vijay are dominating the game
like Jack & Arnie
Like Hogan & Sneed & Hagen
To compare them to each other would be foolish.
To say these guys didn't change golf for their error would be stupid.
Also everyone forgets the LEVEL of excellence out there right now. Look at the Top 20 in the world...there is really no difference between any of them. Goosen, Els, Mickelson, DiMarco, Toms. There was no competition like this 50 years ago. This is not because of Tiger...but the level in which they have been forced to play is because of Tiger.
like Jack & Arnie
Like Hogan & Sneed & Hagen
To compare them to each other would be foolish.
To say these guys didn't change golf for their error would be stupid.
Also everyone forgets the LEVEL of excellence out there right now. Look at the Top 20 in the world...there is really no difference between any of them. Goosen, Els, Mickelson, DiMarco, Toms. There was no competition like this 50 years ago. This is not because of Tiger...but the level in which they have been forced to play is because of Tiger.
#79
Originally Posted by Professor
I never brought race into the conversation or exclusiveness. The more the better. I take offense to that statement because Lee Elder did tremendous things for the game before Tiger was an itch in his daddy's pants. What about Chi-Chi R? Gary Player stood up to segregation in South Africa long before it was popular. And one day, Michele Wie will tame Amen corner.
I'm talking about the made-for-tv courses... manicured greens, $500 drivers, appearence fees, etc. The European Tour still has flavors of old, and that's why they spank our booties in the Ryder Cups.
Tiger brought commercialism which ruined the intergrity of the game. Along with his personality, that makes him bad for pro golf.
I'm talking about the made-for-tv courses... manicured greens, $500 drivers, appearence fees, etc. The European Tour still has flavors of old, and that's why they spank our booties in the Ryder Cups.
Tiger brought commercialism which ruined the intergrity of the game. Along with his personality, that makes him bad for pro golf.
#80
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted by pgatour1
You cannot compare Tiger and modern golfers to golfers of the old days. The game was played MUCH differently. Hogan, Sneed, Nelson...these guys had possibly the most textbook swings in the history of the game. Their errant shots were still in the fairway.
Same thing I say when people try to compare Lebron to Bird, Magic, MJ