MLB: Barry Bonds Steroids Saga
05-08-2006, 06:03 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by mamboking
Don't they have on sworn testimony from his trainer and his ex-girlfriend?
05-08-2006, 06:47 PM
#82
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by bgsm1th
05-08-2006, 07:20 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by JJ4Short
You guys should thank Bonds...who the fuck cares about MLB anymore? What about Mc Guire and his giant ass and Sosa...Shit I am sure they have all doped up but they brought viewers in and bottome line thats all they care about.
05-08-2006, 07:44 PM
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This whole steroid thing is a joke
As of right now, Bonds should be thought of as innocent cause they he has never failed a drug test nor do they have any other concrete evidence. I'm so tired of hearing about it. This is nothing more than character assassination. Until there's PROOF to say otherwise, Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player of our time. Choke on that.
Originally Posted by Yumchah
Yeah, was about to post that in the MLB thread. 
Anyhoo...
on the cheater's reaction. The game doesn't need him and I hope somehow someway he does not break Ruth and Aaron's HR records.
Anyhoo...
on the cheater's reaction. The game doesn't need him and I hope somehow someway he does not break Ruth and Aaron's HR records.
05-08-2006, 08:11 PM
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Everyone who is saying "he's never failed a drug test" etc... sounds kinda naive.
I'm sure you guys are aware that almost if not all of the stuff he's "allegedly" taken can be masked and is pretty much rendered undetectable.
The guy has money, trainers, and a freakin laboratory at his disposal. I'm not really surprised that his tests are clean.
That's why attention is being given to other people's claims and statements, as well as the physical evidence (the size of his body, head). It's kinda hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has an offensive explosion in his late 30s and puts out astronomical, unheard of numbers all of a sudden while looking 100 pounds of muscle heavier.
He calls it proper training and nutrition; the general sporting public calls it juice.
I'm sure you guys are aware that almost if not all of the stuff he's "allegedly" taken can be masked and is pretty much rendered undetectable.
The guy has money, trainers, and a freakin laboratory at his disposal. I'm not really surprised that his tests are clean.
That's why attention is being given to other people's claims and statements, as well as the physical evidence (the size of his body, head). It's kinda hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has an offensive explosion in his late 30s and puts out astronomical, unheard of numbers all of a sudden while looking 100 pounds of muscle heavier.
He calls it proper training and nutrition; the general sporting public calls it juice.
05-08-2006, 08:25 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by GOOSE
Everyone who is saying "he's never failed a drug test" etc... sounds kinda naive.
I'm sure you guys are aware that almost if not all of the stuff he's "allegedly" taken can be masked and is pretty much rendered undetectable.
The guy has money, trainers, and a freakin laboratory at his disposal. I'm not really surprised that his tests are clean.
That's why attention is being given to other people's claims and statements, as well as the physical evidence (the size of his body, head). It's kinda hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has an offensive explosion in his late 30s and puts out astronomical, unheard of numbers all of a sudden while looking 100 pounds of muscle heavier.
He calls it proper training and nutrition; the general sporting public calls it juice.
I'm sure you guys are aware that almost if not all of the stuff he's "allegedly" taken can be masked and is pretty much rendered undetectable.
The guy has money, trainers, and a freakin laboratory at his disposal. I'm not really surprised that his tests are clean.
That's why attention is being given to other people's claims and statements, as well as the physical evidence (the size of his body, head). It's kinda hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has an offensive explosion in his late 30s and puts out astronomical, unheard of numbers all of a sudden while looking 100 pounds of muscle heavier.
He calls it proper training and nutrition; the general sporting public calls it juice.
05-08-2006, 08:43 PM
#88
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Originally Posted by jts1207
Comparing Ortiz to Bonds is stupid.
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...layerID=120074
05-08-2006, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GOOSE
Everyone who is saying "he's never failed a drug test" etc... sounds kinda naive.
I'm sure you guys are aware that almost if not all of the stuff he's "allegedly" taken can be masked and is pretty much rendered undetectable.
The guy has money, trainers, and a freakin laboratory at his disposal. I'm not really surprised that his tests are clean.
That's why attention is being given to other people's claims and statements, as well as the physical evidence (the size of his body, head). It's kinda hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has an offensive explosion in his late 30s and puts out astronomical, unheard of numbers all of a sudden while looking 100 pounds of muscle heavier.
He calls it proper training and nutrition; the general sporting public calls it juice.
I'm sure you guys are aware that almost if not all of the stuff he's "allegedly" taken can be masked and is pretty much rendered undetectable.
The guy has money, trainers, and a freakin laboratory at his disposal. I'm not really surprised that his tests are clean.
That's why attention is being given to other people's claims and statements, as well as the physical evidence (the size of his body, head). It's kinda hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has an offensive explosion in his late 30s and puts out astronomical, unheard of numbers all of a sudden while looking 100 pounds of muscle heavier.
He calls it proper training and nutrition; the general sporting public calls it juice.
05-08-2006, 08:54 PM
#90
Duck Fuke!
Originally Posted by CL Platano
Just look at the difference from 02-03..
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...layerID=120074
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...layerID=120074
11 more dingers plaing in Fenway rather than Minn? You are kidding right?
05-08-2006, 08:58 PM
#91
Duck Fuke!
05-08-2006, 09:00 PM
#92
Duck Fuke!
05-08-2006, 09:00 PM
#93
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Originally Posted by jts1207
11 more dingers plaing in Fenway rather than Minn? You are kidding right?
05-08-2006, 10:38 PM
#94
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I'm not a Bonds fan but here's my take:
1. Did he juice? probably. But he's still a great player, and doing what everyone else was doing. The only reason why he's getting so much heat is becasue he doesn't smile for the camera. Speaking of which.......
2. I think it's funny that most people who hate Bonds do so only becasue of the media. Most writers dislike him, a few hate him. A lot of this started becasue he refused to give a few assholes interviews, so they decided to bash him - acting like scorned little girls and now using their leverage to trash someone. For what - casue he didn't want to talk? Now Bonds can be condescending to the media, but I'm not gonna judge any athlete by the way they treat sports reporters. Who are they? Sports reporters sometimes have more ego than the athletes they cover. And watch out should you cross one of their paths - they will carry a grudge for life. I don't buy into the athletes are privldeged so they OWE the public or sports writers their complete coorperation at all times. Sure it would be nice but I don't expect it all the time. Especially when some writers ask the stupidest questions at the wrong time. So at least Bonds never got up into someone's face. Or physically abused anyone. Or threatened anyone - or yelled at anyone. He just shows his obvious dislike of hte media. And the meida has returned the favor. But he's public enemy #1 for a lot of the public that can't think for themselves and worship sports writers and their every word, like they aren't biased. Or have an agenda. Or maybe just plain don't know what the fuck they're talkng about sometimes. So I won't judge him or any athlete becasuse of that petty shit becasue if I was a pro athelte I know I would go off on some of the questions I've seen players being asked.
1. Did he juice? probably. But he's still a great player, and doing what everyone else was doing. The only reason why he's getting so much heat is becasue he doesn't smile for the camera. Speaking of which.......
2. I think it's funny that most people who hate Bonds do so only becasue of the media. Most writers dislike him, a few hate him. A lot of this started becasue he refused to give a few assholes interviews, so they decided to bash him - acting like scorned little girls and now using their leverage to trash someone. For what - casue he didn't want to talk? Now Bonds can be condescending to the media, but I'm not gonna judge any athlete by the way they treat sports reporters. Who are they? Sports reporters sometimes have more ego than the athletes they cover. And watch out should you cross one of their paths - they will carry a grudge for life. I don't buy into the athletes are privldeged so they OWE the public or sports writers their complete coorperation at all times. Sure it would be nice but I don't expect it all the time. Especially when some writers ask the stupidest questions at the wrong time. So at least Bonds never got up into someone's face. Or physically abused anyone. Or threatened anyone - or yelled at anyone. He just shows his obvious dislike of hte media. And the meida has returned the favor. But he's public enemy #1 for a lot of the public that can't think for themselves and worship sports writers and their every word, like they aren't biased. Or have an agenda. Or maybe just plain don't know what the fuck they're talkng about sometimes. So I won't judge him or any athlete becasuse of that petty shit becasue if I was a pro athelte I know I would go off on some of the questions I've seen players being asked.
05-08-2006, 11:19 PM
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wait who gives a flying fuck about baseball? The sport is a fucking joke. They "found" all this shit on Bonds and now people are trying to crucify them. if they decide to investigate any other player in the league, watch how much "shit" is "found" out about them.
05-09-2006, 12:22 AM
#96
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Originally Posted by lowpost
I'm not a Bonds fan but here's my take:
1. Did he juice? probably. But he's still a great player, and doing what everyone else was doing. The only reason why he's getting so much heat is becasue he doesn't smile for the camera. Speaking of which.......
2. I think it's funny that most people who hate Bonds do so only becasue of the media. Most writers dislike him, a few hate him. A lot of this started becasue he refused to give a few assholes interviews, so they decided to bash him - acting like scorned little girls and now using their leverage to trash someone. For what - casue he didn't want to talk? Now Bonds can be condescending to the media, but I'm not gonna judge any athlete by the way they treat sports reporters. Who are they? Sports reporters sometimes have more ego than the athletes they cover. And watch out should you cross one of their paths - they will carry a grudge for life. I don't buy into the athletes are privldeged so they OWE the public or sports writers their complete coorperation at all times. Sure it would be nice but I don't expect it all the time. Especially when some writers ask the stupidest questions at the wrong time. So at least Bonds never got up into someone's face. Or physically abused anyone. Or threatened anyone - or yelled at anyone. He just shows his obvious dislike of hte media. And the meida has returned the favor. But he's public enemy #1 for a lot of the public that can't think for themselves and worship sports writers and their every word, like they aren't biased. Or have an agenda. Or maybe just plain don't know what the fuck they're talkng about sometimes. So I won't judge him or any athlete becasuse of that petty shit becasue if I was a pro athelte I know I would go off on some of the questions I've seen players being asked.
1. Did he juice? probably. But he's still a great player, and doing what everyone else was doing. The only reason why he's getting so much heat is becasue he doesn't smile for the camera. Speaking of which.......
2. I think it's funny that most people who hate Bonds do so only becasue of the media. Most writers dislike him, a few hate him. A lot of this started becasue he refused to give a few assholes interviews, so they decided to bash him - acting like scorned little girls and now using their leverage to trash someone. For what - casue he didn't want to talk? Now Bonds can be condescending to the media, but I'm not gonna judge any athlete by the way they treat sports reporters. Who are they? Sports reporters sometimes have more ego than the athletes they cover. And watch out should you cross one of their paths - they will carry a grudge for life. I don't buy into the athletes are privldeged so they OWE the public or sports writers their complete coorperation at all times. Sure it would be nice but I don't expect it all the time. Especially when some writers ask the stupidest questions at the wrong time. So at least Bonds never got up into someone's face. Or physically abused anyone. Or threatened anyone - or yelled at anyone. He just shows his obvious dislike of hte media. And the meida has returned the favor. But he's public enemy #1 for a lot of the public that can't think for themselves and worship sports writers and their every word, like they aren't biased. Or have an agenda. Or maybe just plain don't know what the fuck they're talkng about sometimes. So I won't judge him or any athlete becasuse of that petty shit becasue if I was a pro athelte I know I would go off on some of the questions I've seen players being asked.
05-09-2006, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by teamdunc03
There you go making assumptions. Until he is PROVEN guilty, you can't go around taking shots at the guy.
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just stating my doubts and pointing out the drawback of the "hasn't tested positive" defense of Bonds. I'm not assuming he's taken steroids, I'm just very skeptical.
He COULD be clean, but for the reasons I stated and others, I find it very hard to believe.
(By the way, as recently as 2 years ago, I ranked him as the 3rd greatest athlete of the ESPN era, behind Jordan and Gretzky. Yes, that high. So you don't need to tell me about how great he is. Without the steroid scandal, he's the greatest player of our time and easily a top 5 player EVER.)
But he's still on more roids than the Ultimate Warrior :wink:
05-09-2006, 02:23 AM
#98
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I think some people in here are getting the idea of guilt confused.....
Most people have decided to dismiss Bonds as a real baseball player because it is more likely than not that he has taken steroids, and known it at the time.
If you want to apply criminal conviction standards to it (not sure why one would do that in this case, but whatever), then you can continue to dismiss any and all evidence until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Most people have decided to dismiss Bonds as a real baseball player because it is more likely than not that he has taken steroids, and known it at the time.
If you want to apply criminal conviction standards to it (not sure why one would do that in this case, but whatever), then you can continue to dismiss any and all evidence until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
05-09-2006, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ccannizz11
I think some people in here are getting the idea of guilt confused.....
Most people have decided to dismiss Bonds as a real baseball player because it is more likely than not that he has taken steroids, and known it at the time.
If you want to apply criminal conviction standards to it (not sure why one would do that in this case, but whatever), then you can continue to dismiss any and all evidence until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Most people have decided to dismiss Bonds as a real baseball player because it is more likely than not that he has taken steroids, and known it at the time.
If you want to apply criminal conviction standards to it (not sure why one would do that in this case, but whatever), then you can continue to dismiss any and all evidence until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
he's already been found guilty in the court of public opinion. And it's not just the media. Vast majority of baseball fans don't like him. There's got to be a reason for that.
05-09-2006, 09:03 AM
#100
Originally Posted by teamdunc03
As of right now, Bonds should be thought of as innocent cause they he has never failed a drug test nor do they have any other concrete evidence. I'm so tired of hearing about it. This is nothing more than character assassination. Until there's PROOF to say otherwise, Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player of our time. Choke on that.
05-09-2006, 09:07 AM
#101
Also - the fact that Bonds is still playing is doing a disservice to his team, SF fans and everyone else who appreciates baseball. He's only in it right now for purely selfish reasons. He can't play anymore. He can't run. His knees are so shot that he can barely stand in place and swing a bat. Yet he still hobbles out to the outfield, and gimps out if he hits anything other than a homerun. If he cared about his teammates, his fans or the game he wouldn't have come back this season. Instead, the piece of shit racist bastard is going to make everyone suffer until he fulfills his selfish little, self-proclaimed racist quest to beat Ruth. Playing in the NL, Bonds has no business doing anything other than pinch hitting.
05-09-2006, 09:26 AM
#102
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Originally Posted by subinf
I've met him and talked to him...he is an asshole and the media pretty much has it dead on. I really wish they would make his life a living hell and he breaks down before he hits any more homeruns.
05-09-2006, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Always Dirty
Let me guess, you're just one more fag riding his nuts and trying to make this a race issue?
05-09-2006, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Always Dirty
Also - the fact that Bonds is still playing is doing a disservice to his team, SF fans and everyone else who appreciates baseball. He's only in it right now for purely selfish reasons. He can't play anymore. He can't run. His knees are so shot that he can barely stand in place and swing a bat. Yet he still hobbles out to the outfield, and gimps out if he hits anything other than a homerun. If he cared about his teammates, his fans or the game he wouldn't have come back this season. Instead, the piece of shit racist bastard is going to make everyone suffer until he fulfills his selfish little, self-proclaimed racist quest to beat Ruth. Playing in the NL, Bonds has no business doing anything other than pinch hitting.
05-09-2006, 09:37 AM
#105
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I think BB is definitely the greatest player of his era. But again, this era is much different from others. And that's why it's retarded to hear anyone say, "he's the greatest of all time" ... I mean, it's an exercise in futility to compare players this way. But even without CONCLUSIVE evidence of steroids (I mean, we will never really know unless he confesses and has no absolutely no reason to do this), the past 20 years has seen an explosion in supplementation, rigorous weight-training, medical advances, and information technology.
The game is much different than it was in the 1950's-1970's (more teams, more specialization, more analysis, etc. etc.), but who cares? Professional sports is a product. It's business and it's entertainment. Anyone bemoaning the loss of tradition or the "sanctity of the game" is being naiive. So yeah, BB reflects all that's good and bad with baseball over the past 20-25 years. Selfish, overpaid, self-promotion, me-first mentality ... holy crap, isn't that the definition of the modern athlete? Fuck nostalgia. This is the reality of modern sports. I've always believed ESPN was the barometer for sports and its importance to society. And what's ESPN? All hype, all commercial appeal, all promotion, mostly style over substance, always pushing the next big thing and manipulating how we perceive athletes, rivalries, and etc.
The race card is ridiculous in terms of Barry Bonds. This is a dude who is as detached from the "black experience" as can be. He was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth. He went to prep schools. He's dated mostly white women (nothing wrong with that but I'm just saying). And has anyone actually heard him speak for a length of time? He's a cross between a Nor-Cal stoner and a Valley Girl ... "whatever" ... "dude" ... "totally" ... "I was like" ...
The game is much different than it was in the 1950's-1970's (more teams, more specialization, more analysis, etc. etc.), but who cares? Professional sports is a product. It's business and it's entertainment. Anyone bemoaning the loss of tradition or the "sanctity of the game" is being naiive. So yeah, BB reflects all that's good and bad with baseball over the past 20-25 years. Selfish, overpaid, self-promotion, me-first mentality ... holy crap, isn't that the definition of the modern athlete? Fuck nostalgia. This is the reality of modern sports. I've always believed ESPN was the barometer for sports and its importance to society. And what's ESPN? All hype, all commercial appeal, all promotion, mostly style over substance, always pushing the next big thing and manipulating how we perceive athletes, rivalries, and etc.
The race card is ridiculous in terms of Barry Bonds. This is a dude who is as detached from the "black experience" as can be. He was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth. He went to prep schools. He's dated mostly white women (nothing wrong with that but I'm just saying). And has anyone actually heard him speak for a length of time? He's a cross between a Nor-Cal stoner and a Valley Girl ... "whatever" ... "dude" ... "totally" ... "I was like" ...
05-09-2006, 10:05 AM
#107
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Originally Posted by btsilver
why is he racist now? And how is his quest racist?
http://www.intellectualconservative....ticle4402.html
05-09-2006, 10:07 AM
#108
Originally Posted by btsilver
why is he racist now? And how is his quest racist?
05-09-2006, 10:12 AM
#109
Originally Posted by lowpost
Me either
05-09-2006, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ccannizz11
The Intellectual Conservative? yeah ok. This guy called spike lee racist too?
05-09-2006, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Always Dirty
It was just a guess that when the douche says "Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player of our time. Choke on that." that a racial hook was behind it. Nobody but an angry black man is going to get that fired up defending an asshole like Bonds.
05-09-2006, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by btsilver
The Intellectual Conservative? yeah ok. This guy called spike lee racist too?
05-09-2006, 10:35 AM
#114
Originally Posted by btsilver
Sorry still didnt see it. Now if he added some racial ephitet on the end then that is different. I know a bunch of Asians from that area that like bond and would defend his ass like that too.
)telling all of us to choke on it. I'm free to make assumptions, and I think I'm still going to stand by this one.
05-09-2006, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Always Dirty
Hey - I didn't say it was anything other than a guess. "big_tez" from Maryland (a Giants fan maybe? )telling all of us to choke on it.
I'm free to make assumptions, and I think I'm still going to stand by this one.
)telling all of us to choke on it. I'm free to make assumptions, and I think I'm still going to stand by this one.
05-09-2006, 10:44 AM
#116
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Originally Posted by btsilver
The Intellectual Conservative? yeah ok. This guy called spike lee racist too? 
05-09-2006, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
Do you really believe that Spike Lee isn't racist?
05-09-2006, 11:03 AM
#118
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Who the fuck needs proof when the guy has grown 15 head sizes in the last 7 years... Sure... vitamins are responsible for that.
I won't argue that the guy can hit. Even before he came on the home run radar, he was a great hitter. But I'm sorry. The guy has clearly taken a shortcut. Whether he is ever found guilty or not... I'll always have a * next to his name in my mind.
I won't argue that the guy can hit. Even before he came on the home run radar, he was a great hitter. But I'm sorry. The guy has clearly taken a shortcut. Whether he is ever found guilty or not... I'll always have a * next to his name in my mind.
05-09-2006, 11:05 AM
#119
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by lowpost
Sorry I know a lot of people who also have met him and say he's actually a nice guy.
Why are you sorry? I've met him and nearly everything the media says about him is pretty much accurate. I'm sure there are exceptions and breaks in his behavior, but I need no more reasons to think otherwise.
05-09-2006, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Scrib
Who the fuck needs proof when the guy has grown 15 head sizes in the last 7 years... Sure... vitamins are responsible for that.
I won't argue that the guy can hit. Even before he came on the home run radar, he was a great hitter. But I'm sorry. The guy has clearly taken a shortcut. Whether he is ever found guilty or not... I'll always have a * next to his name in my mind.
I won't argue that the guy can hit. Even before he came on the home run radar, he was a great hitter. But I'm sorry. The guy has clearly taken a shortcut. Whether he is ever found guilty or not... I'll always have a * next to his name in my mind.
He is a great player, but his legacy will be tarnished much like what happened to Pete Rose. It doesn't help that Bonds presents himself like a total douchebag in the media.