Honda: Civic News
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: In an igloo
dont worry guise! it's not about the price of the car, it's the monthly payments that matter!!
so what if my monthly payments are only $250 for the next 10 years?
plus, I can refinance it to draw the monthly payments out even longer but at least I'll have 100 dollar car payments
so what if my monthly payments are only $250 for the next 10 years?
plus, I can refinance it to draw the monthly payments out even longer but at least I'll have 100 dollar car payments
Also, let the dummies be the guinea pigs for this thing. I'm sure the bugs, if any, will be known within the first 12 months.
You'll Never Walk Alone
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I really want to like this thing so badly but I just can't get over the looks and sub par performance in comparison to its rivals. I know that this thing will sell like hotcakes and stock versions will command quite a lot in the used market in the very near future anyway but my god is it ugly. The front looks fine but the back...it's so bad...and this is coming from a guy that daily drives a newer Cherokee.
Here's Motor Trend's review of the CTR:
2017 Honda Civic Type R Review: Driving the Most Powerful U.S. Honda Ever - Motor Trend
Here are some quotes regarding the CTR vs the Focus RS and Golf R:
Would we choose the $34,775 306-hp FWD Honda Civic Type R over a $36,995 350-hp AWD Ford Focus RS or a $36,475 292-hp AWD Volkswagen Golf R? Yes, in a heartbeat, for the simple fact that the Ford’s ride is largely intolerable even in the “soft” setting. And although the VW’s supple ride and sophisticated dynamics are attractive, the price can easily approach $40,000 with just a few options, including the brilliant DSG double-clutch automated manual.
The precision of its steering and chassis, the tractable turbocharged power, and the ludicrous-speed stability and control afforded by the aero package and adaptive dampers set this Honda apart from its American and German competitors.
...as was certified with its Nordschleife lap record, clearly the Type R has the pace to put Ford and VW in its mirrors when it counts.
...the fact that the Civic Type R is more involving to drive—it “needs” you more— make it more rewarding than the others. It will even make you feel like a better driver than you probably are.
The way the 2017 Honda Civic Type R pulls all of this together—pace, poise, features, and everyday liveability—make it the uniquely attractive high-performance hatchback we’ve always wanted.
So anyway, back to the real world...the CTR was dyno'd at 295whp, according to jalopnik. The article in itself seems kind of bogus. They show a horsepower curve, but no torque curve. And I hate when dyno charts show "vehicle speed" on the x-axis, as opposed to rpm.Either way, if it is actually putting 295whp down, that equates to, what, 325-330hp at the crank?
here is the article:
deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2
I think it's safe to say that depending on the fuel used, the mileage on the car, and testing conditions, a stock CTR will make around 290-300whp.
You can also look at dyno tests of the FK2 Type R. Here's one done on a Mustang dyno (which usually reads lower than a Dyno Jet) that makes 275whp:
The FK8 is rated at 10hp more than the Fk2.
Once again, take it for what it's worth. Honda is talking about variants of the CTR, and a rumor of an AWD version. How true is it? I dunno.
if anything, I can see Acura picking up one of these and selling as their own. I'd imagine it would be the "GT" version, and maybe the one with AWD (SH-AWD?)?
either way, the article says to expect a more hardcore version, and a toned down version. To me, that means it'll have an AT transmission. I dunno. Time will tell.
Read here:
deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2
if anything, I can see Acura picking up one of these and selling as their own. I'd imagine it would be the "GT" version, and maybe the one with AWD (SH-AWD?)?
either way, the article says to expect a more hardcore version, and a toned down version. To me, that means it'll have an AT transmission. I dunno. Time will tell.
Read here:
deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2
sometimes being too needy is a pain. I daily drive soft electric steering vehicles and then jump back into the TL and while tactile with feedback from the road...it's just sooo much easier to drive EPS.
i had gotten into the habit of taking my hands off the steering wheel on EPS equipped vehicles while turning..because it is so effortless.
OMG holy torque steer in the TL...fuck, wont take my hands off the steering wheel ever again
almost died
i had gotten into the habit of taking my hands off the steering wheel on EPS equipped vehicles while turning..because it is so effortless.
OMG holy torque steer in the TL...fuck, wont take my hands off the steering wheel ever again
almost died
Both of these cars had some ridiculous markups when they came out, especially the FoRS with the dumb hyped up drift mode button. They are all below stickers.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Spring, TX
^ I'd still take the FoRS of the 3. Funny thing is that my co-worker came back with, "it's still just an ugly Focus" But he likes the CTR 
The CTR is just a bit too extreme aesthetically for me. And honestly, If I were shopping right now, I'd likely just grab up a Fusion Sport. No 6MT, but I think I could live with that.
The CTR is just a bit too extreme aesthetically for me. And honestly, If I were shopping right now, I'd likely just grab up a Fusion Sport. No 6MT, but I think I could live with that.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: In an igloo
^ I'd still take the FoRS of the 3. Funny thing is that my co-worker came back with, "it's still just an ugly Focus" But he likes the CTR
The CTR is just a bit too extreme aesthetically for me. And honestly, If I were shopping right now, I'd likely just grab up a Fusion Sport. No 6MT, but I think I could live with that.
The CTR is just a bit too extreme aesthetically for me. And honestly, If I were shopping right now, I'd likely just grab up a Fusion Sport. No 6MT, but I think I could live with that.
Familyzine is the other way.
I'd rather have the Fusion Sport for a daily & the FoRS or an ND Miata for a toy.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: In an igloo
I'm curious to know how the new FK8 CTR compares to the FK2 I drove in Europe. Manufacturers always tout various stats, but I'd like to feel and see how it transfers to real life. I won't even bother going to a dealership to check one out until the spring though. I have zero desire dealing with bullshit sales people who won't let you drive the thing unless you hand them a blank check first.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Spring, TX
I'd be interested to give the CTR & new Si a spin, but agree. Odds of being given the keys are low with initial release. Around here, I think the same could possibly be said of the FoRS, the ones at my local dealer still have the shipping plastic on the seats & a bit on the exterior. Just strip the sheets of white shipping plastic off the exterior & park them on the sidewalk right next to the doors.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
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From: Los Angeles
yah.. i am not surprised. My s2000 had higher insurance than M3.
M5 is a different league.
It is still not going to be a WTF #... but it is all relative .. compare to regular civic and the type of youngster who are interested in CTR.
M5 is a different league.
It is still not going to be a WTF #... but it is all relative .. compare to regular civic and the type of youngster who are interested in CTR.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Jun 19, 2017 at 04:43 PM.
You'll Never Walk Alone
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I'm curious to know how the new FK8 CTR compares to the FK2 I drove in Europe. Manufacturers always tout various stats, but I'd like to feel and see how it transfers to real life. I won't even bother going to a dealership to check one out until the spring though. I have zero desire dealing with bullshit sales people who won't let you drive the thing unless you hand them a blank check first.
1. FK8 is a bit more capable as the FK2 on a track. This is proven by its faster lap time on the Ring
2. The FK8 is more capable on the track mainly because of its downforce. It's a whole lot more stable.
3. FK8 has MUCH, MUCH better ride comfort. I think this is the biggest difference. This is most likely thanks to the rear multi-link suspension setup, and that the Type R was part of the product plan of the 10G Civic all along, unlike the FK2, which was more of an afterthought
4. Less turbo lag in the FK8
The FK2 Type R was all about track performance. But the FK8 managed to improve on that track performance, while combining superb ride comfort.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 1,095
From: Kansas City
You know what, I love the brash styling that Honda did with the rear end...sure it's a bit....unconventional...and some parts are just for looks rather than function but its about time some car company took some risks and it's from Honda of all companies!
The light weight, no torque steer and the super awesome seats from the reviews seem great. Only gripe is the the slightly slower 0-60 and the inherent disadvantage of a FWD...but probably nothing a bit of engine and suspension work wouldn't do to reduce that time.
There are dealers marking this up like crazy to the tune of even 55k-60k.....reddit's r/car section is going bananaz and talking about how they'd buy a used 911 over a new CTR at markup............sigh
The light weight, no torque steer and the super awesome seats from the reviews seem great. Only gripe is the the slightly slower 0-60 and the inherent disadvantage of a FWD...but probably nothing a bit of engine and suspension work wouldn't do to reduce that time.
There are dealers marking this up like crazy to the tune of even 55k-60k.....reddit's r/car section is going bananaz and talking about how they'd buy a used 911 over a new CTR at markup............sigh
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 765
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From: Northeast
dont worry guise! it's not about the price of the car, it's the monthly payments that matter!!
so what if my monthly payments are only $250 for the next 10 years?
plus, I can refinance it to draw the monthly payments out even longer but at least I'll have 100 dollar car payments
so what if my monthly payments are only $250 for the next 10 years?
plus, I can refinance it to draw the monthly payments out even longer but at least I'll have 100 dollar car payments
Go buy one if you want.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 1,095
From: Kansas City
If only I had the money..... The 10th gen Civic forum has a great thread/post on which dealer is nice and which is naughty in terms of markup. Just discovered yesterday. Very interesting/informative:
Honda Civic Type-R Over sticker dealer naughty list. | 2016+ Honda Civic Forum (10th Gen) - Type R Forum, Si Forum - CivicX.com
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 1,095
From: Kansas City
A More Hardcore Version of the Honda Civic Type R Is On Its Way
Running around the Nurburgring quicker than any front-wheel drive car before it, you can't accuse the Honda Civic Type R of being soft. And yet, Automotive News reports that a more hardcore version of the Civic Type R is already in the works. Honda is also considering building even more variants of the Type R to cater to different enthusiast needs.
Automotive News spoke with Hideki Matsumoto, the lead engineer of the Civic at the Type R's recent press launch. "We’re hoping that by gradually putting out more [variants] that we’ll be able to maintain a more stable sales volume [for the Type R]," he said.
The first Civic Type R variant will be a more hardcore version with more horsepower than the base model's 305. On the opposite end of the spectrum, a less hardcore Type R "focused more on the grand touring aspect," according to Matsumoto, is under consideration.
Interestingly, Automotive News also reports that an all-wheel drive version of the Type R is a possibility. Matsumoto said that he wanted the first Civic Type R in the US to be a reflection of previous models—light, powerful, and front-wheel drive—but apparently, he's leaving the door open for radical new versions.
Currently, Honda doesn't offer all-wheel drive on any Civic model, so it's unclear what sort of AWD system the Civic Type R would receive. Automotive News notes that most of the Type R's rivals—the Subaru WRX, Ford Focus RS, and Volkswagen Golf R—all offer all-wheel drive as standard.
The Civic Type R is already a very impressive car, so it'll be interesting to see what Honda will cook up next for it. An all-wheel drive Civic Type R is certainly an intriguing possibility.
Automotive News spoke with Hideki Matsumoto, the lead engineer of the Civic at the Type R's recent press launch. "We’re hoping that by gradually putting out more [variants] that we’ll be able to maintain a more stable sales volume [for the Type R]," he said.
The first Civic Type R variant will be a more hardcore version with more horsepower than the base model's 305. On the opposite end of the spectrum, a less hardcore Type R "focused more on the grand touring aspect," according to Matsumoto, is under consideration.
Interestingly, Automotive News also reports that an all-wheel drive version of the Type R is a possibility. Matsumoto said that he wanted the first Civic Type R in the US to be a reflection of previous models—light, powerful, and front-wheel drive—but apparently, he's leaving the door open for radical new versions.
Currently, Honda doesn't offer all-wheel drive on any Civic model, so it's unclear what sort of AWD system the Civic Type R would receive. Automotive News notes that most of the Type R's rivals—the Subaru WRX, Ford Focus RS, and Volkswagen Golf R—all offer all-wheel drive as standard.
The Civic Type R is already a very impressive car, so it'll be interesting to see what Honda will cook up next for it. An all-wheel drive Civic Type R is certainly an intriguing possibility.
I've always been in the camp of learn and adapt to the characteristics of the car, instead of trying to change something
You'll Never Walk Alone
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
They should consider adding a Civic SiR to bridge the huge gap between the Civic Si and CTR......over 100hp and 100lbft of torque difference and $10k in pricing.......would be nice if they make a 250hp SiR for $28k.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: In an igloo
Nah I say it's perfect. Too much choice isn't necessarily a good thing. If the Si doesn't have enough power, I'd get a Hondata tune done and call it a day. We've never had an Si, SiR and Type R here, all at the same time. I don't think even Japan had all three at the same time either.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Spring, TX
IIRC, wasn't the Si the EX equivalent in Canada? Then the SiR was the same as the US-spec Si? And we never got the CTR, just the ITR. At least in the EK Civic generation.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: In an igloo
that's because you're cheap and you wouldn't buy one even if you could afford 100 of them. Hey, you've said so yourself!
Personally, if I was in the market for a new DD, I'd consider one. I'm actually more interested to see what happens with the 2G TLX in a few years, but otherwise I'd have no problem looking at a new Si. Even so, when the 2G TLX comes out, the current Si will be about 2-2.5 years old, making them perfect to pick up on the used market.
Personally, if I was in the market for a new DD, I'd consider one. I'm actually more interested to see what happens with the 2G TLX in a few years, but otherwise I'd have no problem looking at a new Si. Even so, when the 2G TLX comes out, the current Si will be about 2-2.5 years old, making them perfect to pick up on the used market.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: In an igloo
Canada US
CX ---> CX
DX ---> DX
Si ---> Si
The Si was also broken down the same, between Canada and the US in that time frame. From 1992-1993, the Si came in hatchback form. From 1994-1995, the Si came in coupe form.
1996-2000 was the "EK" series.
Canada US
CX ---> CX
DX ---> DX
Si ---> EX
SiR ---> Si
The difference between the Canadian SiR and US Si was minimal. The Canadian SiR had ABS brakes and the US Si did not. Everything else was the same.
I'm not sure what the difference between the Canadian Si and the American EX was, though. They very much may have been exactly the same.
You'll Never Walk Alone
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Gotcha.
Yea it's something like that. TacoBello nailed it I think.
But ya, my point is that there's a huge gulf between the Civic Si and Civic Type R in price, power, and performance. Perhaps the next gen ILX will fill that void of $27k-$33k market?
But ya, my point is that there's a huge gulf between the Civic Si and Civic Type R in price, power, and performance. Perhaps the next gen ILX will fill that void of $27k-$33k market?
You'll Never Walk Alone
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Car and Driver's Instrumented Test of the New Civic Type R:
2017 Honda Civic Type R Test | Review | Car and Driver
Highs:
Grip for days, excellent composure and civility, heavenly seats and shifter.
Lows:
Looking at or being seen in it, irksome infotainment interface, less-than-thrilling engine note.
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 21.7 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 9.4 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.5 sec @ 108 mph
Top speed (drag limited C/Dest): 170 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 142 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.02 g
FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA combined/city/highway: 25/22/28 mpg
C/D observed: 23 mpg
C/D observed 75-mph highway driving: 29 mpg
C/D observed highway range: 350 mi
Pretty damn impressive acceleration figures for a FWD car! That quarter mile trap speed as far as I know is higher than the likes of Focus RS, WRX STI, and Golf R. This proves that it's got some real power and that the 290-300whp dyno figures are for real.
The Skidpad and brake figures are both impressive considering those figures were achieved using max performance summer tires, as opposed to streetable track tires like Michelin Sport Cup 2 Tires like the Focus RS.
2017 Honda Civic Type R Test | Review | Car and Driver
Highs:
Grip for days, excellent composure and civility, heavenly seats and shifter.
Lows:
Looking at or being seen in it, irksome infotainment interface, less-than-thrilling engine note.
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 21.7 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 9.4 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.5 sec @ 108 mph
Top speed (drag limited C/Dest): 170 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 142 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.02 g
FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA combined/city/highway: 25/22/28 mpg
C/D observed: 23 mpg
C/D observed 75-mph highway driving: 29 mpg
C/D observed highway range: 350 mi
Pretty damn impressive acceleration figures for a FWD car! That quarter mile trap speed as far as I know is higher than the likes of Focus RS, WRX STI, and Golf R. This proves that it's got some real power and that the 290-300whp dyno figures are for real.
The Skidpad and brake figures are both impressive considering those figures were achieved using max performance summer tires, as opposed to streetable track tires like Michelin Sport Cup 2 Tires like the Focus RS.
