Friend was driving on the highway and the engine seized up so he had it towed to mechanic and it had misfire on 1 & 2 cylinder.

Cylinder # 2 spark plug melted along with coil and damaged the cylinder head.

How is this possible with such low miles?
its never been abused and the car is very clean.
it was maintained at dealership regularly.

Is it best to just swap engine? Or fix the head?

 

timing belt ?

 

pretty common to have the A/C drain plug/sunroof drain plug get clogged up and cause water to drip onto ECU which then shorts out the coil pack, which then melts coil pack

if you can, clean up the melted parts.
if melted so bad that it damaged heads,JUST REPLACE THE HEADS.

no need to change engine

 

i will post pics of the damaged coil you will see it was absolutely destroyed

 

timing belt is all good

 

i am sorry but could you kindly elaborated a little more on this? Is the drain hose routed inside the engine bay?

 

itsmostly the sunroof drain, it clogs with debris.

the water has NO where to drain. and then ends up on the ECU which shorts it out and travels to coils which then MELTS them

its very well documented here on acurazine. search

 

^^^^ no, you're mixed up I think. It's the A/C drain tube that can get plugged and the water can drip down on the ecu and fry it.

But this could merely be a cause of a spark plug coming loose and the heat took care of the rest.

OP, did the engine actually seize or just quit? It's quite possible that there is no or damage to the head and you may just be able to replace the plug and coil. Be careful with the dealerships, they'll try to sell you a new engine when you may only need a new plug and coil....

 

The ECU is located behind the center console under the dash. The A/C system drips water as it runs (totally normal) and this water drips though a drain line. If the line becomes clogged (mold, alage, etc) it will back up and water will fill up in the A/C system. Once it fills up it'll start leaking into the car and water will make it's way to the ECU, causing the short and the exact issue you had.

Sometimes, shops will plug the drain hose with a screw so water doesn't drip on them while working on the car (places like jiffy lube for example). Also, mold will naturally grow in the drain and should be periodically cleaned out.

The fix will be fairly straightforward. New ECM, get some used coils ($10 each on ebay). You can buy a set of used or new heads and swap them in. While doing the head replacement you should replace the timing belt and waterpump.

A competent shop should be able to clean the head out without any issues as the head is aluminum and the coils are plastic.

 

Ok guys so the engine starts and runs and can be driven but the spark plug whole needs to be re threaded. I dropped it off at mechanic to see if the inside of engine is still good

 

Guys how much do you think it should cost to fix the engine and retread the spark plug, change timing belt water pump and all the necessary stuff for the 105k service. My mechanic says it'll be between $2500 to $3000 but that's the worst case scenario he said it might be cheaper.

 

how much do you think this should cost?

 

Are you sure the hole needs to be re-threaded? Has anyone tried to thread a new plug in the existing hole/threads?

A mechanic shouldn't charge more than ~$300 to time sert/helicoil the hole. Add another ~$110 for the plug and coil.

And make sure he uses anti-seize and 13 ft-lbs when installing the new plug. Also, have him check all the other plugs while he's there.

 

If you buy the used igntion coil from ebay, $10 for the coil. The Helicoil insert to rethread the spark plug hole in the head shouldn't be more than $350. This should ONLY be done by competent mechanic as messing up the helicoil will cause metal fragments to drop into the engine and that can cause total engine failure! If you are willing to do the 105K service at the same time, it may be cost effective to buy a used head and have the mechanic put that on, you can find used good ones for $250. Remember that there will be labor to install it!

The spark plug you can buy for $11 locally from autozone or save money and buy all 6 online.

The PCM is going to be a bit more expensive as I believe it's tied to the security system. Either Acura will need to program the used ECU/PCM that you get to your car or you'll have to swap over the immobilizer system too. Unsure of the cost to be honest on this portion.

The 105K service is about $1000 including parts and labor. You can buy the AISIN Water pump kit from rockauto (don't forget about the 5% coupon there) and buy all the other stuff you need too. I'd recommend replacing the front main seal and cam seals while you are doing the labor. Also check and reseal the oil pump and oil pan! That's an extra $350 but if it happens after the 105K service, it'll be $600 in labor just to get there.

 

Just go over the estimate with the shop line by line. The 105k service should be about $1000-1200 if they do it all. You obvs need plugs and they might be charging for coils. Plus markup. See if he plans to take the head off to do the rethread. Then figure if you need that ecu and other parts along the way they are putting in a buffer to give them a cushion. Depending on labor yeah you could easily be up to $2000+. Good luck man, I would still love to see pictures of it, esp if u can get us some of the damaged pack and plug hole. Maybe someone could give you some more advice then.

 

Yeah, thats where we messed up. I should've tried to put a new plug and coil before towing it to the mechanic. The plug that was inside the car came off with metal attached to it, idk if that means anything. Thank you for the reply

 

Thank you for your elaborate explanation I will be talking to him tomorrow

 

Sorry I forgot to take pics before dropping the car off. I will try to take some pics when I go back.
The mechanic is taking the head off to inspect enough aluminum is available to rethread and to check the interior to make sure rethread will fix it.

 

1. Was the plug totally out by itself or did someone pull it?
2. Was the "metal" on the threaded end?
3. Do you still have the plug? If so, post a picture.

A good mechanic should be able to do a time sert with the head on the car... I hope he's not charging you a ton for head removal/replacement....

Also, a good mechanic could scope and vacuum the cylinder without having to remove the head. Who is this guy?

 

The plug came out completely and the metal was on the threaded part of the plug.
The plug and coil is inside a box in the car. i will definitely take pictures once I go back to the mechanic.

He said he will only charge me $250 tear the engine apart and inspect everything to make sure if I need to overhaul the engine.
As far as the repair cost goes, when I dropped the car off he said $2500-3000 roughly to do everything but I called him today and told him I would rather try to rethread the hole and put a new plug and see how it drives.

He's a mechanic whom I have been going to for couple years now, and he's been a honest guy but for some reason I feel like he's charging me bit more than before.
It's my fault for not trying to put a new plug before towing it.

 

#2 is on the back of the engine right? That makes it a bit more difficult to to a timesert but it can still be done with the engine in the car. I can't see it taking more than an hour of labor - it takes about 10 minutes to do. The timesert was only around $75 so worst case $200 for it. I'd go that route, cross fingers and see if it runs right. If not, I wouldn't even waste the effort to tear it down and see what needs to be done. You'd be better off buying a junkyard motor for $400 and putting a timing belt and water pump on it and installing that.

 

The same exact thing happened to my car at 75k miles couple years ago. Thankfully it was all covered under warranty. (2007 TLS). Below is the link I posted on here when it happened

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-generation-tl-2004-2008-93/need-explanation-888277/

 

Guys here are some pics I had on my phone of the hole after the plug was taken out

 

Yup #2 is in the back. I will know all the details tomorrow and keep you guys updated.

 

Wait, how'd you manage to take those pictures? Is this at the front or back of the engine?

 

that is so weird how you found my thread and you had the same issue. Luckily you had extended warranty but I am out of luck lol

 

Hey I was able to get pics of the part from my friend he had on his phone. See the attachment and thank you for all your help man

 

Also I made a mistake in my response, the plug had to be pulled out by the shop my friend had taken to after this happened.

 

Hard to be certain, but I don't see any "metal" in the plug threads. He may be in luck as it looks like maybe the plug just came out/loose. The heat melted the coil making it a bitch to get both the coil and plug out of the spark plug tube. I'm surprised the plug wasn't blown completely out.

When they pulled the plug, did they actually have to unthread it, or did it just come straight out?

 

I am not sure about how it was taken out but pretty certain it was hard to do.
What is the thing around the plug on the threaded part? I thought that was metal?

 

I had a video in my phone when I went to check it out I was trying to get a good look inside with my phone since I don't have a borescope.

 

So guys, the mechanic is asking for $1400 to rethread the hole and change plugs as well as do compression test.
To me, that sounds like a lot just for a simple rethread.

What do you guys think? He said he's 80% sure it'll fix the misfire and if it doesn't fix it then I will only owe him $500 unless I change the engine then he will deduct the $500 from the engine swap.

 

Is he removing the head to make the repairs?
Many will want to remove the head to ensure the shavings don't create any
problems after the job is completed. I usually get the piston in position so that the
exhaust valve on that cylinder is open, intake closed, then use compressed air to
blow out the debris. Some might say the metal going into the converter might cause
a problem, but I've never encountered any.

 

Yes he is removing the head.
To me it still sounds like lot for that repair.

 

If he is going to remove the head r u still having him do the timing belt, pullies, and coil packs? $1400 JUST for the rethread? To me I would only go for it I could also get the belt done included in that labor if I supplied the parts. I dont know enough to tell you if it is a complete ripoff price, but going off what other people chimed in it sounds high. I guess its nice he will eat the work if it doesnt fix it...

 

I guess I might be able to get him to do the TB service if I supplied the parts but then I am looking at about $2000 for everything.

 

Has he confirmed that the threads in the head are stripped?

$1400 seems way too high. Get a copy of the estimate and post it. What's his labor rate?

I don't know what the book rates are, but I'm guessing (liberally, I think):

4 hours remove and replace head
1 hours for time sert
1 hour for plugs/compression test

labor: 6 hours @ $125/hr = $750

plugs: $75
coil: $90
valve cover gasket: $15
manifold gaskets: $30

What am I missing?

 

Yes he has confirmed that the the threads are striped.
I will get a written quote tomorrow.

 

Helicoil is supposed to be stronger than the original threading, but if it was me...I'd be more inclined to take that labor and helicoil cost and instead put it into a used head that can just be swapped out.
Sounds like this is something you could probably tackle yourself. Did you figure out if the ECU is getting wet, finally? I'd address that more importantly than almost anything else mentioned. Source of problem!

 

The guy I got my car from was quoted $2500 by the dealer to fix a stripped plug, so $1400 is 'reasonable' from an independent. Did your mechanic already remove the head? If so, he already has time invested, so it's a sunk cost. I tried the cheap way first and did the timesert with the head on the car - what do you have to lose? The engine is toast - if it fixes it, win. If it doesn't, you're down the $90 for the timesert. Time for a junkyard engine.

The only thing I find odd is he is guaranteeing that it will fix the misfire, or he only charges you $500? If you want my opinion - it sounds like he's billing you $1400 for a "remove head, fix part, replace head" but then doing the timesert with the head on. He makes out like a bandit in either case this way. He sounds like he's doing you a great service and 'cutting you a deal' if it doesn't fix it, when he's really overcharging you if it does fix it. A mechanic is only worth what they charge and if he does free service willingly, he doesn't know what he's doing.