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^ And the CTR was never, IMO, about being fast in a straight line. You push that much power through just the front wheels & I imagine it's going to have some horrendous understeer.
You're right, the 9G R is pretty crazy, but, I wouldn't expect the 10G R to have SH-AWD for two reasons:
1. It's likely expensive as hell in just FWD form. Adding SH-AWD will just cause the price point to move up. I thought Honda was expecting to sell the R for around the same price as the Focus RS. Granted, the RS does have AWD already, but, Honda already spent a good amount of money on getting the FWD suspension setup to avoid mega torque steer. That would just be wasted money now. The reason we haven't had an R on our shores in well over a decade is due to Honda's conservatism.
Personally, I would take just a FWD variant over an AWD one... Crazy, I know, but, I'm not overly keen in adding 200+ pounds more on to a car that is supposed to be exceptionally nimble. That, and I find FWD Hondas are incredibly easy to mash through a corner. Yes, they can oversteer if not managed properly, but they're also so incredibly predictable in a corner.
2. Does any Honda have SH-AWD now? I thought that was Acura's one and defining shtick, to separate it from Honda.
I Also wouldn't want just regular AWD in the R. If it's front wheel biased, what's the point? It'll still oversteer. You likely will not corner any faster as opposed to just FWD. The only benefit I could see is that you would suffer less wheel spin upon launching, but that was never the point of the R. A car like the STi has AWD due to its rally heritage. It isn't to make to drive faster on paved surfaces. It's for the shit surfaces that an R is not intending to go bananas on anyway.
Rear wheel biased AWD would be cool, but that again isn't something Honda is keen on doing, if the past is any indication. AWD often gets this image of making an average car perform like a super beast, but that really isn't the case. I'd say AWD generally gets grossly misrepresented. We all know Honda is big on fuel economy also, further making AWD less likely to happen.
But hey, if money was no concern, I'd take an R equipped with SH-AWD and PAWS... All four wheels putting down power AND steering? Craaaaaazy!!! But the car would also need major weight loss in other areas to keep it balanced.
Both the Pilot and Ridgeline have torque vectoring AWD systems sharing with MDX, so intentionally they ain't calling it SHAWD on the Hondas because they would steal sales from the MDX.
I heard it will be FWD to save weight but with 340hp. It will use some trick suspension to make it handle really well with minimal torque steer.
Honda seems determined to win back the fastest FWD car title from the VW Golf GTI club sport s. Not sure why Honda would bother with that since that VW doesn't even have rear seats and is way more $$.
While the 9g CTR is hella fast on a track with just FWD, I hope the 10G comes with SH-AWD>.....there will be people tuning this car to 400hp+ and I don't see FWD handling that....lol
Especially with the likes of Ford and the Gulf R being AWD. You are giving us the power, now trickle down the AWD from Acura and get the power to the ground proper.
2017 Civic Lineup Turbocharged with Extended Availability of Manual Transmission
Oct 3, 2016 - TORRANCE, Calif.
Six-speed manual transmission joins the turbocharged Civic lineup, now standard on Sedan and Coupe EX-T trims
Civic is the best-selling compact car of 2016 with sales up 15.4% through August
Arriving in showrooms starting tomorrow, the Civic Sedan and Civic Coupe aim to retain their position as members of the best-selling compact car nameplate in America with the expanded application of manual transmissions for the 2017 model year. Building on the fun-to-drive character of the 10th-generation Civic lineup, the 2017 Civic offers customers more choice with a 6-speed manual transmission as standard equipment on the turbocharged Civic Sedan and Coupe in EX-T trims. The 2017 Honda Civic starts at a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of $18,7401 for the Sedan and $19,1501 for the Coupe.
For 2017, the Honda Civic Sedan and Coupe EX-T now feature the sporty and engaging six-speed manual transmission paired with a 1.5-liter direct-injected and turbocharged DOHC engine producing a peak 174 hp and 167 lb.-ft. of torque2 – up 5 lb.-ft. compared to models equipped with the Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT). The CVT remains optional on turbocharged EX-T trims, while standard on EX-L and Touring. Civic EX Sedans also now add HD Radio™ and XM Satellite Radio®.
"This has been a tremendous year for Civic, starting with the Sedan and Coupe setting sales records and leading the compact segment," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "For 2017, we're thrilled to boost the Civic lineup by pairing the manual transmission with the 1.5-liter turbocharged engine – something we know our customers are very excited about."
Since the introduction of the 10th-generation last year, Civic has received numerous awards and accolades, including the 2016 North American Car of the Year for the Civic Sedan, and has earned the highest-available collision performance safety ratings from both NHTSA and IIHS with the addition of Honda Sensing™. The Civic has led the compact car segment in sales for nine of the past ten months and has been the most popular car in America with under 35 year olds in each of the past six years, with the exception of 2014, when Honda Accord was #13. Late last month, Honda added a sporty new Civic Hatchback variant to the lineup, with Civic Si and a radical new Civic Type-R joining next year.
2017 Civic Sedan and Coupe Pricing and EPA Ratings
2017 Civic Sedan and Coupe Pricing and EPA Ratings
Key Features of the 10th Generation Civic
Major technologies, features and capabilities of the 2017 Civic Sedan and Coupe, depending on trim, include:
Powertrains
1.5-liter direct-injected and turbocharged DOHC in-line 4-cylinder
2.0-liter DOHC in-line 4-cylinder with i-VTEC™
Body
Ultra-rigid body with 63 percent application of high-strength steel and 12 percent application of ultra-high-strength steel
ACE™ body structure with crash stroke design for collision performance in a sporty, compact front frame design
Ultra-rigid 590-MPa high-strength-steel floor to enhance collision performance and ride quality
Most tightly sealed Honda body ever, with a 75 percent improvement in air leak performance over the previous generation
Premium noise isolation materials and design features that combine with the tightly sealed body for cabin quietness that challenges luxury-class compact-segment products
Chassis
Multi-link independent rear suspension
Hydraulic compliance bushings for premium levels of ride quality and road vibration isolation
Large stabilizer bars with bonded bushings for refined body control
Rigid aluminum rear damper brackets for ride quality
Agile Handling Assist brake torque vectoring for cornering precision and stability
Dual-pinion electric power steering with variable gear ratio for world-class steering feel and maneuverability
Exterior
Available LED exterior lighting
Complete underbody covering for fuel efficiency and cabin quietness
Flush mounted, acoustic glass windshield
Interior
Ultra-thin A-pillars for outstanding forward visibility
Premium, soft touch cabin materials exceeding current class standards
Dual zone automatic climate control (EX-T and above)
Available Display Audio touchscreen with Android Auto™ and Apple CarPlay™
Safety and Driver Assistance
Honda Sensing™ safety and driver-assistive technologies (standard on Sedan and Coupe Touring trims, available on all trims of Civic Sedan)
Next-generation Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ (ACE™) body structure
Achieves highest-available NHTSA safety ratings and aims to achieve the highest IIHS safety ratings
Exterior Design
The dramatic and sporty Civic design is grounded in its athletic stance and low and wide proportions. Compared to the previous generation, the 10th-generation Civic is nearly 2 inches wider and 1 inch lower with a 1.2-inch longer wheelbase, featuring a more compact and sporty front overhang; a longer, more aggressively sculpted hood and fastback-style tail. The Civic's more premium character is also highlighted by its available LED exterior lighting. The overall effect is one of dynamism and premium quality with an unmistakable and yet thoroughly modern Civic design aesthetic.
Interior Design
The interior of the 2017 Civic carries through on the exciting, modern and sophisticated styling of the exterior while providing enhanced comfort, leading-edge technology and class-leading quality. High quality, soft-to-the-touch materials are applied liberally—to the instrument panel, front door sash and door inserts and the large thickly padded center armrest. Fit, finish and materials quality throughout the Civic's cabin have been thoroughly modernized and upgraded in keeping with the more premium and sporty character.
Interior Packaging
The 2017 Civic interior is designed to offer the most comfortable, sophisticated and premium-feeling cabin in the compact class. Both the Civic Sedan and Coupe benefit from the largest cabin in the compact segment. In front, ultra-thin front roof pillars enable class-leading forward visibility. All Civic models also feature a large, reconfigurable center console with up to 7.2 liters of secure storage space; approaching SUV levels of console utility.
Interior Comfort, Convenience and Connectivity
In addition to its more spacious interior, the Civic incorporates available premium comfort and convenience features including, remote engine start, electric parking brake, walk away door locking, dual-zone automatic climate control, heated front seats and rain-sensing wipers. Models with Display Audio (EX and above on Sedan, EX-T and above on Coupe) include Apple CarPlay™ and Android Auto™ platforms. For 2017, all EX trims now include HD Radio™ and XM Satellite Radio® functionality as standard.
Powertrains
Powering the 2017 Civic Sedan and Coupe are two engines designed to provide highly refined, responsive and fuel-efficient performance. LX, LX-P (Coupe only) and EX (Sedan only) trims are powered by a 2.0-liter DOHC, 16-valve, port-injected, inline 4-cylinder engine with i-VTEC™ valvetrain producing a peak 158 hp at 6,500 rpm and 138 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,200 rpm2, making it the most powerful base engine ever offered in Civic. The 2.0-liter engine is mated to a sporty continuously variable transmission (CVT) with Honda G-Design shift control, or on the LX trim, a quick-shifting 6-speed manual transmission.
Civics in EX-T, EX-L and Touring trims are powered by a turbocharged 1.5-liter DOHC, direct-injected 4-cylinder engine with VTC and electronic wastegate, turning out 174 hp2. The 1.5-liter turbo engine is mated to either the six-speed manual transmission (standard on EX-T) with 167 lb.-ft. of torque from 1,800 to 5,500 rpm, or a CVT (available on EX-T, standard on EX-L and Touring) that offers 162 lb.-ft. of torque between 1,700 and 5,500 rpm2.
Safety and Driver Assistive Features
The 2017 Civic is designed to provide a high level of collision safety performance in a wide variety of collision scenarios, including offset and oblique-angle frontal collisions as well as side and rear impacts. The 2017 Civic utilizes its next-generation Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ body structure (ACE™) plus crash stroke technology and a 590MPa high-strength steel floor to provide a high degree of occupant protection while minimizing weight and aiding fuel efficiency.
Standard on the Civic Sedan and Coupe Touring trims and available on all Sedan trims, Honda Sensing™ safety and driver-assistive technology can further reduce the potential for a collision and mitigate the consequences, alerting the driver and taking emergency action when a collision is determined to be imminent. Honda Sensing features include the following:
Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS™)
Lane Departure Warning (LDW) integrated with RDM
Forward Collision Warning (FCW) integrated with CMBS
Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) with Low Speed Follow
Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS)
Road Departure Mitigation (RDM)
The 2017 Civic Sedan and Coupe have earned top crash protection ratings from the NHTSA – a 5-Star Overall Vehicle Score in the NHTSA's New Car Assessment Program (NCAP). The 2017 Civic Sedan and Coupe are also anticipated to earn a TOP SAFETY PICK rating from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, with a score of GOOD in all test modes and a SUPERIOR rating for frontal crash prevention when equipped with Honda Sensing.
Civic Manufacturing
All 2017 Civic Sedans for the U.S. market are manufactured at the company's Alliston, Ontario, and Greensburg, Indiana, auto plants using domestic and globally sourced parts. Civic Coupes are produced at Honda's global lead plant for Civic in Ontario, Canada. Both 2017 Civic engines are manufactured at Honda engine plants in Anna, Ohio, and Alliston, Ontario, with the turbo engine produced exclusively at the Anna Engine Plant.
Additional Information
Additional media information including high-resolution photography and video of the 2017 Honda Civic is available atHonda News.
About Honda
Honda offers a full line of reliable, fuel-efficient and fun-to-drive vehicles with advanced safety technologies sold through approximately 1,000 independent U.S. Honda dealers. The Honda lineup includes the Fit, Civic and Accord passenger cars, along with the HR-V, CR-V and Pilot sport/utility vehicles, the Ridgeline pickup and the Odyssey minivan.
Honda has been producing automobiles in America for 33 years and currently operates 19 major manufacturing facilities in North America. In 2015, more than 99 percent of all Honda vehicles sold in the U.S. were made in North America, using domestic and globally sourced parts.
You're right, the 9G R is pretty crazy, but, I wouldn't expect the 10G R to have SH-AWD for two reasons:
1. It's likely expensive as hell in just FWD form. Adding SH-AWD will just cause the price point to move up. I thought Honda was expecting to sell the R for around the same price as the Focus RS. Granted, the RS does have AWD already, but, Honda already spent a good amount of money on getting the FWD suspension setup to avoid mega torque steer. That would just be wasted money now. The reason we haven't had an R on our shores in well over a decade is due to Honda's conservatism.
Personally, I would take just a FWD variant over an AWD one... Crazy, I know, but, I'm not overly keen in adding 200+ pounds more on to a car that is supposed to be exceptionally nimble. That, and I find FWD Hondas are incredibly easy to mash through a corner. Yes, they can oversteer if not managed properly, but they're also so incredibly predictable in a corner.
2. Does any Honda have SH-AWD now? I thought that was Acura's one and defining shtick, to separate it from Honda.
I Also wouldn't want just regular AWD in the R. If it's front wheel biased, what's the point? It'll still oversteer. You likely will not corner any faster as opposed to just FWD. The only benefit I could see is that you would suffer less wheel spin upon launching, but that was never the point of the R. A car like the STi has AWD due to its rally heritage. It isn't to make to drive faster on paved surfaces. It's for the shit surfaces that an R is not intending to go bananas on anyway.
Rear wheel biased AWD would be cool, but that again isn't something Honda is keen on doing, if the past is any indication. AWD often gets this image of making an average car perform like a super beast, but that really isn't the case. I'd say AWD generally gets grossly misrepresented. We all know Honda is big on fuel economy also, further making AWD less likely to happen.
But hey, if money was no concern, I'd take an R equipped with SH-AWD and PAWS... All four wheels putting down power AND steering? Craaaaaazy!!! But the car would also need major weight loss in other areas to keep it balanced.
Hey, a guy can dream, right?
I just saw a video of Super Sport Magazine interview Sage (one of the Honda's representative in the Paris Auto Show) and he confirmed it's gonna be FWD.
You've got a point regarding Honda already proved that its 9G CTR doesn't have any issue with FWD, other than off the line acceleration. Being a track car, that may not be all that important.
And yea, saving 200lb, along with less drivetrain losses would be the two main benefits.
Since the 10G CTR is said to be rated at 340hp, about 10% more than 9G CTR, I just hope the FWD platform can handle that.
Honda Pilot and Ridgeline have SH-AWD, although Honda is just calling them i-VTM-4. Make no mistake, they both have active torque vectoring system.
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Especially with the likes of Ford and the Gulf R being AWD. You are giving us the power, now trickle down the AWD from Acura and get the power to the ground proper.
Perhaps, the 10G CTR will stick with FWD only, and may be the ILX version would have SH-AWD?
Unless it's suede or alcantara or leatherette, something like that, I don't think I could live with cloth.
That's what I am debating. I really love the new civic, but ideally I want the EX-L with the 6MT. I probably shouldn't have expected it since it's not available on the Accord EX-L either.
It sucks, but I get it. America's don't buy standard cars anymore. My local Honda dealer has an inventory of over 1000, but when you sort by manual transmission they have 1 car on the lot.
It sucks, but I get it. America's don't buy standard cars anymore. My local Honda dealer has an inventory of over 1000, but when you sort by manual transmission they have 1 car on the lot.
Philosoraptor says; if 3 pedals isnt the standard any more, is it still called standard?
I wonder if there will eventually be a resurgence in manual cars (with respect to their value/price). Eventually they'll all but disappear... I wonder if that will make them desirable.
I wonder if there will eventually be a resurgence in manual cars (with respect to their value/price). Eventually they'll all but disappear... I wonder if that will make them desirable.
IMO, Nope.
I am just hoping certain manufactures will keep the 6mt alive, even as an option. When the day comes, i am willing to pay more for 6mt on certain cars.
Either the 1.5T, tuned up to make a bit more power than the standard 1.5T going into the other civics. Or, the 2.0T from the CTR, though heavily detuned (with some other crap changed) to keep it far from the CTR.
cuz its still an estimate. it will be slotted between the EX(that is the highest trim right?) and the Type-R.
so, common sense would say hp will be in the middle of the two
c'mon....put that jello thing in between your shoulders to work
As with most Honda articles as of late, they're full of disappointment. I didn't want to waste four minutes of my life reading into it. No figures, no care.
I figured they'd just crank the boost up a bit (as per my post from a day ago), but there was nothing confirming that. And as you said, it's just speculation right now. Though I think it would be the smart and obvious thing to do.
Im not so much interested in horsepower... I'm interested in the torque gains. That's why the Si went from 1.6L, 1.7L, 2.0L, 2.4L.... Always chasing that torque.
09-30-2016, 01:53 PM
