Finally got around to driving the TSX Sport Wagon
#1
Finally got around to driving the TSX Sport Wagon
I have been looking at wagons lately and the TSX was the first on my list.
Full thoughts here: http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...ort-wagon.html
The long and short of it is that it is unsurprisingly familiar, but I am impressed with how well it drives. However, the intrusion of the shock towers into the cargo area is a major letdown and I was surprised at how much noisier the wagon is than my sedan, most likely due to the extra volume in the cargo area. The whole car does feel dated compared with most of the other cars I have driven lately.
For $36k MSRP wit the tech package, it is a decent ride, but this had the potential to be so much more. Sadly, as the TSX is done for and the TLX likely won't get a wagon variant, we will never get to find out just how good it could have been.
Full thoughts here: http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...ort-wagon.html
The long and short of it is that it is unsurprisingly familiar, but I am impressed with how well it drives. However, the intrusion of the shock towers into the cargo area is a major letdown and I was surprised at how much noisier the wagon is than my sedan, most likely due to the extra volume in the cargo area. The whole car does feel dated compared with most of the other cars I have driven lately.
For $36k MSRP wit the tech package, it is a decent ride, but this had the potential to be so much more. Sadly, as the TSX is done for and the TLX likely won't get a wagon variant, we will never get to find out just how good it could have been.
#5
Yeah, that's what disappoints me the most about the segment. Additionally, there is not a single wagon that has both 200+ hp and a manual transmission. The only wagon available with a manual is the Jetta, which is too underpowered for my tastes. Plus, VWs manual transmissions are mediocre to begin with.
#6
The latest Car and Driver showed up today, and it has a comparo of 3 wagons comparable to the TSX (in size only, they're all a lot more money). Not too surprised at who came in first, though it wouldn't be my choice. I've always been a big wagon fan (thanks to . . . Car and Driver; they built a number of wicked ones back in the day).
#7
The latest Car and Driver showed up today, and it has a comparo of 3 wagons comparable to the TSX (in size only, they're all a lot more money). Not too surprised at who came in first, though it wouldn't be my choice. I've always been a big wagon fan (thanks to . . . Car and Driver; they built a number of wicked ones back in the day).
If you think the tech in the TSX is outdated then you'll love the tech in the base 328 - because there ain't any.
When I bought my first car it had vinyl seats that were far better than the stuff in a $40k BMW. The base AM radio sound quality was better than the radio in the BMW. It was "designed" to "rival Mercedes" (it didn't but it probably got closer than this BMW).
That car? A 1979 Ford Granada.
If I wanted a Euro wagon I'd get an E350. If I couldn't afford that I'd get a Volvo or an Audi. A tarted up 328 wagon comes close to the base price of a E350 and the E is way better.
You want a wagon? You can't beat the reliability, comfort and all round balance of the TSX
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#10
So here is the second wagon that I tested:
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html
It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon.
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html
It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon.
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Puppetmaster (05-12-2014)
#11
mrgold35
Have you looked at the 3 series BMW Gran Turismo? You get a sedan look with a wagon versatility with a reduction in rear boot space. Options would put the BMW in MDX Adv territory in no time flat.
The +13 RDX looks more wagon like than SUV. It has more power, almost the same mpgs, same or updated tech, awd option and prices the same or cheaper than the TSX wagon.
The +13 RDX looks more wagon like than SUV. It has more power, almost the same mpgs, same or updated tech, awd option and prices the same or cheaper than the TSX wagon.
#12
Have you looked at the 3 series BMW Gran Turismo? You get a sedan look with a wagon versatility with a reduction in rear boot space. Options would put the BMW in MDX Adv territory in no time flat.
The +13 RDX looks more wagon like than SUV. It has more power, almost the same mpgs, same or updated tech, awd option and prices the same or cheaper than the TSX wagon.
The +13 RDX looks more wagon like than SUV. It has more power, almost the same mpgs, same or updated tech, awd option and prices the same or cheaper than the TSX wagon.
As for the 3-series GT, I hate the way it looks. The 3-series wagon is on the list though. Will be driving that this weekend.
#13
So here is the second wagon that I tested:
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html
It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon with significant reliability issues.
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html
It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon with significant reliability issues.
#15
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I liked my TSX wagon and it could really carry quite a bit. Honda really needs to make an Accord wagon again, including a V6 variant. I don't see it really competing with anything other than the god-awful Crosstour.
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Puppetmaster (05-12-2014)
#16
Remember that our Accord is just that: our Accord (North America). The European car makers can sell them here only because they sell them in droves in their home market (well, what used to be the home market in the case of the Volvo, who is now owned by Chinese holding company). Wagons just don't sell in the US anymore. Pushed off the road by SUV's first (hate that term . . . they're about as sporty as an Econoline van), now it's "Crossovers" (ignore the inuendo). Any domestic wagon wagon in the mid size market would never be profitable as a stand alone model in the US market. An Accord wagon? You've got a long wait.
#17
Nice looking and more a drivers car than our wagons.
...but that centerstack 'waterfall' looks more like my 1968 'etch-a-sketch'.
I'd consider it if it was avail when i bought my wagon in '12
...but that centerstack 'waterfall' looks more like my 1968 'etch-a-sketch'.
I'd consider it if it was avail when i bought my wagon in '12
So here is the second wagon that I tested:
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html
It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon.
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html
It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon.
#18
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Remember that our Accord is just that: our Accord (North America). The European car makers can sell them here only because they sell them in droves in their home market (well, what used to be the home market in the case of the Volvo, who is now owned by Chinese holding company). Wagons just don't sell in the US anymore. Pushed off the road by SUV's first (hate that term . . . they're about as sporty as an Econoline van), now it's "Crossovers" (ignore the inuendo). Any domestic wagon wagon in the mid size market would never be profitable as a stand alone model in the US market. An Accord wagon? You've got a long wait.
I see Outback wagons everywhere. Honda could easily poach those people and offer an AWD wagon that ISN'T ugly. They've made wagons before, my folks had a '94 Accord.
#19
Burning Brakes
Roof rack?
From your TSX Wagon review, maybe you need a roof rack for your bicycles? I know, you plan to lease the wagon and will have to eBay the roof rack when the lease is up. Still, I like that wagons are low enough for me to toss a bike on top. Unlike the Volvo wagon, the rails are already there. May as well use them.
Last edited by WheelMcCoy; 05-09-2014 at 09:26 PM.
#20
From your TSX Wagon review, maybe you need a roof rack for your bicycles? I know, you plan to lease the wagon and will have to eBay the roof rack when the lease is up. Still, I like that wagons are low enough for me to toss a bike on top. Unlike the Volvo wagon, the rails are already there. May as well use them.
And while you cannot see them in that photo, the Volvo actually has low profile roof rails as standard equipment on all but the base models.
#21
Subaru owns that market, partly due to, ironically, not offering a larger SUV (I don't count the Tribecca, which has always enjoyed dismal sales)(well under 100K in its 9 model years, and it's finally been discontinued). I do agree that an Accord wagon would be a worthwhile addition to their line up, I just don't see Honda revisiting that landscape. They discontinued wagon models as they moved into the stupe-ute and cute-ute markets. Many of us (I assume), who have paid attention, have been left scratching our heads at many of Honda's marketing decisions over the last 5-10 years. This Accord model void I think I can understand though. With offering the CRV and the Pilot (with the Element thrown in there for awhile), I really doubt that Honda would take the chance on cannibalizing sales of those models by offering a wagon. Statistically, I'm confident that it would most likely end up being a niche model, much like the TSX wagon has been (now that was a head scratcher, with the RDX sitting next to it on the showroom floor).
#22
I really liked the V60 but as you noted options push the price up pretty high. I also didn't want to be a first year owner of the new 4 cyl engines. I'm working from memory now, but I think you will have a harder time fitting a bike in the Volvo than the Acura.
#23
From your TSX Wagon review, maybe you need a roof rack for your bicycles? I know, you plan to lease the wagon and will have to eBay the roof rack when the lease is up. Still, I like that wagons are low enough for me to toss a bike on top. Unlike the Volvo wagon, the rails are already there. May as well use them.
I don't feel comfortable with exposed bikes when I stop overnight but I don't worry if they are safely stored in the hatch - even if they are visible.
#24
If you're going to lease...You could wait for Audi lease specials and jump on an Allroad...or the discontinued A4 Avant from a couple years back if u dont mind used.
Probably everything you want (except mileage) even though the price may be more than you would 'prefer' to pay?
Probably everything you want (except mileage) even though the price may be more than you would 'prefer' to pay?
#25
Two more competitors coming next week. I am working on the review of one and test driving the other one later today.
#26
Actually, because of the intrusion of the shock towers into the space in the TSX wagon, it is a bigger hassle to get the bike in and out because of needing to work around the shock towers. With the Volvo, because the load floor is wider with no intrusions, I can slide my bike in easily on its side without a bunch of extra maneuvering. It's a small detail, but it makes a big difference in convenience.
Two more competitors coming next week. I am working on the review of one and test driving the other one later today.
Two more competitors coming next week. I am working on the review of one and test driving the other one later today.
#27
For my next installment, I present the Audi Allroad.
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...d-premium.html
It is really comfortable and I generally enjoy Audi's execution when it come to interiors, but the distinct lack of anything resembling driving pleasure and miserable fuel economy pretty much takes it out of the running. Plus, I was surprised and how poorly tuned the automatic transmission is as several times my requests for full power for passing were met with confusion and hesitation before the transmission delivered the right gear.
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...d-premium.html
It is really comfortable and I generally enjoy Audi's execution when it come to interiors, but the distinct lack of anything resembling driving pleasure and miserable fuel economy pretty much takes it out of the running. Plus, I was surprised and how poorly tuned the automatic transmission is as several times my requests for full power for passing were met with confusion and hesitation before the transmission delivered the right gear.
#30
Great review on the TSX wagon.
I have always been a big wagon fan, but since my wife makes the call on the 2nd car, we finally went for an SUV and that's the end of it.
Before we completely kill off the SUV's, let me just say I, too, hated SUV's, but after driving the CX-5 for a while I gotta say it's not THAT bad. I got the MT with the CX-5 and these days the driving dynamics of SUV's are somewhat comparable to cars ... SUV's are completely not off-road-able these days OTOH. The higher roof does come in handy when moving furnitures and bigger items. And living in Canada, higher ground clearance and AWD does give me extra confidence in winters.
Anyways, just wanted to say as someone who hated SUV's, I can live with them now.
As far as wagons go, I love them, but they are a dying breed in North America. They are still very popular in europe and Asia, but somehow wagons and hatchbacks don't sell here.
On top of that, if you want MT in a wagon, your choices are very limited. Never mind 200+ HP.
I remember Gen 2 Audi A4 Avant was my dream car, and I eventually came across a used one but the mileage was too high so I opted for a Gen 4 A3 instead (and that was a FUN car to drive ... I eventually had to replace it because maintenance was getting too expensive and too frequent ... that's when I traded it in for the TSX).
BTW as far as cabin noise goes, I see that your test car didn't have a trunk cover. If you have one during your test drive it makes a noticeable difference. In fact, even in a sedan, if you fold down the 2 rear seats the noise increases significnatly already.
Finally, wagon + MT is a rare enough combination your choices are really limited.
I have always been a big wagon fan, but since my wife makes the call on the 2nd car, we finally went for an SUV and that's the end of it.
Before we completely kill off the SUV's, let me just say I, too, hated SUV's, but after driving the CX-5 for a while I gotta say it's not THAT bad. I got the MT with the CX-5 and these days the driving dynamics of SUV's are somewhat comparable to cars ... SUV's are completely not off-road-able these days OTOH. The higher roof does come in handy when moving furnitures and bigger items. And living in Canada, higher ground clearance and AWD does give me extra confidence in winters.
Anyways, just wanted to say as someone who hated SUV's, I can live with them now.
As far as wagons go, I love them, but they are a dying breed in North America. They are still very popular in europe and Asia, but somehow wagons and hatchbacks don't sell here.
On top of that, if you want MT in a wagon, your choices are very limited. Never mind 200+ HP.
I remember Gen 2 Audi A4 Avant was my dream car, and I eventually came across a used one but the mileage was too high so I opted for a Gen 4 A3 instead (and that was a FUN car to drive ... I eventually had to replace it because maintenance was getting too expensive and too frequent ... that's when I traded it in for the TSX).
BTW as far as cabin noise goes, I see that your test car didn't have a trunk cover. If you have one during your test drive it makes a noticeable difference. In fact, even in a sedan, if you fold down the 2 rear seats the noise increases significnatly already.
Finally, wagon + MT is a rare enough combination your choices are really limited.
#31
Coming from the A3 I have a soft spot for Audi. If they had made a A4 Avant with a manual I'd go for that in a heartbeat. But jacked up, those goofy flares and a lack luster automatic is not what I'm willing to pay top dollar for.
#34
Wondering how many days on average you throw the bike in the car?
If its a couple times a week i get you'd pass on the tsx for the hassle.
If its a couple times a month maybe the tsx makes more sense...especially as it seems you could get yourself a rockin deal on them
If its a couple times a week i get you'd pass on the tsx for the hassle.
If its a couple times a month maybe the tsx makes more sense...especially as it seems you could get yourself a rockin deal on them
#35
That said, the TSX is out of the running for numerous reasons besides just the oddly shaped cargo space, not the least of which is the fact that it is simply the most dated in this segment.
#36
Azine Jabroni
Before we completely kill off the SUV's, let me just say I, too, hated SUV's, but after driving the CX-5 for a while I gotta say it's not THAT bad. I got the MT with the CX-5 and these days the driving dynamics of SUV's are somewhat comparable to cars ... SUV's are completely not off-road-able these days OTOH. The higher roof does come in handy when moving furnitures and bigger items. And living in Canada, higher ground clearance and AWD does give me extra confidence in winters.
#37
I had an S6 and it was my most reliable that I'd owned to date but it was also the most expensive from a maintenance standpoint. I traded that for a GTI and then a R32 - both great cars and both had the ability to put two bikes in the back with the seats down. The R32 is one of the few cars I regret selling - it was fun, AWD, economical and held a ton of stuff.
#38
Final contender, the BMW 328i XDrive Sports Wagon
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...ive-sport.html
It's well-engineered, but expensive and adding any options starts to jack the price up awfully quickly. The interior feels somewhat downmarket to me, with its lack of cohesion and mediocre materials. The motor is fantastic though and as much as people complain about the auto start/stop, it actually is no worse than that of any competitor on the market. Still, it just feels like there is a distinct disconnect between the price and what you get for it.
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...ive-sport.html
It's well-engineered, but expensive and adding any options starts to jack the price up awfully quickly. The interior feels somewhat downmarket to me, with its lack of cohesion and mediocre materials. The motor is fantastic though and as much as people complain about the auto start/stop, it actually is no worse than that of any competitor on the market. Still, it just feels like there is a distinct disconnect between the price and what you get for it.
#39
I wanted to check out the BMW, but the sales folks at the car show and the dealer didn't want to talk to me. I understand the whole we are cool and our cars are great bs, at least say hello and answer my questions. Oh well they are expensive so it probably wasn't going to happen.
Two other cars I tester were the Toyota Venza and Subaru Imprezza 5 door. Not sure you can fit your bike in either. Wasn't that impressed with either, but the Subaru can be had for little money if you stay away from the WRX and STI.
Two other cars I tester were the Toyota Venza and Subaru Imprezza 5 door. Not sure you can fit your bike in either. Wasn't that impressed with either, but the Subaru can be had for little money if you stay away from the WRX and STI.