ocean7

I want to start up my TL but I don't want to mess up any thing in the fuel filters, fuel injectors etc and I'm a little worried about how old the gas is. It's more than 3-4 years old. It's a 2003 with 19k miles on it and is in immaculate condition. I did start it a couple years ago, saw a blinking light but wasn't sure what it was. I kind of worried it might be some indication from the fuel system and never started it since. Basically its just not had a chance to be used and has sat for a long time.


First question is, can 3-4+ year old gasoline hurt my engines fuel system? Or put a permanent coating on something? I've always heard bad things about old, sludgy gas, but not sure how old it can be. I'm not sure, but am not happy about letting it run into the engine unless someone else is sure it's ok. So I'm thinking maybe I want to do something like take the fuel line, put it in a bucket and crank the engine in a way it won't start to empty the tank. But I can't find any diagrams, or videos on it yet. I wish I could siphon it, but figure that may not be possible due to anti-theft devices. I also heard there is a 17mm plug that I can unscrew, but I looked and couldn't find it.

Does anyone know how I can accomplish draining the fuel tank with one of these methods or another? Another method is for me to pay for towing to a garage, and pay them to drain the tank for me. This year, my father got paralyzed and our family has had many hurdles, including financial ones. So spending lots of money isn't exactly appealing to me right now . But if that's my only option, I guess I'll have to. Any help or ideas on the best thing to do would be appreciated. Thanks.

Nicks2001tl

Welcome to Acurazine!

Very important!
~siphon all gas out
~buy a can of seafoam 10 bucks
~put fresh fuel in via a gas can
~put the whole can of seafoam in tank
~go back to the gas station and fill it up.

If the gas tank is almost empty (meaning at the empty light or below)just use seafoam and full tank of gas. 93 octane. Also just drive normal.

If any other problems arise report back

Note: Sorry to hear about your situation. Keep on trucking.

ocean7

Hi and thanks for the warm welcome Nicks2001tl. Ok, so I should siphon it. I heard it might be possible on some cars with a narrow diameter hose. I have a beat up one with some kinks I tried, and it didn't seem to go down. Maybe I need a newer one with no kinks? But I have also heard there could be some filter in there that blocks it on some cars. I also read there might a float-like ball that is used in the event the car over turns to stop gas from coming out. I have no idea what our cars have, but read a narrow hose is part of the key to it, if it will work. I'm guessing I have about 5 gallons in it, but the battery is 100% dead and nothing comes on and won't charge. Looks like my first $100 spent will be on a battery

I also made my first call to pep boys and ask him for a little help etc. After a long hold, he said his boss told him that there would be an environmental charge for emptying the gas. I said but I really don't want that and that I'd like to have the gas in a 5 gallon container because I can put 1 gallon at a time in this car another when I do a fill ups. For example 1 gallon to 12 gallons would make it 93% fresh gas. After a few weeks it would be gone. He told me, no, it's a rule we have to do it. I ask him how much he wanted and he said the environmental charge was about $300 to $500. I said, uh... I'll call you back on that... For some reason I feel they were totally out to rob me on that. Also I do wonder if my idea of adding 1 gallon of it at a time to cars I fill up is safe enough.. hmm.. As for seafoam, that sounds interesting if I can get the gas out. I do worry it could hurt the engine since once I saw vids and they had a lot of smoke coming out etc, and it's a pretty new engine. On the other hand, it helps remove water and gunky stuff, right? It may be essential. You got me thinking now. Now I'm hoping someone has an idea of how to get the gas out that doesn't cost so much. Thanks again

Nicks2001tl

In my opinion just toss the gas and start fresh.

ocean7

I agree, and that's what I want to do. If I can get most of the gas out of that tank, my plans are to fill it with brand new 93. As for the gas I take out, instead of using it slowly, I may just take it to a recycle center.

That said, I still have no solution to get the gas out. I'm thinking the best way will be to hook up the gas line from the gas rail and have the pump, pump it into a can. But again, I have no diagrams, nor do I know what line is the gas line under the hood. I'm hoping some guru here knows. Or maybe I can find a plug under the tank, but after looking I never spotted it. I'd like to do a lot more driving of the TL , but at this point I'm stuck

ErickUa5

Heres a video to give you some ideas, Hope it helps

ocean7

unfortunately, my car's tank doesn't make it easy to get to the gas like the vette does. All cars after a certain year have bends in the pipes and other features that make it hard or impossible to suck gas out. In my case, I may be able to use a narrow hose, but not really sure even that will work. thanks anyway.

kostantinos

iTrader: (1)

I just did it on my bmw that has been sitting for 7 years

I removed a fuel line under the car and put it in a bucket
then I found the fuel pump and jumped it and emptied the tank

Then I filled it with a few gallons and put some fuel stabilizer in it

When I get it registered, I'm going to dump some seafoam in it and go fill the tank

Yikes

Gasoline is a good solvent, so I doubt it would cause any permanent coating on anything. 3-4 year old gas isn't old enough to cause damage, but your car will choke and skip and run like shit. Gasoline doesn't last that long.

Only 19,000 miles eh? You might want to get that timing belt done asap.

fsttyms1

Gasoline varnishes. It will jell up and plug lines and injectors, even after 1 or more years of sitting. That is why anytime you plan on parking a car/boat/lawnmower (anything with a motor) its recommended to drain the fuel if you can or run a fuel stabilizer in it before it gets stored.


OP, I would try to drain as much fuel as possible. You can disconnect the fuel line and jump the pump like above, if there isnt that much in it i would add 6+ gallons of new premium and a full can of seafoam and run that thru the system and run a can of seafoam for the next few fillups

ocean7

I'm pretty convinced now that this is the best way to go. I'm at the point where am I'm trying to figure out where the fuel lines are. I hope they're not hidden by panels etc.

I found would looks like fuel lines under the hood, and maybe today I can try to trace them under the car, and back. Or maybe just by following what ever isn't a brake line, and about the same size, I can discover it. I may also need to look in the trunk, or under the seat? I will also do the fuel stabilizer and seamfoam as it's so popular etc..

ocean7

This is what I suspected fsttyms1 and the idea of that gas varnishing does have me worried. The last thing I want to do is cause new problems. And yes, I want to drain as much by disconnecting the fuel line + jumping the pump etc. I wish there was only like a gallon because I'd just put in fuel stabilizer + seafoam + fill it with new gas. but also thanks to Yikes - I will stay on the safe side..

But I think it's more like 5gallons. If I remember the fuel needle is just a couple dots below the 1/2 way mark. Maybe even as low as 1/3rd. But I'm not sure what that means since the car also has about 1 - 2 gallons of spare gas when it points to E.

Again, I need to find the fuel line and where to disconnect it. So far I'm looking at parts on ebay like a fuel tank, filler hose assembly etc, and trying to guess where the lines connect. So far, I'm still stumped. I hope to get a new battery for it some time late tonight. Then I can see where the fuel needle points. I'm not going to crank it though. Maybe if the flashing light comes back on I can figure out what it means. I may need to buy a code reader, but will leave that for later.

3.2TLc

If the fuel gauge is showing near 1/2 full, ya definitely wanna try getting rid of that "old" ethanol shit gas as much as possible by either siphoning, pumping, or draining the tank. Try to siphon using a rigid small diameter hose along with a hand pump into a container.

To find illustrations of the fuel tank, just check out the OEM online parts stores. There should be a place where the fuel lines exit the tank that either have disconnect fittings or rubber hose clamps. Look near the lowest part of the tank near the front or side of it.

Ethanol in the gas will separate and cause moisture condensate, gel and corrosion yuk ! So, by refilling the tank with fresh premium fuel and a product such as "Seafoam"....it'll help dilute and clean the residual gas remaining. May want to consider removing the fuel pump and then replace the fuel filter "sock" on it, if ya have any problems afterwards.

ErickUa5

Post #23 shows a video of the fuel line on this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-problems-fixes-117/heat-soak-fuel-boiling-no-start-after-15min-sitting-issue-871358/

Tosh

There's more than just old fuel to worry about when starting up a car that hasn't run for a couple of years, such as seized valves, piston rings, etc., so try turning over the engine by hand first and not the starter motor. But I'd be most worried about a dry stiff timing belt snapping... Good luck!

ocean7

Very true. Thank you for the idea of the online oem parts stores. It may help me find the location on the tank.. but first I'm going to try a little more on getting the fuel pump to pump for me. Hopefully that will work first. Time will tell.

ocean7

that's great ErickUa5! I think you hit the nail on the head. I managed to find the same fittings here. That video with the gas spurting out didn't look reassuring on first sight , but it wasn't that much that came out. Here is what I found. It has a yellow arrow pointing to the corresponding place.

I'm also wondering if there is another point along the tubing that might make things easier to reroute the gas to a tank below. I'm working on some ideas. I'm looking for an example (or pinout of the pump connector) so I can just jump the pump without the engine firing up etc. Or I could perhaps remove a fuse for the ignition? I could just pull all 6 plug wires I suppose, but would rather not have anything turn. I may also get a fan to blow a breeze for extra ventilation to avoid invisible vapors, but that might be overkill.

Either way, I'll need a battery and I'm waiting on the store to get one in tomorrow. I still think I'm a few steps away though... thanks again.

ocean7

Well, I figure first things first. And after the first misery is over with, I go on to the next. Don't jinx me!!

ocean7

Here's a zoomed out view just to show where it is. The yellow arrow points to the same spot.

Gabru678

iTrader: (1)

Yellow arrow is in the top right on the second pic.
lol took me a sec.
And dont forget an oil change!
you can put some Seafoam in the oil too (I would do one first, and then put seafoam in the new fresh oil and change it again after about 1,000 Mi)

3.2TLc

Hey Ocean7.....Tosh actually has a very good point to consider. Everything is very dry within the motor. To gently jog the motor is an excellent way to acclimate the sleeping motor and get things loosened up.

Back in the day, when storing cars for the winter.....it used to be common practice to remove the plugs and allow some light oil to settle into the cylinders. Same with the intake and carb. Ya don't want to throw things into a shock after years of inactivity, IMO.

ErickUa5

Glad you found it helpful, Remember turn the engine over manually clockwise a couple of turns so the timing belt wont jump a tooth.

Make sure to let the engine warm up and idle for about 30 minutes minimum so the timing belt sits in nice, You can do that if you want but thats just me. Thats what I did when I did the Type S swap and exactly today its been a year trouble free engine .

Out of topic.. consider replacing the brake fluid and ATF when done with the engine of course. Lastly enjoy your low mileage TL .

ocean7

@Gabru678,

True, I had drawn the yellow arrow zoomed in, and now it looks small. That's good advice. I plan to

change the oil, and most if not all the other fluids as soon as possible.

I got the battery and picked up a couple other items, but it's been raining buckets here and temps are

going down near freezing, expecting freezing rain etc. I'm thinking about trying to rig up something to

sheild from rain, but with the high winds, looks like I may just be waiting until all this blows over

before I continue on with draining the gas. Thanks.


@3.2Tlc,

Oh, I agree, he does have a good point and so do you. So what I'll do is make sure I don't gun the engine and let it warm up at idle speed for a while. Then avoid full throttle starts for a while. The last thing I want to do is shock it as you said. thanks for the tips.

ocean7

Ok, so I should use something like a crow bar to turn the engine without using the electric starter then? I'm not sure how exactly, but will try to figure that out. Plus let it idle for 30 mins as you said. Trouble free sounds a lot better than "oops", something just went wrong. lol. When I can get the fuel out of the car I have planed to change most fluids. I wonder about the brakes though because they were changed out under warranty for some problem they had before the car sat. So those brakes have about 2000 miles on them. Maybe I should do it just because the fluid is old? And yes, thanks. I will enjoy the miles. Can't wait to drive the TL again

As for the me getting to drain the gas, bad weather here has put a stop to most things as there's tons of rain, sometimes icy, and high winds. . Looks like I'll be waiting on that for a day or two. I hope it's not longer before it blows over. Then I can drain the fuel and hope that works out etc. Thanks again for the tips.

Nicks2001tl

Great idea to change out all the fluids.

Bought my car with 114,000.

Right away:
~changed the oil
~drained and filled the radiator fluid
~flushed the power steering
When I got more confident did the brake fluid flush.

That way I had a starting point for all future maintenance.

ocean7

Well I had a chance to really look over everything last night, along with the pic from ErikUa5. And must say that it looks a little trickier than I thought. The pipes in that picture are made of metal, not rubber so they wouldn't be flexible enough to bend.

Also at that point it would be difficult to capture the fuel by say letting it trickle down since there are components below it, and fuel would go all over. However, maybe not
impossible with something taped up or a funnel. Next if I were to just put the ignition key in and turn it to on, from what I've read, the fuel pump will only run 3 seconds and stop anyway.

I'd jump the pump at the right pins and it could pump continuously, however, I don't know which pins, and I don't even know what wiring connectors to look for because I have no diagrams. So at the very least I need to be able to know how to jump that. Then maybe I could capture it.

But better would be if I could screw another pipe and connector to it, but I don't have those.. I looked under the car and it appears it has 3 and in some places 5 metal lines running towards the back. Some seem to go to this box labeld Lenox TWV250A and it seems to be a Emission fuel vapor canister EVAP. That L in Lenox, might be another letter like T, as it's hard to read it.

A couple lines connected to it rubber, have clips and are labled FUEL. however, I don't know which one would be direct to the tank and which are considered for vapor etc.


This may be the same emission fuel vapor canister EVAP - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Accord...apor-Canister-

EVAP-/281201817051

Here is the fuel tank diagram


http://estore.honda.com/acura/parts/...=&b=B++03&dl=#



I looked for a drain plug, but the 2003 TL doesn't have one! The diagram appears to show a clean path down to the tank. So I tried again to run a siphon hose down to the bottom of the tank, but something stopped it and it came back dry. If I can just know what hose to pull and where, it could look like this. The last thing I'm going to do take it somewhere so some mechanic can secretly pull up a nice computer diagram, go right to the right hose fitting, pull it, drain the tank in an hour, call me in 2 days and claim it was a hard job and charge me $900+ for it with $400 to $500 in fake environmental charges as he dumps the fuel elsewhere. It just bugs me and I don't have the money

I'm considering drilling a hole in the tank. Crazy right? Well, I don't like the idea, but there's a rash of new age gas theives using hand drills to steal gas, I wonder if I could make a hole, then repair it. I would of course take all precautions, proper ventilation etc. But I hate the idea because there's at least some risk even with a brass bit and all precautions.. So, yeah, I guess I need to keep looking, but it's disappointing that no one seems to know how to do this on an acura TL... so far.

Maybe I can go from the top of the tank under the trunk (or seat?) and remove the fuel filter assembly and do that?. Also MODS, should I make a new thread on how to drain gas or keep things here? Anyway, thanks for the help so far.

Nicks2001tl

Concerning the old gas. There are hazardous waste dump sites in every community. Maybe your local recycling center will accept the fuel. If anything they will charge you a nominal fee to dispose of it. 400.00 saved right there. Maybe call another shop to see what they say. There are good shops out there contrary to what people say.

I would call a few shops to see what they say so you can go back and start driving your car.

Nicks2001tl

Also do not drill the tank! Very bad idea.

Siphoning is still your best bet. Unless somebody can come up with a sure fire way to drain your gas tank.

fsttyms1

Here is what i would do. open your trunk, and pull the trunk floor liner out. Look in the back near the seat. There should be a metal cover with 3 bolts holding it down. Remove that. You now have access to the top of the tank where the fuel pump goes in. Remove the fuel pump and get a siphon and suck the gas out of the tank. re-install everything add new gas with seafoam.

Then before starting the engine, take all 6 spark plugs out of the motor (and leave out) and liberally spray fogging oil in the cylinders and just nudge the ignition so that it is just enough to engage/start the starter a few times to make sure everything isnt seized. Change oil, install plugs or new plugs, radiator fluid and attempt to start.

Nicks2001tl

^^^Word for Word^^^

Tosh

I agree with fsttyms1, except for the part about nudging it with the starter motor, as it is too jerky and torquey if there's anything seized. (I'm most worried about valves stuck to the cylinder head getting bent.)

But yes, leave the plugs out, spray a 'fogger' in there, wait at least overnight for fogger to penetrate, and then nudge engine by hand (confirm the proper direction to turn crank pulley bolt).

Once up and running, change fluids at your leisure...

3.2TLc

Word for Word
~ DITTO ~

ErickUa5

The PGM-FI Main relay can be removed so you can jump the connector to run the pump I'll post pics of it tomorrow. As for the Hard line not being flexible you can attach a hose that fits sung on to it so theres no spill.

ocean7

I had ask pep boys if I could simply take my fuel to a recycle center, and he started stated their "policies" which meant no. But they're crooks, so, lol. Perhaps another shop may feel differently, and will eventually make more calls.. But right now I feel there is this hope I'm getting closer to a solution and waiting it out, using bad 18 year old car with shorted out electrical (no heat, window, airbag), but the gas pedal works! Right now the TL looks so close, but yet so far and no problems except for the gas.

ocean7

Wow, this really sounds promising! Thanks for telling me the right place to look. So what I'll do is try to get a look at it later today. The fogging idea is also a good one. I don't have fogger, but I looked and found this page called "wd40 as a fogger", and I have WD40 here. Also they say it's the same ingredients. I also could maybe look to see if the store has fogger here. Thanks again.

http://forums.iboats.com/mercury-mar...er-364449.html

Nicks2001tl

Pepboys and any other auto centers will give you brush off concerning fuel because of liability issues.

Went to give some spent tranny fluid to a local auto store said they can`t take it because of local city ordinances. Had to drive the spent fluid to the same place but in a different city.

ocean7

and this is hopeful too Maybe I can find a hose somewhere.. "so theres no spill" <- This would be great if I could really make that work. I look forward to the pics. thanks again

ocean7

oh, so that's why. makes sense. However my pep boys also likes to change prices by the minute on repair services. They are so random, and usually end up charging nearly double their estimates. It's probably the manager's way of running it.

Nicks2001tl

Hey Ocean7.

Give us an update on your project when your done..

fsttyms1

You dont need a fogger (actually ive never heard of one either) Just go to your local auto parts store and get a can of it.