ErickUa5

Here it is now before proceeding make sure you have the hose on the line. When you turn the key to the on position without starting the engine the pump will run, now look at level and when the gas light appears I would say stop you dont want to run the pump dry, now you can put new fuel in with the seafoam and run the pump again for a few senconds to get the rest out. On the pictures you can see where the Main relay is, make sure to remove it before jumping the pump.



Unplug it !


Jump the Black and yellow with the Red and white, I used the green wire to show

3.2TLc

Yeah, tell us the method ya decided to use.

Just make sure that ya have a large enough container for the old fuel to be pumped into.
Then call your local salvage yard for recycling of the old fuel. They do it everyday.

ocean7

Wow, thanks so much!! I'm going to have a better look later today when its light out. Well, I do still have to rig up the pipe correctly... But if this works, it will be awesome! Also just the fact that you spent the time to make those pictures was much appreciated!! I made some pics just for the sake of pics to show how similar mine looks.

ocean7

@fsttyms1,

I had a look at your idea/method for the trunk, and found everything just like you said. I took the cover off etc. What I didn't expect was how far back the cover was. It's not impossible, but I have to admit it was pretty cramped. After the cover came off, I found where the sensor wire went inside, pipes etc, and it was held securely by 8 more bolts which seem pretty tight. I looks like I'm close, but I was bending over and could barely reach some bolts as the opening makes it hard to reach my hands and tools inside. Also the roof of the trunk is only inches above.

I looked over an online diagram and it appears that it has a long plastic section that goes quite a few inches down (filter?). I was thinking if I could just lift it a little, then I could squeeze a thin hose in it, lead it out the trunk, and then siphon. However that plastic section conforms so exactly it leaves little room and I'd likely have to lift it up high. I have no doubt it probably can be done, but I may have to climb into the trunk which is harder and am a little worried about gas vapors getting trapped in the trunk with me there. Maybe I could use a fan to blow those if I can over come the other things, etc.

So basically I don't know which of these methods will work, and will have to retry them again later today. Never the less, I am no less thankful to you and everyone trying to help. Here are two pictures to show what I'm seeing so far with this.

ocean7

@3.2Tlc, and Nicks2001tl, Absolutely. Since some want to hear what happens, I will update as it progresses. And good point on the container. I wondered about that. I have a 5 gallon, but was thinking what if I have a little more. Plus it's hard to see when it gets full and may over flow. So I'm working on that. I will look for salvage. If I can't find it near by, I may hold on to the fuel and put one gallon at a time every time I fill up. And it would be gone in a month or so. Time will tell.

ocean7

Using a wrench, I put what felt like a reasonable amount of torque on bolt marked with yellow arrow and it wouldn't budge. I can tell it's more force than in that video. I could perhaps put even more, but I think it's frozen somehow. It's not rusty, and the part looks kind of newish as the engine has low miles, but it's stuck. I sprayed WD-40 on it and waited in case it would help but to no avail.

The hose to the right that has the red marking is made of rubber and is flexible. I wonder if that fitting where the red is can be removed and then put back. OR, I read that someone using a different engine, took a rubber hose and just cut it. Then later he had some part that let the hose mate back together again. Not to say that I know that hose labled "PGM-FI FUEL HOSE" would be the right one. But it sounds like it is. I believe that hose also goes down to the engine and another fitting that's off to the left of the picture and down. What's everyone think? Any other ideas?

Here is the valve again. The wrench handle should be pulled from right to left ( I think). At least in the video that's the way it is.




and here's the video again which shows someone turning that nut. I then wonder if I will be able to fit a tube over that.

ErickUa5

You need a flare wrench although I didn't use it I sprayed a lot of WD-40 and it went, don't strip it.

Tosh

In the time since it was suggested, have you been letting the cylinder fogger or penetrant in all the spark plug holes work? No...?

Please don't take offense, but it appears everything is either too difficult for you to do right, or you want to take shortcuts (like cutting a fuel line). So before you shower yourself in gasoline, what I think you should do is 'simply' turn the engine by hand to make sure nothing's frozen, and if it turns (and you can see the cams moving through the oil filler hole), then fill up the tank with fresh gas, pull the fuel pump fuse, and crank it until the oil pressure light goes off. Then put the fuse back, and crank as normal. It might run a bit shitty for a while, but you and the car will be safe....

ocean7

Sounds good. I will look over my tools, and perhaps head out to get a flare wrench if it looks like the WD-40 won't loosen it. It may be late because most days I go to the hospital to visit my dad. But good advise. thanks.

ocean7

@Tosh,

Tosh

Alright, but I just don't want to see you try something potentially dangerous....

ocean7

It would have moved faster if that's the only thing I had to do, but I only get a few minutes a day. Then there's weather to consider, and availability of tools. It's not my first engine I work on. Also I've transferred gasoline from tractors, generators, cars and so on, over and over for ages now, along with precautions. That said, thanks, but I'm fine and think you can put your mind at ease. Besides, it's been there 4 years, so if weather, or whatever causes me a few days, no biggie. Not that I want to drag it out, but there's no need to rush it either. except for wanting to drive the TL

ocean7

[QUOTE=ErickUa5;14777335]You need a flare wrench although I didn't use it I sprayed a lot of WD-40 and it went, don't strip it.[/QUOTE

What I did was pick up a package of flare wrenches at home depot. I must say it worked great! It was so tight, it had me worried, but then it just popped and unscrewed. I can now see why a regular wrench wouldn't have worked, so thanks.

The bolt slid down, then I gently pulled the pipe down and to the side a bit . Now I need to try and find some kind of hose that will fit it. I also got all 6 cylinders done with fogger I picked up. Next I need to find a hose that fits it. I have to drive over 5 hours tomorrow, so not sure what time I can try a hose, and we're expecting rain so I hope it doesn't rain.

Here's what it looks like so far

Tosh

Ocean7, I wasn't getting on you for not moving faster; my point was that you should be taking advantage of this time to let the cylinders begin to soak in penetrating/fogger oil, so any stuck valves and rings would have the best chance of unsticking before you crank it up.

Look it it this way: If a valve is stuck to the valve seat, it puts extra tension on the timing belt which is already potentially weakened by age and sitting in one position for those years. If the timing belt snaps while you're cranking the starter motor, you will have a very expensive repair ahead of you. That's why before cranking it, you need to take all possible precautions: loosening the valve train and piston rings by nudging engine by hand and making sure the camshafts are free to turn...

In comparison to a complete head job, any old fuel-related problems are pocket money.
Please do continue to update us!

TLer trash

Back to your original question. Putting stale gas in at a 5-10% dilution won't hurt your car in any way. You probably won't even notice it. Put in 1/2 a can of sea foam to ease your conscience. I've gotten rid of a lot of people's mistakes over the years without any haz-mat costs or driveability problems. I'm currently slowly getting rid of a stale gas/diesel mix. I've also used E85/diesel in a weak solution, again with zero problems.

ocean7

Since last time, it rained buckets for a couple days. I finally got my chance last night to try everything out.

I hooked up some hose I had and led it off into a 5 gallon approved container. Instead of a loop to do the jump, I used two longer wires that came from the inside of the car, so I could stand outside and see the engine at the same time. I turned the key to on, and then closed the circuit for a one second test. It was working as I saw gas running in the tube and into the bucket! ... but I noticed a couple drops appear because the hose was not quite the exact right size. I turned everything off, disconnected power, and blotted up the drops and closed up the hood until I can get a better hose.

Fast forward to today, I was ready to head out to buy the right stuff etc, but now it's snowing quite heavily . I was eager to do this today, but it looks like I will be clearing the driveway, lol. Oh well, I'm fine with it as it looks like it will all come together soon.


==========================

@Tosh, thanks and I understand. Also true, I could take advantage of the time, but only when I had the hour or so to pull all plugs and to spray them. But everything's fine now, and the cylinders are soaking, so no need to worry about it. Will update when I get a chance


@Tler trash, thanks for confirming what I hoped would be true. Sometimes it's just easier to do it that way as you said. I'll likely add the seafoam as suggested. It's also interesting that you can get rid of diesel this way too. I suppose some 40:1 chainsaw gas mix could be done this way too if it were diluted by that much. Thanks.

3.2TLc

So, did ya ever get back to finishing what ya started ?

.......or are ya gonna wait until the spring thaw.

ocean7

I was going to wait until spring, but you convinced me to go faster 3.2Tlc, ;-).. But seriously, I know when you can't see what goes on, it seems like forever.., but had more miserable weather, and I had to wait for some things I ordered online because none of my hoses fit. And I didn't want to play around with leaking gas, so I figured I'd get all the right things. So, yep, it took all this time.. And I about to let everyone down on updates, after all the help. So that will be next

ocean7

Well, it took me a few days to get all this together. I've decided to explain what I did just in case someone, someday finds it useful. So it, plus the thread, could be like a mini how-to for anyone wanting to empty their tank etc. Again, I didn't want anything leaking since the line will be carrying gasoline. So basically, I ordered a digital caliper, waited 2 days for delivery, got the measurement of the disconnected fuel line, then ordered the hose and clamps etc. For anyone interested, I found out was that the outer diameter of the gas line, at the biggest point, is 10.79 mm or .424 inches rounded up. The caliper said .42366 inches. So I looked and looked for a hose and it wasn't easy to find. I wanted a hose that was a tiny bit smaller so I could stretch it over top. Say 10mm.. but most were in inches and done fractionally like 7/16th. Well that comes to .4375 inch on inner dameter which is just a tiny bit larger than the fuel line opening. In a way that's good, since it will slide right over, being nearly snug. I ordered clear, gasoline safe, PVC tubing, 7/16 inch inner diameter, 11/16' outer diameter hose from Amazon for $17 and got over night shipping to help speed things up. To be safe, I wanted to use a clamp. So I ordered a pack of hose clamps called Pro Tie 33200 SAE (stainless steel) size 4, range - 1/4inch to 5/8inch. That way I could make it more snug.


Next it was time to hook it all up. I also put a small piece of Gorilla tape around the Acura's metal fuel line to make up the difference of about .016inch between hose and pipe. However, I now think it wasn't even needed since I could probably just tighten the hose clamp a bit more. I was partly worried about over tightening since if I bent the metal line, it would be a problem. I tightened up the clamp then ran the hose to a container in front of the car. Next I checked under the dash to see that the two jumper wires were still in place as Erickua5 points out above. Again, the idea was to pull the box off which contains electronics and relays to control the fuel pump when the car is running. The idea is to bypass all that with a wire to jump across the correct pins of the connector so that power will be delivered directly to the Acura's fuel pump.

I connected the new battery. I then put the key in the ignition and turned to the ON position that is just before the one where you start the engine. A roughly 6 foot wire to each pin was pulled outside the car. This was so I could watch the bucket as it filled to prevent overflow. Maybe overkill, but I put a fan blowing over the engine to move vapors away from the car and bucket. What happened next is simple, and great! I stood outside the car and touched the wires together and voila! I watched as about 3.5 gallons of dirty gas went into the bucket. The bucket was so I could easily see how much gas, as 3.2Tlc pointed out it had to be big enough to hold it all etc.. Then I used my hand held pump to move it to a red 5 gallon gas can. It took only a few minutes. I disconnected the wires and turned everything off. Next I poured 3 new gallons of gas into the tank. I repeated this to flush new gas through. Then I took the newer 3 gallons of gas and put it into another car. With the tank empty again, I next added only a few ounces of new gas and fuel stabilizer. I turned the key, and it started just fine. It had a slightly rough idle with faint puffs of smoke out the back. Nothing major. I never revved it.

After a minute, I turned it off and added the appropriate amount of seafoam to see how the car would respond. It's weird, but it seemed to actually smooth the engine out. Also there was a small black box inside the engine that is part of the fuel system, near the firewall that was faintly clicking. After the seafoam it quit clicking. It was about fuel for 9 minutes and it burned that gas up and shut off. Being that it was dark and I had been in freezing rain for 2 hours, I called it a night. But I'd call this a huge success That said, I want to seriously thank everyone here for helping me. Especially Eriku5a since that was what I hoped for in terms of jumping the pump. But I'd truly be stuck without all you guys, plus all the great tips. It was great to hear the TL start up again, so I'm happy.

So next I need to decide how many gallons I want to mix with seafoam and how long etc. At this point I can NOT drive the car because it has no insurance, no tags and needs to be run through inspection etc. However coming up next. What I'm not sure of is if I can't drive it, if it's ok to just let it idle with seafoam for long periods? I think the idea is to also drive it right? If so, I will need to get it inspected etc. But for now, at least, I did run some seafoam through it. It does seem to add to the amount of smoke from the exhaust, but will likely help in the long run....

Ok guys, here's some pics. Thanks again to all

ocean7

Typo: on post to 3.2Tlc, I said, "And I about to let everyone down on updates, after all the help. So that will be next " I meant to say, "And I wasn't about to let everyone down on the updates after all the help. So that will be next " - I wish there was a way to edit typos after the 15mins, but that's I what I meant.

Tosh

Yay! Success!

3.2TLc

Hey Ocean7, congrats on sticking to your guns and saving a bundle of money.
The documentation was totally awesome....mindblowing man !!! DIY success.

Just fill her up with premium and take her out about 3AM on a weekday nite and proceed to blow the cobwebs out of that TL.

Satisfaction guaranteed !!!

3.2TLc

show us your car !!!

Nicks2001tl

The gas you took out looks horrible, now imagine whats still in the lines, 1 can of seafoam for a full tank of gas should do the trick.


Very good job! Wishing you and your pops Happy Holidays!


I think everyone wants to see what your car looks like.


Post some pics!

ocean7

thanks. and I'd have to agree, so Yay, it's now a party, and the band begins to play! lol

ocean7

Hey, thanks. I think it was the thought of that mechanic I pictured running over to his computer, and getting the info in 5 seconds that kept me motivated. I was determined he wouldn't get my money. Also pep boys wanting to charge so much for every little repair helped too. So thanks pep boys! and the pep boys manager's reaction to all of this? -> and me -> Also ironically, that's where I bought the fogger hehe. I just won't take it for service there.

ocean7

It's true. I was shocked when I saw how dirty it looked. And when I smelled it, it seemed to lack that gas smell, as if it was mostly water, which it likely was. Ok, I'll likely do the full tank treatment then. And thanks for the warm wishes towards my dad. I appreciate it. I hope you have a great holiday too


One note about the caliper numbers above to anyone who reads this. The one with a lot of digits was actually an average of 3 readings done with a calculator, but had forgotten that. Either way, those are the most accurate. And the picture showing the caliper was slightly different because when I let go of it, it lost it's snugness by a tiny amount.. But it's so close, of course it doesn't matter. One other thing I may need to do is maybe use a rust remover on the brakes. They only have 1500 miles on them, but I worry with that much rust, if they will wear the pads faster.. Or wonder if it's fine and it will just come off as I drive without a problem.

Ok, here are some pictures of the car you and 3.2Tlc asked for. At first I was convinced they looked horrible because it wasn't a sunny day, sun was setting, it was freezing rain, and ice was all over it. But now I think they are actually not a 1/2 bad pictures. What do you think?

3.2TLc

Hey Ocean7, thanks for posting the pics !

The TL really appears to be in excellent condition. Hope you're able to get it on the road and enjoy the car. If the car was garaged and the brake rotors only have minor surface rust, ya can take emery cloth, 3m scratch pad or sandpaper to clean them up with. Then spray some brake cleaner on them and wipe dry. The pad guides and pins may need cleaned and lubed also.

Nicks2001tl

Car looks great!


Check all your fluids: radiator, brake etc. replace all that's needed. Also check for corrosion on the battery terminals. Transmission fluid is still probably on the old Honda Z-1 you might want to change over to the new Honda DW-1. A lot of TL owners will tell you to use Honda power steering and tranny fluid. Good advice.
Also check for corrosion on your spark plugs and replace if needed.


Also register with MyAcura.com. Free downloadable manual.

3.2TLc

Hey Ocean7, ya realize that even with the extremely low miles....the 'Ziner guys are gonna tell ya to have the motor's T-belt replaced with the money that ya saved in this DIY.

Nicks2001tl

Thanks 3.2tlc almost forgot. Check all belts for dry rot or cracks.


I`m not going to tell him to do a timing belt but if he wants to supercharge his for about 5 grand that would be cool.


It won`t hurt you to check all the fluids, belts and other things in your car and replace the things that would hinder you from having a great daily driver.

ocean7

Yes, it's true. I have, as far as I'm concerned, ALL the fluids to replace. Right now I'm working on the brakes, as I found a way to treat the rust. It was called navel jelly, but it was renamed to something else and I got it at pep boys. I will post pics. The manual sounds like a good thing to get, so thanks for that tip.

@3.2Tl, also thanks for the belt suggestion. I appreciate it.

ocean7

So what I did for the brakes was brush rust remover on them, and then rinse them off. Then move the wheels 1/2 a turn and do the other part. It seems to have helped a lot. I think it will make the surface smoother which hopefully will reduce the chance of prematurely wearing the new brakes (about 900 miles) that are on the car.

It seems very close to be ready to get it inspected. One odd thing was the fluid in the power steering reservoir was moving a lot the first day. I worried there might be a leak somewhere, but now it seems to have settled down to a gentle, almost non-motion. So I guess that's ok. The only other thing is that that after using a little Sea Foam, I started having crazy/random warning lights come on. First a blinking engine light. So I disconnected the battery to reset and it went away for a while. Then I got a solid engine light (no blinking) and the TCS light came on! Pressing the TCS button had no effect when this occurred. I never got to the point where I do the whole tank because I'm not ready to run it like 300 miles that way etc. So all I did was try out about 8 ounces of fuel mixed with new gas a couple days ago. After about 8 minutes the engine light came on. The next day I made 40 ounces. Enough for 30-40 mins run time at idle. But if I rev it a little it would be more like 20 minutes.

So I ran it about 10 minutes and no real issues, shut it off. I came back to it today and ran another 10 minutes and the lights came back. The solid engine light and the TCS (traction control system). I have no idea why. What has me worried is wondering if the seafoam can mess up the sensors or something and cause it to need an expensive repair. After reading around, the makers claim it is safe, but there seems to be some hints that it might mess things up. I just think it's a bit odd. Does anyone know how safe this is? And the car has under 20k miles. I realize the idea here was that since I let the fuel sit, it should help out. But since I did a good job removing the fuel before I even started it, very little old fuel got burned. Also it's had nearly 20 minutes running with seafoam now. So maybe I should just let it go after I burn up the rest of this, then fill it up all the way with new gas and no Seafoam?

So after all the running at about 700 rpm, I decided to gently raise it to 2000 rpm for 2 or 3 minutes. Then 3000 and a lot of white smoke came out. Finally I let it go to 4500 for a very short period. This is different than the first day. So I'm thinking that by it sitting in the fuel lines, maybe it cleaned it some, and now it's burning off. However there is no indication of anything black, like carbon etc. Just white smoke, which is likely the product. Leaving me to wonder if it's still cleaning or it's just burning off the Seafoam - No hesitations, no rough idle. The engine sounds buttery smooth, like it's purring, which I like. Again, my only concern is these random indicator lights coming on and am having 2nd thoughts about filling the tank and using up the rest of that can. In the picture below, the engine is running around 700 rpm.

Nicks2001tl

A few things:


1. Seafoam won`t cause the check engine light to come on.
2. Your rotors are corroded.
3. Do not drive this car with the brakes like that.
4. Check engine and tcs can mean a whole bunch of things.


Sounds like the engine and fuel is okay.

ErickUa5

The CEL can be alot of things, Probably had a few misfires and now its throwing the light.
The TCS is more than likely related to the CEL, assuming its the misfires causing it.
Seafoam does make white smoke so just fill up with new fuel and it will go away.

3.2TLc

Yeah, how about letting us know how things are going.
It would be the least that ya could do after these guys helped ya out so much with your original problem. So........????