cant_TL_me_nothing

I was driving my 2002 TL type-s last night to pick up my girlfriend from work. It was a completely clear night and the roads were dry. I recently installed a Spyder Auto CAI that i got for Christmas. I was a block away from my girlfriends job when the engine cut out at the stoplight, the brake pedal went heavy, and all or most of the dash lights came on. Stopped at the light in the center lane i tried to start the car again and it started for about 15 seconds before cutting out again when i relieved brake pressure, all the lights on the dash came on again & the lights began to flicker and dim. Thinking it was the alternator i called my dad to confirm and he agreed. After waiting for 45 minutes I finally got a tow and had my car taken to Tireman, dropped my keys in the dropbox and slowly turned away from my TL-S and rode home with my parents. Fast forward to this afternoon. I call Tireman to see what the issue is and the first thing the say is it needs a motor!!! what? how? why? "you got that cold air intake on there and it sits pretty low must of sucked up water and hydrolocked the engine" Now remember it was completely dry last night not a puddle in sight. I ask how they know its been hydrolocked and they say that the car makes a distinct sound when the car is running, since they got it running again. Now from my knowledge of cars hydrolocking (which i have plenty of now since i've been scared sh****ss about my engine since hearing the news from the shop, and relentlessly reading forums) you shouldn't be able to start the car again, right? The last time my car has seen a significant amount of water was when i took the car through the automatic car wash five days ago. If the engine had been exposed to water then it would of locked up before i left the car wash, right? Is it just the repair shop thinking "we don't know what the hell it is, its a kid with a CAI he probably doesn't know much about cars lets just tell him its hydrolocked and we'll quote you for a new engine thursday" Lets not add that apparently the tech's had been eyeballing my car saying "its a j32" & "if he doesn't replace the engine i'll be glad to buy it off of him." ... I'm thinking its either jumping timing (apparently the shop says since they did get it to start it doesn't sound nice) or its the alternator. The car is currently sitting at 160110 miles and i installed the CAI on Christmas day. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Skirmich

Get a second opinion a Hydro locked engine could start but only a couple of seconds before stalling and that is a very low chance of happening at all.. When the hydro accours most rods bent and the engine becomes a fancy paper weight if the engine starts and you can hear it running OK or the car can run at all (Drive) then its not hydro locked.

Hope that Helps and Happy New Year!

cant_TL_me_nothing

I haven't heard it all i have to wait until Thursday and I'm gonna take it to the Acura dealership to get a second opinion, the suspense is killing me. The roads here have been pretty much dry since Christmas except light snow two days ago that didn't stick much. Water from a car wash five days ago wouldn't have a lasting effect though? If any water was exposed to the engine would it not have stalled it then and there five days ago. Or would the heat generated by the engine evaporate an insignificant amount of water and expel it through the exhaust... Also i started it once last night after stalling initially and apparently the shop started it again today.

ErickUa5

You might just have a huge vacuum leak, maybe brake booster or bad coil.
Take it to another shop if I were you, a trusted mechanic if possible.

randomthought

There is no way that much water could get into through the CAI. I personally have never been in deep water, just some heavy rain(for San Francisco) and some puddles on the road. From videos I've seen and threads I've read, water would need to be coming into the cabin before the filter gets to the point it starts sucking up water.

If it is hydrolocked, engine is fsked and should not be able to start at all.

Skirmich

I had my AEM V2 for YEARS and being multiple times to car washes..
You should need to submerge the CAI in deep water to being able to hydrolock the engine.. Even direct splashes aren't enough and the heat from the inside of the engine would evaporate the water before filling the combustion chamber... So to repeat unless you submerged your car to the point water was going inside from your doors then the CAI could not suck enough water to hydrolock the engine.


You could have a Head Gasket leak which is evaporating your anti-freeze thus creating the smoke in the exhaust.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Well supposedly my dad trusts the mechanics, he takes all of his fleet vehicles there for basic maintenance... But i'm skeptical especially after the conversation with them on the phone earlier today. I dont understand how they started it if its hydrolocked. I'm gonna get it over to the Acura dealership for sure come Thursday morning. It seems like B.S. to me so I'm hoping its a less serious problem. And like i said earlier the carwash was the most water it's seen in days it's been completely dry since. Thanks for your Input guys. Happy New Year!

Rob7886

Hydro lock! N0 WAY! Unless you forgot about that river you trans versed.

Rob7886

Do you still have your splash shields installed? That will protect you from rain and puddles. The TL comes with a CAI stock just not a high flow one.
Thats why we upgrade. Just stay out of Rivers and Lakes and you're good

usdmJON

Definitely not hydrolocked. Hydrolocking is pretty rare unless the intake gets literally submerged like straw. Even then, they wouldn't have started it had your motor used your CAI as a huge silly straw. If it sucked in water through the CAI it would not start and if so it wouldnt run long enough to give them a definite sound.

I dont want to call them liars... maybe it is just their best guess and they literally dont know whats up.

Rob7886

Hydrolocking happens when a Redneck thinks his 4x4 can go through anything. Did the mechanic that looked at your car happened to drive a pick-up?

cant_TL_me_nothing

Yes the splash shields are still installed. And trust me I don't plan on going into a river anytime soon! I think I'm starting to feel better about this whole situation. I'm just gonna hope for the best.

3.2TLc

From what ya previously stated about the incident, hydrolocking should'nt have caused the car's issues, IMO.

~ Have ya done any recent PM or mods besides the CAI ?
~ How had the car been running previously..... prior to it dying ?

~ Did the shop find water in the oil ?
~ Did they drain the oil and pull the plugs ?
~ Was a compression test or leakdown check performed on the cylinders ?
~ When the shop restarted it, was there signs of internal damage caused by hydrolocking bending rods, valves and cracking pistons ?

Nicks2001tl

You definitely need to get your car to another shop a.s.a.p. A tow will cost you much less than a new engine.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Besides the CAI the only other thing that I have done was installing new foglights. Both had cracked lenses and did not work so I replaced both OEM housings with a matte black finished set that i installed myself.
Prior to dying i can say that over the course of the last few days lets say a week or so, it had taking longer for it to turn over when i start it. Maybe like 6-7 seconds, I just thought it may have been the cold weather making it take longer to start. And not surprisingly the shop didn't tell me much of a procedure they just said "it needs a motor." Why? "Well we got it to start and it makes a distinct noise when its hydrolocked" ... more going back and forth with the guy on the phone and he says "yeah we have our best guys working on this who have years of experience and I heard it myself as well and it doesn't sound good, you can come down and we can let you hear it if you want". I didnt ask all the necessary questions about their procedure because I didn't know the things that I do now about hydrolock. I'm definitely gonna ask them how they came to this conclusion besides just hearing a noise which could have been ANYTHING? Like I said before I'm very skeptical, sorry I don't have more answers i'll be going back to the shop on Thursday... since everything is closed today.

Nicks2001tl

Everything in your original post points to an electrical problem lights dimming etc. The original diagnosis of being the alternator might be the correct diagnosis. The only other thing I can think of is that maybe its a battery or the pos. or neg. battery grounds.

cant_TL_me_nothing

That is exactly what I was thinking, when i heard a new engine and hydrolock being the reason it just didnt sound right. Couple that with the shop saying they got a hydrolocked engine to start and run.... I'm just not seeing it. I'm leaning towards an electrical issue.

MarcDavidoff

Yeah I agree- issues like yours are usually simple. You didn't drive thru a river lately so I agree that it sounds like a poor electrical connection or perhaps even your battery has gone bad. Two plates may have shorted

usdmJON

Is your car still at the same shop? Id get it out of those kids hands.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Yeah its still at the same shop, I'm getting it out of there and over to the Acura dealership first thing in the morning. Couldn't do anything today since everything around here is closed.

3.2TLc

Going from the Tireguys to the Dealership.....hmmm !
Hopefully the other guys didn't mess anything up, as you'll end up with a hefty bill to just check out what the problem is at the dealership. Be prepared to tow it out again to a local reputable mechanic to do the actual repairs !!!

An electrical issue would be simple enough to diagnose, and could make the car run badly if the coils were not firing properly. Did ya pull the battery when ya installed the CAI ? The grounds are a common problem with our aging TL's.

ErickUa5

Can you post a video of the issue ?
If possible.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Yeah I would rather get a good idea from the dealership than chancing it with another shop. I don't think they tore too much, if anything, apart in trying to identify the problem. But they did get it to start. "It sounds pretty bad we would have to tear it apart to see what the problem is, with the cost of tearing it apart identifying the problem and doing the work you just need a new engine" It just really annoyed me that they were even at that shop talking about "if he doesn't replace the engine i'll buy it off of him"... Stop eyeing my car and go across the street and pay the $5,000 for the silver ua5 on the corner. A tow to another shop is definitely cheaper than a new engine

Well i'm really hoping it is an electrical issue, that would make my day. And no we left the battery in when we installed the CAI.

cant_TL_me_nothing

And no I don't have a video of it... I should of took a video of it trying to start when it happened. Well at least I know for next time.

Yikes

Since water isn't something that can be compressed, there would be significant engine damage from bent piston rods to even a hole blown in the side of the block. I could see how a car wash might be suspect, but if you had sucked in water through the intake, it certainly wouldn't have taken five days to damage your engine.


If they could even get the engine running, they would probably hear a lot of rod knock. It would be pretty hard to miss. I think they're trying to give you a load of shit. I doubt the guy is trying to snag your engine... J32s are pretty cheap out of the junkyard.


Jumping time is also possible, but you would have probably heard the pistons and valves hitting each other (depending on how many teeth were skipped) this isn't something you would have missed.


I have to agree with the others. The evidence leads me to believe the issue is electrical related. In all honesty, hard starting / stalling despite the engine running smoothly points me in the direction of the electronic portion of the ignition switch. They go bad on Hondas all the time.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Sorry I should have made it clearer, If I didn't replace the engine he wanted to buy the car... TL-S with a seemingly bad engine would sell for pretty cheap. The guy would be getting a deal... or a steal whichever is more appropriate.

with everyone's input here I agree I think it is something electrical. Hopefully I'll find out for sure tomorrow.

yody

LOL, what a bunch of crooks, interested to hear the outcome, could be something as simple as a vacuum line popping off, possibly from the CAI install. Who knows, either way, great thread.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Ha, yeah I'll let everyone know how things turn out. I just want my car back! Its been three days already and i'm missing her like crazy. I appreciate everyone's help and input helping me shed some light on the situation. I hope its something simple. I'm glad everyone was so willing to help and I'll be sure to post again later to update everyone.

fsttyms1

The shop is ripping you off saying its hydrolocked because of the cai, especially if there hasnt been any water that its been driven thru. Id find a different shop.


1 question though. When you installed it did you disconnect any vacuum lines on or near the TB? If you did its possible you connected one of the TB coolant heater lines to a vacuum causing the engine to draw in coolant??

Id find a different shop, one that actually knows what they are doing, I may not go to the dealer though. And i definately would NOT pay for this shops work..

cant_TL_me_nothing

I'm sorry, what do you mean by TB? We did disconnect the coolant hose and replace it with a slightly longer hose to get it to fit around the CAI.

Yes i definitely need to find another shop. The dealership does sound like the expensive option. I refuse to pay for the work at this shop. I always get at least a second opinion.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Well, we can't get towed today, my insurance company has free towing services, but because of all this great northwest Ohio snow ETA's for the tow trucks are in excess of 8 hours. I got scheduled for a tow at 7 in the morning so it will get checked out then.

I called the Acura dealership and they are skeptical as well they said if it did hydrolock it would be due to a head gasket if anything in which case the coolant system would not be full. The Acura service guys seemed really helpful and willing to help.

victus1

OMFG....If you don't want to replace the engine, then I will buy it off you for $cheap$ ???? WTF!


Are there any Honda tuner or specialty shops in your area? These guys will figure out what is wrong in a jiffy!

cant_TL_me_nothing

I know of a few tuner shops and i've seen a few honda's out there but I think their expertise is with subie's and Evo's, Their parking lot is full with them.

Yikes

TB is throttle body.


If your head gasket was bad and you ran it long enough for it to get hydrolocked, you would have had some serious overheats before that point.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Yeah, No over heats. I usually keep a close eye at my gauges and i'm fairly sure it was running around a normal temperature. And when all of this happened there was no smoke that i can recall. I did not get out of the car because I was in traffic sitting at a stop light when it happened so wasn't able to confirm any smoke. But I know from checking my mirror multiple times, in fear of getting rear ended by an inattentive driver on a fast somewhat blind curve approaching the light, that the car had no billowing smoke coming from the exhaust. So i'm doubting the head gasket as well.

acurarsx04

I'm really curious to see what the diagnosis is. Hopefully your engine is okay. I've only see one I hyrdolocked engine come to my shop since I started working there. Water got into the motor through the oil fill hole. A water bottle spilled and like 10ozs of water split in. The guy started the car and left in running not knowing water had got in.

cant_TL_me_nothing

Me too. It feels like its been weeks that I've been without my car. All i know is that whatever the diagnosis is I'm gonna look into getting an AEM bypass valve or a hydroshield (prefilter) for the damn thing if everything turns out alright. Just preventative... I know it doesn't water proof it 100% and i won't be crossing any rivers any time soon. But it'll give me some peace of mind when it comes to splashes and car washes.

Yikes

What ever helps you sleep at night, honestly. I'm just anxious to hear about any updates from these guys you took your car to.

cant_TL_me_nothing

I don't want to talk too much with the shop about the situation while the car is in their hands. Once its towed away in the morning I'll be asking about their procedures and updating everyone... it really sucks it couldn't get towed today!

3.2TLc

Hey Cant_TL_me_nothing, so today is Friday and you had arranged having your TL towed from Tireman to the Acura dealership today @ 7am......Good Luck !!!

Chances are slim that the service writer will be able to give ya any procedural details concerning your car's diagnostics other than to tell ya to have a seat in the lounge room while the assigned technician checks out the basics.

For anything of particular personal concern, you will need to fully inform the dealership's service manager of the previous circumstances and then request any special tests relevant to the hydrolocking or electrical system. These guys don't like to be told how to do their job, so be tactful about things.