jjar03

If somebody (the more of you the better) with real experience who has done this before, please let me know what is needed so that I can access the screw and drain the coolant from the engine block?
How hi do I need to raise the car?
Which tool to you use (which one works the best)?
Any tricks or tips?

I do have a shop manual according to which the screw is located roughly above oil drain plug but when I was changing my engine oil the last time I was not able to see it. That may be means that car needs to be raised higher. I use ramps for my oil change and certainly hope that this screw can be accessed if the car is raised using ordinary floor jack.

01tl4tl I guess you know for sure? Please give me as much details as possible.

Thanks a lot in advance!

ou sig

I finally found that bolt using the picture in the manual. it is way the heck up there and buried. I decided to not even mess with draining the engine this way. just drained the radiator like normal and ran the engine until it dumped more out when it cycled. be careful doing this to not overheat the engine. it will not get all of the old coolent out but will get most of it.

sorry to not give you any real help to your question, but thought my experience may help your decision.

jjar03

Thanks. In my case, I am getting ready to change my timing belt/water pump, so if I want to change the water pump I need to find the way to drain the coolant from the block.

01tl4tl

Its much easier than it appears
Remove passenger side front wheel
Look between the CV bearing shroud and the exhaust pipe, on the back of the engine block
see that little bolt- 8 mm iirc, or some years have a butterfly valve built into that bolt, same as the radiator drain plug

Its important to get all the old fluid drained out, run clean water thru and do it again if in doubt
Most gen2s should still look good in the radiator- but its due on time
I dont trust coolant past 5 years- additives go acidic in an aluminum environment= bad news

01tl4tl

Be sure to follow the TL owner book method of burping air after coolant change
Its different than other cars- requires different rpm's and fan cycles on and off- adding coolant- more cycles...and the heater has to be on full hot so the heater core is open- the air likes to hide there

acutee

the engine coolant drain valve is easy to find. Raise the car high enuf, safe and secure to crawl under, right behind the engine (below to the left of your brake fluid reservoir, just to give you an idea), you will see a 20 degree valve tube, I think it is 10mm, plug a hose to it, then open the plug valve. make sure heat is on max position.

01tl4tl

Yours is WHERE?!?

My 01 is on the passenger side between exhaust downpipe and cv bearing
easy access thru right fender/tire area with tire removed
From underneath- not a chance

The Radiator drain is on lower driver side corner and twist to open

Years may vary on location and need for hose extension or abilty to hook one up
My car- not a chance

jjar03

Thanks for the revelation! I hope it is easy to access. And for the second gen TL, it is definitely on the right side, the shop manual confirms that.
Did you put the hose on or is that necessary in terms of not to make a mess and spill the coolant all over the place?

As for the suggestion to run the clean (I guess tap water) water through it, that would be a big NO in my book and here is the reasoning why NOT:

As per manual, page 2-5, the total coolant capacity (includes engine + rad, heater, hoses and reservoir) is 7.9 US qt (7.5 liters). Coolant change capacity is 5.9 US qt (5.6 liters). So it is obvious that after you drain it from the radiator and the engine block, there is 2 whole quarts left in (that is why the coolant needs to be changed more frequently after you change it for the first time). Running tap water through it would leave it with 2 quarts of water in the system. Worst yet, that is tap water with all the crap in it. Coolant mixture is done with distilled (purified) water. Plus, that would leave you with significantly less then 50:50 mixture that is desired.

jjar03

…and just for the record the radiator drain plug is located in the lower right corner of the rad itself on both engines J32A1 and J32A2. So it is on the passenger side as well.

01tl4tl

I get under the car on the creeper and lose all sense of direction--its somewhere on the bottem of the radiator

Use a catch pan and plan for a mess with the coolant--that could be year dependant on using a hose--cars with butterfly valve may be able to use hose

01tl4tl

50/50 dilution is not the end-all in how to use coolant-
its really based on ambient temps- you dont want it stronger than 50 coolant or its too thick to flow properly
Honda sells it premix at 50/50

acutee

You are right. My bad, it is on passenger side. I got messed up with other cars I worked on.

UWgrad

Hey jjar03,
You mentioned that you are going to change the timing belt/water pump. Is this pretty easy to do? I have the helm manual, but have never changed it myself. Do you need any special tools other than the basic sockets, etc. How long does it take to do this job?
Thanks

acutee

If you follow MotionEffects timing belt threat, that would cover 90% what you need to do.

- You need 19mm 1/2" socket, 1/2" extension 24" long, a 1/2" breaker bar and an at least 3' pipe extension for leverage. Get good tools forthis, we - my friend and I managed to crack these 1/2" cheap tools and socket. get 6-point socket if possible.

- 1- adjustable stand for leveling your 1/2" extension

- You need a 14mm, 10 degree, 8" or 9" long offset wrench for serpentine belt removal. You will need a short pipe for this wrench. I find this wrench works better than the serpentine tool, due to the length of the serpentine tool it cannot go down further for the tensioner to rest itself to remove the tool. my wrench was set free below the ps reservoir when the tensioner rests itself.

- You need honda 50mm crank holder tool
- you need 1/2" slide-able handle. normally about 12" long. you will find the sliding handle works nicely to lock it against the frame.

- 1 deep socket 12mm for the PS tension nut.

Besides that, you need other regular tools, and follow safety procedures. It is not that hard, but will be tough if this was your first time doing it. You must take all the time you have, don't rush. Give yourself like 10hrs.

01tl4tl

the `honda pulley removal tool` is 20 bucks thru kragen.com
Invaluable in removing the pulley bolt which is on with 181 foot pounds torque
Thats nearly 3 times that of wheel lug torque!!

2 day job, do the valve adjustment and egr port cleaning/ intake runner tubes of the intake manifold while you already have everything apart

Perfect time to install a lightweight crank pulley or thermoblock spacer -things are apart

01tl4tl

fyi: shops charge 6-10 hours + valve adjust time of 2 hours more and any problems they run into and cabin filter or other odd bits

Would suggest all fluids be changed- brake fluid, power steering along with the coolant

jjar03

acutee, I have to ask for this, what is this and what do you use if for when doing the belt change?

“you need 1/2" slide-able handle. normally about 12" long. you will find the sliding handle works nicely to lock it against the frame.”

If this is referring to the handle you use for the Honda pulley tool, why wouldn’t ordinary ½” breaker bar be good enough?

BTW, I've purchased pulley tool here:

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648.../dp/B0000TMLWQ



As for “serpentine belt”, I tried it myself, and ordinary 14mm open end/box end wrench works as well with the addition of short extension and 10mm deep socket.
You put the box end to the bolt head (tensioner bolt) and use short or not too long extension and 10mm deep socket on it to put the socket on the open end wrench end to get the leverage.

Also, I bought caps for sockets (in this way you can manipulate the socket with the box end wrench) in the hope that it will be easier to access those belt cover bolts, especially rear belt cover.

I have already asked but did not get an answer.

What did you use for those hard to access belt cover bolts, especially rear one?

Since this is the first time for me, I would like to hear all the other tips and tricks when it comes to t-belt+water pump change from you who did it already.

acutee

Yes, the 1/2" breaker bar with the slide handle will be used with the crank holding tool. Any breaker bar will work, but if the handle is long and the angle of the holding tool is not right it will be hard to manipulate it; that is for removing the crank bolt. When installing the crank bolt, then you have to find another angle for that breaker to fit right. With the 1/2" I am talking about, it is so easy, just set it underneath the wheel arm, and when installing the bolt, slide the handle, raise it up, and set it on top of the wheel arm, just that easy. This is the tool I am talking about.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

The rear and front cover each has 5 screws, the bottom one has 7. The front and bottom is easy to do, but the rear cover with the rear two screws are tough to do. This was my most time consumming part. I have big hands, so it was impossible for me to do them all. My friend had helped me with these screws. I find it surprised that anyone or dealer has put all these screws back. I personally couldn't do it.

One other thing you want to keep in mind is adjusting the PS pump. The adjusting screw does not work as you think. I didn't need to use it. that is why some members have ruined the PS pump after tighten it all up. Try this, set the belt loose, press the belt in as far to tough the middle, now tight up the 2 screws, check the tension, then you can decide from there. My friend had to do like 10 times to get it right for me to come up with this technique. Even if you measure the bolt before loosing the nut, it won't work right. I tighten the nut after the right tension was set.

jjar03

This is certainly a good tip for the breaker bar, thanks for that.

1) You did not mention which tool did you use for rear cover bolts???
2) I did not quite get this P/S tip, can you elaborate?

acutee

1. We have like 3 different angle offset box wrenches 60,10, flat, and regular 10mm socket. My friend had to fiddle with all these tools little by little to get it off. He tried from the top, then tried from the bottom. My hand(s) would not fit in there. Installing it was quicker, but did take time. I don't think the cap socket will work, but you have to try. We didn't have one. the reason is with 2-part tool, the socket would drop before you can turn it.

2. keep in mind you have 2 bolts and 1 tension nut that I will not repeat here. Mark the position of the tension nut before releasing it just to be safe for any reason, one member mentioned that, and it is easy to do so. To remove, release the tension nut all the way to remove the belt. Now to install the belt, put the belt back on, press on the belt from the front (like a tensioner/roller) make sure the belt touches the middle (could be engine bracket or other thing there), if the belt does not touch the middle, the belt could be too tight when you screw in the 2 bolts. As you can see, I am not even using the tension nut to adjust the tension at all. If belt is loose, release the bolts and use the tension nut according. For me, I tight up the tension nut after everything else was done and tension was right. But all that is just me, maybe someone else has better way of doing it.

jjar03

That is side engine mount bracket that you are referring to. Currently the way it is from the factory, if you press it form the front, it does not touch the bracket.
Some rule of the thumb says that the proper tension is such that belt can be rotated by ¼ turn i.e. 90 degrees, that is also the case the way it is currently. Anyway, thanks for your inputs on this. I will also try to measure deflection now and also measure position of the tension nut.

I have to give it a try before I finally attempt it to see weather socket cap on the socket will work. I too, have large hands and those bolts are my biggest concern. If I am able to jam my hand inside and put the socket on the bolt head, I should be good.

01tl4tl any input from you on these bolts? How did you do it?

I am supposed to change my engine oil tomorrow which will be good opportunity to check that famous engine block coolant drain bolt as well.

01tl4tl

look in gen3 garage section for a 100k service DIY instructions
Its the same

acutee

One section I mentioned about setting the crank holder against the "wheel arm", correction here: my friend said that was not the wheel arm, it was actually, the frame part that runs across to the other side. that frame has 1" lip. to remove the crank bolt, you set it under that frame. to install, you set the bar right on topt of that lip. the timing TDC was in perfect position when we cracked the crank bolt loose.

I am not saying to leave the PS belt that loose, but set it that loose when you are tightening up the 2 bolts and the belt will get tighten up itself.

01tl4tl

the ps belt tension is crucial and too tight will kill the ps pump

jjar03

Thanks, now this is good to know. It makes sense (interestingly the book does not mention this) that the belt gets further tightened when the nut and bolt get tightened i.e. when the p/s pump is in the fully tightened position.

BTW, just changed my oil and finally saw the coolant bolt on the block. I did not remove the wheel, the car was on the ramps and I was able to see it from underneath. It is definitely hard to access. I did not have too much time, so the plan is to look it up on Sunday, hopefully figure out the correct hose diameter as well as which tool to use. It seems that ordinary wrench will be too short.

01tl4tl

Im telling you from experience - remove the passenger front wheel and you can reach in with a wrench from the side

jjar03

Well, just done my preliminary exercise and here are my findings so far.
Again, car on ramps, from underneath, I figured that some connector is right in your way (still not sure what is it). When I removed that connector, with my pretty large hands, I was able to push my hand inside and that seems to be the ultimate solution for this. There is also cylindrical in shape metal “thing” that obstructs the access (this along with that connector is actually what makes it hard to access this bolt), again, I am not sure yet what is it.
The bolt is actually 12mm bolt with the diameter of 8mm where you are supposed to put the hose on. So I guess, 7mm inside diameter clear hose should be right fit for this (with previously heated one end under hot water to soften it so it will easier go on the bolt) to avoid making the mess (this definitely applies to 99-03 i.e. second gen TL including TL-s). The car was raised exactly 16 inches, measured from the concrete floor to the front middle jack point.

Also, while at it, I was able to see that those 2 hard to access bolts on the rear t-belt cover should be accessible from underneath; at least the lower one is for sure.
So slowly but surely I am gathering data to make this project a little faster, safer, less stressful and hopefully successful. To some, this may look like overkill, but experience is teaching me that good preparation is the key. I have to find/buy the hose and give it a try and will let you know.

01tl4tl

those things in the way are the exhaust pipe and cv joint/bearing
Why not just TEST my method- which was told to me by our megaguru

remove the passenger wheel and wa-lah!! there is the bolt-
no pushing- shoving- removal of 3 layers of skin from hand etc
Work smarter not Harder

jjar03

It is not that I disagree with you, do not get me wrong, in this case it was easier for me to use ramps, so I did not remove the wheel. Plus, I wanted to take a look at that t-belt cover once again from underneath. But again, the bottom line with this is neither CV joint nor exhaust pipe; access is the best from the side, so in that sense you are correct. But the drain bolt is obstructed from all sides and the side access is obstructed by, as far as I was able to see, VTEC solenoid valve body (cylindrical in shape metal “thing”) plus connectors. Removing one connector that is in the way finally makes enough clearance, regardless of the way you want to access this bolt. Again, this seems to be the only way (at least for the people with large hands like me), so that you are able to access the bolt properly, put the hose on it, and do it right.

01tl4tl

I have a large catch pan and a can of engine cleaner~

tlzib

Im surprised no one has taken a pic of this bolt by now.

01tl4tl

there is at least one floating around here--what thread its lost in is the question