peewizzle

hey guys, here's the story. my car has been having starting issues for the past month. I am at 122k miles now and am overdue for timing belt change. the past month, maybe once a week my car won't start on first key turn. it takes me a good 4-5 key turns and then it'll finally start.

anyways, i just did a full tune up within the month, full oil change, plugs, filters. doesn't seem like the start is the issue, i've never had to tap on it like my past cars and it doesn't look rusty or anything.

can an old timing belt that's overdue for a change cause the engine to take a few turns to start? i freaked out after being told it can be a symptom so i booked a last minute appt at a honda specialist next to my work. they said they'll do it $400 timing belt only + labor. but no water pump or anything else included--, that's an extra $250. i am pretty much strapped for cash and this is my only last min option unfortunately

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

If you just do the timing belt it's a waste of time. Either save to do the full job or DIY.

3.2TLc

Have your electrical (starting & charging) system load tested. This service is normally free at most auto parts stores. Check all of the electrical connections and grounds. Maybe the ignition switch or an interlock is causing the repeated attempts of starting ?

By all means, check the electrical stuff before suspecting the T-belt as the problem. Do you have any other associated problems once it's started and running ?

peewizzle

the crap thing is don't have the money to do a full and i'm worried about how long this will last. i don't have a second vehicle to drive either. i'm comfortable with DIY on other things but timing isn't one of them

peewizzle

car runs great other than that occasional starting issue. it's maintained well, other than the fact that i'm WAYYY past the 105k timing belt service. i have a check engine light that's on, but it's for my downstream oxygen sensor. if it is another issue, i hope it's not anything serious. i've read about the ignitions needing to be changed out on our gen and really have NO idea where to start with that haha

either way...i need this timing belt changed

randomthought

Timing belt is a long job, but not too difficult. I had trouble with finding proper tools, but that was it. The entire kit can be had for 400 bucks, so it might be worth it to do the job yourself.

Do you insert key and go straight to start? Or do you let the fuel pump build up pressure before starting? Is it cranking normally or slow?

victus1

That's not a timing belt issue since your car runs fine after your start it. And don't ever just change the belt. You must change the water pump, idler pulley, tensioner and tensioner pulley....or risk failure and engine destruction down the road.

If that guy is indeed a Honda specialist, he should be able to diagnose your cold start problem. But he just wants easy business. Personally, I would start with a full intake system and egr port hole cleaning to remove all the carbon gunk built up. Search our diy for this. You can do it yourself for $15 in carb cleaner and throttle body and egr gaskets. A sticking egr valve or iacv valve can cause this problem too.

peewizzle

hmm...usually when i go to start up i immediately just turn the key as soon as i insert it...is that bad?

i shouldn't have waited so long to get this service done, i'm def kicking myself in the ass right now at work.

peewizzle

here's the guy's shop website--http://www.autosciences.com/

he's pretty well known in this tight knit community and a lot of my customers, i am a rental manager for toyota, swear by him. he's located a few buildings down from my work so i decided it's most convenient to choose him.

i called him earlier today and he was able to squeeze me in for tomorrow morning timing job even though it was last minute. he told me he doesn't believe my timing belt should cause the starting issue and he would check too but since i'm 17k overdue i told him either way i need it done. he told me $400 he will do the timing belt with oem parts and if he believes the pump and tensioner etc need to be done he will give me a call before he proceeds.

3.2TLc

Do the simple basic stuff first ! Start with the battery and the cable terminals, then the grounds. Clean up all the connections including the starter. An intermittent problem may be either the switch going bad or perhaps a dead spot on the starter motor ?

Try to eliminate these things before blowing good money on a half-fast T-belt job. What are ya gonna do if the new T-belt doesn't fix the problem, Huh....$$ $$....?

peewizzle

Since everyone saying don't half ass the timing belt I'll just put the full $650 job on my charge card then. Is $650 a good price for the full job?

As for battery terminals I just looked and they're clean. I replaced with a new one last fall. Starter I've already checked and it looks clean. Idk how to check coil packs but I'll pull plugs again tonight to inspect them.

peewizzle

well i've pulled plugs and decided eh, why not just throw new ones in while i'm at it. so i put ngk v powers in, i had iridium ix previously i put in february 2013, and looks like there's slight discoloration on the front plugs, the rears look ok. i'm wondering if that has anything to do with my downstream sensor...to risk sounding stupid i'm pretty positive my downstream o2 sensor has something to do with it...



how long does a starter usually last for our 2g? i'm hoping @ 122k it doesn't need to be replaced already...though this is an 11 year old car

victus1

$650 for a 5 part service (belt, water pump, idler pulley, tensioner, tensioner pulley) is a good price. Once he has the timing covers off, it takes mere minutes to remove and install all new parts.

RC99TL

Plugs look fine considering the miles.
The O2 sensors are both after the join of the front and rear cylinder down pipes (one in the A-pipe before the flex joint and one in the center of the cat -49 state version at least) so they affect fuel mixture the same for both banks. One reads the exhaust before the cat one reads it in the cat adjusting the engine management as needed and monitoring the condition of the cat itself.

HairyMonkey019

iTrader: (7)

Is it normal for the bottom middle one to be a bit dirtier than the rest?

TLer trash

It looks to me like the plug wasn't tightened enough, allowing combustion gases to leak past the gasket and up the threads and onto the porcelain. Other than that they look fine in my opinion.

Skirmich

To Answer your Question:

NOPE Your timing belt has nothing to do with your starting issues..
Timing Belts dont stretch they just wear out to the point they will skip a mark then you will have bigger problems.

Your Issue might be Related to your Starter OR Your Battery.

And your Spark Plugs looked Fine and Healthy.
The Middle one being Hotter than the rest might be becouse of some Ignition Problems try to switch the coil pack and see if, in the new location it does the same thing. Change Coil pack accordingly.

peewizzle

how long do the starters usually last on the 2G? connections and exterior looked fine but who knows haha

anyways got the service done, $670 after tax for everything, plus the owner gave me 1 year/unlimited mile warranty for service so that gives me piece of mind.

checked coilpacks and no discoloration or anything at the ends and replaced all plugs so hopefully no issues any time soon *crosses fingers

Skirmich

Starters dont have a fixed Lifespan they could outlast your engine as much as they could crap faster..

You usually start to notice Starter problems when the car needs more than a 2 second crank to start.. If your car is taking longer its clear you have an Issue. A healthy car should start in less than a 2 Second crank, around 1 to 1.5 second at least my car does it until today.

peewizzle

hmm, i'll time my startup after work. i'll see if i have a multimeter laying around to check alternator too. what should it be cranking while running, 13V or 14V?

starters are $90 on rockauto so i guess that's not too bad if i have to replace

Skirmich

A good alternator should give a constant flow of 14.3v to 14.4v.. in Some situations it can go down to 14.2 but its quite rare.. Easy way to check is in cold when the coils are cold they should give maximum output at 14.4 DEAD... Then when heated it should fluctuate 14.3 to 14.4 and Reeving should not change the Reading since there is no actual load in Park or Neutral.

If your alternator is in bad shape it would be doing a constant -14.2v.. a Faulty Alternator will give less than 14v = Time to Change ASAP.

3.2TLc

So Peewizzle, did your mechanic find anything that may be causing the starting problems ? .........

peewizzle

he said he checked the alternator and it's fine. he cleaned my battery terminals and starter solenoid wire anyways and said other than my CEL for downstream o2, my car is running tip top. he did say he's done TL starters, but that's not one of the usual problems he sees. never told me the voltage it's cranking while running though so i'm hoping to dig up a multi meter somewhere in my garage to check. i timed my starts since yesterday after work and i'm counting a 1.5 second start so hope that's a good sign.

3.2TLc

If everything checked out, it could be the ignition switch or possibly the relay.
Have the starter motor bench tested if the problem persists.

peewizzle

Hope ignition won't have to be replaced anytime soon ahhh

3.2TLc

Maybe it will all just go away. New T-belt and rims.....ya know !
Ya never really know, but maybe....just maybe, it'll be ok.

RC99TL

Just looked at the pics again and it looks like the crush washers on the plugs are not very "crushed".
Could be you are leaking compression - especially when cold and that could be a cause of the starting issue. The center plug with the worst blow-by marks looks like it was only finger tight at best.

peewizzle

hmm..makes sense. when i tighten plugs i don't torque them real hard...

RC99TL

Here ya go:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinf...stallation.asp

buzzkillington503

one thing i would check is the ignition switch, i found it was the culprit on my 96 tl 4 years ago.

ErickUa5

I read on other threads about long cranking time and they mentioned to Check the fuel pressure regulator or it could be a leaking fuel injector before start up.