Kazelob

I have a 2003 Acura TL 3.2l. Friday before last car wouldn't start when I am on the way home from work. Turned out the battery was shot, couldn't even be jumped. Put new battery in, but could not start it without putting it in neutral. Fast forward about 5 days later. Issue happens again. Couldn't jump it, but after disconnecting terminals and reconnecting them car started right up. Fast forward to 4 days ago and the car wouldn't start at the Walmart Parking lot.

So far I have:

Verified battery is good (currently going between 12.6-12.8v)
Verified starter is good
Replaced ground lead to the block and body (last cable showed some signs of weathering)
Checked all fuses

Today took my multi meter out there and verified I am getting correct voltage to the starter, the trigger for when you turn the key, the ground, and not losing any voltage between the posts and terminals. The immobilizer isn't flashing and the next step for me is to remove the steering column covers and see if any of the wires from behind the ignition came loose. When I turn the key, I can hear a whirring. sound.

I am at a complete loss. Any tips here?

thoiboi

How did you verify the starter was good?

Kazelob

Took it to both O'reilly and AutoZone. Said the starter was engaging and spinning correctly. I figure they would only lie about it not working to sell me a part, and my local O'reilly guy is awesome.

Iggy

When the problem happens, are you saying that it's just the starter that isn't working and everything else appears to be normal?

Are you using your multimeter when it's starting ok?
Can you be more specific as to what a "whirring sound" is? Is this possibly the fuel pump?
When you replaced the battery, did you clean the insides of the wire ends?
Can you reproduce the symptom by wiggling the shifter or the key?
Does the gear indicator light on the dash show "P" when in park or "N" when in neutral consistently?

Intermittent problem can be a bear to diagnose so you need to be able to reproduce the problem and troubleshoot when it's actually happening.

Kazelob

Are you using your multimeter when it's starting ok? - No, it hasn't started for about a week now.

Can you be more specific as to what a "whirring sound" is? Is this possibly the fuel pump? - I don't think so, seems to be coming from the bay itself. Going to pull the fuel pump relay today and see if that's good.

When you replaced the battery, did you clean the insides of the wire ends? - No. Positive cable is perfect, and as mentioned above new ground strap going to body as well motor.

Can you reproduce the symptom by wiggling the shifter or the key? - I can not get it to start at all. Haven't in almost a week. So, the symptom is still there.

Does the gear indicator light on the dash show "P" when in park or "N" when in neutral consistently? - Yes. First thought was the Neutral Safety Switch, but gears light uo just fine as I change them.

whitetiger5

Agree with Kazelob: what's the whirring sound? the fuel pump?

It sounds like you have eliminated the starter as the problem: the service manual suggests checking the connections between your under-dash fuse box and the starter THEN checking the shift position indicator...but you mentioned that you had to put it into neutral in order for it to start. THAT sounds like shift position indicator.

There is a procedure in the service manual on how to test it for fault AND adjust it should it have been moved (very unlikely unless work has been done) recently.

Saudade

Well, I've had starters test good but were bad after all.

Again, the whirring sound. Do you hear it only when you turn the key to START? If so, it may be the starter motor spinning but the Bendix drive it not engaging or the "clutch" in it is shot.

If you grab the pinion gear and turn it, it should turn with some resistance but only in one direction.

thoiboi

agreed.


whirring sound is probably the starter not engaging the flywheel

Kazelob

Pulled the starter to bench test last night and the wheel was spinning so slow I could almost stop it with my fingers. New starter in and car is working fine.

Saudade

Thanks for posting back!

Abraham Shield

So a quick follow-up question related to the O.P.'s problem. I have a very consistant no-crank no-start issue that has totally stumped me. I've used the search function ad-nauseum and thought I found the answer THREE different times, but none of them have fixed my problem.

So its a 2003 Acura TL-P with 153K miles. When trying to start vehicle, turn key to on and all dash lights come on, no security system warning. Try to crank/start and nothing happens, not a click or a buzz noise, just silence. At this point if I leave the key in "on" posiiton and go touch a wire from 12V battery positive terminal to the starter solenoid coil wire, the starter cranks normally and car starts every single time. However, I have to use the shifter interlock bypass next to the shifter to get vehicle out of Park or it stays locked in position even with foot on the brake and engine running. You can't hear the interlock solenoid disengage when you apply brake pedal like you normally can.

I have no 12V at the starter solenoid when the key is turned to the "start" position, so power is not going to the starter.

Not a fuel pump relay problem as I have never had a crank no-start issue. I checked fuel pressure anyway (using the fuel pressure gauge at my shop) and its right in spec.

My testing so far is: Found slightly corroded ground from trans to frame, removed and cleaned, reinstalled. Cut off corroded and slightly loose positive battery cable terminal and installed 0 Gauge solder on style quality terminal.

Thought the brake interlock switch (down at brake pedal) was bad, it tested slightly intermittent for continuity, so I replaced it with OE switch but no change.

Removed the under dash panel and steering column cover and pulled the ignition switch wiring harness from the computer. Pin tested all wiring for the ignition switch (as per AllData wiring diagram and testing procedures) for continuity and function through all ignition positions. Everything testing okay, two different times I've checked it.

Used both OE keys that I have, doesn't make a difference,

However, if I turn the key on, jump the starter solenoid, and use the shift interlock to shift from park, I could drive to New York as everything works great (HVAC, radio, cruise control, lighting, everything). It can't be a security system issue as it doesn't disable anything that I can tell.

HELP! I only ask as I haven't found any answers in any of the many threads I've browsed, it's always "fuel pump relay", sometimes the "ignition switch", or a security issue.

Thanks for any ideas or help you could direct my way.

Saudade

OK, so first. You should start this as a new post so we can focus on your issues and not the OPs. Not a big deal but it helps you find your stuff and can simplify search results.

Next, the starter and interlock are, most likely, independent issues. I can turn my key to RUN (engine off), press the brake and hear the interlock solenoid click.

What do you actually do when "jumping the solenoid"? Are you bridging the 2 large terminals with a screwdriver or something, or are you applying 12v to the small terminal? What wire are you "touching" to make it work? Is the the battery cable or some other?

If you can consistently jump the solenoid with the key on and crank the engine, then the issue is likely the solenoid itself or the trigger wire on the solenoid.

My son's Mazda has the same interlock issue. It won't disengage when cold (1st start of day) but is fine the rest of the day. I have to remove the center console to access it so he just uses a pen casing to bypass it (for now).

My Jeep had an issue with intermittent no crank. It would crank when I jumped the solenoid. Mine turned out to be a badly corroded wire that energized the solenoid. Since it used a blade terminal I simply clipped, stripped and crimped a new terminal on.

Abraham Shield

Okay, sorry for the post hi-jack... I just got so excited to see a similar issue!

When I jump the starter, I'm actually supplying 12V directly from the battery to the small blade terminal on the starter solenoid, thus supplying the 12V to the solenoid that is normally supplied from the start circuit when the key is turned to "start". I'm not "Bridging or jumping" the large hi-amperage terminals on the starter motor. FYI, the blade terminal is not corroded, and I have no voltage at the blade terminal when the ignition is turned to "start".

When I have the key in "run", with engine running or engine off, I do not hear the shift interlock click or disengage when applying the brake pedal. My brake lights all work fine and have thru this entire process. Maybe I just have a bad shift interlock solenoid, it's just a bit** to disassemble the console to inspect it.

I thought about just changing out the electrical ignition switch assembly since it is a somewhat common failure point but I highly doubt it is the constant issue I"m experiencing due to fact it has tested good both times I've tried.

Saudade

OK, thanks for the clarification. Does it start in neutral? Try moving the shifter (after you bypass the lock) from D-N-R-N-D etc, and repeat a few times. You have an A/T Gear position switch (neutral safety) that prevents cranking when not in Park or Neutral. Perhaps the issue lies there.

Abraham Shield

Yes, it does start in neutral, but obviously it will not start in R, 1, 2, 3, or D. Each time I move the shifter I have to push in the interlock to move from 1,2,3, or D5 into R, or up into P. The neutral safety switch is working (or maybe the range position switch on the TL) but what is not functioning is the shift interlock solenoid down in the shifter assy. My only testing point I haven't tried is physically removing the console and testing for power at the interlock solenoid (in the shifter) when I press on the brake. If I have voltage there, simple enough: replace it. If not, then I have a wiring/switch/ignition issue somewhere that won't let 12V thru to the shift interlock. Every other problem I have seen on A-Zine was solved by changing the brake switch. Not mine, yeah. Of course not the easy switch under the dash... :P

01acls

Shield,

You may have an open circuit from ignition position III to the positive side of the starter solenoid. Do a continuity test on that circuit.

Abraham Shield

That's a good idea, I will try and test that for continuity and see if there is an intermittent break in the wire or if its rubbed thru somewhere. Thanks for the tip!

Saudade

According to my FSM, check the BLK/WHT wire and connectors between the driver's under dash fuse/relay box and the ignition switch, and between the fuse/relay box and the starter. If good, then check the starter cut relay in the under dash fuse/relay box

Saudade

For your interlock, there's a relay under the hood, on firewall driver side. Should be 4 relays under a cover. the one closest to the firewall and passenger should be the interlock relay. There also appears to be a fuse in the under dash fuse/relay. Check them as well.