shahram72

OK, I am going to get started on the rust repairs. From my other thread (Easter arrival), some of you know that I bought an 05 RL from Ohio with 67K miles on it. Got a good price ($15,600), well it would have been good if not for the salt corrosion. I don't think the car would have even been able to be sold here. I would not have bought it. I am really feeling bad about this and it's killing my enthusiasm for the car. Otherwise, the car is very nice and drives like a dream and ALL the electronics work. I did get an extended warranty from my lender. I had no idea this was still an issue with modern cars. I feel like a total idiot! The last car I bought on ebay was a Florida car and has been wonderful for the 4 years we have owned it, and it is 8 years old now. You would think Acura would have applied some undercoating of something. We are trying to get some kind of concessions from the seller so I will be glad to get something. I feel like I bought a salvage car. I guess I should have bought a new Fiesta!

OK, enough complaining, I have it now, and I have to deal with it. I am starting this thread to chronicle my repairs, document with photos, get some advice from you guys, and maybe help out another dupe in the future who bought a northern car.

Let's start on the outside. There is a rust bubble on the bottom of the trunklid, a little around the Acura logo, and a small one hidden under the chrome trim above the license plate. There is no other rust on the body. I have a couple quotes of about $500 to fix, spot paint, and clear the whole trunklid. They say I will be hardpressed to see the repaired areas, the other says I won't see it at all. I am deciding to either leave the bubble and watch it or fix it. Just looking at that bubble everyday pisses me off and makes me feel bad about the car, so if I get anything from the seller I will use that to fix it.

Underneath. It's pretty ugly under there. At least underneath I can fix it myself. It's mostly surface rust that I plan to clean and treat and cover to prevent it's growth. These are the major areas....

pinch welds (jack points)
These are rusty and slightly bubbled, they obviously suffered the spray from the tires. I plan to grind with a wire brush wheel atachment, then paint with Rustoleum Rust Reformer, which is better than just rustoleum paint. It's supposed to bond with and retard rust, because I won't be able to totally remove it all, but if I encapsulate it, it won't grow. I will be removing the plastic rocker panels to completely address this area and then spray with undercoating on top of 2 coats of rustoleum rust reformer.

painted suspension components
The struts near the hubs are quite rusty. I figure a little sanding and the rust reformer.

bolt heads. Every bolt head has superficial rust. I have a wire brush that looks like a toothbrush. I will brush each one and apply the rust reformer. Many on engine and tranny cases.

several sheet metal areas on bottom of car.
I'm going to treat these the same as the pinch welds

Exhaust.
Most of it is stainless steel, thank goodness, but there is a VERY rusted coupling in the middle. That's eventually going to need to be replaced if it fails. Not much I can do with it, so I am going to wire brush it and paint with rustoleum high temp exhaust paint and hope for the best.

tow hook points
The lady who drove this must have thought they were skid plates, because that's what they look like. the welds are really rusty and worry me if it ever has to be used. But there is such a factor of safety in the designs it will probably hold. Rust is DEEP into the hook and weld here. Gonna hit with wire brush and rust remover and then paint.

Brake calipers/rotors
Not much I can do here, the rotors will likely have to be replaced when brakes are done next. They are horribly rusted, worst part of car, they look like the tow hook points. The front caliper is just pitted because it's aluminum, going to clean that one up, hopefully it is still good because that 4 piston caliper must be expensive. Now, I am afraid to remove the wheels. Will they even come off? Will a chunk of rotor come off with them? I will have to put them back on with anti sieze on the surfaces. Any advice here? I need to pull the wheels to check the brack linings, lines, and touch up all the rusty bolts, but am afraid to.

That's about it. I'm trying to source the small plastic clip that holds the bottom of the back bumper cover on at the wheelwell, it is small and the parts diagram is not clear. I have plenty of the 10mm clips. I plan to remove all plastic covers on the bottom and do what I can. hopefully it looks better under those and not worse. The other problem I have is spray paint. I was told by the body shop that I have to mask off the entire car. I cannot do this because I can't do the job in one day. Has to be done over several weekends. I found the rust reformer in a can so I will use foam brushes to apply that, but what about undercoating and areas I can't reach with the brush. I appreciate any help or suggestions from you guys while I try to bring this car up to standard. Right now I am not enjoying it. It's driving me to drink! (not while in the car, of course!)

Pictures will follow as soon as I get the car on ramps and them more updates and pics will follow as I perform the repairs.

shahram72

OK, here are some pictures. I used the rust reformer today. I found that I was not able to remove the rust entirely as I could not get tools in all the nooks and crannies. So I just brushed the loose stuff and coated with that rust reformer. Got the rear bumper area done with 2 or 3 coats of the rust reformer, so the rust is encapsulated. I will coat with rustoleum enamel on those areas tomorrow. I also got the bumper all fixed with the little clip at the bottom and the two large clips in the middle, so it's no longer flapping in the breeze. Feels good to have got something done. I also got my new floormats and many other parts in for my RL and Honda Pilot from oemacuraparts, great service. Thanks Tim!

shahram72

Here are some before pictures. Pretty bad. Most of these parts will hold and I doubt will get much worse without all the salt. But they will hold up even better after I treat all these areas.

shahram72

I applied the Rustoleum rust reformer. I thought it was like a primer. The can said it dried flat black. Not really. It is a white cream and then dries translucent black, almost clear in light dry coats. When it went on, it bubbled at the rust a little bit, not like naval jelly, but some of the rust seemed to disappear, so I kept applying coats as it partially dried to encapsulate the rust. Of course all areas were brushed to remove the loose rust. As you can see from these pics, where it's partially dry, the look of the rust is much less prounced, and this is not from my brushing it with a wire brush. The tow hook actually looks pretty good. It looked protected but I will feel much happier when I coat them with the rustoleum enamel so they will be totally protected from water.

I vtec, do you?

I will be completely honest - I think you're overreacting slightly about all the regrets you're talking about in buying this car over the rust. The rust isn't that bad. It's a car that is several years old and has lived in a wintery climate - that's just life. My 07 Civic with 55k miles on it looks that bad (maybe worse). I live in Minnesota, so it's just something you accept. That being said, yours doesn't look too terrible, and you're getting a solid jump on it, so don't sweat it too much.

GoHawks

I'm inclined to agree with you. The car is 7 years old. The only surprise for me is the rust bubbling in the trunklid. The hood, front fenders and trunk on the car are made of aluminum, and yes while aluminum can corrode, it still surprises me.

My '06 didn't have a bit of rust on the body panels when I traded it in, and it went through Chicago and southeast Michigan winters during it's life.

shahram72

Thanks for your comments guys. You guys are right. I have always been a car guy, I have lived for the past 10 years struggling, Driving horrible mediocrity, I finally bought a Honda Pilot 4 years ago for myself, and loved it, but a year later gave it to my wife as we had another child. I took her 02 Mazda 626. A fine car, but boring as hell. No enthusiast quality whatsoever except for some nice Mazda suspension tuning on a very dated chassis. Now I finally have a car I am proud of and I get to deal with all this. I guess I should be very happy that nothing is broken, everything works and it is very low miles. The car looks beautiful overall. You cannot see these defects just walking around it casually. I had it good. No debt, very little left on my house, and an adequate income. Now I go get this car, and went on vacation the week before to Orlando and I'm spending money left and right and have balances on my cards and it stresses me out. It's not worth all this stress. There are times that make me wish I just had my Mazda back. I did not NEED this car. But I deserved something better. Fixing the car makes me feel better.

Should I fix the bubbles on the trunklid if I get some money back from the seller? It's going to cost $500. Both shops I spoke to want to spot paint and then clear the whole thing. They say it will yield the least noticeable repair.

BluNosr2

The body rust you have is actually a bit unusual for a northern climate car. Where I have seen virtually every Honda/Acura product start to let go here (including my friend's 2005 RL) is in the wheel arch to bumper/fender transition area in the rear wheel wells. It's so common, bodyshops here call it "Honda rot", and is apparently due to the fact that Honda uses a folded seam while most other manufacturers do a bonded surface. My friend's 05 RL is also showing rust signs under the door handles where they meet the door panel.

shahram72

I already have the rear wheel arch plastic trims on hand to address those and replace the trims with new. They were $20 for both. Yes, the body shops are puzzled about the rust on the aluminum. The one under the license plate chrome trim was a bit open so I opened it a bit more to look. It's not red under there. It's grey-white and chaulky, like aluminum pitting. I put some touch up over it, you can't see it anyway.

I finished the rear bumper area today. Here are some pics after 2 coats of rust refromer and 1 coat of silver oil enamel. I did put another coat on after the pictures and got some of the areas I missed, but some I just can't reach. They should last the life of the car in those missed areas I think. I just didn't want the visible rust to grow and really rot. Next weekend I will do the rear suspension and hopefully the rocker panel, which I need to figure out how to remove, and then the weekend after I will do the front area, which should be a pain with all the bolts to scrape and touch up.

I feel a little better about the car now. Especially after seeing threads of other purchasers who paid much more or got much more miles on the car. Still, I think this rust should have been disclosed.

I vtec, do you?

Yeah, like I said, don't sweat it too much. You could literally avoid doing everything you're doing and that rust wouldn't cause you a problem for a long, long time. The fact that you're actually dealing with it tells me that you take care of your things, so you will likely never have an issue because of these things.

And that bubbling under the paint - I don't think that's rust. I've seen it on other cars as well. I'm not sure what it is, almost as if the paint just stops adhering and bloats out. I've even painted things that were made of plastic and have witnessed it on there. Likely just a paint defect. That being said, I really wouldn't want a shop spot-painting it. Paint never matches consistently - it's why they blend panels (at least good shops do). If they just throw some paint on the middle of your panel, you most certainly will notice a difference in the paint, even if they clear over the whole thing. That would bug the crap out of me, personally.

neuronbob

I agree with the other posters in that the rust doesn't look that bad. The only surprising rust is on the trunk lid. Maybe there was an impact there (rock impact that is) there or something.

At least you are on top of it so it likely won't get worse.

shahram72

I thought that as well, but both shops told me that the slight difference would be MORE noticeable if they painted the whole panel because of the sharp edge and that they would blend the patches. So I don't know, I might not even do it, but it's all about how I feed about the car and every day I go to put my bag in the car and look at that spot and it bothers me. But an off shade patch would bother me as well. On the bottom of the trunklid edge there was a paint ship that was never touched up, that's where it came from. I touched it up so hopefully it will not grow.

Does rust need moisture to grow? I thought that absent moisture, it could not grow. It's the repeated wetting and drying that causes the chemical reaction, right? That's why I am making all the repairs in the bottom. I can't remove the rust, but I can encapsulate it.

The problem is anything that is touched under there will need replacement. I'm going to tell my mechanic to go ahead and order any bolts and plugs as new replacements for anything he loosens to service it, I'm sure he'll agree and be happy not to have to put rusty bolts and plugs back on. When brakes come up, calipers and brake lines may need to be replaced, and the calipers won't be cheap. The front calipers could be astronomical, like Brembo level expensive. 4 piston all aluminum. According to carfax, they were done less than 20K miles ago so they should be ok for a while.

GoHawks

I thought I posted this.

This is a link to an underbody analysis that was posted on here a few years ago.

http://v11.lscache1.googlevideo.com/...260CBB&key=ck1

I vtec, do you?

I'm not sure what those shops were talking about. The truly correct (and expensive) way to repair that is to repaint the entire panel, and then to paint into the surround panels to blend the paint and make any differences in color unnoticeable. The way most shops would actually do it to save money would be to just remove the trunk lid and repaint the entire panel and leave it at that. Generally the color will be close enough that the seem between panels will make the different unnoticeable. I've personally never heard of a shop wanting to patch-paint a panel - that sounds really amateur to me, and I really can't imagine how anyone could make that look good because you'll just have a splotch of paint on the middle of a panel that is off from the rest of it. Maybe if they blended outward from there.. but at that point, aren't you just repainting the entire panel anyway?

Also, rust is kind of a tricky thing. Once it's there, not much short of grinding down to the metal and then laying an epoxy over it will fix it. A lot of people will sand it down and then paint over it - the vast majority of repairs done this way wind up with the paint bubbling up again over time. Rust is very fickle and often finds its way back. They make special epoxies that are made to bond to bare metal that don't allow rust formation. I'm not sure how that rust-reformer stuff works that you're using, but I'll be trying it myself on a family member's car this summer. I would personally use the epoxy if I was dead-set on removing rust.

sleepinxlionhart

I couldn't agree more that the seller should have disclosed the rust problem to you. If I were in your shoes, I think I would just sell the car and take a hit...I don't think it's worth the time and money to go around trying to correct everything, yet 100% correction is not achievable. Maybe you can sell the car, and get another used RL that isn't from a state with snowing winters.

shahram72

If I tried to sell the car here, every person would get under it take one look and walk, unless it was less than $10K. I have decided that it's not that bad and I'm going to amend what I can and enjoy the car. I know I can't stop the rust underneath, but I can slow it and we don't get snow here except once in a blue moon.

Yes, the shops want to grind the rust completely out and then fill and blend the paint in the repair areas and clear the entire trunklid so the sheen will be even. I'd like to see some samples of this repair, but every color is different. I really can't worry about it anymore for now, it's making me sick and hurting my enjoyment of the car. I'll work on it next weekend. I might take a break and go fly my helicopters (little ones) that I skipped the last couple weekends messing with the car to cool my jets...

neuron bob, there was a small chip that was never touched up at the large bubble, and that's where the water got in.

steve807

Help me out here, I don't know about rust.
Since your car now lives in SC is it safe to say the rust will stop ? No more winter salty slush.

I notice the metal beams used in Interstate Hwy construction all over the country are now left unpainted. The claim is the layer of rust that forms will prevent further rust. Maybe ?

But I don't like the look of the brown stains on the concrete supports that the rusty rain water leaves. Perhaps they know it will take 300 years for the rust to weaken the structure and the lifetime of the bridge is less than 100 years for other reasons (like we will all be riding bicycles then)

oo7spy

Your car is fine man. Don't fret it; enjoy it! There could be a million things worse buying a car sight unseen. If your AC and door handles work, I would consider it a win. Get inside and enjoy. I think your idea of replacing maintenance bolts with new ones is a good idea, but I would leave it at that. Honestly, two of your trunk bubbles won't be seen by 99% of people. The other is very small. It's all good.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

put bullet hole stickers over them

I agree with 007, just monitor it and if it gets worse then deal with it.

shahram72

That's funny, Heavy_RL, I ws thinking about sticking something there, maybe a chrome strip, but it might look worse than the bubble. I took a couple days off from this site and from working on the car and just drove it and enjoyed it. I was getting way too stressed out. I feel much better now. Went by the Acura dealer today and picked up my $30 lightbulbs for the HVAC controls (they are yellow?) and in my time not messing with the car, I worked on my other hobby, and built this. Can't wait to drive to the airfield this weekend in the RL and try her out. It's my first plane, been flying helicopters till now.

TampaRLX-SH

This car is the most Zen I have in my life. It exceeds my expectations. It does what I ask without my asking. It makes me look forward to my dreaded commute and I sometimes look for some errand to run just so I can drive it. It encourages me to care well for it so it may be my Zen for a time longer than any car I have owned.

It makes it difficult for me to understand your paranoia with some wear and tear nigglings. You bought a used car. All cars need repairs, maintenance and restoration over time. There is no magic wand outside of buying new, right off the assembly line and condemning it to living in a museum.

You should take that break, get the emotions focused on the positive and fly the poo out of the RC models. It will do you good.

Now if I were an evil person, I would advise you to park your RL far from the fly zone, and preferably in a secure parking shelter....just to be safe. But then again, a meteor could plummet from the sky, crash and burn into that very parking space.

Ok yes....I am EVIL. And I must be DESTROYED. But since I enjoy my RL, I have come to terms with it.

shahram72

Yeah, I have that perspective now, I have calmed down. Thanks guys. I even found more over the weekend. I took it to my trusted Honda mechanic who changed the tranny and diff fluids (they were dirty, he did the tranny twice) and gave the car the once over. He found a leaking power steering pump. I have an extended warranty so I'll deal with this at the next major service it needs. And the lady who owned it before must have thought she was driving the general lee. Under the plastic sheild was not pretty. She banged it up good. The radiator support was bent up and binding the radiator. He bent it back down and said the radiator was not leaking and fine for now. How the hell do people buy $50K cars and treat them like this??!??!?!?! I had a POS Mazda 626 with twice the miles and it was a CREAMPUFF when I sold it. No damage. Oh well, we'll deal with all this in time. For now, nothing else is broken. Brake linings are fine and he said corroded calipers could go either way. Hopefully those expensive front calipers are ok but I'l not worried about it for now. Will be an excuse to get some upgraded brakes although it does not need them for the way I drive.

Yeah, I gotta watch those models, I'm not very good yet, I crashed my Blade MQX quadcopter into my Honda Pilot this weekend, both are just fine after a little wax. Maybe someone will crash into my trunklid!

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear... as for this:


Have your mechanic check for recalls, there was one for the PS.

shahram72

Yes, I visited the Acura dealer and they confirmed by VIN that both recalls were done.

getakey

practice, practice, practice
<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tzowQtqOM_I>

shahram72

Awesome video! That was from Joe Nall in Woodruff, SC, one of the largest RC events in the country. I am going for the first time this year, can't wait! I'm more on the heli side of things, very technical, very dangerous. Check out this video of one of the best. Notice the people filming are hiding behind a car as these things will send you to the hospital. You don't want to be hit by carbon fiber blades spinning at over 100mph!

getakey

Wow - I can certainly understand why they were hiding behind the car!

Would have never guessed a helicopter could do that.

There was a heli group that used to fly in a large parking lot near where I live. I saw a few crashes. They seemed to be mostly newbies.

shahram72

Yep, I am still new, can barely move around, but am learning quickly. I am more interested in scale flying. I have a beautiful MD500 fiberglass fuselage that I want to get some gear into once I'm good enough not to crash it. Would love to get some others here interested. It's cheap to get started.

mitchkramez

shahram72,
I've also been bitten by the rc-heli bug. I've got myself a Blade 120sr right now and fly pretty well... enough to not crash it. I using a Spektrum dx6i for my controller - next step will be a collective pitch helicopter - fun indeed.

CFoote

Hey there,

I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear about the troubles with your used car, but to be honest I always expect some issues with whatever used car I buy (I wish it wasn't that way, but there always seems to be 'something'!)

Having said that, I'll be honest -- the rust doesn't look that bad to me. Granted I live in the Northeast (CT) so I'm used to seeing rust on cars. The RL is a well built machine and will last a long, long time. If the mechanicals are sound I would not worry -- the body stuff can always be fixed.

Having said that, I'd fix the trunk if it really bothers you and call it a day. If you've already worked on the rust a bit that's great, to be honest I would not have bothered I can understand your concern given where you are from....the car will be great though, enjoy it!

Chris

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

Thread revival time!! Since we are talking about rust, and the topic of the rubber seal around the rear wheel arches was brought up, I wanted to run this idea by someone.

007spy might know what I'm talking about when I say that in the Legends and 1G RL, it was advised to me by some people to remove those ridiculous rubber seals around the wheel arches to prevent rust formation. Would it be better to remove and replace the seals annually, and clean the metal lip under it, or just remove the strip entirely?

253RL

I've removed it from all of my honda and acuras, from integra to civics to my s2k, I've yet to touch my rl tho but will def keep a close eye on them! If they start to peel at all believe there is moisture tucked in there and will form rust that's when I'll pull them. GL

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I removed mine

BuLtL00

any advise on where exactly those rubbers are located?are they visible if i just lay down close to the wheel and reach them or i need to jack the car??

TonyCD

Why were they included in the first place?

Costs Honda more to include a seal than to omit a seal.

Just curious.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I would guess its a double edge sword, the idea was probably to protect that edge from rust and rock chips.

but it ended up trapping road grime.

MrKev

Its right above the rear wheel well, just a rubber seal that should be removed before rust forms

BuLtL00

Gotcha,i checked it yesterday and i will keep it on there.I dont think it will get any rust here in FL.

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

Thread revival again. OK, so I went ahead and removed the stupid rubber strips on the rear wheel well arch. However, as has been pointed out, part of the purpose of this was to prevent rock chips from exposing bare metal and starting rust. Crazy thought here, but what if something like 3M Paint Protection Film or XPEL was applied in that area as a substitute to this plastic strip? It would prevent rock from chipping away at the paint and wouldn't trap moisture and salt like the OEM rubber strip does. Any thoughts?

The only reason I bring this up is because I am getting quotes on XPEL for my car and I'm sure asking the installer to add this wouldn't be much more as far as $$$ goes.

neuronbob

That's an excellent idea, not a crazy thought at all, to add Xpel there.