rondog

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I need to find some info out, looks like I don't know whyat tuner to believe. I had one guy from RPM systems who was supposed to be really good and familliar with the j32 tune my car. long story short, the belt was slipping and he tuned it with a mechanically incorrect boost level reading of 4.5 lbs instead of 6.

So I took the car to T & R racing, a place in queens who seem like they know their shit, they fixed the belt, installed the pulley, even changed the alternator belt and pulled the blower then put it back with no problem. nice people and gave me confidence. They dynoed the car and tuned it with the FIC to put down 280 hp at the wheels. Everything was great. Drove the car and it was much faster, I was on cloud nine for a day.

Next day I threw a CEL and the wideband numbers were all over the place. I thought I heard a little detonation too. Almost liek the car's tune completely went haywire on it's own. So I asked RPM Systems about the ESM that was in the car from before his tune and he said he left it in there with the FIC. I was confused why he would do that, really confused since there are two systems in the car, the ESM and the FIC-6. How could this be and is this what was causing the second tune by T & R racing to go haywire the next day?

I drive nice and easy after that and the CEL went away on it's own. IT read P0131, O2 sensor circuit low voltage (bank 1, sensor 1). But this went away on it's own. The O2 numbers were still inconsistent too.

So now I'm trying to figure out if there is somewhere I can go to tune the damn car and make everything that is potentially screwed up normal and working. I mean I'm only going 6 lbs of boost, and it's not like I'm the only one. If I have to go Emanage blue to solve the issue, I will, but I really want to straighten it out and get my car running properly without the worry of doing damage to the car. Anybody know where I can go?

Also, who's runnign 6 lbs of boost and how are you managing the Fuel / Air mixture?
Lastly, what kind of O2 readings are you getting during idle, crusing and WOT?

CL-Future

Sorry to hear your troubles.

I got the same O2 code and replaced the front (before the cat) O2 sensor and A/F went back to normal. It's at about 14.7-15 at idle. If you still have trouble after doing that you might want to consider getting some defoulers.

I increased the fuel pressure to richen things up at WOT until I can get tuned.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

So yopu think thats the problem, a faulty O2 sensor (bank 1 sensor 1, before the cat)? I should change it, but what about the ESM from comptech and the FIC working at the same time, anybody think thats just nuts?

CL-Future

Not sure if that'll fix the other problems you're having but as far as the a/f being all over the place or too rich or too lean, the O2 sensor should fix that.

As far as the comptech ESM and the FIC working together, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure that those that were using emanage removed the comptech ESM but i'm not 100% on that.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

u should remove the esm and use the fic. they might be on diff tunes and the ecu might not now what to do, what to read.

faulty o2 will throw some crazy codes. common problem on the tl side

phee

iTrader: (5)

fix the 02 sensor is the first step. the esm and emanage blue being run together is a common thing on the 3g side. but most everybody uses emanage. i believe the FIC doesnt need the esm. but make sure u stay out of boost until u fix the 02

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I've been driving like a granny lately. I thought p0131 could also be a too lean readout rather than a faulty O2 sensor. The CEL went away on it's own, and didn't come back, but the readings were still crazy on the Wideband. I already spent so much money on un-needed items like the alternator HBP and the RDX injectors. I don't want to just keep on dumping money into somethign that is not certainly needed. Maybe i'll have the voltage and function of the O2 sensor checked fist to make sure it needs to be changed. And would it turn off and not come back on if it was faulty?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I remember reading a thread (possibly JProy?) that had the ESM installed while tuning on the FIC and it wasnt working properly. But definitely replace the O2 sensor.

Talk to NVA-AV6 about it. Im sure he can help you out. He makes wire harnesses for the FICs.

phee

iTrader: (5)

if your 02 sensor is fucking up it will definitely mess with your a/f in non- WOT driving.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I think I'm going to change the O2 sensor and take out the ESM. I'll have my shop (T & R Racing) soder the connectors and inspect everything to make sure there is no simple quirks about the whole deal. We already have the tune, but it's just evolving into crap becasue of the bad O2 sensor and/or the ESM. God willing this will clear up, I feel like half a person without my car running smoothly.

Rejckt

iTrader: (2)

correct me if im wrong, the ESM only adjusts voltage clamp so the map sensor doesn't see boost?

In Emanage Blue, the option is called "boost limiter cut" and you just replace that value with between 2.7 - 2.88?

I only tuned 70% throttle and up so afr reads 11.7 ish ( My wideband sensor is broken =/). My idle is 14.7 - 14.8

And I don't know if you guys get this as well but, when I drive normally. My afr fluctuates from 12-14

rondog

iTrader: (1)

My numbers vary from 12-16 when normally driving no matter what the FIC is tuned to, thats why I hoipe its a bad primary bank one sensor one O2 sensor.


So nobody running the 6 lbs of boost or higher has any feedback on what their A/F numbers are reading on the wideband, or what is being used to tune?

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

the a/f ratio will jump around when ur driving bc ur on and off the gas. thats normal.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Just out of curiosity, the RPM Systems up in Poughkeepsie?

T&R is pretty good, but their not all that familiar with the J motor.

These motors are very sensitive to bad o2 sensors.

phee

iTrader: (5)

during open loop (part throttle) the car will adjust AFR normally
during closed loop (WOT) is what you tune for, this adjust the afr to a safe amount for boost (12.8)

during idle you should be about as lean or stoich as possible. some cars will hit 17.1 at idle and some will idle around 15-16 to save fuel.

id prefer a 14 during idle because im a nut

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, 14.5-15.8 is normal during cruising or idle, but I'm running 12.5-13 at some points, and I'm just waiting for it to go back to 15 or so.

Yep, thats them, however, I'm not sure RPM is doing the tune properlly, they said they never had a supercharged J32 in their shop, and I'm kinda skeptical after lookig at their tune MAP. I'm going to replace the O2 sensor and see if their is a change, then I'm going to experiment and run both tunes, the one from RPM and the one from T & R and see which is more accurate. T & R really is a good all around shop with a dyno and with knowledge. I'm hoping it's just the O2 sensor, PRAYYING!!!!


Yeah, like I mentioned above, I need to be more lean, like 15 during normal driving, not 12's and 13's. During WOT or Boost, it goes to 10.8-11.8 easy.

phee

iTrader: (5)

15 is way too lean during part throttle

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Under normal driving (holding speed, not accelerating), Im between 14-15. Under part throttle accelleration its between 13.5-14.3. At WOT its low 12.2-12.9.

Granted, I am all motor so under WOT you want to be in the 10s-11s.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Everybody i spoke to told me between 14.5-15.8 is fine for partial throttle.

Another problem I am experiencing is either a loose heatshield or some sort of harmonic resonance at WOT at higher RPMS for a second right before redline. Bottom line, I want to get the whole thing straightened out. hopefully the new O2 sensor will be the problem solver.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

first of all what others have said, drop down to only one tuner, going to be much less headaches when they are not cancelling each oth out and such


but also remember you gotta have the fic work in harmony with the stock ecu, other wise you are going to get codes

but anyways i don't think the O2 is bad, i think they are trying to richen up the mixture too much with the skew feature of the fic, and the ecu is seeing the voltage drop too low, when the fic kicks in, which is flagging it as bad

maybe try getting on it a little again (into boost), and watch those numbers closely, after the ecu has had a couple of days to learn the new tune (i think it will have probably detuned it by now, the wounders of the modern ecu and OBD2 )

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

maybe not detune it, but it tries to richen it too much at once though, and the computer is flagging that


anyways do you also have a boost gauge to see when it richens up, that it is when it is going into boost???

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I have a boost gauge, the AEM UEGO and fuel pressure gauge. It richens up soemtimes to 12, even 11 when I'm just cruising or in idle. I changed the O2 sensor and it seems exactly the same after about a day of driving. I already scheduled the tuner to take a look at it, and test for detonation with an electronic listening device. They also have a Dyno. So the car goes back on monday and hopefully this will be the end of it. If not, I'm dropping back down to 3 lbs of boost oooooor I'll get them to install a Meth injection kit.

Besides the Widband O2 numbers be whacky, I think the only other thing is the raspy noise which I hope is not detonation. Once those two things are eliminated, I'll be happy again and able to enjoy the car. In the meantime, I've been just keeping it under 3k rpm.

I wish someone else had the FIC with a tune so I could just drop the new tune in and see if there is a difference.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

good news and bad news...

The noise I thought was detonation was not that at all, car was actually running fine once we got the ESM out and entered the voltage info into the FIC.

Actually, it was the blower. That noise turned out to be worn out bearings at the end of the shaft right before the pulley. Around 5500 rpms I would hear a raspy tingy sound, sorta plasticy crackling. I'm going to see about getting the blower remanufactured or get another one and selling this one to someone for cheap. Rebuilding it would only cost $350-$500, so that would be a great deal if I sold it for $1000. So now the blower has to come out and get sent to Cali or something. I'm sorta happy this is the case, and that the motor for the car is in good shape.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

so $1000 for the whole kit ???, if so i call dibs, and i will rebuild that thing myself, and get the required fittings for the auto, no big deal really

rondog

iTrader: (1)

No, just the blower itself, no accessories or other required parts, since I would just be getting the blower unit new from Comptech.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

why not just fix the bearings

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

, but then kinda pointless for it


then as rajca said, just get a new bearing, you might have to pull it apart first though, but ALL bearings WORLDWIDE are standardrized, so you can be in another country, look at the race number (part#), and order it from any manufacture, and have it fit perfectly

phee

iTrader: (5)

just fix the blower because nobody is gunna buy it without accessories since there is a new,working one for less than the price after buying accessories and rebuild.

glad ur engine is fine. now what about the tuning issues?

rondog

iTrader: (1)

I might just do that, but I need a source for the bearings, every supercharger parts supplier has told me they only rebuild them, they don't sell the parts. Anyway, the blower's coming out today and car is going back to NA until I can fix the problem.

As for the tune, the ESM comes out at that point, and the FIC will get slightly recalibrated without the interference fo the ESM voltage settings. I'll have them retune when the blower goes back in. most likely with 3" exhasut piping and a slightly larger throttle body opening.

I feel alot better and realize I may have been a bit paranoid, but at least the problem has been identified and it's already being addressed.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

a good mechanic could easly say and measure what type of bearing is it and replaced it for you.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Ebay is your friend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eaton...#ht_841wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eaton...#ht_500wt_1182

Search Eaton M62 and youll find rebuild kits all over the net.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

or just read the race #'s off of the bearing itself, that will tell you the size and such


anyways Timkin or NRG (alot of OEM bearings are made by them) bearings are good

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

as far as civic's says for ebay, that works too, but i be worried about cheap chinese bearings though, and then they won't last, not exactly a place to cheap out

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Well, I spoke to Magnuson and a few other places, looks like the small shards of metal from the worn out chrome on the old bearings can cause premature failure of the replacements. Also, I really need to get this blower remanufactured to amke sure the coating on the rotors isn't bad. I think its time to do it right and get the most out of the blower. Sending it to Magnuson on friday. Shoudl cost between $350-$950 depoending on the amount of work needed.

Unless someone wants to buy it off me for $1000 and I would buy a new one for $1800. You would just have to get the parts replaced and get the other parts of the blower to amke it work. probably come out to $2500 to have a fully operable blower rebuilt and ready to go.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

that works too lol, sending it striaght to the manufactor of it itslef, instead of like comptech which probably would have sent it there anyways

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

$1k is way too much for an M62. Ive seen rebuilt units go for $750.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Well, I checked out about 4 different places that all claim to be the best, but I'm inclined to go with the company that makes them for Comptech for obvious reasons. I'm super anal about the noises and small details about the car, so hopefully they will provide me with a pristine rebuild and I won't worry about doing the same job twice.

To me it's worth the extra $150 to have it done the right way the first time. After they get the blower, they will reevaluate it, it might only be $350 for all I know. We'll see, fingers crossed!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Oh, I wasn't knocking your decision to get it rebuilt by them. I would have done the same thing.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

how many miles on the blower?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

That's exactly what they do. When my seal was leaking, Nate told me, or should I say urged me, for warranty reasons, to send it to them (Comptech). I needed the car in three days, so I bought two bottles of the GM S/C oil and a stick of Loctite 548 flange sealant and went to work resealing. No problems thus far, but no warranty, oh well.

If you don't mind and at your convenience, what method of shipping are you using and where abouts in the ballpark is the cost for shipping that big chuck of S/C?

Good luck!