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3.6L Build Help

 
Old 03-02-2018, 03:13 PM
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3.6L Build Help

I'd like to build a 3.6L engine using a 3.7L crank in my J32A2 block and heads. Essentially, I'll use the stock J32A2 with J37 crank, rods, and cams. I'll be using a supercharger, so I'll won't bore the engine and I'll use stock pistons.

Which J37 would work best for this? There are some J37A1 engines for less than $1000. Any advantage of the later J37 engines?
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:55 PM
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^
Good luck with your build and subscribed for knowledge.

My cursory search came up with a J37 crankshaft from an 07 MDX, as you state above.

Did your J35A3 finally give up the ghost with its burning oil issue?

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...source-965826/
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:08 PM
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Nah it still runs okay, but I think it's burning oil from worn piston rings. I had a coolant leak, and the oil temp got up to 300F , so I think that's what caused the oil burning problem.
Figured I would just go 3.6L with forged crank and rods if I'm going to have to rebuild anyways.

For reference, the process to build a 3.6L is using a J37 crank and J37 rods.
Crank: 13310-RK2-A01 ($500)
Rods: 13210-RK2-A00 ($25x6)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For pistons, you can use:
-J35A3 pistons (lowest compression)
-J32A2 pistons
-05 RL pistons (highest compression)
Because I'm using a supercharger, I'll stick to the J35A3 or the J32A2 pistons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For cams, you can use:
-J32A2 cams
-07 to 08 TL-S cams
-J37 cams
I'm not sure what I'll pick, but I might just stick with the J32A2 cams to start with.
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Old 03-04-2018, 05:37 PM
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Interesting that there's a few different part numbers for the J37 cranks. The one you posted is a solid price considering the others are $1000. Funny that the 07-09' MDX/09-10" RL are more expensive..


I search randomly for motors & it's ridiculous that high mileage J37's (150k+) are still going for $1k plus. Wreckers are out to lunch
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by teh CL View Post
Interesting that there's a few different part numbers for the J37 cranks. The one you posted is a solid price considering the others are $1000. Funny that the 07-09' MDX/09-10" RL are more expensive..


I search randomly for motors & it's ridiculous that high mileage J37's (150k+) are still going for $1k plus. Wreckers are out to lunch
Supply and demand; I suspect, but have no data to support the suspicion, that with all of the oil burning J37s out there, they are something of a hot commodity in the bone yards.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:53 PM
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Maybe. I'm still sticking with they're greedy fucks..

Of course it's nothing new that some wreckers "try" to gouge ppl but with that said, I paid $800 CDN for a J37A2 probably 2 years ago w./ 90k KM. Just have to jump on opportunities when they arise, even if it means letting it sit in storage for 2 years till the time comes to make use of it..
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
Nah it still runs okay, but I think it's burning oil from worn piston rings. I had a coolant leak, and the oil temp got up to 300F , so I think that's what caused the oil burning problem.
Figured I would just go 3.6L with forged crank and rods if I'm going to have to rebuild anyways.

For reference, the process to build a 3.6L is using a J37 crank and J37 rods.
Crank: 13310-RK2-A01 ($500)
Rods: 13210-RK2-A00 ($25x6)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For pistons, you can use:
-J35A3 pistons (lowest compression)
-J32A2 pistons
-05 RL pistons (highest compression)
Because I'm using a supercharger, I'll stick to the J35A3 or the J32A2 pistons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For cams, you can use:
-J32A2 cams
-07 to 08 TL-S cams
-J37 cams
I'm not sure what I'll pick, but I might just stick with the J32A2 cams to start with.
Hey man. I've also been looking into maybe stroking out my J32A2, after some advice from teh CL. Is there any point perhaps in searching for J35A1 crank and rods, to use with my block, pistons, heads and cams? I'm sure it's been done, just haven't found a whole lot of definitive information on this topic. Will the stock J32A2 run the motor ok if I stroke it out? I'm looking for maybe 280 at the wheels, I intend on keeping the setup the same as it is (as I stand currently, I'm running a six-speed, full 3-inch CAI, 70 mm TB, J37A1 intake manifold bored out to 70 mm, P2R thermal gasket, stock internals, DC-Sports headers, a full straight pipe exhaust 2.25 inches all the way back - same diameter as the DC-Sports collector pipe, I don't see the point of going any bigger; so basically what you'd call full bolt-ons).
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:11 AM
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Or am I maybe missing something in terms of bolt-ons? I've heard that people install 4-inch intakes - honestly, I don't see the point, air flow will be restricted by the TB anyway. I know the TL SH-AWD IM is the way to go, but that's out of my reach, unfortunately (financially). I've also heard about people using 2.5-3 inch exhaust, but I also fail to see the point, since the collector pipe is 2.25 inches anyway, and exhaust gases tend to cool and slow down the further away from the engine they travel.
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:34 AM
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I think it would be cheaper for you to just buy a J35A3 and swap in the J32A2 cams.
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
I think it would be cheaper for you to just buy a J35A3 and swap in the J32A2 cams.
Just an FYI. He is in Moscow, Russia. Not sure if that particular engine made it into any export models to the EU or RF for that matter, so it may not be readily available compared to J35A1's.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by zeta View Post
Just an FYI. He is in Moscow, Russia. Not sure if that particular engine made it into any export models to the EU or RF for that matter, so it may not be readily available compared to J35A1's.
We never got the first gen MDX officially (or the second one for that matter: Acura kind of came and went, I think they opened a few official dealers back in 2011 or 2012, but they withdrew in 2014 due to our financial crisis). However, a lot of MDX's of all shapes, colors and sizes came in through private importers, so we do have a few J35A3's for sale. The only problem is they're pretty expensive, 1.5-2 times what my J32A2 cost me
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:08 PM
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Any progress on your 3.6 build?

Just curious because it's kind of slow on this side of the forum.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:39 PM
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Yea, it's actually going really well. I'm planning to do a full DIY guide since it was so easy to build.

Cleaning and painting it is taking at least 5 times longer than just building it. Here's some pics from before the build.





As you can see in the pics, I split the head from the block to find that the pistons had marks on them. I can only assume the previous owner of the donor vehicle overrevved the engine, had the exhaust valves float and hit the pistons, and had the valves replaced. I didn't know about this before, as the engine ran perfectly.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:43 PM
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Here are some pictures of the actual build process.

This is the view under the oil pan after I connected the rods and crank.

Just a pic of the crank code used to find which bearings you will need.



The above pic is the difference in spring size for the oil pumps between the J32A2 manual and the J37A4. The stiffer spring will raise oil pressure. I'm actually a little concerned it will be too stiff, so I'll have to measure the oil pressure once the engine is running.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:45 PM
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Here are some pics of my Oil Pan after I painted it. Cleaning and painting these parts are seriously taking waaay too long. I decided to use a Fumoto Valve to avoid potentially stripping the drain plug.


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Old 08-18-2018, 05:47 PM
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This is where I'm at now. I've got the block completely done, and I've finished one of the heads. I still need to clean, prep, and paint the front head though.


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Old 08-18-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by teh CL View Post
Interesting that there's a few different part numbers for the J37 cranks. The one you posted is a solid price considering the others are $1000. Funny that the 07-09' MDX/09-10" RL are more expensive..


I search randomly for motors & it's ridiculous that high mileage J37's (150k+) are still going for $1k plus. Wreckers are out to lunch
It turns out that the only crank we can use is the $1000 one from the 07-09 J37A1. The J37A4 and the 2010+ J37A1 have a different crank with a slightly bigger lip. That lip needs to be machined off, or you can take a grinder to make some room in your block. I didn't want to mess with all that, so I bought a short block from an 07 J37A1 for $500 which required no modifications.

Here's a video about using a J37A4 crank (not my video, just found it on YouTube):

There's not a lot of info about how to build the J36, so I'll make it all clear in a separate post. If you do everything right, it's actually pretty easy and not terribly expensive. Should be less than $1000 total.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:17 PM
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^

Nice update and pics, thanks! Glad to see that it is going very well and look forward to all your comments/impressions when you finish the build.

I could see in that guys video the lip that you spoke of on the crank.

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Old 08-19-2018, 08:22 PM
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Good show..
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post

The above pic is the difference in spring size for the oil pumps between the J32A2 manual and the J37A4. The stiffer spring will raise oil pressure. I'm actually a little concerned it will be too stiff, so I'll have to measure the oil pressure once the engine is running.
Karanx7, just to clarify.

When you state that the '...stiffer spring...' for the oil pumps '...will raise oil pressure', you are referring to the larger one on the left as the J37A4 versus the one on the right is from the J32A2? The one with the locktite on the sealing bolt appears 'newer'; therefore, from the J37A4?

2010 TL:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/v-2010...gine--oil-pump

2003 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/v-2003...p-oil-strainer


I remember 03 tls nc, on the thread below, post #22, talking about using the 'oil pump spring' from the J32A2 over the one from a J35A3 as a simple 'upgrade' during that discussion.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-.../#post15753785



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Old 08-21-2018, 05:49 PM
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Yea, the thread with a little more info is here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...-908987/page3/

The J37A1 manual was somewhere between the J32A2 and the J37A4 in terms of height. The J37A4 requires more oil pressure because of the dual VTEC, so it has a stiffer spring. The problem is that I don't know if the J32A2 will have oil flow issues with this spring, as it's much stiffer than I was expecting. From what I understand, the stiffer springs cause increased pressure but reduced flow. I guess I'll be the guinea pig.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
Yea, the thread with a little more info is here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...-908987/page3/
Thanks for the thread, I will read it through.

Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
The J37A1 manual was somewhere between the J32A2 and the J37A4 in terms of height. The J37A4 requires more oil pressure because of the dual VTEC, so it has a stiffer spring. The problem is that I don't know if the J32A2 will have oil flow issues with this spring, as it's much stiffer than I was expecting. From what I understand, the stiffer springs cause increased pressure but reduced flow. I guess I'll be the guinea pig.
A real ignorant question on my part; however, I understand that the J37A4 requires more oil pressure because of the dual VTEC as you state.

However, is it possible to know/find out if the 'passage diameter' that the oil passes through on the J37A4 have been significantly 'enlarged' (because it's newer & higher displacement) versus the J32 that would cause you to think there may be a smaller passage diameter in the 'oil plumbing' of the older J32, thus causing reduced oil flow?

Put another way, if the 'oil passage' plumbing diameters are the same between the two engines, oil flow volume would remain the same; but at a higher pressure because of the different spring size. Or is that a 'total' oversimplification of the whole process, hehe? Just curious.


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Old 08-21-2018, 08:19 PM
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That's exactly what I was thinking. If the passage diameter is the same, then I'll obviously be fine. But I'm not sure if they increased the passage diameter as well as increasing the spring size.

If the J37A4 has an increased passage diameter, then the J32A2 might not get enough flow. However, it seems that the 3G folks were using this upgrade, and I'm betting the J32A3 and the J35 have the same oil passage diameter as the J32A2.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
That's exactly what I was thinking. If the passage diameter is the same, then I'll obviously be fine. But I'm not sure if they increased the passage diameter as well as increasing the spring size.

If the J37A4 has an increased passage diameter, then the J32A2 might not get enough flow. However, it seems that the 3G folks were using this upgrade, and I'm betting the J32A3 and the J35 have the same oil passage diameter as the J32A2.
I'm thinking you have a reasonably safe 'bet' because if you look at the logic/statement of 03 tls nc in that other thread discussion, between the J32A2 & J35A3, he is advocating placing the 'better' J32A2 spring in place of the 'weaker' J35A3 spring; thus, one would think that on those two engines the oil passage diameter did not change, even with the higher displacement J35A3 because, supposedly, it has the weaker of the two factory springs, to begin with, when it came in the 01-02 MDX.

To say the least, I know you'll have your eyes anxiously 'pegged' on whatever oil pressure monitoring apparatus you are employing upon the first start of your new J36.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:58 AM
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This is so cool. Thanks for taking the time to document everything Karanx7.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:31 PM
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Karanx7
Just wondering how this project ended up for you. How far along did you get??
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Old 01-26-2019, 12:55 AM
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Pretty much finished with the engine. Just need to adjust the valves.

Before I put the engine in, I'm going to give the engine bay a good cleaning. I'm also taking this opportunity to clean up all the wiring.

Gonna start the engine just naturally aspirated. After break in, I'll add the M62 charger. Hopefully everything goes well, and then I'll use the M90 with the intercooler.

PS The J35A3 pistons DO clear the J32A2 valves. There's many posts about how they wouldn't clear, but this I can confirm the engine turns over without issue. I also artificially activated VTEC with air pressure, and it still turns over fine.
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Old 01-26-2019, 04:56 AM
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Sweeeeet!
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
Gonna start the engine just naturally aspirated. After break in, I'll add the M62 charger. Hopefully everything goes well, and then I'll use the M90 with the intercooler.
Thanks for the update! Looks like all your hard work is paying off.



I see you have painted and installed the front camshaft thrust cover assembly.

Did you formulate a 'proprietary' M90 mounting bracket of sorts, similar to the one for the m62, to keep it under the hood?

Or are you going to use the Prank M90 adapter kit?

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Old 01-26-2019, 03:48 PM
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No, I will be using a modified Comptech supercharger. I just painted it because I'll be running it naturally aspirated during the break in.

The Prank adapter seems crazy to me. Having something so big sticking out of your hood is to me. Also, they are getting M90 levels of hot boost directly into the intake manifold. It's insane to have that much boost without an intercooler, and I think that's why some people have engines blowing from detonation. Though, I have seen some people using a water intercooler from a Chevy or something that fits.
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Old 01-26-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
No, I will be using a modified Comptech supercharger. I just painted it because I'll be running it naturally aspirated during the break in.
When you say 'modified', have you found a way to 'adapt' the CT-E input shaft onto the front bearing plate of an m90??


Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post
The Prank adapter seems crazy to me. Having something so big sticking out of your hood is to me. Also, they are getting M90 levels of hot boost directly into the intake manifold. It's insane to have that much boost without an intercooler, and I think that's why some people have engines blowing from detonation. Though, I have seen some people using a water intercooler from a Chevy or something that fits.

You mean you would rather not be seen driving the streets of Phoenix, AZ, similar to Ace Ventura with your head outside the driverside window, sporting a MadMax blower jutting out of the hood of your TL?

Last edited by zeta; 01-26-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 01-27-2019, 01:45 AM
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Actually the M90 bolts directly onto the CT shaft with no modifications. So the 2 modifications needed are to the intake and output of the supercharger. The intake just needs a simple adapter plate. The output required the collector to be re-welded to accommodate the bigger blower. I bought this kit from someone else, but I remember the original creator of this posted all about it here. Unfortunately, all of his pics are down.
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Old 01-27-2019, 06:52 AM
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^
Nice. I remember jproy's thread, back in the day.

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Old 01-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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Great info.

I need to find a cheap comptech blower to slap an M90 to..
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by teh CL View Post
Great info.

I need to find a cheap comptech blower to slap an M90 to..


The one on the link below might still be available.

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-par...ura-tl-966006/

Since he's been sitting on it, if it's still available, you might be able to pick it up cheap.
The lower outlet and throttle body intake inlet as well as the input shaft may be salvageable for an M90.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:49 PM
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Your a bad influence...
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by teh CL View Post
Your a bad influence...
same your money and go turbo. Lol if not just throw nitrous at it. Be like nike, just do it!! Lol
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Old 02-09-2019, 05:44 AM
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Finally finished preparing the transmission. Now I'm just waiting on my FX400 clutch, and everything will be put back together.
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zeta (02-09-2019)
Old 02-09-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Karanx7 View Post


Finally finished preparing the transmission. Now I'm just waiting on my FX400 clutch, and everything will be put back together.

nice bro!! That shit look fire!!
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