nova_G

LOL more proof that he's (MS3) is Manual Transmission ha!

Don't feed the troll!

Sonnick

Yea I'm down. I go to Englishtown usually. I think I'm gonna go to Island Drag though next time. I heard you get a lot of runs there. Once I get my mounts I'm going again, hopefully with a few people I'll let you know when.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

haha that's too funny. A TL-S 6MT is considerably slower than a Modded MS3 but stock for stock would be a good race if the MS3 driver knows what he is doing. Why don't you record some runs in your MS3?

Hotwired05

Yeah I heard that too.. well in a little bit I'm gonna throw in the xlr8 non res cat back, and the ATLP J-pipe.. maybe the rv-6 test pipe if I still got money left, after that I definitely want to take it to the track and do some runs.. but let me know when ur going again.. I got a buddy of mine in a 2010 vw GTI thats itching to race (also thinks his FWD GTI is a rocket lol) so I'll be a fun day... hit me up

Rick_TL-S

Someone go get I Hate cars.

Hotwired05

^^^ lmaoooo

Sonnick

Very nice. Should sound sick!

I need a new Jpipe too sigh. Any mods to the GTI? They are quite quick with some light mods. After I get the Innovative motor mounts I'm hitting the track. I will definitely hit you up.

Hotwired05

He's got a catback and a CAI as far as I know

Sonnick

You should smoke him

njcharger

Lemme start of by saying Im no troll, I'm not here to start crap, secondly, even though I own a Charger R/T and I'm from Jersey I'm not the kid from this story. Most of the time attitudes like his are reserved for people who own Mustangs or Civics, I know a lot of people in the Charger community in the area and I'm surprised he acted like that.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on here about Chargers in general. Theres two solid flaws with the Charger R/T, the factory tune. MDS, which turns on 4 cyl as was pointed out here DOES cause major bogging but only if you floor it from a roll of 60+, it does not bother the down end. The problem is the factory tune manages the torque horribly and really limits the top end, remember ALL Chargers are automatic. Second flaw is the headers. We dont have headers, we have manifolds, some seriously crappy log like manifolds. I see a lot of you guys have some slight mods, lemme just say not to under estimate an R/T. Because I know of very few serious R/T owners (This kid was not) that dont have a canned Diablo tuner at the least.

Personally, on my car I have headers, some exhaust work, an intake, and the tuner (tune came with it) and I pulled a 13.5 at Atco with a 105 trap on Nitto street tires. Which is around what a stock SRT can pull with a crappy driver (They would have a higher trap). For $1K in parts, I feel that the .7 second gain over typical stock times speaks for itself about how crappy the stock tune limits the car. Just for reference, since the cars are auto, a stock R/T will dyno at around 270-290 RWHP, a tuned one with an exhaust will do 315-320.

And you guys suggesting highway pulls, probably not a good idea, obviously this kid was a moron, but seriously be careful when doing roll races. Obviously dont do them at all, but since I know people will, the Chargers have a 2.82 rear, 4th gear is 1:1, and to be honest with you all, if I'm doing 60 MPH and I hit the gas most cars in my league are hard pressed to keep up.

Be safe guys, seriously. But I just wanted to put the information out there, I just dont like to see my car talked down. And I apologize for the kid who was talking trash.

njcharger

If you race that GTI and you beat a stock R/T, I'd say you'd destroy the kid, no competition. I put 2-3 car lengths on GTI's EASILY. They only run like high to mid 14s. They're not fast at all.

Hotwired05

@njcharger - I wasn't dissing the Charger as a car, just saying that it does have problems with factory tune and MSD was a big mistake on Dodges part to put something like that into a performance oriented car...But you have to admit that it's a little too slow for it's power.. It's competitors for example the G8 GT does a 13.5-13.6 quarter miles stock... although I can stay almost right next to the G8 GT going to 60mph it will pull on me later..

Especially if we're doing about 80 and the G8 GT guns in I can barely keep up (like 4-5 cars behind by the time he hits the limiter @137) I'm sure if we did a roll start at about 80mph the R/T would pull on me faster and faster as we picked up speed.. You can really appreciate the power and torque of that V8 (or any V8) after it get's past 80-90....

As far as the SRT-8 - which is a 425hp 6.1L HEMI V8 does a 13.3 - 13.4 sec quarter mile which is just 2 tenth of a second behind the 365hp G8 GT. SRT-8 is a beautiful car (I actually wanted to get one at some point) so is the R/T but you have to admit Dodge screwed up a little (Especially on the R/T) to avoid the "Gas-Guzzler" tax :\

Personally (looks wise) I would pick the SRT Charger over the G8 GT but I'm a little disappointed in their performance.

njcharger

I was actually giving you more credit to your kill since his car was stock, its a well known fact (although some R/T owners dont like to admit it) that a 3.5 SXT Charger will keep up with a bone stock R/T from a roll. By keep up I mean about a car behind, but still, thats a real shame considering you spend the money on a V8. Like I said, stock R/Ts dyno at 270-290. I've seen them as low as 260 stock, and as high as 300. Dodge did screw the pooch with the R/T, but with VERY slight modifications the cars a really nice highway car. If you would have done an 80 pull with the R/T (since he was stock) you still would have had him. R/T's and G8 GTs are in a differnet league as far as power stock for stock, Ill admit that, the R/T lacks. Thats why Dodge redesigned the heads and intake manifold in 09. The 09 and up Chargers post stock times of 13.4, some guy I know has a 2010 R/T and he ran a 13.2 on street tires with a modified air box only. Factory tune and all. I wasn't saying you were dissing the car, or really anyone for that matter (for the most part). There was just a lot of misinformation. From what I understand some Acuras gain 30 HP with just headers. All cars have their faults.

As for the SRT. That 13.2-13.4 is with a bad driver. You live in NJ, probably didnt know this but NJ, CT, NY, MA, and PA have THE fastest Chargers in the nation. I can tell you theres a guy from Union County who runs a 12.7 with a stock Magnum SRT (not full weight), I always see consecutive 12.9s and 13.1s out of SRT's when the driver knows the car and the guys who have the tuner and exhaust mods (basically all serious Charger owners) are in the 12.9 area. Charger SRT vs. LS2 GTO is a drivers race. On the highway the SRT has the advantage. Remember, Dodge put highway gears in these cars. Pre-09 R/Ts come with a 2.82, 09+ come with a 2.65 (with an option to get a 3.06 in it) and SRT's come with a 3.06. Another HUGE limit to the Charger is the auto. You can't get a Charger in stick. I've personally seen a Chally R/T in stick (~375 hp) run a 12.7 with a temp plate on it.

I really posted to clear things up that these cars arent as slow as people thing, especially for a 4200 lb whale. My 13.5 was at full weight. I wanna get a Vbox to see my 60-130 time, but off the top of my head I can tell you I've out ran (sometimes margainally) M3's (e36 and e46), Modded 08+ WRX's, a boosted 240 with what he said was 15 LBS, a stage 2 04 WRX, and I ALMOST took a tuned 335I. We were on the track of course...a long track ...and he started pulling at about 110, with my girlfriend in the car. Found out later that the kids car runs a 12.5 at the track, so it was at that point I realized how weak the gears make my car in the down range, but was really proud at how well it performs in the upper range. And as for G8 GT's, I did race an auto one, didnt go too well for him, but it wasnt like I blew him out of the water. My next goal is to be able to take out a ZO6 if I can ever get heads and cam in this car, one can dream right?

Be safe out there.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^ i had an opportunity to drive a Challenger SRT 8 for a month and lost to some evos and a c6 vette.

I'm hoping my dad picks up a tuner!!!!!

njcharger

6 Speed Chally? Or Auto? If it was stick it shouldn't hahve lost THAT bad to the Vette. Tuner and some high flow cats (weakest part on the SRTs) should put it at about 12.7-12.9 range easily. As for the Evo, obviously they werent stock, not many Evos are...my Charger R/T will go neck and neck with stock Evos. Make sure if the Chally is auto to turn off traction control (really limits your torque) and to use the auto stick function to pick a gear if you're in a roll, not sure how similar it is to my Charger cause its got the 3.06 rear but for me 0-40=1st, 40-60=2nd.

The tuner is the Diablo, it's the only way to go, all the other tuners on the market for the LX(Charger/300/Magnum)/LC (Challenger) platforms are junk. You could get one for $300 (Predator, basic one) or $600+ (Trinity, fancy one with gauges). Just make sure when you get it, you do a datalog of the car, watch for LT or ST knock retard, adjust the fuel if needed (richen it up a bit in the RPM ranges where you're seeing knock). Alternatively, you can get it custom tuned for a few hundred dollars through your email. You can find all the information on how to do it on the Diablo site, or google LXforums. They're all very knowledgeable.

If anyone else wants any info I'd be happy to oblige. For all you guys who wanna race an R/T from a roll, go from a 45 roll. At that point they're too high to stay in first or have the transmission to kick down, and pretty low in the power band in 2nd. 20 MPH rolls and under the torque really kicks in and if they have crappy tires they'll spin for a while. Torque maxes out at ~3K RPM (About 345 RWTRQ in stock trim) so you can imagine what that does if traction control is off, if its on the car just bogs. But if they have good tires they'll take off at 20. 40 MPH and 60 MPH are typically bad ideas for a car that's about equal with a Charger. 45MPH is where you wanna be. Also if they have stock tires its basically a done deal. Dodge decided to put a 225 rear on the car...225 to support 390 ft/lbs of torque, REAL good idea Dodge. Not to mention Continental is not known for its great hook ups. If the Charger you're racing is an 09+ (Goofy circle tail lights) then things could turn out a little different.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

CLick here for my thread on the Challenger SRT

its a six speed, pistol grip ftw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqS0luw-iPU

Hotwired05

@njcharger - interesting to know.. well in any case this was the first time I ever got to race an R/T (I've raced a few SXT's without any problems) but I was really shaky on this one, since I was putting a 3.5L V6, FWD Luxury car versus a HEMI V8 Charger. I was pretty certain I'd get my ass handed to me but still had my hopes up..

One race that I would like to see though, is a SRT-8 Charger against the G8 GXP with that LS3 vette engine. I think it's like 415hp and 415 torque.. It should be a good competitor for the SRT-8.. The SRT-8 has 10 horses on the GXP, but the GXP comes in a 6-speed which is a big plus.

Last GXP I saw at the track with street tires and a so-so driver, he posted 13 flat @ 108. With a good driver I heard they can break the 13 sec (12.8-12.9) with the 6-speed of course. Should be a close race with the SRT-8 and one I'd like to see

D's Up

You will work that GTI, no problem at all. I smashed on one and I drive a base 5AT.

njcharger

SRT Charger VS GXP stock for stock, the GXP has the advantage if its 6 speed. Like I said, the auto transmission REALLY screws up the way the car runs. The cars so limited due to the factory tune and the auto, its a shame cause SRT Chargers dont get the chance to shine as much as they should. Not to mention all the magazines favoring GM and Ford over Chrysler. That 108 trap is a little higher than what you'd typically see in an SRT8. SRT8's post about 106-107 bone stock, though I have seen them higher. But it would be a close race.

But the thing to remember is that SRTs are factory under rated. They put down about 385-390 RWHP stock...their engine is rated at 425. Theres a 15% drivetrain loss on Chargers, do the math, it doesnt add up. Realistically the 6.1 Hemi is putting out closer to 450, but Dodge under rated it so people wouldnt complain if they saw too low of dyno numbers. They didnt have to worry about underrating the R/T cause they figured no one would bother making them fast I guess.

The positive thing about these cars, is the iron block. So theres no sleeving necessary if you decided to go Forced Induction. The problem is the piston rings are weak and they can only support about 8PSI. But theres guys who have 180K+ miles on their engine (R/T and SRT) and throw a 125 shot of nitrous at it every weekend at the track. These cars love nitrous, I just refuse to use it.

Also, REALLY surprised at that race vs the Vette video. You gotta get a tuner man, you should not have lost that bad.

Sonnick

^^ Why? The Vette has I/E mods and is what, 600lbs lighter? The SRT8 also had a passenger and the Vette didn't. I would've thought the Vette would've pulled more. You're looking at mid 13 second car and a low 12 second car.

I had a run with a SRT8 Charger once. It was surprisingly close.I had everything but the 3in exhaust. It was from a dig and I got the jump. I was ahead until I shifted into 3rd where he instantly went from being on my bumper, to me being on his bumper. When we ended at 100 I was still on his bumper. Not sure who was more surprised, me or him.

I had a run with an R/T at the track as well. He had big wheels, but also had at least exhaust. I ran a 14.3 I believe that day and he pulled a 14.7. Without the wheels it probably would've been even.

Needless to say, big V8s respond to mods very well. I'm sure a bolt on R/T Charger would put a few cars on us fully bolted.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I'm waiting for my dad to buy a tuner. it should help.
when he does, expect a new video against the same vette.

Sonnick

^^ Nice!! I honestly think it's gonna take full bolt ons/tune to be a good race with the Vette though. He was misshifting and still pulling 3 cars on you. I know you had a passenger and that would probably account for 1 car, but so would the misshift. Good luck

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

hell yeah he was fast.

MVR 155

I agree 10000000000%

Nothing but a Troll

Its the same guy.... he also went by "meowcat" over on Acura World forums

This guy is an idiot and likes to simply stir $hit up, he would constantly post about cars that have auto transmissions being worthless and useless etc.... then he buys the IS350 (which has an auto trans....ha..ha)and made comments about how the G-Force on acceleration made him almost throw up. He got all upset when I told him that hard braking produces more G's than acceleration ever could in that car...... I have never seen someone post more crap on the net than this guy.

I can assure you that this troll has never set foot on the grounds of a real race track not to mention ever driven a car on/at one. He is a magazine racer at best, best bet is to put him on ignore. He pissed and moaned when I called him out for lying and being a hypocrite over at AW and reported me to the mods who didnt do anything because they knew he was full of crap as well.

Sonnick

njcharger

Sonnick-

Everyone has run in's with SRT's, R/T's and it always turns out badly for the Charger. I guess cause theres so many out there and just people have no idea what they're doing. Didnt realize the Vette was modded, should have paid more attention. Every race between a Chally SRT (stock) and Vette (stock) have been really close, normally edged for the Vette, but none the less close. C6 Vette's run like 12.6-12.8 average, Chally SRT's about a 12.8-13 average, both with drivers who know what the hell they're doing. Like I said above, the 6.1 is factory under rated a decent amount. I love how people see SRTs running high 13s or an R/T running high 14s. Id like to slap some sense in them and tell them to get driving lessons before they embarrass a models reputation even more. When people buy a Hemi they just assume its the fastest thing on the road. THATS what gives it a bad name. I guess it's what happens when your car is slowly becoming the new Mustang...everyones got one.

I bought my car in 07, I got it cause it was something no one had, I liked the idea of an iron block and pushrods. And the room inside and in the truck is unbelievable (once took 8 FULL wheels and tires with my girlfriend in the passenger seat up to Long Island, and yes I was able to see out the rear window completely. I'll say this. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who buys a Charger new..for full price...is a moron. If I had $42K+ to spend on a new car it would NOT be an SRT-8. My car cost me $23K, its an '06, so it was only a year old and it had just over 5K miles, the sticker on it new was $34K. The depreciation value is the only thing that makes these cars worth buying if you like the look. You can go out right now and pick up an SRT with 15-20 thousand miles for about $22-$25K. If it werent for the price, I'd be driving around a WS6 Trans Am right now (couldn't find one with low enough miles). I'm no Dodge fan boy, in fact when my car goes if I dont put in a stroker I'll be going the route of Euro. But contrary to prior belief Chargers dont die after 100K miles, many people have them over 250K, which is somewhat impressive for a Chrysler product, excluding Jeeps.

Another thing to look out for is upbadgers. I'm not saying the SRT you raced was one, being a car guy I'm sure you know what's what. But people see the SRT-8 badge and figure "gotta be one". I always look for the Brembo's, they're the hardest to fake. I cant tell you how many guys with R/Ts and even V6s get an exhaust, the hood, the front bumper, and badge the car an SRT. It's easy to do. In all honesty, even in stock form, that SRT should have put car lengths on you after 60 MPH. In roll situations they hang neck and neck with E39 M5's and will normally beat out an LS2 GTO. But none the less, I'd be surprised in my car too if I hung with an SRT8 in a low 14/high 13 car.

I wanna slap the people who buy R/Ts and put rims on them. So dumb. A 14.7 is pitiful, in full stock form I pulled a 14.2@101 on the crappy stock tires. Could NOT get the car to hook. With about $1K invested (the tires dont count, I needed new ones :-P) I'm at a best of 13.5@105 full weight. I know its got a better run in it with drag tires, everyone's told me my traps good for a lower 13 second run.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^appreciate your info, sir.

wanna race!?!?

Sonnick

Lol. NJCharger I'm assuming you're from NJ? I'm from Long Island. Once I get my motor mounts so I can launch, I think we'd have a good run. Your trap is high, but I still think the reason my trap stayed the same with my new mods is because of my broken mounts (not to mention the CEL). I did a 14.0 with a 2.347 60' (no launch). So I see no issue running mid 13s.

I know drivers make a big impact. He spun off the line a good amount. The way he pulled me from 60-70ish was crazy, you would've thought I let off the gas. 2nd gear ends at 62ish so I had to shift, but I mean, I shift fast...and he pulled from being on my bumper, to me being on his bumper within 10mph. He must've been at the top of 2nd while I shifted to the bottom of 3rd.

njcharger

Yep, I'm from NJ. What gave it away, haha? Central-ish, a little south of Trenton. I normally go to Atco because A) its an easier drive, and B) Englishtown cost $40 to run, and even though I hear you get better times at Englishtown, Im not so sure the drive and the extra cash is worth the .1 in time reduction. Where do you go?

AtlM5

wasnt it a z51 vett...im pretty sure those run mid-low 12s...stock srt shouldn't have much of a chance with all that weight.

njcharger

Z51 is really just a handling package. The only performance mod they get is better gearing but it doesn't make THAT big of a difference in 1/4 times, maybe .1-.2 shaved off the time but it's no low 12s car on street tires. Cause then what would be the point of a ZO6? It'd be a different story if they were taking turns, then a Z51 package would make a major difference, its comparable to the ZO6 in lap times. If the Vette had an intake and exhaust that would be the main boost in performance for straight line.

MVR 155

When it comes to base C6 vettes you have to realize they changed to the LS3 in 2008, its rated at 430HP and that is very conservative, there have been guys that have cracked the 11 second barrier with them stock, most guys who are half way decent drivers are pulling bottom 12's. C6 Z06's driven right are good for low-mid 11's (guys are getting into the 10's with just drag radials). I went 12.0 in my 2002 Z06 when it was stock. Just about all of the SRT-8 cars I see at the track are running right at the 13.0-13.1 range trapping 108-109mph. A person driving a LS3 C6 vette the right way is going to stomp an SRT-8

If you want to check out a really good database of vette times check out Corvetteforum and check the "fast list" in the C6/C6Z06/C5/C5Z06 catagories.

Sonnick

Atco is cheaper?

I've been to Englishtown. You usually only get 3 runs @Etown. Only once did I get more and that was with my previous car.

I'm gonna be going to Island Drag whenever I get my Innovative motor mounts (if the track is still open) because I heard you get a LOT of runs there. If I go I'll let you know, maybe we could set up a run or 2.

njcharger

@Sonnick

Yeah, Atco used to be $15, last time I went (last season) it was $20, but it might vary by day, I went on a Tuesday when I had off. I was there from like 5pm until 11pm. When I got there it was PACKED, got maybe 4-5 runs in my first 4 hours there. Then it started dying down. By 10pm there were only like 15-20 cars left running. It was awesome. I must have gotten 15 runs total that day, most of them were once it died down. Not to mention I got to watch a new ZR1 with temp plates and an 08' Porsche Turbo race (they were friends, young software engineers or something, wish I had that kind of money).

There were lots of cars blowing up earlier on in the day, I probably would have gotten more, but you get a lot of that at Atco. People blowing their cars then Atcos slow clean up time, took them an hour or so to get one cleaned.

Their track prep really sucks though, so even though its a better DA at Atco than Englishtown normally, you still get better times at Englishtown. But for the price and the amount of runs, I think its worth it. Half the price and more than double the runs at a cost of .1-.2 slower times.

If you end up going let me know and I'll check on here. See what we can do.

mazdaspeed3God

I'm sorry if I made you upset. I didn't mean to flame you Honda/ Acura enthusiasts like yourself. There are some good people around here including yourself. I will try to refrain from making such act... it's just that it's fun playing around with some other folks here (know who I'm referring to). And I'm also very against automatic equipped cars... especially the Honda and Acura. But I do like their manuals. It's done right.



I can't launch from dig with any manual cars, which is why I refrain from joining drag race events even though I do know a lot about cars. I am a hardcore car enthusiast. Yes it' true I beat a late model Mustang GT ('08 or '09) with my stock MS3 from 4th gear up to 6th. That mustang was also modded. It had some exhaust mods done to it. This isn't surprising as those Mustangs (except for the very latest models) are weak up top due to poor powerband and long gearing. I said this over and over but tall gears aren't your friend when it comes to racing unless you have huge amount of power under the hood. Honda, Nissan, Acura, all these cars don't have much torque which is why you need closer gears. MS3 really excels in gearing department, plus lots of torque it generates. From dig it's slow but from roll all hell break lose it's not even funny.

I hate cars

You know nothing about cars as you readily admitted in the past on other forums. I'm going to be all over you on every post.

You already made me post your home address, maybe you need your phone number posted too. One more post on acurazine in any thread and your phone number gets posted. After that I'm going to get much more personal into your family life. You dug this hole. To make it easy on you, I'll keep updating your personal info in this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=792375&page=2

F23A4

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