My 3.0 dyno vs a 3.5L TL-S.

First of all I would like to thank Dom-GSR for helping me with my car. His maps made Derek (the guy that dyno tuned my car) much easier and help me saved some time since I basically drove 8 hours today, and just got home at 11pm EST.

Secondly, I would like to thank Derek for being an awesome guy and just answering a lot of questions that I had about tuning, getting my water/methanol to work perfectly with my car, and just being a good guy to talk to.

Lastly, does anyone know if Corey is on here? I want to know exactly what was on your car when you dyno.












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TL-S with bolt on made 281whp. I end up making 253whp

I will try to upload better videos later.

 

Awesome dude thx for sharing

List of mods for TL-S? Manual or auto?

And what gear did you guys use on the dyno?

 

Thanks for sharing your results!

What's your mod list? Also do you know why you have the big dip around 5000 RPM?

 

Corey with the silver TL-S with yellow fog film?

 

^ i have no idea. Can you ask him if this was his dyno. I want to know what he had on his car. Derek overlayed his map on mine. I just wanted to see the difference in power to justify my low numbers especially on a dynapack. So 30whp/30tq difference between a TL-s is not too bad considering my car is .5L smaller.

vtec was set at 5k. Tired moving it up and down but the numbers got worst and there was a massive drop in tq.

Car has everything you can think of

Paul SRI
RV6 v3 HFPC
ATLP v1 j-pipe
ralco pulley stock diameter
PnP MDX spacer
PnP heads off a TLs
MDX 09 camshafts
PnP & gasket matched runners
Aqua mist w/m (my car had zero knock no matter how much timing was added) IAT was around 80-90*F. Outside temp was 75-85*F
Magnaflow catback
megan test pipe

Kinda wish I Gasket matched the exhaust port. It was a 2-3mm different all around in material that could have been taken off to increase exhaust gas flow.

I think I am done with this car. No more messing around. saving up for a 2015 NSX or something else.

 

Thank you for the list.

Where you hoping for more power? I ask because you say your done with the car. An Accord to NSX, that's one heck of a jump!

 

I was hoping for 270whp, but realistically I knew it was going to be around 250whp (etuning with DomGSR-T, and doing street pulls). Considering that I have all the bolt on + PnP cylinder heads and MDX camshaft + water/methanol. But for it is I will take it. There not a lot of power to be gained N/A on these car. Derek told me that the flashpro on the j-series is very weak compared to the K-series. There a lot of flexibility with other platforms.


The etune pulls were fairly accurate





Just a heads up. Water meth does make a huge different and is a added safety net. My car never knocked even with insane amount of timing added. IAT was also around ambient temp to a few degrees less. Manifold was never heat soaked.

 

You should try removing the MDX spacer. That was designed to help aid in torque but will (or should in theory) reduce HP. Also With those mods, have you considered a larger TB to see if you can get more air in?

 

When you say your car didn't knock with the timing, are you talking about the 3rd gear street pulls or 4th gear dyno pulls? Reason I ask is, I didn't knock in 3rd on the street until like 38 degrees timing, whereas I did a 5th gear dyno pull and was knocking at 32 degrees. Load plays a big part in knock as well, so I've since decreased timing to 30 degrees max.

I'm just realizing from the post above that you are still on the stock TB and intake manifold as well...not to mention a SRI. Man, that's probably 15+whp just sitting there, perhaps a little more considering you have ported Type S heads. Also, the V1 Jpipe & Magnaflow catback are somewhat restricting you too, IMO. You could theoretically make an additional 20whp IMO, just by changing some intake & exhaust components.

 

Doesn't knock on the street run doing 123 runs or on the dyno in 3rd gear. But there was no power to be made at higher timing so he dropped it back down. Most of my power was made after leaning up the AFR to around 13.3

 

You dyno'd in 3rd gear? Smh...now with Flashpro, we should really be in 5th because it's closest to 1:1. 4th is good too, but 5th would probably be the most accurate.

 

5th is too tall / too much mph with our FD no?

 

I think 4th gear would be better for guys with stock final gears. Your car sonic should be using 4-5 since your final drive now changed all the numbers on all the previous gears. So that the ratio isn't the same anymore.

I do think that the mdx spacer does shift the power band more towards the left, but I was looking for more power under the curve since that is where I spend most of my time driving. I rarely go into vtec anymore After a huge ticket for exibition of speed for a 3rd gear datalog.

but I really think I am done putting money into the car. I have it where I want it to be in terms of drivablity, power, and mpg

 

The final drive doesn't change the ratios of the other gears in relation to each other, but shortens the MPH in each one. It's really difficult to explain and I'm not even sure I understand the relationship fully.

I should be dyno'ing in 5th though, yes. You definitely should've dyno'd in 4th gear, though. That would have made a difference. You also would knock sooner in 4th because of the much larger load.

 

It too late now. I am done with this project. been fun while it lasted but j series sucks in terms of cost to performance ratio.

If I were to do it again I would have skipped the PnP heads and did stage 2/3 camshaft and retainer.

Saving up for an nsx for my graduation present now... after I replace the axles on my car. Money pit galore

 

That extra displacement makes a big difference especially since it's a larger bore on the J32. I wouldn't be so quick to write off FlashPro for the J. The K's are a different beast relative to the J... I think the J series respond very well to breather mods and tuning.

Why not get a GTR? save yourself $50k lol plus after having a first year model 3G TL I would shy away from the first model year of any car... I am keeping my eye on the Ford RS and CTR.

 

I am a Honda fan :p

 

Why don't you do that now? You'll probably recoup some money too selling the PnP heads and picking up a used set of used ones.

 

I respectfully disagree on Hondata, with the right part mix it's incredibly effective at unlocking HP, TQ. Below are my mods and graphs from before and after.

After over a year of sitting dormant, I finally got around to getting Hondata installed and tuned. As a result, Driveability is drastically better and the powerband is super smooth

Baseline Peak WHP: 250.6
Baseline Peak WTQ: 224.8

Tuned Peak WHP: 273.1
Tuned Peak WTQ: 234.3



-2005 Acura Tl 6 Speed (From Tl-Sport) w/LSD
-Ported/polished J30 heads.
-07 TL type S Cams
-Milled MDX Spacer
-Ported 6-speed Intake Manifold
-Acura MDX Crank and Rods
-Shaved heads to bump compression to 11:0-1
-Acura MDX rod bearings
-J30 block and pistons
-Custom pre-cat deletes
-Rv6-J Pipe
-Magnaflow high flow 3rd cat
-Greddy Evo Exhaust
-Injen CAI
-S2k Mugen Thermostat
-07 TL Type S ECU tuned via Evans Tuning using Hondata Flashpro.
-UR Underdrive Pulley
-AEM UEGO Wideband Sensor
-AEM Water/Coolant Temp Sensor

 

How much money did you put in before hondata? cost of your build for j33?? I mean your car is the only one I seen gain over 20whp/20wtq after hondata. which is pretty impressive. What were your running before hand? Stock ecu or aem fic

 

I do agree with you that hondata does give a richer experience compared to the stock ECU. Somedays the car would drive great on the ecu, somedays it would buckle for no reason, and other days it would be lazy. With hondata the car is always ready to go.

 

The pre numbers were nearly identical between the AEM FIC/3.2TL base map. On the FIC I had 252 WHP, so this was still a 20+ WHP boost over the FIC.

How much invested into the build? If we are specifically talking performance, I built the heads first, total cost was ~$1800. Another $3k for the bottom end and roughly $3400 for the TL 6 Speed LSD swap. That doesn't count the rest of my prior bolt ons. Just in the build with transmission swap probably looking at $8500-9k

 

Could the tuner be the reason why so much gain over others?

 

I gained ~20 WHP and ~10 WTQ peak, after adding CAI and an RV6 J-pipe with a VitViper Etune. The tune was a work in progress when I last dyno'd it almost a year ago (dynojet) same one for both my dyno runs. Both runs done during King's Dyno Day Event. Flashpro runs where very consistent, compared to the stock ECU run's.

Mods:
RV6 TD Exhaust
RV6 J-pipe
Injen CAI
FlashPro

 

Definitely a good probability yeah. Jeff has done well by several J series owners. If I do add some more performance parts this summer he will for sure do any retunes. Worth the 2 hour drive each way.

 

Does Evans only tune on the dyno or both dyno and test drives?

 

where is Jeff located? I really don't think there a problem with the tuners both Dom and Derek. But maybe a problem with the car. Dom tuned Sonnick car and it made good power.

What is a normal compression test number on the j30/j32? I am starting to think that the miss match bore on the TL-S heads 89mm to my 86mm block has caused a dropped in Compression ratio down to 9ish instead of bumping it up closer to 10.3:1 CR. That would probably explain the low power reading.

Also I think if I were to continue I would get a j32/j35 block. But I think I need to take a break from all of this for now. Getting married so priorities have changed.

 

They do both, all depends what your looking to do. Visit www.evanstuning.com

That lists what's included and pricing.

He is located in Mt. Bethel PA, about 90 miles southwest of NYC.

 

Wow.. 273 with all those mods?.. Hmm.. Here i thought i was underachieving lol.. 273/223 before hondata and its just sitting here waiting to be i stalled and tuned

 

The service manual only lists a minimum pressure of 135 psi, doesn't say what new is suppose to be, should be more than that, my B18C1 tested over 200psi. I would go with a compression ratio calculator, the larger cylinder head volume may have caused a drop in power. I don't know what the cc's are for the J35 head vs the J30. did you cc your heads? If you have a lower compression ratio maybe you should boost it

Congrats on the married part!

It's a reality check, be happy with what you got and get that sh*t tuned.


This is separate from my two comments above, more of a general statement, but I feel people expect a lot out of the J's by interchanging OEM parts to try and get more power. Yes you will get more power but nowhere near as much as going with an aftermarket cams/grind,higher compression,stroke, custom intakes, etc. You could consider the 3.0 to 3.3 J's to be the small blocks and the 3.5 to 3.7's J's to be the big blocks, although they are all the same relative block. It's like the b16 vs the b18, same basic engine but different performance.

 

A TL-s 6MT with "catless downpipes, custom exhaust, intake, TB spacer & IM spacer" (quoting Evans iG) made 288/262 on their Dynapack dyno, so it probably reads similarly to a Dynojet.

Jeff Evans is arguably one of the best tuners in the country. If I was getting tuned on the Dyno again, there is no doubt I would make the trip to Jeff. He has a built J series making tons of power (an additional 40whp over last year just from ITBs and a new header setup), so he is very familiar with the J.

ILC made 320 with 12:1 CR, cams & head porting on a built J35a8. Evans made 420 last year on 14:1 CR, cams & head porting on a built J37. That's a ridiculous increase, so Jeff is doing something right and I would certainly trust him with my car.

 

Found the real website. Evans Tuning - Dyno Tuning, Aftermarket Performance, & Fabrication


I will do the compression test again once everything settle downs. I also did not CC the tl-s heads prior to installing. I assumed that they would work and just put it on since someone did it once on V6P. I really should have done more research. This is why I am a pharmacist(still a student), not an engine builder.

 

According to their website, looks like it's a built j32.

 

I've heard good things about Evans. If I do cams I'll go there to get tuned.

 

They used a J32a2 longblock with the MDX crank. Also looks like they are using reground OEM cams...something to think about.

 

Wish I was closer to them.

 

J32a2 heads are much easier to work with In terms of making power. I should have done that instead of the tls heads. Then do custom long headers

 

Eh lol... Maybe slightly better

 

I like boost :P

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