To the Brooklyn Residents...Ticket Help
12-05-2009, 07:59 PM
#1
CG5 in
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To the Brooklyn Residents...Ticket Help
Got a ticket on Flatbush avenue and Pacific Street going Northbound...for illegal left turn. $130 
Basically, this left turn I have seen made by countless amounts of drivers, and I've done it once or twice when I needed to go on Atlantic from Flatbush (or 4th Ave). This one afternoon, I turned, and there was a double parked, unmarked, black Detective car on the right side, with an officer speaking to the car in front of me, stopped. Then she motioned me down. Asked for license/registration. I asked, what's the matter, what's going on here. She said I made an illegal Left turn. I was clueless to it, she said there's a sign on the N/W corner. I never really saw the sign before since it's such a common turn (I obviously wouldn't have turned if I saw it/knew it!).
So she takes my license, I park and look at the sign (lo and behold). While I'm waiting to leave, the second male officer stops a car with illegal tints, claiming he could give the driver a ticket for each window. After getting my stuff back I ask how come that person was let go without a summons and I received one. He said that the driver made a legal turn (didn't believe that), and he pulled him over for his tints, but let him go because his windshield wasn't tinted. wtf?
I honestly think that he could have let me off with a warning. fuckin end of the month quota bullshit.
I have 8 days to respond to it. Any help or advice? I don't have any other infractions on my license, and I'd love to not have any points or whatever for this, but I really don't have the money.
Basically, this left turn I have seen made by countless amounts of drivers, and I've done it once or twice when I needed to go on Atlantic from Flatbush (or 4th Ave). This one afternoon, I turned, and there was a double parked, unmarked, black Detective car on the right side, with an officer speaking to the car in front of me, stopped. Then she motioned me down. Asked for license/registration. I asked, what's the matter, what's going on here. She said I made an illegal Left turn. I was clueless to it, she said there's a sign on the N/W corner. I never really saw the sign before since it's such a common turn (I obviously wouldn't have turned if I saw it/knew it!).
So she takes my license, I park and look at the sign (lo and behold). While I'm waiting to leave, the second male officer stops a car with illegal tints, claiming he could give the driver a ticket for each window. After getting my stuff back I ask how come that person was let go without a summons and I received one. He said that the driver made a legal turn (didn't believe that), and he pulled him over for his tints, but let him go because his windshield wasn't tinted. wtf?
I honestly think that he could have let me off with a warning. fuckin end of the month quota bullshit.
I have 8 days to respond to it. Any help or advice? I don't have any other infractions on my license, and I'd love to not have any points or whatever for this, but I really don't have the money.
12-06-2009, 08:10 AM
#3
I'm not a Brooklyn resident but a former Manhattan resident. If you have time, got to court. Tell them EXACTLY what you told us here (minus the guy with the tint - that has nothing to do with you). Be nice and also mentioned that you have nothing on your license and that you did not notice that sign. Key is clean license, "I didn't see that sign."
Most likely one of two things will happen. The cop may not show up at court and if you're right that she is a detective, most likely wont. They are the higher levels of LE and may think that court duty is above and beyond them. The other thing is that if you are nice and all the planets line up, they will change it to a non-moving violation but they will make you pay some money.
Remember, all they want is their money and all you want is no points. Win-win situation.
Most likely one of two things will happen. The cop may not show up at court and if you're right that she is a detective, most likely wont. They are the higher levels of LE and may think that court duty is above and beyond them. The other thing is that if you are nice and all the planets line up, they will change it to a non-moving violation but they will make you pay some money.
Remember, all they want is their money and all you want is no points. Win-win situation.
12-06-2009, 10:28 AM
#4
CG5 in
Thread Starter
Well I'm going to put not guilty on the ticket (handwritten one) and send it in. Let's hope for the best. Does it make a difference if I do it online?
Thanks for the support and advice guys. I appreciate it.
Thanks for the support and advice guys. I appreciate it.
12-06-2009, 12:51 PM
#5
CG5 in
Thread Starter
from another forum:
I'm not saying what I did was right by any means. If the sign was there when I made the turn, it was an illegal turn. But I've been down that same block for years when it wasn't there. Obviously his pulling me over and alerting me to it makes it clear now. The $130 fine is adding insult to injury I think. A warning for a young driver would have been sufficient in making me not do that turn again that they deem "a dangerous intersection." From where the turning point is, 1. There is a break in the double yellow line indicating that it's ok to turn. 2. From that turning point, because of the angle of the intersection, you would have to know that the sign is there in order to be looking there (as in your eyes wouldn't be in that direction if you were looking to turn on the street).
But how will I know that I won't get any points? And people have said that if I lose, I may end up paying more. But I may also get it overturned and not have to pay anything.
Nah u not going to get out... Its funny how they have some many signs at eye level... but if you relize every illegal turn sign is up in the air. even if the other driver did make a illegal turn and got away doesnt mean what u supposely did, was right... if the sign was there and you made the turn.. garunteed the judge will find you guilty.. the only fight against that, is if the sign wasn't clearly visble from where you were driving... example: trees blocking, graffiti, darkness
But how will I know that I won't get any points? And people have said that if I lose, I may end up paying more. But I may also get it overturned and not have to pay anything.
12-06-2009, 02:10 PM
#6
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just fight it, u never know what happens, mostly likely they would either give u no points and make u pay, or give u the points and pay half the fine, and if ur found guilty, u will pay the fine and the surcharge and have the points, the points will go away if u dont get any points within 18 months, or u can take a 6 hr class so it can take 4 points off your license, its nothing serious, ur over dramatic over this ticket
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12-06-2009, 05:14 PM
#8
from another forum:
1. There is a break in the double yellow line indicating that it's ok to turn.
But how will I know that I won't get any points? And people have said that if I lose, I may end up paying more. But I may also get it overturned and not have to pay anything.
1. There is a break in the double yellow line indicating that it's ok to turn.
But how will I know that I won't get any points? And people have said that if I lose, I may end up paying more. But I may also get it overturned and not have to pay anything.
For your #1, that's not a valid excuse. There are many intersections of major roads where there is No Left, often used to prevent you from clogging up the traffic behind you. However, it's a broken double yellow so the cross traffic can go when it's there turn. Now granted in your case it's not truly an intersection by the pure definition of the word. So, I would not use this argument.
As for just plead guilty and get on with life...I disagree! NEVER plead guilty to any moving violation. If you do, you are done. If you don't, you at least have a chance of it tossed out or reduced. Remember, you do not want points on your license unless you are rich and can pay the increased premiums for 3 years (depending on state regulations). And then for the next 3 years you'll be questioning yourself what if you did fight it in court....
Many, many years ago, I was nailed by a NY State Trooper. He said he estimated I was doing 92 but wrote the ticket for 89 in a 55. To make matters worst, it was laser, which is harder to fight in court due to its precision in picking the target. It was my first moving violation ever (been driving for 10+ years by then). Can you imagine what would have happened if I "just plead guilty and be done with it"?
I fought it in court saying this was my first moving violation and that I had a 10+ year clean record. It was reduced to some no point violation and my fine for $100. I'll let your mind wander on how many points I would have had and how much fine it would have been.
12-07-2009, 10:46 AM
#10
To be honest you don't have a choice. You have to pay it to avoid getting points. I was stopped there a few years ago. If you turn in quickly you don't see the sign until its point out to you. Also there isn't a solid yellow line. The line on the screenshoot is from Google. So that location is misleading. You could try and argue what I pointed out to you but Bloomberg's traffic court isn't trying to hear it. Also if you did make the turn while behind a truck or bus you wouldn't be able to see that sign. It's small IMO.
12-08-2009, 12:57 AM
#11
To be honest you don't have a choice. You have to pay it to avoid getting points. I was stopped there a few years ago. If you turn in quickly you don't see the sign until its point out to you. Also there isn't a solid yellow line. The line on the screenshoot is from Google. So that location is misleading. You could try and argue what I pointed out to you but Bloomberg's traffic court isn't trying to hear it. Also if you did make the turn while behind a truck or bus you wouldn't be able to see that sign. It's small IMO.
Paying it is just a way of accepting a guilty verdict. I say fight it, you have nothing to lose and depending on the judge and your record I say you have a pretty fair shot. If you work and can't make it to court, I have a lawyer that charges $125 per ticket(not per appearance) and does a decent job.
12-10-2009, 04:39 PM
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Here's what you do, plead not guilty, keep postponing it, I think they give you up to 3 times. Everytime you postpone its like another 8 months, wait till you get closer to postpone it. Like case is wednesday and its monday. By the time it goes to court its already like 2 years later and most of the time your insurance doesn't even know about since so much time has passed and I think the most points can show up on your license is like for 3 years then insurance companies don't see it.
12-12-2009, 01:41 PM
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I got a great lawyer in Nassau. He just got me out of my ticket. He fought it for about 2 and a half years and won. It cost me like 400 bucks but I never even had to show up to court. He went like 5 times for me. I would highly reccommend him. The points on the license suck!
12-12-2009, 01:42 PM
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Here's what you do, plead not guilty, keep postponing it, I think they give you up to 3 times. Everytime you postpone its like another 8 months, wait till you get closer to postpone it. Like case is wednesday and its monday. By the time it goes to court its already like 2 years later and most of the time your insurance doesn't even know about since so much time has passed and I think the most points can show up on your license is like for 3 years then insurance companies don't see it.
12-12-2009, 03:38 PM
#17
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Here's what you do, plead not guilty, keep postponing it, I think they give you up to 3 times. Everytime you postpone its like another 8 months, wait till you get closer to postpone it. Like case is wednesday and its monday. By the time it goes to court its already like 2 years later and most of the time your insurance doesn't even know about since so much time has passed and I think the most points can show up on your license is like for 3 years then insurance companies don't see it.
12-13-2009, 12:16 AM
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Here's what you do, plead not guilty, keep postponing it, I think they give you up to 3 times. Everytime you postpone its like another 8 months, wait till you get closer to postpone it. Like case is wednesday and its monday. By the time it goes to court its already like 2 years later and most of the time your insurance doesn't even know about since so much time has passed and I think the most points can show up on your license is like for 3 years then insurance companies don't see it.
12-15-2009, 02:52 PM
#21
I got a great lawyer in Nassau. He just got me out of my ticket. He fought it for about 2 and a half years and won. It cost me like 400 bucks but I never even had to show up to court. He went like 5 times for me. I would highly reccommend him. The points on the license suck!
Name slips my mind though...
12-16-2009, 06:42 PM
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Yeah you can postpone it by calling the number on the desk appearance ticket a day or 2 before.
01-24-2010, 07:14 PM
#28
CG5 in
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Got back from the DMV Traffic Violations Bureau, found guilty
$130. I'm gonna appeal it in Albany, but it's gonna cost me $50 more to send a transcription of the hearing to the appeals board. Basically, the officer (surprised he showed up) was asked if there was a break in the yellow lines. He said he wasn't sure at the time.
I think that his unsureness should be enough to throw out the case. If I had pictures, that would have sealed it (I said I had pictures on my camera, but not printed out). The judge said that he's gonna assume that they were broken. But he still fount me guilty 
Gonna appeal it, but I have to pay it first to hopefully be reimbursed later. But I need to see if I can find a way to find old pictures/videos of the street where the yellow lines are broken.
UPDATE: I found some pictures from Google Maps that look recent...but I don't have a date for when they were taken. Google Earth has satellite images from March 2008 that show them broken as well, but that's too long ago I think.
I took some pictures last friday (the date of the hearing) and of course, the gap was filled up (been filled for a few weeks now, obviously since the new year). But the lines don't line up...indicative that it was in fact filling a gap. I'll post these later.
$130. I'm gonna appeal it in Albany, but it's gonna cost me $50 more to send a transcription of the hearing to the appeals board. Basically, the officer (surprised he showed up) was asked if there was a break in the yellow lines. He said he wasn't sure at the time.
I think that his unsureness should be enough to throw out the case. If I had pictures, that would have sealed it (I said I had pictures on my camera, but not printed out
). The judge said that he's gonna assume that they were broken. But he still fount me guilty Gonna appeal it, but I have to pay it first to hopefully be reimbursed later. But I need to see if I can find a way to find old pictures/videos of the street where the yellow lines are broken.
UPDATE: I found some pictures from Google Maps that look recent...but I don't have a date for when they were taken. Google Earth has satellite images from March 2008 that show them broken as well, but that's too long ago I think.
I took some pictures last friday (the date of the hearing) and of course, the gap was filled up (been filled for a few weeks now, obviously since the new year). But the lines don't line up...indicative that it was in fact filling a gap. I'll post these later.
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