GP of Singapore 2008
#1
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
GP of Singapore 2008
Friday Practice 1:
Damp track?
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.518
2. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:45.598
3. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:45.961
4. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.463
5. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:46.618
6. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:46.710
7. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:46.725
8. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:46.964
9. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:47.175
10. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:47.277
11. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.570
12. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:47.662
13. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:47.706
14. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:48.097
15. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:48.517
16. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:48.725
17. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:48.839
18. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:48.906
19. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:49.064
20. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:53.703
1. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.518
2. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:45.598
3. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:45.961
4. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.463
5. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:46.618
6. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:46.710
7. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:46.725
8. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:46.964
9. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:47.175
10. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:47.277
11. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.570
12. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:47.662
13. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:47.706
14. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:48.097
15. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:48.517
16. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:48.725
17. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:48.839
18. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:48.906
19. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:49.064
20. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:53.703
#2
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:45.654
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.752
3. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:45.793
4. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.797
5. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:46.164
6. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:46.384
7. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:46.580
8. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:46.901
9. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:47.013
10. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:47.046
11. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:47.137
12. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:47.145
13. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.300
14. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.487
15. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:47.640
16. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:47.760
17. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:47.965
18. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:48.009
19. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:48.059
20. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:48.311
1. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:45.654
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.752
3. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:45.793
4. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.797
5. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:46.164
6. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:46.384
7. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:46.580
8. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:46.901
9. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:47.013
10. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:47.046
11. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:47.137
12. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:47.145
13. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.300
14. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.487
15. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:47.640
16. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:47.760
17. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:47.965
18. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:48.009
19. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:48.059
20. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:48.311
#6
6G TLX-S
I guess that makes the race more exciting as the drivers have to be extra careful not to scrape either the walls nor the concrete barriers.
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#8
Three Wheelin'
Qualifying - Massa on pole
01 F. Massa Ferrari 1:44.801
02 L. Hamilton McLaren 1:45.465
03 K. Räikkönen Ferrari 1:45.617
04 R. Kubica BMW 1:45.779
05 H. Kovalainen McLaren 1:45.873
06 N. Heidfeld BMW 1:45.964
07 S. Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:46.244
08 T. Glock Toyota 1:46.328
09 N. Rosberg Williams 1:46.611
10 K. Nakajima Williams 1:47.547
11 J. Trulli Toyota 1:45.038
12 J. Button Honda 1:45.133
13 M. Webber Red Bull 1:45.212
14 D. Coulthard Red Bull 1:45.298
15 F. Alonso Renault no time
16 N. Piquet jr. Renault 1:46.037
17 S. Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:46.389
18 R. Barrichello Honda 1:46.583
19 A. Sutil Force India F1 1:47.940
20 G. Fisichella Force India F1 no time
02 L. Hamilton McLaren 1:45.465
03 K. Räikkönen Ferrari 1:45.617
04 R. Kubica BMW 1:45.779
05 H. Kovalainen McLaren 1:45.873
06 N. Heidfeld BMW 1:45.964
07 S. Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:46.244
08 T. Glock Toyota 1:46.328
09 N. Rosberg Williams 1:46.611
10 K. Nakajima Williams 1:47.547
11 J. Trulli Toyota 1:45.038
12 J. Button Honda 1:45.133
13 M. Webber Red Bull 1:45.212
14 D. Coulthard Red Bull 1:45.298
15 F. Alonso Renault no time
16 N. Piquet jr. Renault 1:46.037
17 S. Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:46.389
18 R. Barrichello Honda 1:46.583
19 A. Sutil Force India F1 1:47.940
20 G. Fisichella Force India F1 no time
#10
Senior Moderator
Not that anyone will see this before the race,............
LINK http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8444.html
Heidfeld dropped, Barrichello fined after pit-entry confusion
BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld and Honda’s Rubens Barrichello have been penalised by race stewards in Singapore after an incident at the pit entry during the first phase of qualifying.
Heidfeld, who was to start the race from P6, has been dropped three places on the grid for impeding Barrichello, while the Brazilian has been handed a 10,000 euro fine for incorrectly entering the pit lane.
As he was completing his in-lap after his final Q1 run, Heidfeld was slowing to enter the pit lane when he was caught by Barrichello, on a flying lap. Barrichello was forced to slow and then chose to abort his lap and also enter the pits at the last minute, failing to correctly use the designated deceleration zone as he did so.
LINK http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8444.html
Heidfeld dropped, Barrichello fined after pit-entry confusion
BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld and Honda’s Rubens Barrichello have been penalised by race stewards in Singapore after an incident at the pit entry during the first phase of qualifying.
Heidfeld, who was to start the race from P6, has been dropped three places on the grid for impeding Barrichello, while the Brazilian has been handed a 10,000 euro fine for incorrectly entering the pit lane.
As he was completing his in-lap after his final Q1 run, Heidfeld was slowing to enter the pit lane when he was caught by Barrichello, on a flying lap. Barrichello was forced to slow and then chose to abort his lap and also enter the pits at the last minute, failing to correctly use the designated deceleration zone as he did so.
#14
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Thread Starter
Very interesting race. I loved the track and the night time atmosphere. However, it seems kinda wrong for Renault to win a race due to a full course yellow caused by Renault.
Also, at the start of the race, it appeared to me that Alonso passed a couple of cars by shorting the chicane during the first corner melee. I'm surprised that no one raised this issue. I didn't record it, so I can't confirm it, or confirm that Alonso gave up those spots after the chicane. But that would certainly explain how he gained three spots during the first lap.
Also, at the start of the race, it appeared to me that Alonso passed a couple of cars by shorting the chicane during the first corner melee. I'm surprised that no one raised this issue. I didn't record it, so I can't confirm it, or confirm that Alonso gave up those spots after the chicane. But that would certainly explain how he gained three spots during the first lap.
#15
Senior Moderator
WTF Ferrari. Get rid of that stupid electronic sign and put a man in there with the lollipop
#16
Unofficial Goat
iTrader: (1)
For the fuel mans safety they should not be allowed to run this system as it has proven itself still unsafe. There should be a clutch interlock system that will not allow the clutch to be engaged while the fueling rig is attached, instead of this proximity sensor crap that obviously doesnt work.
Last edited by The Dougler; 10-02-2008 at 01:46 PM.
#17
Senior Moderator
For the fuel mans safety they should not be allowed to run this system as it has proven itself still unsafe. There should be a clutch interlock system that will not allow the clutch to be engaged while the fueling rig is attached, instead of this proximity sensor crap that obviously doesnt work.
#18
Big Block go VROOOM!
They could just make a rule that says the car must remain up on the jacks until the fuel hose is disconnected. The car isn't going anywhere if the wheels aren't on the ground. The problem with that, of course, is that F1 has people standing directly in front of the car for the jacks.
Last edited by Billiam; 10-02-2008 at 10:48 PM.
#19
Senior Moderator
Well after reading earlier it sounds like the system was on manual control and was who ever was in charges fault. Either way someone needs to revamp that system.
#20
6G TLX-S
Things don't seem to run smoothly once Ross has left the Ferrari team.
#21
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Hey, if Ferrari wants to keep paying the hospital bills of the fuel rig guys, let them. I personally think they should've been banned for a race after this incident, but it is Ferrari. I dislike Massa, but he did his job correctly in both incidents.
#22
6G TLX-S
FIA should start imposing hefty fines to pit area incidences. It has formulated rules to protect the F1 drivers, and it should also come up with rules to protect all pit crews who are no lesser people than the drivers.
#23
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21777.html
The revenge or Piquet? Note to Flavio, don't fire someone if you have secrets that you don't want exposed.
The Brazilian TV station Globo has claimed that Nelson Piquet was ordered to crash by the Renault team during the Singapore GP last year. The accident resulted in a Safety Car which played into the hands of Fernando Alonso, who had pitted just before the accident occurred. The result was that Renault was able to win the race.
There were suspicions at the time that this had happened but there was no proof. Since Piquet was fired by Renault, claims have been flying around and Globo says that it has received information that there is evidence to back up the story. We hear that the FIA may call in an independent body to investigate the claims being made.
There were suspicions at the time that this had happened but there was no proof. Since Piquet was fired by Renault, claims have been flying around and Globo says that it has received information that there is evidence to back up the story. We hear that the FIA may call in an independent body to investigate the claims being made.
#25
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...nd-of-renault/
Did Renault cause Massa to lose the championship last year?
The perfect excuse for Renault to quit?
Flavio to get a lifetime ?
The FIA’s investigation into Nelson Piquet’s crash in last year’s Singapore GP could have huge implications – and it’s not impossible that it could trigger the departure of Renault from F1.
The FIA has not yet formally confirmed that the enquiry is happening, and has only said that there is a review of an incident in a ‘previous race.’ The fact that no details have emerged and that no one is talking is perhaps a sign of just how seriously it is being taken.
We now await word that the World Motor Sport Council will look into the matter, and until that happens we can only guess at what is happening.
However, there is no question that if the Renault team management is found guilty of asking or inducing Piquet Jr to generate a safety car in Singapore then the punishment could be huge.
The only comparable precedent could be the ban served on Toyota for a blatant technical infringement in the World Rally Championship.
If Renault is for example excluded from all or part of the 2010 season – or even later races in 2009 depending on the timing of any outcome – then it’s easy to imagine the French manufacturer walking away from the sport, and not waiting around to return when its sentence ended.
Its involvement is already regarded as tenuous, and many still believe that it could withdraw before next season, presumably handing the team over to Flavio Briatore as it leaves. A massive controversy would likely only hasten the company’s exit from its role as a team owner.
Renault could even completely cut its ties with the sport, leaving no future engine supply for potential 2010 customers such as Williams, or for ‘Briatore Grand Prix’ if and when the team is eligible to compete once more.
In one further twist, should the controversy be resolved sooner rather than later, and the outcome involve an immediate ban from some of the remaining 2009 races, then Fernando Alonso would be free to walk. And he therefore might just be in a position to race a Ferrari before the end of the season...
If Renault’s departure is hastened by this affair, it would be a disaster for F1. You could certainly ask why, at this difficult time, would the FIA chase another manufacturer out? On the other had if an offense of such a serious nature has been committed, how could it be ignored?
Things were certainly moving behind the scenes in Belgium last weekend. Under the FIA’s rules a past race can be looked into either by the stewards of the original event, or by three others nominated by the FIA. The original trios were not in Belgium last weekend, and we believe that the three Spa stewards looked into the matter when they had a little spare time, and presumably reviewed videos. They would have done so in conjunction with the FIA Observer, Herbie Blash, who was also involved in a similar role in the post-Australia Hamilton investigation.
Encouraging a driver to crash has safety implications, especially at a street circuit where spectators are close to the action, and there are issues with flying debris. Marshals and Piquet himself were also put in danger. (It was actually quite a big impact, far bigger than what was needed to trigger a safety car. The joke at the time was that the beleaguered Nelson couldn’t even crash properly...)
That’s on top of the whole question of team orders being used, and unfairly influencing the result of a competition. The safety car generated a victory for Renault that the team wouldn’t, in normal circumstances, have been able to earn. Consider too that Felipe Massa was leading comfortably until the safety car turned the race on its head. In the panic in the Ferrari pits he drove off with his fuel hose, and scored zero points instead of 10. He was to lose the World Championship a few weeks later by one point...
All of this indicates just how seriously the FIA could take this, and just how far. The FIA will also have to discover just who was in the loop.
Flavio Briatore has had to work hard to keep Renault interested, and Fernando Alonso’s win in Singapore (and the subsequent one in Fuji) certainly helped him this time last year. Promoting Romain Grosjean to a race seat, and encouraging us to believe that he is French rather than Swiss, is another part of his attempt to keep his bosses sweet.
Ironically it seems that the same decision may have prompted the new investigation. The fact that it happened just weeks after Piquet was sacked, and that the news initially emerged from Brazilian TV, is a clear indication of that.
If Nelsinho is behind it, will it be his word against his former team’s? Did he retain some material evidence relating to the ‘plot’ – an email, an SMS perhaps? The FIA had access to Renault’s radio traffic at the time, and one presumes that it was checked and nothing untoward was found. But there may be something that seemed innocuous then – a coded message so to speak – that can now be interpreted differently.
Some of us had wondered why Nelson Piquet Sr. had attended every race this year, when we barely saw him at all in 2008. The cynical suggestion was that the elder Piquet was there to remind Briatore that it would not be wise to sack his boy, that perhaps he had some ‘information.’ If Flav in effect called the Piquet family’s bluff by replacing Nelson, he may well have cause to regret it.
The FIA has not yet formally confirmed that the enquiry is happening, and has only said that there is a review of an incident in a ‘previous race.’ The fact that no details have emerged and that no one is talking is perhaps a sign of just how seriously it is being taken.
We now await word that the World Motor Sport Council will look into the matter, and until that happens we can only guess at what is happening.
However, there is no question that if the Renault team management is found guilty of asking or inducing Piquet Jr to generate a safety car in Singapore then the punishment could be huge.
The only comparable precedent could be the ban served on Toyota for a blatant technical infringement in the World Rally Championship.
If Renault is for example excluded from all or part of the 2010 season – or even later races in 2009 depending on the timing of any outcome – then it’s easy to imagine the French manufacturer walking away from the sport, and not waiting around to return when its sentence ended.
Its involvement is already regarded as tenuous, and many still believe that it could withdraw before next season, presumably handing the team over to Flavio Briatore as it leaves. A massive controversy would likely only hasten the company’s exit from its role as a team owner.
Renault could even completely cut its ties with the sport, leaving no future engine supply for potential 2010 customers such as Williams, or for ‘Briatore Grand Prix’ if and when the team is eligible to compete once more.
In one further twist, should the controversy be resolved sooner rather than later, and the outcome involve an immediate ban from some of the remaining 2009 races, then Fernando Alonso would be free to walk. And he therefore might just be in a position to race a Ferrari before the end of the season...
If Renault’s departure is hastened by this affair, it would be a disaster for F1. You could certainly ask why, at this difficult time, would the FIA chase another manufacturer out? On the other had if an offense of such a serious nature has been committed, how could it be ignored?
Things were certainly moving behind the scenes in Belgium last weekend. Under the FIA’s rules a past race can be looked into either by the stewards of the original event, or by three others nominated by the FIA. The original trios were not in Belgium last weekend, and we believe that the three Spa stewards looked into the matter when they had a little spare time, and presumably reviewed videos. They would have done so in conjunction with the FIA Observer, Herbie Blash, who was also involved in a similar role in the post-Australia Hamilton investigation.
Encouraging a driver to crash has safety implications, especially at a street circuit where spectators are close to the action, and there are issues with flying debris. Marshals and Piquet himself were also put in danger. (It was actually quite a big impact, far bigger than what was needed to trigger a safety car. The joke at the time was that the beleaguered Nelson couldn’t even crash properly...)
That’s on top of the whole question of team orders being used, and unfairly influencing the result of a competition. The safety car generated a victory for Renault that the team wouldn’t, in normal circumstances, have been able to earn. Consider too that Felipe Massa was leading comfortably until the safety car turned the race on its head. In the panic in the Ferrari pits he drove off with his fuel hose, and scored zero points instead of 10. He was to lose the World Championship a few weeks later by one point...
All of this indicates just how seriously the FIA could take this, and just how far. The FIA will also have to discover just who was in the loop.
Flavio Briatore has had to work hard to keep Renault interested, and Fernando Alonso’s win in Singapore (and the subsequent one in Fuji) certainly helped him this time last year. Promoting Romain Grosjean to a race seat, and encouraging us to believe that he is French rather than Swiss, is another part of his attempt to keep his bosses sweet.
Ironically it seems that the same decision may have prompted the new investigation. The fact that it happened just weeks after Piquet was sacked, and that the news initially emerged from Brazilian TV, is a clear indication of that.
If Nelsinho is behind it, will it be his word against his former team’s? Did he retain some material evidence relating to the ‘plot’ – an email, an SMS perhaps? The FIA had access to Renault’s radio traffic at the time, and one presumes that it was checked and nothing untoward was found. But there may be something that seemed innocuous then – a coded message so to speak – that can now be interpreted differently.
Some of us had wondered why Nelson Piquet Sr. had attended every race this year, when we barely saw him at all in 2008. The cynical suggestion was that the elder Piquet was there to remind Briatore that it would not be wise to sack his boy, that perhaps he had some ‘information.’ If Flav in effect called the Piquet family’s bluff by replacing Nelson, he may well have cause to regret it.
The perfect excuse for Renault to quit?
Flavio to get a lifetime ?
#26
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Nelsinho was asked if he crashed on purpose and he responded something like do you think I would risk my life to bring out a safety car for my team mate? That's ridiculous. I guess we'll have to see what happens.
#27
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so if Renault gets well and truly entirely pissed off and quits as Bernie is suggesting, does the team become Briatore Grand Prix?
#28
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#30
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I have ALWAYS hated Piquet Sr., like Steve said, if his "prick father" dreamed this up, he just "dreamed" his likewise asshole son, out of EVER driving an F1 car again. Stupid fucks.
#31
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Felipe Massa suspected Nelson Piquet crashed deliberately at Singapore last year and confronted Flavio Briatore about the incident in person according to a report.
Speculation in recent days was that the source of the accusation must have been Piquet and his famous father, still furious after being recently ousted by Renault boss Briatore.
But reports this week suggest that Brazilian Massa, who drives for Ferrari, immediately suspected that Piquet had been asked to crash on purpose so that the safety car would emerge and the sister Renault of Fernando Alonso win the race.
"He crashed in a very strange way," TV Globo commentator Reginaldo Leme is quoted as saying.
"It struck me when I was talking recently with Felipe Massa. Felipe had gone to Briatore and said, 'This crash was not right, it happened because you wanted it to'."
Leme also said other drivers had been suspicious of the Piquet crash.
Massa had led comfortably from pole position in Singapore last September until the Alonso safety car, but when he made his pit stop he then drove away with the fuel hose still attached.
Now recovering from injury, Ferrari's Massa lost the 2008 world championship to Lewis Hamilton by a single point.
Speculation in recent days was that the source of the accusation must have been Piquet and his famous father, still furious after being recently ousted by Renault boss Briatore.
But reports this week suggest that Brazilian Massa, who drives for Ferrari, immediately suspected that Piquet had been asked to crash on purpose so that the safety car would emerge and the sister Renault of Fernando Alonso win the race.
"He crashed in a very strange way," TV Globo commentator Reginaldo Leme is quoted as saying.
"It struck me when I was talking recently with Felipe Massa. Felipe had gone to Briatore and said, 'This crash was not right, it happened because you wanted it to'."
Leme also said other drivers had been suspicious of the Piquet crash.
Massa had led comfortably from pole position in Singapore last September until the Alonso safety car, but when he made his pit stop he then drove away with the fuel hose still attached.
Now recovering from injury, Ferrari's Massa lost the 2008 world championship to Lewis Hamilton by a single point.
Renault team boss Flavio Briatore credited Rubens Barrichello with triggering the safety car in last year’s Singapore GP when questioned about Nelson Piquet’s role in the incident.
Briatore made the extraordinary comment in the immediate aftermath of last year’s race. In fact Barrichello’s Honda did slow and stop with a problem while running under the safety car, causing the yellow period to be extended.
But Flav’s assertion that he actually caused it would seem be an unusual interpretation of that day’s events, especially given the context of the current investigation.
SPEEDtv.com has revisited its interview recordings from that weekend and found the following exchange with Briatore, which took place just minutes after the race:
Q: You said you needed a miracle to win this race, and your miracle came true.
Flavio Briatore:The miracle was done by Fernando Alonso and the team, because everybody was working very hard for this result, and we are very happy.’
Q: Even Nelson Piquet chipped in. If not for his safety car, Fernando wouldn’t have been there.
FB: ‘We don’t know... No, because it was Barrichello, the safety car was out for Barrichello anyway.’
Briatore made the extraordinary comment in the immediate aftermath of last year’s race. In fact Barrichello’s Honda did slow and stop with a problem while running under the safety car, causing the yellow period to be extended.
But Flav’s assertion that he actually caused it would seem be an unusual interpretation of that day’s events, especially given the context of the current investigation.
SPEEDtv.com has revisited its interview recordings from that weekend and found the following exchange with Briatore, which took place just minutes after the race:
Q: You said you needed a miracle to win this race, and your miracle came true.
Flavio Briatore:The miracle was done by Fernando Alonso and the team, because everybody was working very hard for this result, and we are very happy.’
Q: Even Nelson Piquet chipped in. If not for his safety car, Fernando wouldn’t have been there.
FB: ‘We don’t know... No, because it was Barrichello, the safety car was out for Barrichello anyway.’
#33
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Thread Starter
The FIA has announced that representatives of ING Renault F1 have been requested to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Monday, 21 September 2009.
#35
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78446
Bizarre. OK, let's say that Symonds is being truthful about Piquet being the one to suggest that there should be an accident to help Alonso win. Then Piquet should be banned for life. However, Renault would still be complicit in the sporting fraud by knowing about the cause of the accident and not reporting it to the officials.
Race-day meeting key to Renault case
By Jonathan Noble and Michele Lostia Wednesday, September 9th 2009, 16:20 GMT
A meeting between Nelson Piquet, Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds hours before last year's Singapore Grand Prix is central to the race fixing allegations surrounding the Renault team, AUTOSPORT has learned.
With the FIA's World Motor Sport Council due to meet on September 21 for Renault to answer charges that the team caused a deliberate crash in Singapore last year to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed for the first time background details of the case.
AUTOSPORT understands that key to what happened in the race is the discussion that took place in one of Renault's offices at the Singapore track on the Sunday, where race tactics were discussed between Piquet, team principal Briatore and director of engineering Symonds.
Sources claim that in evidence submitted to the FIA by Nelson Piquet, the Brazilian driver says he was asked by Briatore and Symonds to crash deliberately early in the race so as to help Alonso win.
Piquet says that he agreed to do so because he felt uncomfortable about his situation at the team, with Renault having not renewed his contract for 2009 at that time - and Briatore was stalling on making a firm commitment. Piquet suggests that he only went ahead and caused the accident because he felt he would be rewarded for his actions.
In his evidence, Piquet claims that he was taken aside by Symonds after the first meeting and instructured that he should crash on lap 13 or 14, shortly after Alonso's scheduled first stop, at Turn 17.
The reason this part of the track was singled out was because there were no cranes present there to lift the car away, so any accident would virtually guarantee a safety car.
Piquet's claims have, however, been denied by both Briatore and Symonds in documents that are believed to have been submitted with the FIA. Although they confirm that the meeting between the three of them took place, both suggest that it was Piquet's own suggestion to cause an accident.
Sources claim that the Singapore race-fix matter came to light on July 26 - the day of Piquet's last race for Renault in Hungary - when his father Nelson contacted FIA president Max Mosley to make him aware of what had happened.
Piquet Jr. then visited the FIA's headquarters in Paris on July 30 to present a statement to FIA representatives, believed to be stewards' advisor Alan Donnelly, and external investigators from the Quest agency.
Following Piquet's testimony, the three stewards from the Singapore Grand Prix, plus two external investigators from Quest, were flown to the Belgian Grand Prix to conduct interviews with Renault representatives.
A report in Italian magazine Autosprint also suggests that telemetry data from Piquet's car has emerged as another reason why the matter has gone to the WMSC.
At Turn 17 where Piquet crashed, normally the rear wheels of the Renault would lose grip on the exit - requiring the driver to ease off the throttle briefly. However, on the lap he crashed, Piquet kept accelerating even though the rear wheels had lost grip.
Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family.
"I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about. I also remember that Piquet at Singapore was in a very fragile state of mind. Besides that, there are the audio recordings where I express disappointment when I see on the screens that Piquet had crashed."
Symonds is also reported as saying: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation."
Renault has said it will not comment on the matter officially before the WMSC hearing later this month.
By Jonathan Noble and Michele Lostia Wednesday, September 9th 2009, 16:20 GMT
A meeting between Nelson Piquet, Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds hours before last year's Singapore Grand Prix is central to the race fixing allegations surrounding the Renault team, AUTOSPORT has learned.
With the FIA's World Motor Sport Council due to meet on September 21 for Renault to answer charges that the team caused a deliberate crash in Singapore last year to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed for the first time background details of the case.
AUTOSPORT understands that key to what happened in the race is the discussion that took place in one of Renault's offices at the Singapore track on the Sunday, where race tactics were discussed between Piquet, team principal Briatore and director of engineering Symonds.
Sources claim that in evidence submitted to the FIA by Nelson Piquet, the Brazilian driver says he was asked by Briatore and Symonds to crash deliberately early in the race so as to help Alonso win.
Piquet says that he agreed to do so because he felt uncomfortable about his situation at the team, with Renault having not renewed his contract for 2009 at that time - and Briatore was stalling on making a firm commitment. Piquet suggests that he only went ahead and caused the accident because he felt he would be rewarded for his actions.
In his evidence, Piquet claims that he was taken aside by Symonds after the first meeting and instructured that he should crash on lap 13 or 14, shortly after Alonso's scheduled first stop, at Turn 17.
The reason this part of the track was singled out was because there were no cranes present there to lift the car away, so any accident would virtually guarantee a safety car.
Piquet's claims have, however, been denied by both Briatore and Symonds in documents that are believed to have been submitted with the FIA. Although they confirm that the meeting between the three of them took place, both suggest that it was Piquet's own suggestion to cause an accident.
Sources claim that the Singapore race-fix matter came to light on July 26 - the day of Piquet's last race for Renault in Hungary - when his father Nelson contacted FIA president Max Mosley to make him aware of what had happened.
Piquet Jr. then visited the FIA's headquarters in Paris on July 30 to present a statement to FIA representatives, believed to be stewards' advisor Alan Donnelly, and external investigators from the Quest agency.
Following Piquet's testimony, the three stewards from the Singapore Grand Prix, plus two external investigators from Quest, were flown to the Belgian Grand Prix to conduct interviews with Renault representatives.
A report in Italian magazine Autosprint also suggests that telemetry data from Piquet's car has emerged as another reason why the matter has gone to the WMSC.
At Turn 17 where Piquet crashed, normally the rear wheels of the Renault would lose grip on the exit - requiring the driver to ease off the throttle briefly. However, on the lap he crashed, Piquet kept accelerating even though the rear wheels had lost grip.
Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family.
"I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about. I also remember that Piquet at Singapore was in a very fragile state of mind. Besides that, there are the audio recordings where I express disappointment when I see on the screens that Piquet had crashed."
Symonds is also reported as saying: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation."
Renault has said it will not comment on the matter officially before the WMSC hearing later this month.
#36
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Renault should not escape some measure of punishment for being aware Piquet may have caused his own demise. It's interesting because now there is no doubt seemingly, the SC was brought out intentionally either by Piquet or Renault. I feel badly for Massa-he likely would have won the WC last year. How do you think the Brazilians who stood behind him are going to react to this news? Piquet Sr's business could take a hit.
#37
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21798.html
Nelson Piquet's FIA statement revealed
The legal statement made to the FIA by Nelson Piquet Jr has been leaked to the F1SA website. It is not clear how this has happened but we believe that the World Council dossier has been sent out and the leak must come from one of the members.
The statement made is as follows:
I, Nelson Angelo Piquet, born July 25, 1985 in Heidelberg, Germany... say as follows:
1. Except as otherwise stated, the facts and statements contained in this Statement are based on facts and matters within my knowledge. I believe such facts and statements contained in this Statement to be true and correct. Where any facts or statements are not within my own knowledge, they are true to the best of my knowledge and belief and, where appropriate, I indicate the source of that knowledge and belief.
2. I make this Statement voluntarily to the FIA and for the purposes of allowing the FIA to exercise its supervisory and regulatory functions with regard to the FIA Formula One World Championship.
3. I am aware that there is a duty upon all participants in the FIA Formula One World Championship and all Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Championship and I am aware that serious consequences could follow if I were to provide the FIA with any false or misleading statement.
4. I understand that my complete statement has been recorded on audio tape and that a full transcript of my audio recording will be made available to me and the FIA. The present document constitutes a summary of the main points made during my full oral statement.
5. I wish to bring the following facts to the FIA's attention.
6. During the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore, held on 28 September 2008 and counting towards the 2008 FIA Formula One World Championship, I was asked by Mr. Flavio Briatore, who is both my manager and the Team Principal of the ING Renault F1 Team, and by Mr. Pat Symonds, the Technical Director of the Renault F1 Team, to deliberately crash my car in order to positively influence the performance of the ING Renault F1 Team at the event in question. I agreed to this proposal and caused my car to hit a wall and crash during lap thirteen/fourteen of the race.
7. The proposal to deliberately cause an accident was made to me shortly before the race took place, when I was summoned by Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds in Mr. Briatore's office. Mr. Symonds, in the presence of Mr. Briatore, asked me if I would be willing to sacrifice my race for the team by "causing a safety car". Every F1 race driver knows that the safety car is deployed on a track when there is an accident which leads to the track being blocked either by debris or a stationary car, and where it is difficult to recover a damaged car, as was the case here.
8. At the time of this conversation I was in a very fragile and emotional state of mind. This state of mind was brought about by intense stress due to the fact that Mr. Briatore had refused to inform me of whether or not my driver's contract would be renewed for the next racing year (2009), as is customarily the case in the middle of the year (around July or August). Instead, Mr. Briatore repeatedly requested me to sign an "option", which meant that I was not allowed to negotiate with any other teams in the meantime. He would repeatedly put pressure on me to prolong the option I had signed, and would regularly summon me into his office to discuss these renewals, even on racing days - a moment which should be a moment of concentration and relaxation before the race. This stress was accentuated by the fact that during the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore I had qualified sixteenth on the grid, so I was very insecure about my future at the Renault team. When I was asked to crash my car and cause a safety car incident in order to help the team, I accepted because I hoped that it could improve my position within the team at this critical time in the race season. At no point was I told by anyone that by agreeing to cause an incident, I would be guaranteed a renewal of my contract or any other advantage. However, in the context, I thought that it would be helpful in achieving this goal. I therefore agreed to cause the incident.
9. After the meeting with Mr. Symonds and Mr. Briatore, Mr. Symonds took me aside to a quiet corner and, using a map, pointed me to the exact corner of the track where I should crash. This corner was selected because the specific location of the track did not have any cranes that would allow a damaged car to be swiftly lifted off the track, nor did it have any side entrances to the track, which would allow a Safety Marshall to quickly move the damaged car away from the track. Therefore, it was felt that a crash in this specific position would be nearly certain to cause an obstruction on the track which would thus necessitate the deployment of a safety car in order to allow the track to be cleared and to ensure the safe continuation of the race.
10. Mr. Symonds also told me which exact lap to cause the incident upon, so that a strategy could deployed for my team-mate Mr. Fernando Alonso to refuel at the pit shortly before the deployment of the safety car, which he indeed did during lap twelve. The key to this strategy resided in the fact that the near-knowledge that the safety car would be deployed in lap thirteen/fourteen allowed the Team to start Mr. Alonso's car with an aggressive fuel strategy using a light car containing enough fuel to arrive at lap twelve, but not much more. This would allow Mr. Alonso to overtake as many (heavier) cars as possible, knowing that those cars would have difficulty catching up with him later in the race due to the later deployment of the safety car. This strategy was successful and Mr. Alonso won the 2008 Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore.
11. During these discussions, no mention was made of any concerns with respect to the security implications of this strategy, either for myself, the public or other drivers. The only comment made in this context was one by Mr. Pat Symonds who warned me to “be careful”, which I took to mean that I should not injure myself.
12. I intentionally caused the crash by letting go of control of the car just before the relevant corner. In order to make sure I would cause the incident during the correct lap, I asked my team several times via the radio to confirm the lap number, which I would not normally do. I was not injured during the accident, nor was anyone else.
13. After the discussions with Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds discussed above, the 'accident strategy' was never discussed again with either of them. Mr. Briatore discreetly said "thank you" after the end of the race, without mentioning anything further. I do not know if anyone else was aware of this strategy at the start of the race.
14. After the race I informed Mr. Felipe Vargas, a family friend and advisor, of the fact that the incident had been deliberate. Mr. Vargas further infirmed my father, Mr. Nelson Piquet, some time later.
15. After the race several journalists asked questions about the accident and asked me whether I had caused it on purpose, because they felt it was 'suspicious'.
16. In my own team, the engineer of my car questioned the nature of the incident because he found it unusual, and I replied that I had lost control of the car. I believe that a clever engineer would notice from the car's telemetry that I caused the incident on purpose as I continued accelerating, whereas a "normal" reaction would be to brake as soon as possible.
Statement of Truth
I believe and swear that the facts set out in this statement are true.
This statement was made at the FIA Headquarters in Paris on 30 July 2009 in presence of Mr. Alan Donnelly (FIA Chairman of the Stewards), Mr. Martin Smith and Mr. Jacob Marsh (both of investigations firm Quest, retained by the FIA to assist with its investigation). Notes were taken by Ms. Domenique Costesec (Sidley Austin LLP).
Signed:
Nelson Piquet Jr.
The legal statement made to the FIA by Nelson Piquet Jr has been leaked to the F1SA website. It is not clear how this has happened but we believe that the World Council dossier has been sent out and the leak must come from one of the members.
The statement made is as follows:
I, Nelson Angelo Piquet, born July 25, 1985 in Heidelberg, Germany... say as follows:
1. Except as otherwise stated, the facts and statements contained in this Statement are based on facts and matters within my knowledge. I believe such facts and statements contained in this Statement to be true and correct. Where any facts or statements are not within my own knowledge, they are true to the best of my knowledge and belief and, where appropriate, I indicate the source of that knowledge and belief.
2. I make this Statement voluntarily to the FIA and for the purposes of allowing the FIA to exercise its supervisory and regulatory functions with regard to the FIA Formula One World Championship.
3. I am aware that there is a duty upon all participants in the FIA Formula One World Championship and all Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Championship and I am aware that serious consequences could follow if I were to provide the FIA with any false or misleading statement.
4. I understand that my complete statement has been recorded on audio tape and that a full transcript of my audio recording will be made available to me and the FIA. The present document constitutes a summary of the main points made during my full oral statement.
5. I wish to bring the following facts to the FIA's attention.
6. During the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore, held on 28 September 2008 and counting towards the 2008 FIA Formula One World Championship, I was asked by Mr. Flavio Briatore, who is both my manager and the Team Principal of the ING Renault F1 Team, and by Mr. Pat Symonds, the Technical Director of the Renault F1 Team, to deliberately crash my car in order to positively influence the performance of the ING Renault F1 Team at the event in question. I agreed to this proposal and caused my car to hit a wall and crash during lap thirteen/fourteen of the race.
7. The proposal to deliberately cause an accident was made to me shortly before the race took place, when I was summoned by Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds in Mr. Briatore's office. Mr. Symonds, in the presence of Mr. Briatore, asked me if I would be willing to sacrifice my race for the team by "causing a safety car". Every F1 race driver knows that the safety car is deployed on a track when there is an accident which leads to the track being blocked either by debris or a stationary car, and where it is difficult to recover a damaged car, as was the case here.
8. At the time of this conversation I was in a very fragile and emotional state of mind. This state of mind was brought about by intense stress due to the fact that Mr. Briatore had refused to inform me of whether or not my driver's contract would be renewed for the next racing year (2009), as is customarily the case in the middle of the year (around July or August). Instead, Mr. Briatore repeatedly requested me to sign an "option", which meant that I was not allowed to negotiate with any other teams in the meantime. He would repeatedly put pressure on me to prolong the option I had signed, and would regularly summon me into his office to discuss these renewals, even on racing days - a moment which should be a moment of concentration and relaxation before the race. This stress was accentuated by the fact that during the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore I had qualified sixteenth on the grid, so I was very insecure about my future at the Renault team. When I was asked to crash my car and cause a safety car incident in order to help the team, I accepted because I hoped that it could improve my position within the team at this critical time in the race season. At no point was I told by anyone that by agreeing to cause an incident, I would be guaranteed a renewal of my contract or any other advantage. However, in the context, I thought that it would be helpful in achieving this goal. I therefore agreed to cause the incident.
9. After the meeting with Mr. Symonds and Mr. Briatore, Mr. Symonds took me aside to a quiet corner and, using a map, pointed me to the exact corner of the track where I should crash. This corner was selected because the specific location of the track did not have any cranes that would allow a damaged car to be swiftly lifted off the track, nor did it have any side entrances to the track, which would allow a Safety Marshall to quickly move the damaged car away from the track. Therefore, it was felt that a crash in this specific position would be nearly certain to cause an obstruction on the track which would thus necessitate the deployment of a safety car in order to allow the track to be cleared and to ensure the safe continuation of the race.
10. Mr. Symonds also told me which exact lap to cause the incident upon, so that a strategy could deployed for my team-mate Mr. Fernando Alonso to refuel at the pit shortly before the deployment of the safety car, which he indeed did during lap twelve. The key to this strategy resided in the fact that the near-knowledge that the safety car would be deployed in lap thirteen/fourteen allowed the Team to start Mr. Alonso's car with an aggressive fuel strategy using a light car containing enough fuel to arrive at lap twelve, but not much more. This would allow Mr. Alonso to overtake as many (heavier) cars as possible, knowing that those cars would have difficulty catching up with him later in the race due to the later deployment of the safety car. This strategy was successful and Mr. Alonso won the 2008 Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore.
11. During these discussions, no mention was made of any concerns with respect to the security implications of this strategy, either for myself, the public or other drivers. The only comment made in this context was one by Mr. Pat Symonds who warned me to “be careful”, which I took to mean that I should not injure myself.
12. I intentionally caused the crash by letting go of control of the car just before the relevant corner. In order to make sure I would cause the incident during the correct lap, I asked my team several times via the radio to confirm the lap number, which I would not normally do. I was not injured during the accident, nor was anyone else.
13. After the discussions with Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds discussed above, the 'accident strategy' was never discussed again with either of them. Mr. Briatore discreetly said "thank you" after the end of the race, without mentioning anything further. I do not know if anyone else was aware of this strategy at the start of the race.
14. After the race I informed Mr. Felipe Vargas, a family friend and advisor, of the fact that the incident had been deliberate. Mr. Vargas further infirmed my father, Mr. Nelson Piquet, some time later.
15. After the race several journalists asked questions about the accident and asked me whether I had caused it on purpose, because they felt it was 'suspicious'.
16. In my own team, the engineer of my car questioned the nature of the incident because he found it unusual, and I replied that I had lost control of the car. I believe that a clever engineer would notice from the car's telemetry that I caused the incident on purpose as I continued accelerating, whereas a "normal" reaction would be to brake as soon as possible.
Statement of Truth
I believe and swear that the facts set out in this statement are true.
This statement was made at the FIA Headquarters in Paris on 30 July 2009 in presence of Mr. Alan Donnelly (FIA Chairman of the Stewards), Mr. Martin Smith and Mr. Jacob Marsh (both of investigations firm Quest, retained by the FIA to assist with its investigation). Notes were taken by Ms. Domenique Costesec (Sidley Austin LLP).
Signed:
Nelson Piquet Jr.
#38
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Flavio fights back!
Renault begins Piquets criminal action
By Pablo Elizalde Friday, September 11th 2009, 10:21 GMT
The Renault team and its boss Flavio Briatore have begun criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet Junior and Nelson Piquet Senior following an alleged attempt "to blackmail" the French squad.
Renault is facing allegations of race-fixing after Piquet Jr told the FIA saying he had been asked to crash during the Singapore Grand Prix in order to benefit team-mate Fernando Alonso.
Briatore denied the accusations as "outrageous lies" and threatened with legal action, a threat that materialised on Friday, when Renault announced it had begun criminal proceedings against Piquet and his father.
"The FIA has announced that it is to hold an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council ('WMSC') on 21 September 2009," said Renault in a statement.
"The ING Renault F1 Team is to attend that meeting and answer allegations that members of the team conspired with Nelson Piquet Jnr to cause a deliberate accident at the 2008 Singapore GP, so that Fernando Alonso might benefit from the resulting safety car.
"The ING Renault F1 Team had not commented publicly during the FIA's initial investigation into this matter.
"However, today the ING Renault F1 Team and its Managing Director Flavio Briatore personally, wish to state that they have commenced criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet Junior and Nelson Piquet Senior in France concerning the making of false allegations and a related attempt to blackmail the team into allowing Mr Piquet Jnr to drive for the remainder of the 2009 season.
"The matter will also be referred to the Police in the UK."
By Pablo Elizalde Friday, September 11th 2009, 10:21 GMT
The Renault team and its boss Flavio Briatore have begun criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet Junior and Nelson Piquet Senior following an alleged attempt "to blackmail" the French squad.
Renault is facing allegations of race-fixing after Piquet Jr told the FIA saying he had been asked to crash during the Singapore Grand Prix in order to benefit team-mate Fernando Alonso.
Briatore denied the accusations as "outrageous lies" and threatened with legal action, a threat that materialised on Friday, when Renault announced it had begun criminal proceedings against Piquet and his father.
"The FIA has announced that it is to hold an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council ('WMSC') on 21 September 2009," said Renault in a statement.
"The ING Renault F1 Team is to attend that meeting and answer allegations that members of the team conspired with Nelson Piquet Jnr to cause a deliberate accident at the 2008 Singapore GP, so that Fernando Alonso might benefit from the resulting safety car.
"The ING Renault F1 Team had not commented publicly during the FIA's initial investigation into this matter.
"However, today the ING Renault F1 Team and its Managing Director Flavio Briatore personally, wish to state that they have commenced criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet Junior and Nelson Piquet Senior in France concerning the making of false allegations and a related attempt to blackmail the team into allowing Mr Piquet Jnr to drive for the remainder of the 2009 season.
"The matter will also be referred to the Police in the UK."
#39
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Seems to me like Renault will be found guilty, I do remember when Piquet went off and it looked like he completely forgot what he was doing as far as the race goes. The sport takes yet another turn for the worse.
#40
AZ Community Team
Flavio is a cad and a sham at best, yes a brilliant team leader but also a sleeze. Surprised that Pat Symonds was involved with this.
I remember during the race that Derek Bell made the comment a couple times about how well the accident working into Alonso's strategy. Bell didn't accuse Renault of anything but said that losing the car in that corner was not a common place to crash into the wall.
I remember during the race that Derek Bell made the comment a couple times about how well the accident working into Alonso's strategy. Bell didn't accuse Renault of anything but said that losing the car in that corner was not a common place to crash into the wall.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 09-11-2009 at 09:10 AM.