Formula One: 2011 Season News and Discussion Thread **Abu Dhabi GP (page 8)**
#161
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Mercedes quantifies downforce loss for trailing car
Thought this was interesting:
Q: Can you quantify the impact of running in another car's wake?
A: Yes. Downforce levels are monitored by the car's on-board sensors and the closer you get to the car in front, the bigger the loss in downforce. This loss occurs across the whole car, but is more pronounced at the front, hence the tendency for the following car to understeer. The loss begins to occur when the gap between the cars is 3.5s. When one second behind, the chasing car loses approximately 7 percent of total downforce; when 0.5s behind, this rises to around 12 percent.
I never would've guessed a car 3.5 seconds back would be affected at all. I wonder what the loss is when the trailing car is a tenth back?
Q: Can you quantify the impact of running in another car's wake?
A: Yes. Downforce levels are monitored by the car's on-board sensors and the closer you get to the car in front, the bigger the loss in downforce. This loss occurs across the whole car, but is more pronounced at the front, hence the tendency for the following car to understeer. The loss begins to occur when the gap between the cars is 3.5s. When one second behind, the chasing car loses approximately 7 percent of total downforce; when 0.5s behind, this rises to around 12 percent.
I never would've guessed a car 3.5 seconds back would be affected at all. I wonder what the loss is when the trailing car is a tenth back?
#162
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#163
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#164
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#165
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Practice 1:
Times
01. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m25.142s 27 laps
02. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m26.149s + 1.007 20 laps
03. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m26.379s + 1.237 29 laps
04. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m26.480s + 1.338 27 laps
05. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m26.738s + 1.596 26 laps
06. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m26.988s + 1.846 19 laps
07. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m27.016s + 1.874 32 laps
08. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m27.132s + 1.990 21 laps
09. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m27.138s + 1.996 22 laps
10. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m27.212s + 2.070 20 laps
11. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m27.241s + 2.099 22 laps
12. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m27.471s + 2.329 23 laps
13. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m28.005s + 2.863 11 laps
14. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m28.027s + 2.885 26 laps
15. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m28.163s + 3.021 22 laps
16. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m28.654s + 3.512 28 laps
17. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m28.819s + 3.677 23 laps
18. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m28.995s + 3.853 9 laps
19. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m29.231s + 4.089 21 laps
20. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m30.896s + 5.754 18 laps
21. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m31.235s + 6.093 24 laps
22. Tonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1m31.268s + 6.126 23 laps
23. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m31.418s + 6.276 12 laps
24. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m32.106s + 6.964 25 laps
Times
01. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m25.142s 27 laps
02. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m26.149s + 1.007 20 laps
03. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m26.379s + 1.237 29 laps
04. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m26.480s + 1.338 27 laps
05. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m26.738s + 1.596 26 laps
06. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m26.988s + 1.846 19 laps
07. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m27.016s + 1.874 32 laps
08. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m27.132s + 1.990 21 laps
09. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m27.138s + 1.996 22 laps
10. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m27.212s + 2.070 20 laps
11. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m27.241s + 2.099 22 laps
12. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m27.471s + 2.329 23 laps
13. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m28.005s + 2.863 11 laps
14. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m28.027s + 2.885 26 laps
15. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m28.163s + 3.021 22 laps
16. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m28.654s + 3.512 28 laps
17. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m28.819s + 3.677 23 laps
18. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m28.995s + 3.853 9 laps
19. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m29.231s + 4.089 21 laps
20. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m30.896s + 5.754 18 laps
21. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m31.235s + 6.093 24 laps
22. Tonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1m31.268s + 6.126 23 laps
23. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m31.418s + 6.276 12 laps
24. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m32.106s + 6.964 25 laps
#166
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Practice 2:
Times
01. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m22.470s 35 laps
02. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m22.509s + 0.039 27 laps
03. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m22.826s + 0.356 37 laps
04. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m23.188s + 0.718 32 laps
05. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m23.568s + 1.098 34 laps
06. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m23.586s + 1.116 35 laps
07. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m23.981s + 1.511 30 laps
08. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m24.278s + 1.808 30 laps
09. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m24.290s + 1.820 33 laps
10. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m24.366s + 1.896 31 laps
11. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m24.483s + 2.013 38 laps
12. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m24.786s + 2.316 43 laps
13. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m25.296s + 2.826 33 laps
14. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m25.303s + 2.833 38 laps
15. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m25.457s + 2.987 34 laps
16. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m25.603s + 3.133 43 laps
17. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m26.073s + 3.603 32 laps
18. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m26.417s + 3.947 37 laps
19. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m27.123s + 4.653 20 laps
20. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m27.189s + 4.719 34 laps
21. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m28.036s + 5.566 36 laps
22. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m28.062s + 5.592 28 laps
23. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m29.469s + 6.999 28 laps
24. Tonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1m29.476s + 7.006 31 laps
Times
01. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m22.470s 35 laps
02. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m22.509s + 0.039 27 laps
03. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m22.826s + 0.356 37 laps
04. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m23.188s + 0.718 32 laps
05. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m23.568s + 1.098 34 laps
06. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m23.586s + 1.116 35 laps
07. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m23.981s + 1.511 30 laps
08. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m24.278s + 1.808 30 laps
09. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m24.290s + 1.820 33 laps
10. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m24.366s + 1.896 31 laps
11. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m24.483s + 2.013 38 laps
12. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m24.786s + 2.316 43 laps
13. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m25.296s + 2.826 33 laps
14. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m25.303s + 2.833 38 laps
15. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m25.457s + 2.987 34 laps
16. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m25.603s + 3.133 43 laps
17. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m26.073s + 3.603 32 laps
18. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m26.417s + 3.947 37 laps
19. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m27.123s + 4.653 20 laps
20. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m27.189s + 4.719 34 laps
21. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m28.036s + 5.566 36 laps
22. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m28.062s + 5.592 28 laps
23. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m29.469s + 6.999 28 laps
24. Tonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1m29.476s + 7.006 31 laps
#167
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#168
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Ferrari Radio: Let me just say that it was a really really really good lap Fernando. Oh, by the way, you qualified fourth.
Alonso: Wooohooo!
Alonso: Wooohooo!
#169
Suzuka Master
Thought this was interesting:
Q: Can you quantify the impact of running in another car's wake?
A: Yes. Downforce levels are monitored by the car's on-board sensors and the closer you get to the car in front, the bigger the loss in downforce. This loss occurs across the whole car, but is more pronounced at the front, hence the tendency for the following car to understeer. The loss begins to occur when the gap between the cars is 3.5s. When one second behind, the chasing car loses approximately 7 percent of total downforce; when 0.5s behind, this rises to around 12 percent.
I never would've guessed a car 3.5 seconds back would be affected at all. I wonder what the loss is when the trailing car is a tenth back?
Q: Can you quantify the impact of running in another car's wake?
A: Yes. Downforce levels are monitored by the car's on-board sensors and the closer you get to the car in front, the bigger the loss in downforce. This loss occurs across the whole car, but is more pronounced at the front, hence the tendency for the following car to understeer. The loss begins to occur when the gap between the cars is 3.5s. When one second behind, the chasing car loses approximately 7 percent of total downforce; when 0.5s behind, this rises to around 12 percent.
I never would've guessed a car 3.5 seconds back would be affected at all. I wonder what the loss is when the trailing car is a tenth back?
#170
Suzuka Master
and this is the first quali i missed this season , better not miss the race!
#172
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It's impossible to figure out the order nowadays
#173
Suzuka Master
why do my pics look so great after qualifying, but once the race comes, it just turns all bad!!
great race!!
great race!!
#174
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Monaco Practice 1
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault 1:16.619
2. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari 1:16.732
3. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes GP 1:17.139
4. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:17.316
5. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.350
6. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.534
7. Pastor Maldonado Venezuela Williams-Cosworth 1:18.527
8. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Mercedes 1:18.578
9. Vitaly Petrov Russia Renault 1:19.733
10. Michael Schumacher Germany Mercedes GP 1:18.805
11. Nick Heidfeld Germany Renault 1:18.928
12. Sebastien Buemi Switzerland Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:19.234
13. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Williams-Cosworth 1:19.395
14. Daniel Ricciardo Australia Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:19.463
15. Kamui Kobayashi Japan Sauber-Ferrari 1:19.768
16. Sergio Perez Mexico Sauber-Ferrari 1:19.792
17. Heikki Kovalainen Finland Lotus-Renault 1:20.083
18. Jarno Trulli Italy Lotus-Renault 1:21.116
19. Paul di Resta Britain Force India-Mercedes 1:21.548
20. Jerome d'Ambrosio Belgium Virgin-Cosworth 1:21.758
21. Timo Glock Germany Virgin-Cosworth 1:21.815
22. Vitantonio Liuzzi Italy HRT-Cosworth 1:22.840
23. Narain Karthikeyan India HRT-Cosworth 1:23.885
24. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault No Time
1. Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault 1:16.619
2. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari 1:16.732
3. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes GP 1:17.139
4. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:17.316
5. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.350
6. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.534
7. Pastor Maldonado Venezuela Williams-Cosworth 1:18.527
8. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Mercedes 1:18.578
9. Vitaly Petrov Russia Renault 1:19.733
10. Michael Schumacher Germany Mercedes GP 1:18.805
11. Nick Heidfeld Germany Renault 1:18.928
12. Sebastien Buemi Switzerland Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:19.234
13. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Williams-Cosworth 1:19.395
14. Daniel Ricciardo Australia Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:19.463
15. Kamui Kobayashi Japan Sauber-Ferrari 1:19.768
16. Sergio Perez Mexico Sauber-Ferrari 1:19.792
17. Heikki Kovalainen Finland Lotus-Renault 1:20.083
18. Jarno Trulli Italy Lotus-Renault 1:21.116
19. Paul di Resta Britain Force India-Mercedes 1:21.548
20. Jerome d'Ambrosio Belgium Virgin-Cosworth 1:21.758
21. Timo Glock Germany Virgin-Cosworth 1:21.815
22. Vitantonio Liuzzi Italy HRT-Cosworth 1:22.840
23. Narain Karthikeyan India HRT-Cosworth 1:23.885
24. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault No Time
#175
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Monaco Practice 2
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari 1:15.123
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.228
3. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes GP 1:15.321
4. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.448
5. Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault 1:15.667
6. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:15.781
7. Michael Schumacher Germany Mercedes GP 1:16.356
8. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:16.642
9. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Mercedes 1:17.101
10. Nick Heidfeld Germany Renault 1:17.126
11. Vitaly Petrov Russia Renault 1:17.337
12. Sergio Perez Mexico Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.541
13. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Williams-Cosworth 1:17.570
14. Sebastien Buemi Switzerland Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:17.581
15. Pastor Maldonado Venezuela Williams-Cosworth 1:17.633
16. Kamui Kobayashi Japan Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.706
17. Jaime Alguersuari Spain Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:17.789
18. Heikki Kovalainen Finland Lotus-Renault 1:18.266
19. Jarno Trulli Italy Lotus-Renault 1:18.490
20. Paul di Resta Britain Force India-Mercedes 1:19.053
21. Jerome d'Ambrosio Belgium Virgin-Cosworth 1:19.185
22. Timo Glock Germany Virgin-Cosworth 1:19.338
23. Narain Karthikeyan India HRT-Cosworth 1:22.066
24. Vitantonio Liuzzi Italy HRT-Cosworth No Time
1. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari 1:15.123
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.228
3. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes GP 1:15.321
4. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.448
5. Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault 1:15.667
6. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:15.781
7. Michael Schumacher Germany Mercedes GP 1:16.356
8. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:16.642
9. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Mercedes 1:17.101
10. Nick Heidfeld Germany Renault 1:17.126
11. Vitaly Petrov Russia Renault 1:17.337
12. Sergio Perez Mexico Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.541
13. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Williams-Cosworth 1:17.570
14. Sebastien Buemi Switzerland Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:17.581
15. Pastor Maldonado Venezuela Williams-Cosworth 1:17.633
16. Kamui Kobayashi Japan Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.706
17. Jaime Alguersuari Spain Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:17.789
18. Heikki Kovalainen Finland Lotus-Renault 1:18.266
19. Jarno Trulli Italy Lotus-Renault 1:18.490
20. Paul di Resta Britain Force India-Mercedes 1:19.053
21. Jerome d'Ambrosio Belgium Virgin-Cosworth 1:19.185
22. Timo Glock Germany Virgin-Cosworth 1:19.338
23. Narain Karthikeyan India HRT-Cosworth 1:22.066
24. Vitantonio Liuzzi Italy HRT-Cosworth No Time
#176
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Former Renault Formula 1 boss Flavio Briatore has voiced his suspicions that Red Bull duo Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel may not be getting equal treatment this year. Briatore, who is Webber's manager, believes that the larger than normal gap between the two drivers at Red Bull during the opening races of this season has raised his concerns. "I hope Red Bull is a team big enough to guarantee two equal cars for its drivers, but each time something happens, it happens to Mark," Briatore was quoted as saying by Gazzetta dello Sport. "I understand you need some luck, but if the same number comes up over and over again, it means there's a magnet under the roulette [wheel]. I'm not casting doubts over [Red Bull team principal Christian] Horner's intellectual honesty, but what's happening sounds strange. "It would be nice for F1 to have Webber do well too, because he would be Vettel's only true challenger, and he would get the support from 90 per cent of the fans. It would be a nice duel like in [Ayrton] Senna's and [Alain] Prost's time, but back then they had equal cars, while the two Red Bulls instead may be equal only in their colours." Red Bull Racing has long denied any suggestion of favouritism towards Vettel, and in the last event in Spain it was the German's KERS that failed in qualifying.rT
#177
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Race card?
I LOVE IT WHEN THE RACE CARD IS PLAYED
Lewis Hamilton has "made peace" with the Monaco stewards after launching a blistering attack against them in the wake of a penalty-hit race.
Hamilton received two drive-through penalties relating to separate incidents with Ferrari's Felipe Massa and Pastor Maldonado in his Williams.
Immediately after the race, after a visit to the stewards regarding the crash with Maldonado, Hamilton vented his emotions as he said: "It's an absolute frickin' joke.
"I've been to see the stewards five times out of six this season."
Asked as to why he felt the stewards, with British sportscar driver Allan McNish on the four-man panel, were picking on him, Hamilton retorted: "Maybe it's because I'm black."
Lewis Hamilton has "made peace" with the Monaco stewards after launching a blistering attack against them in the wake of a penalty-hit race.
Hamilton received two drive-through penalties relating to separate incidents with Ferrari's Felipe Massa and Pastor Maldonado in his Williams.
Immediately after the race, after a visit to the stewards regarding the crash with Maldonado, Hamilton vented his emotions as he said: "It's an absolute frickin' joke.
"I've been to see the stewards five times out of six this season."
Asked as to why he felt the stewards, with British sportscar driver Allan McNish on the four-man panel, were picking on him, Hamilton retorted: "Maybe it's because I'm black."
#179
Suzuka Master
wait he had two drive thru penalties?
#180
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1 drive thru and and 20 seconds added to his aggregate racetime which did not lose him any positions.
#181
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At least I know I'm in good company
In my thoughts about the red flag tire change being allowed. What was the point of continuing the race (well beyond the 2 hour limit I might add)
Pirelli motorsport boss Paul Hembrey has questioned the F1 rule that allows drivers to change tyres under red flag stoppages.
F1 fans were robbed of a thrilling end to Sunday's Monaco GP when Sebastian Vettel was permitted to swap his aging rubber for fresh tyres just six laps from the end of the race.
The German was tenths ahead of Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button, who were on newer tyres, when Vitaly Petrov crashed, resulting in race control red flagging the grand prix.
The stoppage allowed Vettel to put on fresh tyres and, when the race restarted, he was able to comfortably keep his rivals at bay, taking his fifth victory of the season.
"I can understand there is a safety consideration but I am thinking about it more from a fans' perspective to be honest," Hembery told Autosport.
"I've had a lot of people shout at me from the boats around the harbour and say, why were they allowed to change?
"It took away something from the race - and the big question was could they have lasted? That is what we were all asking with six laps to go and that was going to be the excitement: would Sebastian hit the (tyre degradation) cliff?
"We don't really understand the rule, and maybe we need to ask the teams why they think the should be allowed to change tyres.
"The race distance was still the race distance, it wasn't extended. The cars had stopped and there had been a safety car anyway. I don't really understand why they are allowed to change tyres, but maybe I am missing something."
The Pirelli motorsport boss added that it was a "shame" as up until then the leading trio being on different strategies had made for an exciting Monaco GP.
"Overtaking is at a premium here, so having the strategic element and such varied strategies, one, two or three stops, gave it an extra bit of intrigue," he said.
"I think it was a bit of a shame with the red flag of course, because if they hadn't changed the tyres, then they would have had to fight to the end as they were all on different strategies, and the tyre wear and life was very different.
"It is such a shame we were not able to see the finale of the strategy game that had been played."
Pirelli motorsport boss Paul Hembrey has questioned the F1 rule that allows drivers to change tyres under red flag stoppages.
F1 fans were robbed of a thrilling end to Sunday's Monaco GP when Sebastian Vettel was permitted to swap his aging rubber for fresh tyres just six laps from the end of the race.
The German was tenths ahead of Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button, who were on newer tyres, when Vitaly Petrov crashed, resulting in race control red flagging the grand prix.
The stoppage allowed Vettel to put on fresh tyres and, when the race restarted, he was able to comfortably keep his rivals at bay, taking his fifth victory of the season.
"I can understand there is a safety consideration but I am thinking about it more from a fans' perspective to be honest," Hembery told Autosport.
"I've had a lot of people shout at me from the boats around the harbour and say, why were they allowed to change?
"It took away something from the race - and the big question was could they have lasted? That is what we were all asking with six laps to go and that was going to be the excitement: would Sebastian hit the (tyre degradation) cliff?
"We don't really understand the rule, and maybe we need to ask the teams why they think the should be allowed to change tyres.
"The race distance was still the race distance, it wasn't extended. The cars had stopped and there had been a safety car anyway. I don't really understand why they are allowed to change tyres, but maybe I am missing something."
The Pirelli motorsport boss added that it was a "shame" as up until then the leading trio being on different strategies had made for an exciting Monaco GP.
"Overtaking is at a premium here, so having the strategic element and such varied strategies, one, two or three stops, gave it an extra bit of intrigue," he said.
"I think it was a bit of a shame with the red flag of course, because if they hadn't changed the tyres, then they would have had to fight to the end as they were all on different strategies, and the tyre wear and life was very different.
"It is such a shame we were not able to see the finale of the strategy game that had been played."
#183
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Not just changing tires, but fixing cars as well.
There are pros and cons to this. Let's suppose Vettel had a 40 second cushion on Alonso and he was about to change tires when Petrov had his accident. So with the red flag, he would have been unfairly penalized. If that were to happen, people would instead be complaining that tire changes should be allowed.
You can't win either way with these rules.
There are pros and cons to this. Let's suppose Vettel had a 40 second cushion on Alonso and he was about to change tires when Petrov had his accident. So with the red flag, he would have been unfairly penalized. If that were to happen, people would instead be complaining that tire changes should be allowed.
You can't win either way with these rules.
#184
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I LOVE IT WHEN THE RACE CARD IS PLAYED
Lewis Hamilton has "made peace" with the Monaco stewards after launching a blistering attack against them in the wake of a penalty-hit race.
Hamilton received two drive-through penalties relating to separate incidents with Ferrari's Felipe Massa and Pastor Maldonado in his Williams.
Immediately after the race, after a visit to the stewards regarding the crash with Maldonado, Hamilton vented his emotions as he said: "It's an absolute frickin' joke.
"I've been to see the stewards five times out of six this season."
Asked as to why he felt the stewards, with British sportscar driver Allan McNish on the four-man panel, were picking on him, Hamilton retorted: "Maybe it's because I'm black."
Lewis Hamilton has "made peace" with the Monaco stewards after launching a blistering attack against them in the wake of a penalty-hit race.
Hamilton received two drive-through penalties relating to separate incidents with Ferrari's Felipe Massa and Pastor Maldonado in his Williams.
Immediately after the race, after a visit to the stewards regarding the crash with Maldonado, Hamilton vented his emotions as he said: "It's an absolute frickin' joke.
"I've been to see the stewards five times out of six this season."
Asked as to why he felt the stewards, with British sportscar driver Allan McNish on the four-man panel, were picking on him, Hamilton retorted: "Maybe it's because I'm black."
#185
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No-don't ban him for the next race bc after Canada he goes to Watkins and I want to see him!I don't wanna see any excuses as to why he can't show at the Glen.
#186
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#188
Senior Moderator
Not just changing tires, but fixing cars as well.
There are pros and cons to this. Let's suppose Vettel had a 40 second cushion on Alonso and he was about to change tires when Petrov had his accident. So with the red flag, he would have been unfairly penalized. If that were to happen, people would instead be complaining that tire changes should be allowed.
You can't win either way with these rules.
There are pros and cons to this. Let's suppose Vettel had a 40 second cushion on Alonso and he was about to change tires when Petrov had his accident. So with the red flag, he would have been unfairly penalized. If that were to happen, people would instead be complaining that tire changes should be allowed.
You can't win either way with these rules.
Last edited by West6MT; 05-30-2011 at 07:44 PM.
#189
Suzuka Master
Hamilton is a moron. He should be banned for the next race for both his stupid moves on the track and his mouth off the track. Seriously, what was he thinking when he tried to make those passes? Even his pass on Schumacher at the beginning of the race was nearly a bookable offense. If Schumacher didn't back off at the last second, that would have been another pile up. Perhaps after that pass, Hamilton felt invincible.
I think against massa yea he should have backed out, but schumacher was just racing
#190
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#191
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Hamilton's had to visit the stewards 5/6 races in 2011-the boy needs an attitude adjustment. He just doesn't know when to race smart and save himself from either crashing himself or someone else out. He is a brilliant passer but needs to quit thinking so highly of his skills in order to finish the race w/o causing any carnage.
#192
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
If Schumacher wanted to, he had the right to follow his racing line. Instead, he backed out to avoid a crash. But if an accident happened, it would have been another penalty to Hamilton.
#193
Hamilton's had to visit the stewards 5/6 races in 2011-the boy needs an attitude adjustment. He just doesn't know when to race smart and save himself from either crashing himself or someone else out. He is a brilliant passer but needs to quit thinking so highly of his skills in order to finish the race w/o causing any carnage.
#194
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Bahrain reinstated, 2011 season to continue indefinitely
The Bahrain Grand Prix will go ahead this year after Formula 1's ruling body, the FIA, voted in favour of reinstating the race on Friday.
The race was scheduled to open the 2011 season in March, but was postponed due to the unrest in the country.
A decision was expected on May 1, but the FIA decided to give Bahrain until today before making a decision on the future of this year's race.
On Friday, the governing body's World Motor Sport Council met in Barcelona to vote, and gave the green light for the Bahrain Grand Prix to take place this year.
The event has been given an October 30 date, which is likely to mean the Indian Grand Prix moves to December 4 or December 11, the latest finish to a season since 1963, although the FIA did not confirm the date for the race.
Indian GP officials said they welcomed the season finale slot.
The season will also comprise a record 20 races.
The FIA said in a statement that the WMSC had "unanimously" agreed to reinstate Bahrain.
"Following a fact-finding mission undertaken at the request of FIA President Jean Todt, FIA Vice President Carlos Gracia visited Bahrain on 31 May 2011 to assess the situation in the country," said the statement.
"Meetings were conducted with the Ministry of Interior, the Ministry of Culture and Tourism, the Bahrain Motor Federation and Bahrain International Circuit, as well as other national and international organisations including Mr. Tariq Al Saffar at the National Institute of Human Rights. It should be noted that the recent announcement by the King of Bahrain has established a political dialogue and reconciliation process.
"After considering all the factors and taking into consideration all stakeholders' concerns, the WMSC unanimously agreed to reinstate the Bahrain Grand Prix in the 2011 FIA Formula One World Championship.
"This decision reflects the spirit of reconciliation in Bahrain, which is evident from the strong support the race receives from the Government and all major parties in Bahrain, including the largest opposition group, all of whom endorse the Formula One Grand Prix and motor sport in the country.
"The WMSC feels that reinstating the Grand Prix is a means of helping to unite people as the country looks to move forward, and also recognises the commitment made by the Formula One teams, their employees and families, and personnel associated with the Championship including the local team of volunteers who are so vital to the event."
The Bahrain International Circuit welcomed the FIA decision.
"This is welcome news for all of Bahrain," said Zayed R. Alzayani, Chairman of the Bahrain International Circuit. "As a country we have faced a difficult time, but stability has returned; with businesses operating close to normal, the State of National Safety lifted and countries removing travel restrictions.
"Collectively, we are in the process of addressing issues of national and international concern, and learning lessons from the recent past. By the time the Grand Prix arrives we will be able to remind the world about Bahrain at its best.
"The Bahrain Grand Prix has always been a source of national pride and it is an event than transcends politics. Not only does it receive strong support from the Government, but also from all major parties in Bahrain, including our largest opposition group, Al Wefaq, who yesterday endorsed both the BIC and motor-racing in Bahrain.
"Importantly, it will also offer a significant boost to the economy. The Grand Prix attracts 100,000 visitors, supports 3,000 jobs and generates around $500m of economic benefit. Its positive effect will be felt throughout the country.
"On behalf of Bahrain, I would like to thank Bernie Ecclestone, Jean Todt and the FIA and the rest of the motorsport community for the support and understanding they have extended to us this year."
Mercedes GP boss Ross Brawn revealed earlier this week that Formula 1 teams had informed Bernie Ecclestone that a December 11 finale was "totally unacceptable".
"I think it is unacceptable and we've told Bernie that and he knows our opinion," said Brawn. "If we continue to take those sort of approaches then we will run into problems because our people cannot be expected to work in that environment and situation, so I think it is totally unacceptable."
Red Bull said in a short statement that the Formula One Teams' Association would discuss the decision internally.
"Red Bull Racing has acknowledged the FIA World Motor Sport Council's decision to go ahead with the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix.
"We will go through the correct channels and discuss this decision within the appropriate forum with the other F1 teams and our fellow FOTA members."
The race was scheduled to open the 2011 season in March, but was postponed due to the unrest in the country.
A decision was expected on May 1, but the FIA decided to give Bahrain until today before making a decision on the future of this year's race.
On Friday, the governing body's World Motor Sport Council met in Barcelona to vote, and gave the green light for the Bahrain Grand Prix to take place this year.
The event has been given an October 30 date, which is likely to mean the Indian Grand Prix moves to December 4 or December 11, the latest finish to a season since 1963, although the FIA did not confirm the date for the race.
Indian GP officials said they welcomed the season finale slot.
The season will also comprise a record 20 races.
The FIA said in a statement that the WMSC had "unanimously" agreed to reinstate Bahrain.
"Following a fact-finding mission undertaken at the request of FIA President Jean Todt, FIA Vice President Carlos Gracia visited Bahrain on 31 May 2011 to assess the situation in the country," said the statement.
"Meetings were conducted with the Ministry of Interior, the Ministry of Culture and Tourism, the Bahrain Motor Federation and Bahrain International Circuit, as well as other national and international organisations including Mr. Tariq Al Saffar at the National Institute of Human Rights. It should be noted that the recent announcement by the King of Bahrain has established a political dialogue and reconciliation process.
"After considering all the factors and taking into consideration all stakeholders' concerns, the WMSC unanimously agreed to reinstate the Bahrain Grand Prix in the 2011 FIA Formula One World Championship.
"This decision reflects the spirit of reconciliation in Bahrain, which is evident from the strong support the race receives from the Government and all major parties in Bahrain, including the largest opposition group, all of whom endorse the Formula One Grand Prix and motor sport in the country.
"The WMSC feels that reinstating the Grand Prix is a means of helping to unite people as the country looks to move forward, and also recognises the commitment made by the Formula One teams, their employees and families, and personnel associated with the Championship including the local team of volunteers who are so vital to the event."
The Bahrain International Circuit welcomed the FIA decision.
"This is welcome news for all of Bahrain," said Zayed R. Alzayani, Chairman of the Bahrain International Circuit. "As a country we have faced a difficult time, but stability has returned; with businesses operating close to normal, the State of National Safety lifted and countries removing travel restrictions.
"Collectively, we are in the process of addressing issues of national and international concern, and learning lessons from the recent past. By the time the Grand Prix arrives we will be able to remind the world about Bahrain at its best.
"The Bahrain Grand Prix has always been a source of national pride and it is an event than transcends politics. Not only does it receive strong support from the Government, but also from all major parties in Bahrain, including our largest opposition group, Al Wefaq, who yesterday endorsed both the BIC and motor-racing in Bahrain.
"Importantly, it will also offer a significant boost to the economy. The Grand Prix attracts 100,000 visitors, supports 3,000 jobs and generates around $500m of economic benefit. Its positive effect will be felt throughout the country.
"On behalf of Bahrain, I would like to thank Bernie Ecclestone, Jean Todt and the FIA and the rest of the motorsport community for the support and understanding they have extended to us this year."
Mercedes GP boss Ross Brawn revealed earlier this week that Formula 1 teams had informed Bernie Ecclestone that a December 11 finale was "totally unacceptable".
"I think it is unacceptable and we've told Bernie that and he knows our opinion," said Brawn. "If we continue to take those sort of approaches then we will run into problems because our people cannot be expected to work in that environment and situation, so I think it is totally unacceptable."
Red Bull said in a short statement that the Formula One Teams' Association would discuss the decision internally.
"Red Bull Racing has acknowledged the FIA World Motor Sport Council's decision to go ahead with the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix.
"We will go through the correct channels and discuss this decision within the appropriate forum with the other F1 teams and our fellow FOTA members."
#195
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Poor team members/factory personnel/race personnel: they're going to be working one helluva long season.
#196
Suzuka Master
Here's a more final statement on the next gen engine for F1
And I'm sorry this is a horrible decision IMO. Not that the 4 cylinder engines are already pushing it, but 12k rpm redline?? I know they will probably still be able to make a lot of power but I'm pretty sure the drivers would want high revving NA engines.
And I'm sorry this is a horrible decision IMO. Not that the 4 cylinder engines are already pushing it, but 12k rpm redline?? I know they will probably still be able to make a lot of power but I'm pretty sure the drivers would want high revving NA engines.
Following a meeting of its World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) in the Spanish city of Barcelona on Friday, the FIA has released details of regulation changes which could come into force for the 2013 season. The sport’s governing body, however, also revealed that a vote could be taken to change the timing of their introduction.
One of the major revisions approved by the WMSC is the establishment of a new engine formula, which will see the current 2.4 litre V8s replaced with 1.6 litre four-cylinder units, with high pressure gasoline injection up to 500 bar and extensive energy management and energy recovery systems. Rev limits on the new engines will be reduced from the current 18,000rpm to a maximum of 12,000.
The aerodynamic regulations for 2013 have been based on the rules used this season, although there are some modifications to improve aero efficiency. The FIA believes that combined with the new powertrain change, the 2013 revisions will deliver a 35 percent reduction in fuel consumption.
Other amendments include a new limit on the height of the tip of car noses to improve safety in T-bone type accidents, a limitation on transmissions (gear ratios, number of gearboxes) in order to decrease costs, and an increase to the overall weight of cars to 660kg. The minimum weight was raised to 640kg this season.
The FIA will now consult with the sport’s main stakeholders and, depending on the outcome of this consultation, may hold a fax vote (by June 30 at the latest) which would permit the implementation date to change.
Related statement from the FIA:
The Technical Regulations for 2013 were approved:
- Power units will be four cylinders, 1.6 litre with high pressure gasoline injection up to 500 bar with a maximum of 12,000 rpm, with extensive energy management and energy recovery systems (now known as ERS), reflecting the decision taken by the WMSC in December 2010
- The aerodynamic regulations have been based on 2011 rules, with modifications in order to improve the aerodynamic efficiency: together with the power train rules, this will enable a 35 percent reduction in fuel consumption
- The height of the tip of the nose will be limited to ensure better compatibility in a T-bone style accident
- A limitation on transmissions (gear ratios, number of gearboxes) in order to decrease costs
- The overall weight of the car must be no less than 660kg
In consultation with the main stakeholders, and following the outcome of this consultation, a fax vote by the WMSC could be considered by 30 June latest to redefine the implementation date of these technical regulations.
One of the major revisions approved by the WMSC is the establishment of a new engine formula, which will see the current 2.4 litre V8s replaced with 1.6 litre four-cylinder units, with high pressure gasoline injection up to 500 bar and extensive energy management and energy recovery systems. Rev limits on the new engines will be reduced from the current 18,000rpm to a maximum of 12,000.
The aerodynamic regulations for 2013 have been based on the rules used this season, although there are some modifications to improve aero efficiency. The FIA believes that combined with the new powertrain change, the 2013 revisions will deliver a 35 percent reduction in fuel consumption.
Other amendments include a new limit on the height of the tip of car noses to improve safety in T-bone type accidents, a limitation on transmissions (gear ratios, number of gearboxes) in order to decrease costs, and an increase to the overall weight of cars to 660kg. The minimum weight was raised to 640kg this season.
The FIA will now consult with the sport’s main stakeholders and, depending on the outcome of this consultation, may hold a fax vote (by June 30 at the latest) which would permit the implementation date to change.
Related statement from the FIA:
The Technical Regulations for 2013 were approved:
- Power units will be four cylinders, 1.6 litre with high pressure gasoline injection up to 500 bar with a maximum of 12,000 rpm, with extensive energy management and energy recovery systems (now known as ERS), reflecting the decision taken by the WMSC in December 2010
- The aerodynamic regulations have been based on 2011 rules, with modifications in order to improve the aerodynamic efficiency: together with the power train rules, this will enable a 35 percent reduction in fuel consumption
- The height of the tip of the nose will be limited to ensure better compatibility in a T-bone style accident
- A limitation on transmissions (gear ratios, number of gearboxes) in order to decrease costs
- The overall weight of the car must be no less than 660kg
In consultation with the main stakeholders, and following the outcome of this consultation, a fax vote by the WMSC could be considered by 30 June latest to redefine the implementation date of these technical regulations.
#197
6G TLX-S
I was hoping that force-induction would be allowed for the 2013 4-cylinders. Otherwise, with 1.6L and only 12K rpm rev limit, the 4-cylinder F1 cars will just be crawling around on the race circuits.
#198
AZ Community Team
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1.) Making motorsports "green" - in the kind of manner applied here - is pointless and just plain stupid.
2.) If cost reduction/containment is one of the intentions of the sport, why do they keep changing the formula so you have to start all over from scratch?
:morans:
2.) If cost reduction/containment is one of the intentions of the sport, why do they keep changing the formula so you have to start all over from scratch?
:morans:
#199
Suzuka Master
i dunno if you read it correctly, but the 4cylinder engines WILL have force-induction
#200
6G TLX-S
I have no problem with turbo-charging the 4-cylinders. Back in the 80's, the race-winning Honda 1.5L-V6 twin-turbo had generated 700-800hp in race trim, and >1000hp in qualify trim, while in-race refueling was also not allowed.